If you don't want to be a clinician..

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If you don't want to be a clinician,

  • Finish intern year

    Votes: 17 26.6%
  • Finish residency

    Votes: 33 51.6%
  • Don't do either

    Votes: 14 21.9%

  • Total voters
    64

Dr34566

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If you don't want to be a clinician, does it make sense to complete a residency? How do you manage the debt of medical school if you don't complete a residency?

I like knowing about diseases, and how to diagnose and treat them.
I don't like the sacrifices and one-sided contracts of residency.
I like having technical skills to be able to handle a code or an emergency situation.
I don't like floor work or call.
I haven't met any resident or attending that I would define as "truly happy" with their job.
I like the theory of medicine.
I don't like the limited creativity and routine of being a doctor.

Is there a residency that is right for me?

I could envision myself serving as an expert consultant in a disease (which ironically I can only be if I finish residency) or a medical journalist. Selling drugs or being a hired gun doesn't really appeal to me. I would love to be the inventor of the next big medical device.

Is it dumb to complete a residency if you don't plan to practice? What options do you have with a residency vs. without?

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I think you need to come up with what you want to do. If you are doing a residency just to spin your wheels for a few years in hopes that it will give you something else to do, you're probably going to be extremely miserable.

I have met plenty of MDs who are happy with their job, and made the right choice with their career.

I would say pathology fits best from what you say, but as a pathologist I don't think I would enjoy having a colleague who only likes medicine in theory, and only really likes things that require a short attention span like procedures.

It is probably silly to do a residency without any plans to practice (unless you are doing primarily research in which case residency can be an option in many cases). But it's also probably silly to go to med school if you don't plan to practice and you don't have any other alternative plans.
 
I would love to be the inventor of the next big medical device.

if you have an engineering background, this is a decent idea. however the problem is that necessity is the mother of invention. how can you know what device is needed if you don't know what's needed? and you can't know what's needed unless you're out there practicing and realize that, "hey, i could do procedure X more efficiently if i had device Y, which doesn't exist... so lemme go invent it and help society and make mega-bank at the same time". great in theory, but probably tough without the expertise that can only be gained through at least a residency.
 
If you don't want to be a clinician, does it make sense to complete a residency? How do you manage the debt of medical school if you don't complete a residency?

I like knowing about diseases, and how to diagnose and treat them.
I don't like the sacrifices and one-sided contracts of residency.
I like having technical skills to be able to handle a code or an emergency situation.
I don't like floor work or call.
I haven't met any resident or attending that I would define as "truly happy" with their job.
I like the theory of medicine.
I don't like the limited creativity and routine of being a doctor.

Is there a residency that is right for me?

I could envision myself serving as an expert consultant in a disease (which ironically I can only be if I finish residency) or a medical journalist. Selling drugs or being a hired gun doesn't really appeal to me. I would love to be the inventor of the next big medical device.

Is it dumb to complete a residency if you don't plan to practice? What options do you have with a residency vs. without?

Nobody likes floor work, nor have I met anyone who likes taking call. The problem is that these are things that it takes to get to be where you want to be. No one can be a subspecialist, in any field, without working through the more general stuff to get there.

Frankly, it does sound like you want to be a doctor, at least in theory, but don't want to do what it takes to get there. You have to make a desicion. An MD without any clinical experiance isn't going to be all that useful. Without having established a name for yourself or having "something" extra to offer, most non-patient care establishments won't see you having sufficent credentials. You may be able to do bench work, but without the ability to get a medical license and credentialling, you'll have a hard time running anything clinical.

You might be able to teach, either in high school or college, but, with any sort of loan burdern, that may be prohibitive.

I can tell you that there are lots of happy residents and attendings. Some of us love our jobs. You may just need to branch out and see a few different specialties AT DIFFERENT HOSPITALS. See how things are done elsewhere. You may be amazed at the difference.
 
yaah, I think residency would probably allow me to do things I have an interest in--eg being an expert in a certain therapeutic area, clinical or translational research, or inventing--see mlw03's response. The question then is if it is worth the sacrifice of residency to do that. I don't have a plan per se though, I just cannot see myself being happy solely practicing. Why did you think pathology might be a good fit? I never said I can only do procedures.

mlw03, excellent point and one I know all too well. Is it stupid to do a residency only because I would want to invent something?

BADMD, good points. I don't mind working through general stuff, in fact I think it's a shame that everyone has to specialize and say goodbye to their more broad training. What I do mind is the whole system of residency: being an indentured servant. It shouldn't have to be like that, and it doesn't have to be like that.
What did you mean by "non-patient care establishments"?

Both of you have said there are happy residents/attendings, but I really have not seen it, and again my definition of "happy" may be different than yours. First of all, I can't stand the bickering between departments. Every doctor is always ragging on every other kind of doctor for something. In fact, doctors can't even unite to fight oppressive healthcare reimbursement and litigation, even though deep down they know they are affected by it. Of course maybe you can't blame the residents, they don't make any money so why should they care. Doctors also seem to hate it when new patients show up because gasp! that means they have to do more work. Didn't you all become doctors because you wanted to see patients? Ironically the only exception is the private attending, who loves it when new patients come in because he has a throng of residents of which he can overbill on top of. But otherwise people literally countdown to when their shift ends or when signout comes. How can you live like that, day in and day out? That's not the only part of the race. People count down their residency years, med school years, even as early as high school sometimes. Only x more years til I become a doctor! (and by doctor I do not mean a resident, I mean one that makes money) I'm sure attendings say "only x more years til I make partner!" It is almost like people are putting their life on hold, and enjoy doing so.

In fact, the only ones who seem to really like being a doctor are the old school docs, and when you think about it it kind of makes sense. First of all they all had a sense of vocation so they are all ready to live, sleep, and breathe doctoring. Their expectations for "having a life" (in our sense of the word) was nil, their "having a life" was living at the hospital. They were happy about waking up and bored to go home. Secondly they were not always as specialized, and thus not as divided and thus had more camraderie. Being a doctor was an even bigger frathouse back then than it is now, just consisting of one huge fraternity. They also had a lot more responsibility back then, so they felt like they were needed and doing something and thus learning from the get-go. Even med students back then had responsibilities. The whole thing was very trial by fire. Somewhere along the way, the push and pull of health care costs, the specialization of medicine, the unionization of the AMA, made it go to hell. Why else, in a time where we need more doctors and more nurses, do we artificially restrict how many students enter medical school and how many doctors are trained?
 
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What I do mind is the whole system of residency: being an indentured servant. It shouldn't have to be like that, and it doesn't have to be like that.
What did you mean by "non-patient care establishments"?

Residency is a learning experience. Part of it is what you make of it. Yes, the hours are bad. But then again, so are the hours of a beginning law associate or a managment consultant or at a start up.

I was an intern the same year a friend of mine finished law school. He worked more hours at his law firm than I did at the hospital...and he barely reached his mandatory billable hours for the year. He got paid about twice as much as I did...and he got a weekly reminder telling him how far behind he was on his targets and threatening to fire him if he didn't hit his targets by years end. And this can last more than 3 or 5 years. Another of my college friends worked for a consulting firm after getting her MBA. She left home every Sunday night and didn't get back until Thursday night...every week...for 2 years...save 2 weeks of vacation for those 2 years. She had to quit when her husband basically threatened divorce. Those are far worse hours than residency. Many industries have the same problem before one can hit the really high paying jobs.

As for non-patient care companies, I'm talking biotech, consulting, etc. While there are firms that will hire you, you'll not likely being doing much related to medicine. Sure you know some medicine, but without any real clinical knowledge, you'll have a hard time evaluating clinical scenarios.

I actually enjoyed much of my intern year, despite the hours. Some months were worse than others, but on the whole I liked it.
I'll admit I have a somewhat different residency experience than others. Being EM, I'm even more hours limited, when in the ED, and our program deliberately tries to keep us several hours below the maximum. Due to the nature of the schedule, during my second year I spent most mornings at home with our infant and then did a hand off in the afternoon with my wife. So I spent a heck of a lot of time with my child during his first year. There is no 9-5 job that would have allowed that.

So, I think you'll find that many other career paths have similar "indentured servitude" and no work hours limitations. While the pay might be better, there is more pressure to perform and less personal development. Depending on what you want out of medicine, the training only lasts 3-7 years. By the end, you are the one making decisions and have significant responsibilities. So I'll say it again...get a broad exposure to different specialties and different environments. Try to get an away rotation in a different state, just to see how other people do the same thing. You'll likely find a totally different culture.
 
BADMD, you continue to have valuable insights.

Yes, you have to work hard to succeed in anything, I agree. I believe all your anecdotes about your friends. However, some are typical, some more atypical. Your lawyer friend story is probably the one that makes the most sense, and is most "average", although even within the realm of the beginning associate, several are actually not working that hard, some are actually quite manageable, even though they may be doing very scut-like work. Some beginning asssociates are also much more efficient than others. Basically there are a lot of law graduates not very well suited for work in a high-powered law firm, even of elite law graduates--contrast this to doctors, the average US-trained allopathic physician can do well in residency more often than the average law grad can succeed in a big firm.
Your MBA story is very anecdotal. Not every MBA does consulting, and not every consultant is gone 5 of 7 days. Simply put, being a consultant travelling with expenses paid 5/7 days is merely an option, even a choice. Being a resident and taking at the very least q4 call, even q2 call is a near-necessity and an obligation for a MD. Are the hours of these worse than intern/residency? Law, maybe. But like you said, they are making twice as much, and I guarantee you they are not working twice as much. The consultant away from home, well unless you consider billing a hotel dinner to the corporate card equivalent to the downtime you have from 3am-5am to snooze in the lounge on call, no they are not. At a startup you MAY work more hours than an intern or resident, but you have a huge stake in the time you put in... if you strike gold, you will hit payday--you are your own boss at a startup, even if that means having no income the first year or 4.

I think as an MD you do have some knowledge to evaluate certain clinical scenarios. Surely not as much as if you had completed a residency. I would love to utilize my medical training in my future career, but I won't cry if I don't. More important to me is general life and job satisfaction. I find that medicine is more often than not very stifling for creativity. If you aren't practicing according to the most recent guidelines and literature, than you are probably a bad doctor. Making up your own non-tested regimen is not really smiled upon, and rightfully so. Now, there is a lot more room for creativity if you research what treatments are better, but you are talking "zebras" aka the very slim minority of doctors.

Do you think EM is a specialty I should be considering?

I absolutely agree that other professions have indentured servitude as well. But the big difference is that in other professions you are really not "forced" to enter indentured servitude, in so much as there is not a regulatory body dictating that you need x amount of time and y amount of procedures before they will start paying you. I also would not necessarily agree that there is more pressure to perform and less personal development. I'm not sure what personal development you think there is in residency. A telling statement is your phrase "the training only lasts 3-7 years." By any measure of time, this is a significant part of your life, and in any other profession, this is an eternity. I agree that you are making decisions and having responsibility by the end, but in some other fields you are making decisions and have responsibility right away. That said, I will try to see different rotations in different hospitals. You may be on to something there.
 
Do you think EM is a specialty I should be considering?

I think EM is the greatest specialty ever. I'm suprised when people choose something other than EM. It's the right specialty for me.

It is relatively procedure heavy, with a lot of diagnostics and cerebral aspects. EPs are a experts at running codes and in the immediate management of critical patients. There is set schedule, without call, however EPs do work odd hours and one can't only work days. Other specialties both love you and hate you at the same time. There is also huge amount of research potential.

If I weren't doing EM, the only other specialty I could see myself in would be trauma/critical care and while I like surgery, the attention span required in the OR isn't me.

Of course, I'm atypical. I'm doing a Fellowship once I complete residency. I have two more years of being subserviant and I won't get any real change in my paycheck once I'm done. Part of why I'm doing it is for interest, but also so that I have the proper credentials to do what I want.
 
I think EM is the greatest specialty ever. I'm suprised when people choose something other than EM. It's the right specialty for me.

It is relatively procedure heavy, with a lot of diagnostics and cerebral aspects. EPs are a experts at running codes and in the immediate management of critical patients. There is set schedule, without call, however EPs do work odd hours and one can't only work days. Other specialties both love you and hate you at the same time. There is also huge amount of research potential.

If I weren't doing EM, the only other specialty I could see myself in would be trauma/critical care and while I like surgery, the attention span required in the OR isn't me.

Of course, I'm atypical. I'm doing a Fellowship once I complete residency. I have two more years of being subserviant and I won't get any real change in my paycheck once I'm done. Part of why I'm doing it is for interest, but also so that I have the proper credentials to do what I want.

"proper credentials to do what i want." care to elaborate on this at all?
 
"proper credentials to do what i want." care to elaborate on this at all?

I want to work in academics and being fellowshiped trained gives me a leg up on those who are not. I also love Tox and want to do consults. When/if critical care is made available to EPs, I may actually consider a second fellowship. But I'm crazy like that.
 
I absolutely agree that other professions have indentured servitude as well. But the big difference is that in other professions you are really not "forced" to enter indentured servitude, in so much as there is not a regulatory body dictating that you need x amount of time and y amount of procedures before they will start paying you.

If you choose not to enter indentured servitude, you won't have a prestigious, high-paying job. Sure, you can find MBA jobs with good hours and low stress, but you won't make six figures, and the jobs tend to be really boring.

I agree that you are making decisions and having responsibility by the end, but in some other fields you are making decisions and have responsibility right away. That said, I will try to see different rotations in different hospitals. You may be on to something there.

Lawyers and consultants don't get responsibility any faster than residents. The high paying jobs involve deals with a lot of money at stake. A fresh MBA doesn't make these decisions.
 
If you choose not to enter indentured servitude, you won't have a prestigious, high-paying job. Sure, you can find MBA jobs with good hours and low stress, but you won't make six figures, and the jobs tend to be really boring.



Lawyers and consultants don't get responsibility any faster than residents. The high paying jobs involve deals with a lot of money at stake. A fresh MBA doesn't make these decisions.


There are a lot of jobs out there that noone knows about. They're not necessarily the most exciting jobs, but in terms of stress and money you would be surprised. Some are even kind of exciting.

Beginning lawyers at a firm probably have less responsibility than residents, they just get paid a hell of a lot more. But you can also distinguish yourself from others more quickly (depending on how good you are/how hard you work/how much ass you kiss). Also, there are more settings in practicing law--public defender, municipal court, DA, etc. A decent % of law graduates don't even practice law.

Consultants have varying degrees of responsibility, but again distinction can be attained faster. Also, not to mention you get paid a hell of a lot more than a resident. The high paying jobs do have a lot of money at stake, and not surprisingly the person working the deal, even the fresh MBA grad, will see some cut of this. A MBA isn't restricted to sales or consulting however. A resident is restricted to indentured servitude.
 
I want to work in academics and being fellowshiped trained gives me a leg up on those who are not. I also love Tox and want to do consults. When/if critical care is made available to EPs, I may actually consider a second fellowship. But I'm crazy like that.

I want to work in academics and being fellowshiped trained gives me a leg up on those who are not. I also love Tox and want to do consults. When/if critical care is made available to EPs, I may actually consider a second fellowship. But I'm crazy like that.

EM is probably one of the more benign residencies. One thing you didn't mention is gatekeeping and the regulars. These are both negative factors for me. I hate being a 24/7 outpatient clinic for the people who wait until their health deteriorates so much it becomes an emergency or who refuse to make appointments with their regular doctor. I also hate the regulars who are there for a place to sleep or drugs.
Shift work is both a blessing and a curse, the counting down to finishing your shift is even more exaggerated in EM, spending your time hoping you don't have to work someone up your last 15 minutes. Not to mention odd hours which presumably will be hard to keep up forever. How long do EM docs practice and what do they do when they stop? I don't think I've ever seen an old EM doc.

You only have 2 more years of being subservient, is that why you're considering another fellowship? If you had to do it all over again, would you?
 
One thing you didn't mention is gatekeeping and the regulars. <snip> I also hate the regulars who are there for a place to sleep or drugs.

I think you have developed a very jaded view of medicine. Sure, we get the regulars, but there is a heck of lot more. Hell, I can actually say that at least once a week I truly save someone's life. I can certainly put up with a few drunks for that.

How long do EM docs practice and what do they do when they stop? I don't think I've ever seen an old EM doc.

I know quite a few. Many have moved into administration predominant postions, but still do shifts. Plus, EM is a fairly new specialty. There aren't that many "old" EM docs, compared to, say, old IM docs.

You only have 2 more years of being subservient, is that why you're considering another fellowship? If you had to do it all over again, would you?

Residency has been a great time and a fantastic learning experience. I'll tell you if I'd do a second Fellowship after I finish the first one. I'd do a second Fellowship so that I could fully realize what I want to do in medicine.
 
I think it might be worthwhile for you to look into radiation oncology. It is a field with great innovation, expertise in cancer treatment, minimal floor time, good hours, superb renumeration, and constantly evolving new therapies. You are basically an "expert consultant" in this field.
 
There are a lot of jobs out there that noone knows about. They're not necessarily the most exciting jobs, but in terms of stress and money you would be surprised. Some are even kind of exciting.

Then surprise me and provide a few specific examples
 
I think it might be worthwhile for you to look into radiation oncology. It is a field with great innovation, expertise in cancer treatment, minimal floor time, good hours, superb renumeration, and constantly evolving new therapies. You are basically an "expert consultant" in this field.

How much creativity is there in radiation oncology, or any field of medicine for that matter, while practicing?

Then surprise me and provide a few specific examples

These will largely be jobs you've never heard of, with functions you won't understand. I hadn't heard of them or understood them even when I did. There are plenty of inane deals in certain industries though where it is mind-blowing that there is actually being that much money tossed around for what appears to be little or no reason at all.

As far as more conventional jobs, think about some other professionals--pharmacists and dentists for one. They are good for comparison to doctors in terms of similar schooling, yet they have very little of the disadvantages of postgraduate training, lifestyle, etc.
 
Dude, 34566, it sounds like you have your mind made up. Every idea that has been tossed out here, you shoot down. So save yourself the grief of 3+ years of being miserable doing a residency (there are no "perfect" specialties, which is what it sounds like you are looking for), and try your hand at finding one of these jobs where they will be so impressed with the two letters that follow your name and will pay you 200K+ to sit in your office for, oh, 7 or 8 hours a day (Mon-Thurs), brainstorming and bouncing ideas off your colleagues, and working on your handicap.
 
Dude, 34566, it sounds like you have your mind made up. Every idea that has been tossed out here, you shoot down. So save yourself the grief of 3+ years of being miserable doing a residency (there are no "perfect" specialties, which is what it sounds like you are looking for), and try your hand at finding one of these jobs where they will be so impressed with the two letters that follow your name and will pay you 200K+ to sit in your office for, oh, 7 or 8 hours a day (Mon-Thurs), brainstorming and bouncing ideas off your colleagues, and working on your handicap.

To the OP...Your profile says that you are pre-med. Before you even think about medical school, you have to really be 100% dedicated and excited to put in the commitment that medicine requires. There is no shame in doing something else, but choosing medicine when you are not committed enough to get through the tough times (and there are a lot of tough times) is a recipe for misery.

There are many happy physicians out there, in every specialty. There are plenty of miserable people in every specialty. If you choose medicine, there is no reason to pick a specialty this early. However, when I rotated through third year, there was something exciting about all of my experiences, and one that stood out far above the others.

I agree with oldtown; it really sounds like you want to do something else. Good luck discovering your interests and career. :luck:
 
As far as more conventional jobs, think about some other professionals--pharmacists and dentists for one.

I think it has become abundantly clear that you don't want to be a doctor. So don't. It isn't for you. Bail out now.

However, I think you'll find that the criticisms you have of medicine extend to many other jobs too. Next time you go to CVS, ask the pharmacist how happy s/he is. I've been amazed at the number of retail Pharm.Ds who are getting huge paychecks, are forced to work 60 plus hours per week, and hate their jobs with a passion but are stuck. And the only creativity you get there is what angle to label goes on the bottle.
 
I commend the OP on using some critical thinking, and a healthy dose of skepsis in his/her decision making. Perhaps many ppl who are on these boards did the same, they could have been a lot happier now. I can't say that I'm in the same boat as an OP, b/c I'm probably significantly older, hold two professional licenses (R.N and L.Ac (acupuncture), and I have been in the healthcare field in different roles for the past 20 years. So if I said I'm going into medicine "to help ppl" it is true, but that's what I've been doing for a while....a long while now. I've worked in many of the non-clinical capacities as well, or those that don't require direct patient's contact, but still require the professional degree and a license to practice that profession. I'm on my way to becoming a physician now, but sometimes I really question my desire for this path, as well as a commitment on my part. Yeah, I'm married, got a kid, and have some chronic health issues that go south under the stress and all the running around. While those are the valid reasons to say heck with it...it's not the only reason why I question myself. It seems to be a lack of creativity in many medical fields. The only time I get excited is when I hear some medical radio-personality do a show, and talk about the therapies and modalities that would be hard to incorporate in average Joe Blow's medical practice. The insurance will not pay for it, and charging ppl upfront, and give them a super bill for the reimbursement from their ins carrier is a tough sell in real life. BUt it seems that I want more recognition, looking for it in those two letters that follow your name. BTW, I'm not trying to steal this thread from the OP, and I really understand why creativity, and keeping things interesting is a big deal to him/her. Just wondering...what about psych? Would this be in the realm of intellectually stimulating work? I guess it could be, but just like everything else depends on your practice set up. If you want more money...do as "they" tell you to, if creativity...well be prepaired to suffer financially for it.
Good Luck
 
Dude, 34566, it sounds like you have your mind made up. Every idea that has been tossed out here, you shoot down. So save yourself the grief of 3+ years of being miserable doing a residency (there are no "perfect" specialties, which is what it sounds like you are looking for), and try your hand at finding one of these jobs where they will be so impressed with the two letters that follow your name and will pay you 200K+ to sit in your office for, oh, 7 or 8 hours a day (Mon-Thurs), brainstorming and bouncing ideas off your colleagues, and working on your handicap.

If I had my mind made up, it would make things a lot easier. I don't mind sitting in an office, but I need to have that feeling of satisfaction in what I'm doing. What I don't get, does everyone really feel satisfied when they wake up at 530 to discharge a guy? Are you all just brainwashed or lying to yourselves?

To the OP...Your profile says that you are pre-med. Before you even think about medical school, you have to really be 100% dedicated and excited to put in the commitment that medicine requires. There is no shame in doing something else, but choosing medicine when you are not committed enough to get through the tough times (and there are a lot of tough times) is a recipe for misery.

There are many happy physicians out there, in every specialty. There are plenty of miserable people in every specialty. If you choose medicine, there is no reason to pick a specialty this early. However, when I rotated through third year, there was something exciting about all of my experiences, and one that stood out far above the others.

I agree with oldtown; it really sounds like you want to do something else. Good luck discovering your interests and career. :luck:

Absolutely agree with this. For any premeds reading, do your homework before you dive in. And be skeptical of any physician who says they are happy, sometimes if you believe a lie long enough it becomes truth. If they told the real truth, that would invalidate their whole world.

I think it has become abundantly clear that you don't want to be a doctor. So don't. It isn't for you. Bail out now.

However, I think you'll find that the criticisms you have of medicine extend to many other jobs too. Next time you go to CVS, ask the pharmacist how happy s/he is. I've been amazed at the number of retail Pharm.Ds who are getting huge paychecks, are forced to work 60 plus hours per week, and hate their jobs with a passion but are stuck. And the only creativity you get there is what angle to label goes on the bottle.

I've heard a lot like this, but is medicine really ANY different? After your 3000th lap chole, aren't you a mindless drone? Titrating someone's hydrochlorothiazide? 60 hours is living the dream compared to that of a doctor. And they get paid time and a half. And these are just the retail guys we're talking about.


billydoc, are you close at all to quitting? You answered your own question about psych. In theory psych is an extremely interesting specialties. In practice.. well it's not like it is in theory. Not at all.
 
I'll add a couple more points here. Yes, every job has its ups and downs, and you have to get to know yourself to know what will be the best fit. That part can't be answered by anyone but you.

Having said that, I am happy with my profession. In terms of a career, surgery is very exciting, and vascular (which is the fellowship to which I am headed) is changing almost daily with new technology. I have done about 150 lap chole's and yes, every one is exciting. There are different reasons... sicker patient, younger person, difficult anatomy, the privilege of operating on someone you know well... it may get old in 10 or 15 or 20 years, but I don't expect that. I work with attendings (not all, but many) who LOVE what they do. Hopefully you will encounter people who fall into this category, because they can really energize/motivate/add perspective to medicine. Part of how I ended up even applying to the program I matched at is that one of my attendings is an alum. I never expected them to take a second look at me, and now I am joining them for two years.

Personally, medicine is demanding. Yes, there is less personal time, and I have considered quitting and looking for something less time intensive. I have dragged myself home just to wish for more than 12 hours off so I can recharge. This part is more unique to medicine, and anyone going into medicine should be aware of and ready for it (to the extent that you can).

I've heard a lot like this, but is medicine really ANY different? After your 3000th lap chole, aren't you a mindless drone? Titrating someone's hydrochlorothiazide? 60 hours is living the dream compared to that of a doctor. And they get paid time and a half. And these are just the retail guys we're talking about.

I could never titrate someone's hctz; that is why I am not in medicine. One of my best friends just could not justify tolerating the typically more abusive training of surgery, and chose medicine. We are both happy with our choices.

At the end of the day, I still am excited to be in surgery. Not every day is great and not every procedure goes well. Patients and their families add a whole new challenge in some circumstances. Could I do something else? Nope, not with the enjoyment that I have for my career.
 
im in my third year and pretty much hate medicine.

i dont really understand how anyone's happy in it. all the residents just make fun of the patients all the time. we're all pretty miserable.

how easy is it to pay off 100 grand? thats the only reason im staying in medicine, lol
 
O'k, let's say you've got the money to bail you out. What other career you would have picked? Also, do you just have a tough rotation now, or some other rather temprorary rough time? Or you just hate the whole thing, and you want to get out, no matter what? Care to share a bit?
Thanks

im in my third year and pretty much hate medicine.

i dont really understand how anyone's happy in it. all the residents just make fun of the patients all the time. we're all pretty miserable.

how easy is it to pay off 100 grand? thats the only reason im staying in medicine, lol
 
Tigger, thanks for continuing to share your opinion. Any suggestions for someone who could never titrate someone's hctz or do a lap chole for the umpteenth time?

im in my third year and pretty much hate medicine.

i dont really understand how anyone's happy in it. all the residents just make fun of the patients all the time. we're all pretty miserable.

how easy is it to pay off 100 grand? thats the only reason im staying in medicine, lol

dan, the patients aren't the only ones they ridicule. Other residents, attendings, departments, nurses, students. 100 grand is definitely a lot, but so is the rest of your life.
 
This question hasn't been posed or answered:

If you want to do research, and not see patients, should you do a residency? Internship? Postdoc? All 3? Why or why not?
 
This question hasn't been posed or answered:

If you want to do research, and not see patients, should you do a residency? Internship? Postdoc? All 3? Why or why not?

The question has been posed and answered several times in the past, just not in this thread. The conventional wisdom is that you should at the very least do an intern year if not a full residency. If you are a straight MD (or a gay MD...but w/o a PhD) you will have a difficult time finding a research position without also having at least a residency and in many cases, a fellowship w/ research under your belt.

If you're also a PhD things get a little easier but the compensation is at the PhD level, not the MD level. Nobody cares if you have an MD if you can't also be roped into doing a few weeks of service to justify your existence. Without clinical experience/chops you've essentially wasted the 4y of med school as far as employers will be concerned. And you'll have to do at least 1 post-doc if not more which makes the training timeline pretty similar...but you'll get paid less as a post-doc than you will as "research fellow."

You will require post-grad training to get a job regardless of your background and prior training, so don't think that you can leave med school and get a research job. I know several MD/PhDs who didn't do a residency and now regret it b/c it limits their opportunities.

So, if all you want to do is (bench) research, your best bet is something like Path where you don't have to deal w/ patients at all (except the dead ones) and you won't have to do any sort of a "real" intern year either and research is an expected part of the training. Having said that, if you want to have a real research project that you can take away and use to start your own lab, you'll probably need another 1-3 years of research after the official residency end.

The ABIM Research Pathway is another way to go if you can stomach the idea of 3-4 yrs of patient contact. 2 yrs of IM then 1-2 yrs of clinical work then a post-doc. 6-7 years total training.

In the end, there's no easy way to do this. Good luck deciding which, if any, of these or other routes is best for you.
 
Very simple to answer this question:

If you don't want to be a clinician, DON'T GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL!!!
 
Get a MBA and go for administration. Or just go for administration regardless. Some companies like insurance companies want consultation. However, they want someone that did a residency.

I checked into this one time for a friend who thought he was changing his mind about medicine.
 
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