Emmie

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If I really want to specialize (definitely not ortho or OS) after DS, should I join the Army or the Navy? Which one will give me a better chance? Thanks.
 

krmower

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If I really want to specialize (definitely not ortho or OS) after DS, should I join the Army or the Navy? Which one will give me a better chance? Thanks.
Check the threads - that has been covered multiple times.
 

Lifetime2Drill

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If I really want to specialize (definitely not ortho or OS) after DS, should I join the Army or the Navy? Which one will give me a better chance? Thanks.
*sigh*

How can you know you DEF want to specialize? You guys have no idea what dental specialties are all about. The whole point of becoming a specialist is becoming a dentist, then pursuing more education to build on that experience. There is no way you can know, at this point, that you want to be a pediatric dentist, endodontist, periodontist, etc. Nothing you do before dental school (including shadowing, watching your dad, or whatever) can make you certain that a specialty is suited for you. Its not all about the money.

Please, all pre-dents: Get this through your stubborn heads. ^^^
 

korndoctor

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army should have more opportunities. the navy and af are being downsized at the moment and you might be competing for a limited amount of spots for residencies.
 

eric275

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army should have more opportunities. the navy and af are being downsized at the moment and you might be competing for a limited amount of spots for residencies.
Your info is incorrect. Actually the Navy is in the process of increasing the total number of billets, this info was put out by BUMED.

As for which service will have more opportunities, totally dependent on the needs of that service. Also your chance of selection is a factor of the number and qualifications of the applicant pool for that year.
 

krmower

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Your info is incorrect. Actually the Navy is in the process of increasing the total number of billets, this info was put out by BUMED.

As for which service will have more opportunities, totally dependent on the needs of that service. Also your chance of selection is a factor of the number and qualifications of the applicant pool for that year.
If the info is incorrect, then please post the current spots available and also what it will be changing to. When I have called Navy Graduate education to get the number - I was told it varies year to year based upon need. So it would be interesting to see what is available.
 
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AFDDS

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army should have more opportunities. the navy and af are being downsized at the moment and you might be competing for a limited amount of spots for residencies.
The AF is not downsizing in any aspect, education or total numbers. As a matter of fact, we have increased our educational opportunities by offering more AEGD-1 positions.

Statistically, you chances are about the same. It will vary, by service, from year to year. All the military programs are some of the best in the world, so you can't go wrong either way.
 

Emmie

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*sigh*

How can you know you DEF want to specialize?
You guys have no idea what dental specialties are all about. The whole point of becoming a specialist is becoming a dentist, then pursuing more education to build on that experience. There is no way you can know, at this point, that you want to be a pediatric dentist, endodontist, periodontist, etc. Nothing you do before dental school (including shadowing, watching your dad, or whatever) can make you certain that a specialty is suited for you. Its not all about the money.

Please, all pre-dents: Get this through your stubborn heads. ^^^
It certainly not about the money. I have been working as both dental assistant and dental lab tech for several years, I know enough real life dentistry to determine specializing in X will make me happy.
 

Lifetime2Drill

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It certainly not about the money. I have been working as both dental assistant and dental lab tech for several years, I know enough real life dentistry to determine specializing in X will make me happy.
Being a lab tech will certainly help you with Pros. Best of luck to you.
 

Smills91

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army should have more opportunities. the navy and af are being downsized at the moment and you might be competing for a limited amount of spots for residencies.
Yeah, that doesn' make much sense. The public sector seems to be increasing by the day. I can't imagine the military is opposite of that trend.
 

krmower

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Yeah, that doesn' make much sense. The public sector seems to be increasing by the day. I can't imagine the military is opposite of that trend.
What you are not factoring in is the lag time between civilian and military.

Students graduating HPSP now came in in 2006 before the economy took a dive.

You may have increasing competition in future years as the increased retention and recruiting occuring now filter down.

The other factor is the number applying for the spots. If you look at military acceptance rates, in many specialties it is dramatically better than in civilian. For most Army specialties you have better than a 1:2 chance of getting in - much different than what you see on the outside.
 

eric275

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If the info is incorrect, then please post the current spots available and also what it will be changing to. When I have called Navy Graduate education to get the number - I was told it varies year to year based upon need. So it would be interesting to see what is available.
Are you referring to the current spots available for total dentists or in specialty training?

I was speaking in reference to total numbers. Since you stated that you called Navy Graduate Education I am assuming that you may be talking about specialty spots.

The presentation we received at BUMED stated that the pre-Clinton downsize numbers were ~1200 active duty dentists. We are now right around 1000 active duty or just under. With the current projections of retirement and realizations about the lost money for using contract dentists, BUMED has pushed for, and been able to get the number of billets increased to ~1100 dentists from what I recall (I don't have the PPT to reference) over the next several years.

The residency billets vary slightly depending on need, from what I have seen. i.e. Comp ~4 - 8 residents, Pros ~3 - 6, Ortho ~2 - 4, ... This is accomplished by adjusting the number of residents at Bethesda combined with the number that are trained out-service or in civilian programs. The specialties that are under-manned have greater ability to take more residents. It's not really a straight forward answer for each residency, as not all specialties have the same need year to year.
 

AFDDS

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Can any army dentists out there confirm this statement?
I'm not Army, but I can confirm it. The pool of people applying to military residencies is smaller no matter which service you are talking about. In the AF, for example, we may (I emphasize "may") have 8 people per year apply for 4-6 OMS positions. Most civilian programs will have 20- a hundred apply for residency spots depending on the program. It doesn't matter which service, the pool is smaller and the ratio is better.

All that being said, I think its important to note, the process is still very competitive. While the acceptance ratio is higher, those that are accepted would be competitive anywhere. So, you still need to be competitive to be accepted into any program.
 
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I'm not Army, but I can confirm it. The pool of people applying to military residencies is smaller no matter which service you are talking about. In the AF, for example, we may (I emphasize "may") have 8 people per year apply for 4-6 OMS positions. Most civilian programs will have 20- a hundred apply for residency spots depending on the program. It doesn't matter which service, the pool is smaller and the ratio is better.

All that being said, I think its important to note, the process is still very competitive. While the acceptance ratio is higher, those that are accepted would be competitive anywhere. So, you still need to be competitive to be accepted into any program.
It should be noted that in the private system people often apply at 20+ residencies, so that really skews the applied/accepted ratio at individual programs. In the military you only put in one application. If you took the total number of people applying to private residencies and divided by the total number of positions I bet it is a lot closer. It's not as if my dental school has 20 people applying to OMFS and only one will get in... it's probably more around the 2:1.

From what I have seen however, it certainly can be much easier through the military with respect to gpa/boards, if you are willing to put in the years of service.
 

AFDDS

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Understood, but 20 applications is still 20 applications. You are still competing against 20 apps instead of 4-8 apps. I know KRMOWER has worked this very issue and so have I.

My main point was that it is competitive either way.

It should be noted that in the private system people often apply at 20+ residencies, so that really skews the applied/accepted ratio at individual programs. In the military you only put in one application. If you took the total number of people applying to private residencies and divided by the total number of positions I bet it is a lot closer. It's not as if my dental school has 20 people applying to OMFS and only one will get in... it's probably more around the 2:1.

From what I have seen however, it certainly can be much easier through the military with respect to gpa/boards, if you are willing to put in the years of service.
 

UBDent19

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Since I posted it I can. If you search threads I have also posted the specific numbers of people selected over several years.
Sorry, krmower, when I quoted you I didn't notice your Army icon. Regarding specialty programs, if you are accepted into both a military residency and a civilian one, does the Army choose which one you accept?
 
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Understood, but 20 applications is still 20 applications. You are still competing against 20 apps instead of 4-8 apps. I know KRMOWER has worked this very issue and so have I.

My main point was that it is competitive either way.
Yes, but the way MATCH works it doesn't really matter.

This is what it looks like on the private side:
2011 MATCH for OMFS: 383 applications, 210 positions offered.

Not trying to argue about anything here, I just think this needs to be clarified for people unfamiliar. Acceptance ratios don't matter: all that matters is what type of people are actually getting accepted. It seems the military is more willing to look past class rank and board scores. This makes it a great opportunity for specializing. :thumbup:
 

AFDDS

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So roughly 2:1 in the civilian world. The majority of the time it is better than that in the military. More like 1:1 application wise. Endo and Ortho will run close to 2:1 many years, but not always. You may not think that matters, but I do.

Also, like I said earlier. I have worked on this very issue for the AF. I ran the board for the whole medical service for 2 years and I've been involved in AF education for 8 years. It is rare, in the AF at least, that someone is accepted into a military program that wouldn't be accepted into a civilian program. In other words, we don't look past class rank and board scores very often. If it does happen, its only because someone has spent time on active duty proving they can handle a residency and have a good military record.

Yes, but the way MATCH works it doesn't really matter.

This is what it looks like on the private side:
2011 MATCH for OMFS: 383 applications, 210 positions offered.

Not trying to argue about anything here, I just think this needs to be clarified for people unfamiliar. Acceptance ratios don't matter: all that matters is what type of people are actually getting accepted. It seems the military is more willing to look past class rank and board scores. This makes it a great opportunity for specializing. :thumbup:
 

krmower

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Sorry, krmower, when I quoted you I didn't notice your Army icon. Regarding specialty programs, if you are accepted into both a military residency and a civilian one, does the Army choose which one you accept?
Army does not let you apply for a civilian one - unless you request it ahead of time and get permission which is not likely to occur. If you apply on your own, they will not let you go.