If you don't shadow a DO is it worth applying to DO schools even if you competitive stats?

[mrh125]

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?

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[TreadLightly]

Absolutely. DO schools hate being a backup for MD schools so even if you get an interview with no shadowing (unwritten requirement) you will probably get rejected post interview. So at least try to play the game and fake it if you want in.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?

Just be honest and I'm sure the interviewers will be understanding. Make sure you mention these points specifically in your personal statement.

Absolutely. DO schools hate being a backup for MD schools so even if you get an interview with no shadowing (unwritten requirement) you will probably get rejected post interview. So at least try to play the game and fake it if you want in.

Don't listen to this guy. As you can see his status is still Pre-Med for a reason. My status is accepted because I am much more smarted.

 

[pietachok]

Absolutely. DO schools hate being a backup for MD schools so even if you get an interview with no shadowing (unwritten requirement) you will probably get rejected post interview. So at least try to play the game and fake it if you want in.

completely false about the shadowing. aside from the schools that say they require it, it is not a requirement, unwritten or otherwise. I applied to a lot of DO schools, got interviewed at all but 2, & accepted at all where I interviewed without any DO shadowing (plenty of clinical experience with MDs however). The 2 that rejected me asked about a DO LOR before rejecting me...at the time their websites said it was "strongly encouraged"

 

[kinzav]

I didn't have a DO letter my first cycle. Applied in March and got interviews at all the schools I could apply to (ones that didn't need a DO letter and were still accepting applications). I don't think it hurt to have only an MD letter, I think it hurt that I didn't have a good answer for why DO when I went to the interview. Second cycle, applied in November, got a DO letter in January so I could apply to more DO programs, and felt really comfortable with DO programs which showed in my interviews.

You can definitely get in without one, but it's a learning experience to speak with a DO (or just research DO programs) and realize why it is a good fit for you. An experience that will serve you well in DO interviews, where you will very likely speak with a DO wondering why you would choose this path.

 

[bionerd89]

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?

I never shadowed a DO and only had a MD LOR. I think the problem is that they will most likely ask you "Why DO?" so I would suggest you start thinking of a good answer. BTW, at all my interviews, they asked "Why DO?" or "Why Osteopathic Medicine?" ..never "Why Osteopathy?" because its one of those words that some people shy away from

 

[CSqueed]

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?

Tell them you LOVE "Ah-stee-oh-pathhh-ee".

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I never shadowed a DO and only had a MD LOR. I think the problem is that they will most likely ask you "Why DO?" so I would suggest you start thinking of a good answer. BTW, at all my interviews, they asked "Why DO?" or "Why Osteopathic Medicine?" ..never "Why Osteopathy?" because its one of those words that some people shy away from

"The scope of practice of osteopathic practitioners varies by country. In general, osteopaths trained outside of the U.S. are not physicians, and are limited in practice to non-invasive manual therapies,[4] and may provide nutritional, postural, and other health advice. Conversely, the U.S. trains osteopathic physicians who practice the entire scope of modern medicine. To avoid confusion, the American Osteopathic Association recommends using the terms osteopathic physician (U.S.-trained only) and osteopathic medicine to distinguish individuals trained in osteopathic medicine in the United States from osteopaths trained in osteopathy, the restricted-scope form of practice outside of North America." - Wikipedia

 

[bionerd89]

"The scope of practice of osteopathic practitioners varies by country. In general, osteopaths trained outside of the U.S. are not physicians, and are limited in practice to non-invasive manual therapies,[4] and may provide nutritional, postural, and other health advice. Conversely, the U.S. trains osteopathic physicians who practice the entire scope of modern medicine. To avoid confusion, the American Osteopathic Association recommends using the terms osteopathic physician (U.S.-trained only) and osteopathic medicine to distinguish individuals trained in osteopathic medicine in the United States from osteopaths trained in osteopathy, the restricted-scope form of practice outside of North America." - Wikipedia

Its interesting that the only time I've heard the word Osteopath in real life was actually from these two DOs that both owned private OMM clinics. Both of them were super into OMM and told me which DO schools not to go to just because their OMM education wasn't up to par (obviously I didn't listen). I think it just shows how different people's mindsets are within the DO community. I personally dislike that word and I prefer osteopathic physician.

 

[Paul Darlington]

A requirement is a requirement. Imho, as long as they state that they need it, you have to comply to it a kiss yourself a goodbye even if you are Einstein

 

[pattr]

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?

There's a list floating around SDN giving each school and whether or not they require a DO letter.

As far as I know, none of them require having shadowed a DO though obviously it helps your case. I applied and was accepted (now a fourth year at Touro-CA) without having shadowed a DO and without a DO letter.

Good luck.

 

[GypsyHummus]

With a high MCAT score, the world is yours.

 

[DrEnderW]

I got either offers or interview invites (which I declined) at 100% of the DO schools I applied to without shadowing a DO.

Have a solid "why DO?" answer. If you can't think of a reason why preventative medicine, primary care, or creating a strong physician-patient relationship is important in medicine in general you have a problem. It's incredibly easy to relate these answers to current medical topics and link them to your experiences. You do not have to say you're a level 65 OMM Wizard Paladin to have a strong answer.

 

[Maeby Funke]

I never shadowed a DO and got IIs at DMU, CCOM, Western-NW, NSU-COM, and Touro-CA.

 

[Silent Cool]

I never shadowed a DO (but I did have a letter from an MD), and I was accepted at two DO schools AND I applied late.

 

[pietachok]

A requirement is a requirement. Imho, as long as they state that they need it, you have to comply to it a kiss yourself a goodbye even if you are Einstein

? I don't think the OP was asking about applying without it to schools where it is a requirement. A substantial number of DO schools do not require one.

 

[GUH]

With a high MCAT score, the world is yours.

This, very much this.
No DO letter here but got love from a whooooole bunch of DO schools, almost certainly due to the MCAT.

 

[lmcdavidkim]

Is it too late to find a DO to shadow? I think you still have time. It's only April... Find someone now. here's a start http://www.osteopathic.org/Pages/default.aspx
When I shadowed, the DOs already knew that I was shadowing due to the school requirement and was pretty understanding. He also assumed that I needed a letter and wrote one after a month shadowing once per week.

 

[Goro]

This will put you at a disadvantage if at interviews all you can come up with is "I couldn't get into an MD school".

You wanna be a doctor? Then do your homework, especially if you live in an area where DOs are common, or there's a DO school within driving distance. I've rejected people who did what was merely convenient in the app process to our school.

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

 

[orangeman25]

This, very much this.
No DO letter here but got love from a whooooole bunch of DO schools, almost certainly due to the MCAT.

Can we get a hint at the MCAT range? 30-33?

 

[GUH]

Can we get a hint at the MCAT range? 30-33?

Yes.

 

[ChEMD]

I'm having a hard time understanding the whole "why DO" thing. I understand the question "why medicine" or "why do you want to be a doctor", but not "why DO". It seems like people will fight to the death to say that DO's and MD's are equal, but yet DO schools feel the need to differentiate themselves by asking "why DO". So which is it? Are DO and MD physicians the same or are DO's different? At an interview for an MD school, you'll never hear anyone ask you "why MD". Can anyone shed any light on this? Is it mainly a pride thing because DO schools don't want people to attend just because they didn't get into an MD school? I'm not at all trying to bash DO's, because in my mind both MD's and DO's are equal as physicians, but it seems to me like DO's (or maybe just the DO schools) need to decide if they want to be synonymous with MD's as physicians or if they want to differentiate themselves and take whatever negative or positive connotations that come with that.

 

[hallowmann]

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?

Does it put you at a disadvantage, yes. Is it still worth applying, yes. As many have pointed out, while many schools require/strongly recommend a DO LOR, about half don't (keep in mind though that many/most of those do require an LOR from a physician, MD or DO).

That said, you really need to look into it a bit more. You should be able to have a good answer to the "Why Osteopathic Medicine" question. If you don't, do you even know enough about the profession to be applying or explain why you want to attend a DO school in your secondaries or interviews?

Put some effort in. Honestly, one of the easiest things to do would be to shadow a DO in a field of medicine you're interested in, so why wouldn't you take it as an opportunity to learn more about a profession you might be a part of for the rest of your life.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The not shadowing a DO is okay. I understand that you figure Physician = MD or DO and don't see a specialness to osteopathic medicine. I can understand all that, but what I can't see acceptable is that you don't do your homework on Osteopathic History and Philosophy and find something compelling that you like about it. It simply comes off as a disinterested applicant.

 

[kinzav]

I'm having a hard time understanding the whole "why DO" thing. I understand the question "why medicine" or "why do you want to be a doctor", but not "why DO". It seems like people will fight to the death to say that DO's and MD's are equal, but yet DO schools feel the need to differentiate themselves by asking "why DO". So which is it? Are DO and MD physicians the same or are DO's different? At an interview for an MD school, you'll never hear anyone ask you "why MD". Can anyone shed any light on this? Is it mainly a pride thing because DO schools don't want people to attend just because they didn't get into an MD school? I'm not at all trying to bash DO's, because in my mind both MD's and DO's are equal as physicians, but it seems to me like DO's (or maybe just the DO schools) need to decide if they want to be synonymous with MD's as physicians or if they want to differentiate themselves and take whatever negative or positive connotations that come with that.

I'd say it has to do with the motives behind the programs more than anything else. DO schools are looking at high patient yield specialties (particularly primary care) most of the time, with an eye towards serving underserved communities. This is why you see required rotations in rural communities for a lot of DO programs. This is why family medicine is such a popular choice on match lists. MD schools seem to put more value on pulling in research heavy applicants hoping to go into prestigious specialties and residencies, because it IS cutthroat in the medical field, and having great applicants can lead to great physicians which can lead to great donations/potential professors/new facilities/more new great applicants etc.etc.

But the line between the two is small, and getting smaller. Which is why I think it should have little to do with your decision. Just as an aside, I've had much better experiences with students at DO interviews. They sometimes seem more mature (more nontrads?), less on edge(feel less stress because the specialty they choose isn't as competitive?), friendlier (the specialties are more conducive to friendly people?), I dunno. But the downside is you're not doing rotations at the #1 sites in the US (and you will most likely have to travel for DO rotations), you're professors are probably not on the cutting edge of medical research (though you can expect them to be more teaching-centric, which could be a positive for some), and your patients will not be as familiar with your degree as they would with say a Havard MD (which shouldn't affect the way you practice). Didn't mean to ramble, but thought it was a good question that I've thought about a bit the past year.

 

[withoutlyrics]

You still have time. I shadowed in July and got a rec in August (and have 2 DO acceptances). I did not apply to DO schools before that because of all the reasons you state. I wish I had done the legwork the previous cycle. Just do it to have options if your stats are borderline. Better do that than to sit out a year. Good luck.


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[Chillywilly]

I never shadowed a DO and only had a MD LOR. I think the problem is that they will most likely ask you "Why DO?" so I would suggest you start thinking of a good answer. BTW, at all my interviews, they asked "Why DO?" or "Why Osteopathic Medicine?" ..never "Why Osteopathy?" because its one of those words that some people shy away from

Interesting, I was never asked "why doctor" or "why DO" in any of my interviews . Weird. But I did have someone ask what specialty.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I never shadowed a DO and got IIs at DMU, CCOM, Western-NW, NSU-COM, and Touro-CA.

FWIW... I have a friend who in OMS-4 at Nova and he told me that Nova does not seem to be too much into the whole DO philosophy thing...
It is a great DO school... Their rotation sites can match up any mid tier MD school. My friend even told me that he has a feeling that if Nova can get to build that hospital they are trying to build in campus, they 'might' change their program to MD. It would be interesting to see how that would work....

 

[user3]

FWIW... I have a friend who in OMS-4 at Nova and he told me that Nova does not seem to be too much into the whole DO philosophy thing...
It is a great DO school... Their rotation sites can match up any mid tier MD school. My friend even told me that he has a feeling that if Nova can get to build that hospital they are trying to build in campus, they 'might' change their program to MD. It would be interesting to see how that would work....

Their admissions department could use a major overhaul. Apparently they are horribly disorganized this year.

 

[GUH]

I'm having a hard time understanding the whole "why DO" thing. I understand the question "why medicine" or "why do you want to be a doctor", but not "why DO". It seems like people will fight to the death to say that DO's and MD's are equal, but yet DO schools feel the need to differentiate themselves by asking "why DO". So which is it? Are DO and MD physicians the same or are DO's different? At an interview for an MD school, you'll never hear anyone ask you "why MD". Can anyone shed any light on this? Is it mainly a pride thing because DO schools don't want people to attend just because they didn't get into an MD school? I'm not at all trying to bash DO's, because in my mind both MD's and DO's are equal as physicians, but it seems to me like DO's (or maybe just the DO schools) need to decide if they want to be synonymous with MD's as physicians or if they want to differentiate themselves and take whatever negative or positive connotations that come with that.

A lot of folks come to DO school because they actually wanted to be MD's and then turn around, regret their decision and bash the osteopathic profession (you can see a lot of these on SDN). Schools consider it a positive when you have demonstrated a clear interest in osteopathic training.
DO training is slightly different from MD training but of generally equal intensity and duration, resulting in equivalent licensure.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

A lot of folks come to DO school because they actually wanted to be MD's and then turn around, regret their decision and bash the osteopathic profession (you can see a lot of these on SDN). Schools consider it a positive when you have demonstrated a clear interest in osteopathic training.
DO training is slightly different from MD training but of generally equal intensity and duration, resulting in equivalent licensure.

I am a strong supporter of osteopathic medicine, but there are some criticisms that do need consideration. 1) OMM has a lot of dubious stuff like cranial and Chapman points. Reform those parts of the curriculum while emphasizing OMM techniques with evidence. 2) we have to get rid of the COMLEX. If we continue taking a special test, all we're saying is we aren't as competent as physicians. We already use the mcat. It is time we move to the USMLE.

 

[coolingglasses]

Their admissions department could use a major overhaul. Apparently they are horribly disorganized this year.

I think it was like that the year before, too.

 

[Silent Cool]

I haven't shadowed a DO doctor and I honestly don't have any compelling reasons about "why Osteopathy". Does that put me at a disadvantage when applying? I have a mild preference for MD schools because of residency opportunities, but really I'd just be happy to get into a med school. Thoughts?

Sorry, I changed my mind and experience.

Unless you have a family member who is related to AT Still *AND* you have a DO letter, well.....sorry, bub--it ain't happenin'. Better start fillin' out the _______ applications.

good luck.

Let us know how you are enjoying _____ school.

good luck.

If you decide to re-take the MCAT and *ALL* of your pre-reqs, a DO school might take you. If that becomes the case, tell us how you end up enjoying _____ DO school.

good luck.

No, seriously. But seriously.

good luck.



(you're going to need it).






good luck.