If you were offered compensation for volunteering, you would...

[Planes2Doc]

An age old question you'll only find in the medical school admissions process.

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[Tots]

If you are accepting compensation then it is not volunteering.....And by compensation I mean something substantial, not a free bagel or something similar(man I got so many free bagels volunteering... ).

 

[cookiemonsters]

.

 

[mehc012]

An age old question you'll only find in the medical school admissions process.

Well, as Tots said, if it's compensated it's not volunteering. So, I'll assume that the question really means "would you accept compensation for the services you currently provide as a volunteer".

Hell yes. I would accept money for pretty much anything that didn't require me to act unethically - I'm not a hitman, thief, cheater, or drug dealer, etc.
I would accept money for sitting on my couch if I could find someone to offer it.
I would accept money for absolutely nothing.
So of course I would accept money for doing something I already was...hey, free money!

I think what makes something an altruistically motivated experience isn't so much whether you are compensated for it, but whether you would be willing to do it if you weren't. Unfortunately, we can't take everyone's word on that one, so the best way to demonstrate that you would do something without pay is to...do it without getting paid.

Now, if you put further strings on that money, like "given the choice, would you get paid for your volunteering or allocate that money to your hospital's budget" or "knowing that with that money, the hospital could buy xyz", then it becomes a slightly different issue. Generally, though, if the hospital is straight-up offering you the money, they are demonstrating that your work is worth that value to them, and so I would feel little guilt in accepting.

Either way, adding those considerations is separate from simply asking whether someone would be willing to perform their service without pay, because by just doing that, the person has already demonstrated that they have strong internal motivations for contributing (or they wouldn't volunteer to do it).

 

[circulus vitios]

Accept and keep quiet.

 

[HSUReddie]

I don't really think things I'm getting paid for or things I'm getting credit for in any educational degree (i.e. unpaid practicum for public health degree) are really technically considered volunteering.

 

[mehc012]

And, question...what is the difference between "Accept; only if it doesn't negatively affect application" and "Not accept, unless it doesn't negatively affect application"?

Likewise with "Accept; Only if replaced with additional volunteer activity" and "Not accept; unless new activity is found" ?

 

[stevvo111]

certainly

some would say "it's not volunteering", but I would consider it as more of a grant or scholarship achieved due to my commitment in said position rather than as "compensation" for simply doing it.

 

[CaliGirl14]

So like a job? Yeah sure being a poor college student kinda sucks.

 

[Captain Sisko]

the hospital i volunteer at puts $5.50 on each volunteer's card that they can use each week. it doesn't roll over and isn't good for anything but what's offered in the cafeteria. I'm kind of skeptical and haven't really used the allowance for anything but a cup of coffee occasionally to stay awake on my drive home, but i routinely see a whole line of volunteers queuing up after their shifts with naked juices and candybars. i figure as long as i don't indulge I'm probably ok. anyone have thoughts on this?

 

[487806]

An age old question you'll only find in the medical school admissions process.

I'm assuming you mean that I am currently volunteering and later I was offered compensation. There are only two options: I will accept it and mention it in AMCAS or I will politely turn it down and continue my usual work.

 

[Guero]

If you are accepting compensation then it is not volunteering.....And by compensation I mean something substantial, not a free bagel or something similar(man I got so many free bagels volunteering... ).

Agreed. I chose "never expect" because I don't. When I'm volunteering, I'm volunteering. Sure, like Tots said, we sometimes get free food, but that's it. I volunteer at several places, but the faith based clinic is freakin' amazing, even considering I'm staunchly agnostic. Everyone helps each other.. All of us pre-meds leave our MCAT study materials so others can borrow them and avoid paying the exorbitant prices, not to mention how shadowing opportunities and great LORs abound. Beyond that, the satisfaction of caring for destitute, uninsured pts is compensation enough for me. Love that dang place.

 

[Geebeejay]

Accept it....I'm still serving the community, and if my volunteer "supervisor" decides that my work merits compensation, then why not take it? I'm not a martyr, and I don't make very much money already, so why not accept it? Hell, it would seem rude to me to turn it down. What I am doing as a volunteer doesn't change at all just because I'm getting paid.

If I already made a lot of money in another job and volunteered on the side, and therefore didn't need any extra (likely minimal) compensation, only then would I likely turn it down.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Well, as Tots said, if it's compensated it's not volunteering. So, I'll assume that the question really means "would you accept compensation for the services you currently provide as a volunteer".

Hell yes. I would accept money for pretty much anything that didn't require me to act unethically - I'm not a hitman, thief, cheater, or drug dealer, etc.
I would accept money for sitting on my couch if I could find someone to offer it.
I would accept money for absolutely nothing.
So of course I would accept money for doing something I already was...hey, free money!

I think what makes something an altruistically motivated experience isn't so much whether you are compensated for it, but whether you would be willing to do it if you weren't. Unfortunately, we can't take everyone's word on that one, so the best way to demonstrate that you would do something without pay is to...do it without getting paid.

Now, if you put further strings on that money, like "given the choice, would you get paid for your volunteering or allocate that money to your hospital's budget" or "knowing that with that money, the hospital could buy xyz", then it becomes a slightly different issue. Generally, though, if the hospital is straight-up offering you the money, they are demonstrating that your work is worth that value to them, and so I would feel little guilt in accepting.

Either way, adding those considerations is separate from simply asking whether someone would be willing to perform their service without pay, because by just doing that, the person has already demonstrated that they have strong internal motivations for contributing (or they wouldn't volunteer to do it).

Yeah I was trying to get at the issue of whether it's really altruism or not. My assumption is that most college pre-meds are doing volunteering because they know it's required. As poor college students, I'm guessing that a lot of them would jump at the opportunity of receiving some sort of compensation.

I think that the typical pre-med is significantly different than either a genuinely altruistic person of the same age, or a financially secure adult with time on their hands (or once again, simply altruistic), who go into the commitment with absolutely NO expectation of receiving money.

And, question...what is the difference between "Accept; only if it doesn't negatively affect application" and "Not accept, unless it doesn't negatively affect application"?

Likewise with "Accept; Only if replaced with additional volunteer activity" and "Not accept; unless new activity is found" ?

Whoops! Good point. Those are pretty much the same. I viewed them more as swaying in one way or another. But yeah, they pretty much are the same, maybe showing that the person who is more willing to grab the money is slightly more box-checkerish than the one who will more likely not accept it. Or this makes no sense.

 

[Narmerguy]

If you are accepting compensation then it is not volunteering.....And by compensation I mean something substantial, not a free bagel or something similar(man I got so many free bagels volunteering... ).

Agreed, it's not volunteering. Timing matters as well, if you get offered money after doing the job, vs doing the job knowing that you will eventually be paid.

Not all good work has to be volunteer work though, there's nothing wrong with taking pay, but this scenario just seems kind of bizarre. I can't imagine an organization that I've already done the work for suddenly deciding that I must be compensated even though I already agreed I didn't need compensation. I would probably turn down the compensation unless they insisted. Realistically, if I believed in the volunteer work (and if I didn't, why else would I be volunteering there anyway? ) I would want them to use the money towards the organization or those being served.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Volunteering is a load of bull. It's just a way to get boring tasks done without spending money in payroll. But the bigger scam is the co-op togram where you actually pay money to work for someone in exchange for "educational credits". People are just busy trying to screw over our generation for greater profits.

 

[Geebeejay]

Volunteering is a load of bull. It's just a way to get boring tasks done without spending money in payroll. But the bigger scam is the co-op togram where you actually pay money to work for someone in exchange for "educational credits". People are just busy trying to screw over our generation for greater profits.

co-op programs pay you hourly wages while you are working and simultaneously earning these "educational credits". This is what differentiates co-ops from internships.

 

[DrSolus]

OP - There is such a thing and it happens to be rather well regarded. In fact, thousands of people have done it. It's called AmeriCorps.

 

[mehc012]

Yeah I was trying to get at the issue of whether it's really altruism or not. My assumption is that most college pre-meds are doing volunteering because they know it's required. As poor college students, I'm guessing that a lot of them would jump at the opportunity of receiving some sort of compensation.

I think that the typical pre-med is significantly different than either a genuinely altruistic person of the same age, or a financially secure adult with time on their hands (or once again, simply altruistic), who go into the commitment with absolutely NO expectation of receiving money.

Again, at the end of the day, they were willing to perform those services without pay. Whether that's a measure of altruism or of box-checking motivation, it's still a motivation inherently separate from money. Everyone offered this choice will have started their position w/o compensation, and most likely with NO expectation of ever receiving it, and therefore would be willing to do it without compensation...whether or not AMCAS preferences obscure true altruism with box-checkers is a topic for another thread.

I also think that the difference between the college kid and the adult is primarily financial...minimum wage is a big deal to one, and small fry to the other. I don't think that's a fair metric to rate altruism by.

Really, I believe that the AMCAS provides the push to find 'a' volunteer opportunity, but there are a LOT of varying kinds out there, and I think that most people, even box-checkers, try to fill that application gap with something that they really want to do. Maybe they wouldn't have gone out and found it without the motivation, but their choice of volunteer work still reflects what's meaningful to them; it's still something they were willing to do without pay.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Agreed, it's not volunteering. Timing matters as well, if you get offered money after doing the job, vs doing the job knowing that you will eventually be paid.

Not all good work has to be volunteer work though, there's nothing wrong with taking pay, but this scenario just seems kind of bizarre. I can't imagine an organization that I've already done the work for suddenly deciding that I must be compensated even though I already agreed I didn't need compensation. I would probably turn down the compensation unless they insisted. Realistically, if I believed in the volunteer work (and if I didn't, why else would I be volunteering there anyway? ) I would want them to use the money towards the organization or those being served.

In all actuality, the situation does seem a little bizarre, but I have seen threads from time to time where a pre-med is in such a situation. If the student was genuinely "volunteering" their time to the organization, then there would never be an issue. They would turn down any offer of compensation down without a second thought.

But if a pre-med needs to consider whether or not to take the money, it becomes pretty obvious that they are concerned about how the ADCOMs will now view the EC.

Also, in regards to the bolded part, I think that many people tend to lump a non-profit and charity together. Just because an organization is a non-profit does not mean that they are a charity. I had absolutely no issues with doing my non-clinical volunteering since the organization was entirely charitable. On the other hand, I was disgusted with the things I had to do as an ED volunteer at the local non-profit hospital. I was doing the work of the orderly, and usually being bossed around by techs. I fail to see how the money that might have been saved by not having an additional tech on duty is going to be given to the patients. Patients still need to pay for the services they receive at the hospital. They won't have money or wonderful things thrown at them. I just see this money going to line the pockets of the board of directors, since ultimately that is the main difference between a for-profit versus non-profit hospital, where the money goes to shareholders for the former, and it goes to the board of directors for the latter.

Hospitals can keep their non-profit status by providing charity care to uninsured patients that enter the ED. But is it really so charitable now when you're required by LAW to treat them?

As for hospitals like Shriners or free clinics, well that's another story and I fully believe in volunteering for places like that. Any other hospital is just taking advantage of free labor. I still fail to see why all of those elderly women throw themselves at the hospitals so they can do administrative tasks for free.

 

[sazerac]

OP - There is such a thing and it happens to be rather well regarded. In fact, thousands of people have done it. It's called AmeriCorps.

Indeed, you're a "paid volunteer". I put my Americorps project down as a volunteer activity on my AMCAS app. Americorps itself insists you are not paid, instead they call it a "stipend" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. You still earn W-2 wages for your labor.

Only one school ever called my bluff on my paid volunteer experience - the University of Utah SOM. You actually need to log a certain number of volunteer hours to even apply there, and they explicitly do not accept Americorp service because it's paid.

 

[mehc012]

In all actuality, the situation does seem a little bizarre, but I have seen threads from time to time where a pre-med is in such a situation. If the student was genuinely "volunteering" their time to the organization, then there would never be an issue. They would turn down any offer of compensation down without a second thought.

But if a pre-med needs to consider whether or not to take the money, it becomes pretty obvious that they are concerned about how the ADCOMs will now view the EC.

I disagree. If you were truly volunteering, all that means is that you thought the job you were doing was worthwhile and ought to be done, even if the hospital didn't have the money to pay for it.

If the hospital, of its own accord, decides that the job you are doing is valuable enough to merit compensation, then
a) they have the disposable money for it
b) they now agree with you that that service is worth keeping around

Neither of those interferes with my original motivation for volunteering. In fact, b) implies that I have demonstrated the value to the hospital, and hopefully they will make an effort to continue to provide that service.

I wouldn't volunteer because "this job is worthless but I can do it" I volunteer because "this job has merit even if it's not reflected in the budget" Doing the first means that I'm volunteering purely to make myself feel good, not to provide something meaningful to the hospital.
Being a martyr doesn't make you more altruistic.

 

[circulus vitios]

Most volunteerism is straight bull****. If the work was worth anything it would be paid.

 

[goofball]

Accept it and keep quiet.

Clinical volunteering is the most bull**** activity there is in the premed admissions process. You literally do nothing besides clean beds and escort patients. That has nothing to do with medicine, and that's why I quit as soon as I got accepted.


I deserve to be paid for it IMO.




But anyways, med school admissions is a game of lies and deception on both sides. What's the harm in a bit more deception?

You should NEVER expect compensation if you are volunteering to help the community!

Sigh, I hate idealists...

 

[Barcu]

Let's complain about volunteering some more!

Seriously, just give it a rest. Yes, it can suck. Yes, it's weird to pretty much require "altruistic" behavior. Still, it's just a hoop you have to jump through. Don't pretend like the med school admission process is different than every other type of application process or job application or whatever. There are always hoops, in every single field.

Volunteering is pretty much a requirement, but if you do it right, it can actually really help you. Doing something that actually interests you is much more interesting and this entusiasm actually does show in interviews, essays etc. Don't just do it for med school.

Can you really not find something interesting to you that actually helps people? I have a hard time believing that. And if you can't, suck it up and just do something. There are more hoops in med school. Then in residency. Then as an attending... It really never stops.

Really? What do all you anti-volunteering people want? We all know that a completely numbers-based application is impossible, so ECs are a great way to help adcoms choose people. You can choose to the required volunteering. And if you have good numbers, you have a pretty good shot. Or you could actually find something that you are interested in, and that really will help you shine and get into more programs. I think people overestimate how many people can fake the altruistic attitude. They exist, but I'm sure most of the time, adcoms can tell if you really do care or not.

 

[circulus vitios]

Let's complain about volunteering some more!

Seriously, just give it a rest. Yes, it can suck. Yes, it's weird to pretty much require "altruistic" behavior. Still, it's just a hoop you have to jump through. Don't pretend like the med school admission process is different than every other type of application process or job application or whatever. There are always hoops, in every single field.

Volunteering is pretty much a requirement, but if you do it right, it can actually really help you. Doing something that actually interests you is much more interesting and this entusiasm actually does show in interviews, essays etc. Don't just do it for med school.

Can you really not find something interesting to you that actually helps people? I have a hard time believing that. And if you can't, suck it up and just do something. There are more hoops in med school. Then in residency. Then as an attending... It really never stops.

Really? What do all you anti-volunteering people want? We all know that a completely numbers-based application is impossible, so ECs are a great way to help adcoms choose people. You can choose to the required volunteering. And if you have good numbers, you have a pretty good shot. Or you could actually find something that you are interested in, and that really will help you shine and get into more programs. I think people overestimate how many people can fake the altruistic attitude. They exist, but I'm sure most of the time, adcoms can tell if you really do care or not.

Absolutely no other field requires unpaid volunteer work. Unpaid internships in the workforce, while stupid and reprehensible, usually lead to paid employment or at least promise "valuable experience." Law, business, and graduate studies programs look for experience and no distinction is made between paid and unpaid work. Medical school admissions actively look for unpaid work. Admissions officers don't care about experience because the majority of unpaid volunteer work is absolutely worthless, which is why it is unpaid. I've created several believable character sketches so I can bull**** my way through any interview question if the interviewer is stupid enough to ask about my "amazing and insightful" experiences as an unpaid hospital volunteer. It's all a ridiculous and disgusting sham.

 

[galaxyx]

I think the situation that the OP is talking about is more common when volunteering for truly not for profit organizations. They're usually small and run by a few people. They may get a grant to hire a new position either temporarily or permanently and will want to hire someone that's been volunteering there because they're already familiar with that persons dedication and work ethic or a supervisory position may open up and once again be offered to the experienced volunteer. I don't think that taking these jobs is incongruous with the altruistic nature of volunteering because you are still there to support the organization and the work that it does. Also, some organizations must fulfill certain roles with paid employees for the sake of liability and/or insurance purposes.

 

[mehc012]

.

 

[Barcu]

Absolutely no other field requires unpaid volunteer work. Unpaid internships in the workforce, while stupid and reprehensible, usually lead to paid employment or at least promise "valuable experience." Law, business, and graduate studies programs look for experience and no distinction is made between paid and unpaid work. Medical school admissions actively look for unpaid work. Admissions officers don't care about experience because the majority of unpaid volunteer work is absolutely worthless, which is why it is unpaid. I've created several believable character sketches so I can bull**** my way through any interview question if the interviewer is stupid enough to ask about my "amazing and insightful" experiences as an unpaid hospital volunteer. It's all a ridiculous and disgusting sham.

My volunteering turned into paid work. And some of my research was paid. My tutoring was paid. It didn't hurt me.

Yeah, I did some non-paid stuff that I was interested in and some boring non-paid clinical stuff, but it didn't come up much. However, more of my ECs were paid rather than not. I think people overestimate how much taking money for something matters. My experiences were important, not whether I got paid or not.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Absolutely no other field requires unpaid volunteer work. Unpaid internships in the workforce, while stupid and reprehensible, usually lead to paid employment or at least promise "valuable experience." Law, business, and graduate studies programs look for experience and no distinction is made between paid and unpaid work. Medical school admissions actively look for unpaid work. Admissions officers don't care about experience because the majority of unpaid volunteer work is absolutely worthless, which is why it is unpaid. I've created several believable character sketches so I can bull**** my way through any interview question if the interviewer is stupid enough to ask about my "amazing and insightful" experiences as an unpaid hospital volunteer. It's all a ridiculous and disgusting sham.

I think circulus vitios hit the nail right on the head. I think that the medical school admissions process is the only one that actively seeks out unpaid work. When I was an undergraduate student and not pre-med, I did a for-credit internship program that was supposed to be unpaid. Soon after officially matching up with the company, the program director emailed me with some "great news," it turned out that company was willing to pay around $3,000 for the experience. It was fantastic!

In any other field, anyone would be ecstatic to hear such news! But when it comes to medical school admissions, someone would need to take a step back and think about it if the hospital or organization suddenly offered to pay money. Any one with the least bit of common sense would see turning down such an opportunity as nothing short of idiotic. On the contrary, a pre-med must weigh out how going from "volunteering" to paid work will effect the way they are perceived by ADCOMs.

In such a thread, I saw LizzyM mention that ADCOMs understand that young people have responsibilities to take care of and therefore need money. If this is the case, then why is there such an emphasis on community service (with significant amount of hours). If a student who obviously is not financially secure is suddenly spending hundreds or 1000+ hours volunteering, shouldn't anyone intervene since this is pretty much acting irresponsibly given the circumstances?

 

[Barcu]

To add. You can still show altruism and passion while getting paid. My job was at a low-income clinic and how that shaped my views toward becoming a physician and how to respond to patients with different backgrounds. Whether I got paid for this wasn't important.

 

[Barcu]

I think circulus vitios hit the nail right on the head. I think that the medical school admissions process is the only one that actively seeks out unpaid work. When I was an undergraduate student and not pre-med, I did a for-credit internship program that was supposed to be unpaid. Soon after officially matching up with the company, the program director emailed me with some "great news," it turned out that company was willing to pay around $3,000 for the experience. It was fantastic!

In any other field, anyone would be ecstatic to hear such news! But when it comes to medical school admissions, someone would need to take a step back and think about it if the hospital or organization suddenly offered to pay money. Any one with the least bit of common sense would see turning down such an opportunity as nothing short of idiotic. On the contrary, a pre-med must weigh out how going from "volunteering" to paid work will effect the way they are perceived by ADCOMs.

In such a thread, I saw LizzyM mention that ADCOMs understand that young people have responsibilities to take care of and therefore need money. If this is the case, then why is there such an emphasis on community service (with significant amount of hours). If a student who obviously is not financially secure is suddenly spending hundreds or 1000+ hours volunteering, shouldn't anyone intervene since this is pretty much acting irresponsibly given the circumstances?

The issue here seems to be that people are assuming that paid stuff doesn't count. It does count, and you can do the right things in the eyes of adcoms and get paid.

The big issue is that it can be difficult to find a job and get the clinical experience that adcoms like to see. That is a problem. But that is a different issue than compensation automatically negating your experience.

Adcoms have also said that it's really the non-clinical stuff that shows altruism more than the clinical stuff. Everyone does clinical stuff because they need to be exposed to the medical field even when it isn't always the best experience- but honestly, you can't just show up and do cool things, that's unrealistic. Being in the environment is what is important. And if you get paid and get good clnical experience, it's not going to hurt you. But again, that can be hard to find. But you need this experience whether unpaid or not.

It's the non-clinical stuff that is the best way to show that altruism that adcoms are looking for. Everyone should be able to find SOMETHING to donate a couple hours a week to that interests them. If you can't find that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[circulus vitios]

In such a thread, I saw LizzyM mention that ADCOMs understand that young people have responsibilities to take care of and therefore need money. If this is the case, then why is there such an emphasis on community service (with significant amount of hours). If a student who obviously is not financially secure is suddenly spending hundreds or 1000+ hours volunteering, shouldn't anyone intervene since this is pretty much acting irresponsibly given the circumstances?

Because it's absolutely necessary! I honestly don't know how medical schools found good doctors before the past few generations of the admissions cabal took over and created primary AND secondary applications, required a half-dozen pointless essays, jacked up tuition hundreds of percent, and required applicants to work for free, to prove how altruistic they are! How lucky and privileged we are to live in such a wonderfully enlightened era of admissions, where all it takes to recruit good doctors is money, wasted time, and conformation to objectively stupid ideals.

 

[xffan624]

Absolutely no other field requires unpaid volunteer work. Unpaid internships in the workforce, while stupid and reprehensible, usually lead to paid employment or at least promise "valuable experience." Law, business, and graduate studies programs look for experience and no distinction is made between paid and unpaid work. Medical school admissions actively look for unpaid work. Admissions officers don't care about experience because the majority of unpaid volunteer work is absolutely worthless, which is why it is unpaid. I've created several believable character sketches so I can bull**** my way through any interview question if the interviewer is stupid enough to ask about my "amazing and insightful" experiences as an unpaid hospital volunteer. It's all a ridiculous and disgusting sham.

I didn't have any unpaid work since college, (which was 7 years ago) on my application and not even a significant amount of that. I got 5 II's-1WL, 1 acceptance. Maybe they see the military as paid work that is similar to volunteering...?

In truth, a lot of people say thank you for your service, but I get paid plenty (even more when I was deployed) and the Army even paid off my undergrad and grad school loans. It was a great deal for me, and I never felt like I wasn't getting appropriately compensated for my service.

 

[galaxyx]

In such a thread, I saw LizzyM mention that ADCOMs understand that young people have responsibilities to take care of and therefore need money. If this is the case, then why is there such an emphasis on community service (with significant amount of hours). If a student who obviously is not financially secure is suddenly spending hundreds or 1000+ hours volunteering, shouldn't anyone intervene since this is pretty much acting irresponsibly given the circumstances?

LizzyM also says that you should contribute ~2 hours a week to a cause of your choice. That's not 1000+ hours, that's about 100 hours/year. Given that most of the advice on SDN saying that non medical community service is necessary is coming from LizzyM, and LizzyM says that only a couple hours a week is necessary why are you jumping to the conclusion that 1000s of hours are necessary/encouraged?

 

[JESSFALLING]

If you are volunteering and begin getting paid for it, congratulations, you've been hired. You should present the situation in this light on your application as it speaks very well of you, i.e., someone thought your "free" work was valuable enough to pay you for it.

 

[music2doc]

Sure and mention it, why not? Getting offered a job after volunteering is a great testament to the work you've done.

 

[DrSolus]

Indeed, you're a "paid volunteer". I put my Americorps project down as a volunteer activity on my AMCAS app. Americorps itself insists you are not paid, instead they call it a "stipend" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. You still earn W-2 wages for your labor.

Only one school ever called my bluff on my paid volunteer experience - the University of Utah SOM. You actually need to log a certain number of volunteer hours to even apply there, and they explicitly do not accept Americorp service because it's paid.

Likewise, I put AC down as a volunteer activity. I like to argue that it really still is a volunteer experience because it's a living stipend. You need it to sustain yourself if you truly are supporting yourself, and it's still tough on that low of a salary when you're feeding, clothing, and paying rent for yourself. Not to mention the meager stipend still gets TAXED!! After taxes, it's something like $800 a month. Try living on THAT in NYC!

Still, let's be real. Most of us get some form of help from somewhere =P, and yes I am guilty of buying Starbucks once in awhile on my AC stipend

Utah's stance

 

[Arbor Vitae]

If you are accepting compensation then it is not volunteering.....And by compensation I mean something substantial, not a free bagel or something similar(man I got so many free bagels volunteering... ).

I'm totally going to report you to AMCAS for not documenting your free bagels.

 

[sazerac]

Likewise, I put AC down as a volunteer activity. I like to argue that it really still is a volunteer experience because it's a living stipend. You need it to sustain yourself if you truly are supporting yourself, and it's still tough on that low of a salary when you're feeding, clothing, and paying rent for yourself. Not to mention the meager stipend still gets TAXED!! After taxes, it's something like $800 a month. Try living on THAT in NYC!

Well everybody's Americorps experience is different, but my volunteer project was 450 hours. I was paid $3,000 over the course of the year as a stipend (remember this is a W2 stipend not a wage, so it still counts as volunteering not a job) plus $1,500 towards school tuition. Therefore I was making $4,500 per 450 hours, or $10 an hour at my project (actually more, since I don't think the scholarship portion was taxed). As a volunteer I was being paid more than the $8/hr genuine employees I was working along side with. They kind of got mad about that.

Mostly my Americorps project taught me the federal government sure has a funny way defining words like "volunteer". Apparently Utah sees right through B.S. like that.

 

[galaxyx]

Likewise, I put AC down as a volunteer activity. I like to argue that it really still is a volunteer experience because it's a living stipend. You need it to sustain yourself if you truly are supporting yourself, and it's still tough on that low of a salary when you're feeding, clothing, and paying rent for yourself. Not to mention the meager stipend still gets TAXED!! After taxes, it's something like $800 a month. Try living on THAT in NYC!

Still, let's be real. Most of us get some form of help from somewhere =P, and yes I am guilty of buying Starbucks once in awhile on my AC stipend

Utah's stance

Your "living" stipend is well above minimum wage if you consider the education award that goes along with it. You get to call it volunteering, but the person sitting next to you on the bus doesn't get to call their minimum wage job volunteering.
It's taxed because it's income. The IRS doesn't care where your income comes from. Though if you're only earning $12,000 a year, you should be getting most of that back, which means you shouldn't be having nearly as much tax withheld.

How do you differentiate between you earning $12,000/year through Americorp with a $5500 tax free education award or someone else working minimum wage for a non profit that earns about $14,000/yr. Why are you somehow superior in your motivations and then a volunteer?

 

[Lamel]

I would take the money, and put it down as a job on the AMCAS. I need the moolah. Even with a current job I am still looking for more -_-

 

[lobo.solo]

So like a job? Yeah sure being a poor college student kinda sucks.

This!! I sure as hell take a job if I needed

 

[DrSolus]

Well everybody's Americorps experience is different, but my volunteer project was 450 hours. I was paid $3,000 over the course of the year as a stipend (remember this is a W2 stipend not a wage, so it still counts as volunteering not a job) plus $1,500 towards school tuition. Therefore I was making $4,500 per 450 hours, or $10 an hour at my project (actually more, since I don't think the scholarship portion was taxed). As a volunteer I was being paid more than the $8/hr genuine employees I was working along side with. They kind of got mad about that.

Mostly my Americorps project taught me the federal government sure has a funny way defining words like "volunteer". Apparently Utah sees right through B.S. like that.

Your "living" stipend is well above minimum wage if you consider the education award that goes along with it. You get to call it volunteering, but the person sitting next to you on the bus doesn't get to call their minimum wage job volunteering.
It's taxed because it's income. The IRS doesn't care where your income comes from. Though if you're only earning $12,000 a year, you should be getting most of that back, which means you shouldn't be having nearly as much tax withheld.

How do you differentiate between you earning $12,000/year through Americorp with a $5500 tax free education award or someone else working minimum wage for a non profit that earns about $14,000/yr. Why are you somehow superior in your motivations and then a volunteer?

AmeriCorps programs vary widely, but the biggest program is the State/National Program with a 10 month commitment. That's 1700 hours, with no real personal/sick days. They say you can take 10 days, but with the 1700 hour commitment, you essentially don't really have days off because you have to work 8 hours every day in order to make the 1700 hrs in time (with the exception of major holidays). Regular employees can take days off and not have to work on weekends/afterhours to "make up" hours. On top of that, you are making only $9600 somewhat dollars during your service, until you get the tax return (if you qualify for one - I did not since I had savings intended for med school). It isn't fair to say you're earning $12000+$5000 (taxable) education award / 1700 hours and say you're earning $10/hr because it simply isn't true DURING your service. You dont see that $5500 until the end. So basically, you're only barely scrapping by until the completion of the program.

Yes, AC members are still better off than minimum wage laborers - but only marginally, so you basically are living the life of a minimum wage worker during your term of service - if you truly are living financially independently.

I am not claiming that AmeriCorps members' "motivations" are "superior" over anyone else's. There is, however, something to be said about committing to a project for an extended period of time for minimal pay (during service) doing jobs that most people would not want to do given their credentials/college background. Volunteers can quit whenever they want, AmeriCorps members CANNOT without incurring SIGNIFICANT losses. The difference is the commitment - it's full time, minimally compensated labor, with compensation intended to support living expenses and not much else. That's why it's considered volunteer work...at least that's my take on it.

 

[notbobtrustme]

You keep your goddamn mouth shut. Fake it till you make it baby.

 

[nysegop]

When you accept compensation it is no longer volunteering. It is work.

 

[galaxyx]

AmeriCorps programs vary widely, but the biggest program is the State/National Program with a 10 month commitment. That's 1700 hours, with no real personal/sick days. They say you can take 10 days, but with the 1700 hour commitment, you essentially don't really have days off because you have to work 8 hours every day in order to make the 1700 hrs in time (with the exception of major holidays). Regular employees can take days off and not have to work on weekends/afterhours to "make up" hours. On top of that, you are making only $9600 somewhat dollars during your service, until you get the tax return (if you qualify for one - I did not since I had savings intended for med school). It isn't fair to say you're earning $12000+$5000 (taxable) education award / 1700 hours and say you're earning $10/hr because it simply isn't true DURING your service. You dont see that $5500 until the end. So basically, you're only barely scrapping by until the completion of the program.

Yes, AC members are still better off than minimum wage laborers - but only marginally, so you basically are living the life of a minimum wage worker during your term of service - if you truly are living financially independently.

I am not claiming that AmeriCorps members' "motivations" are "superior" over anyone else's. There is, however, something to be said about committing to a project for an extended period of time for minimal pay (during service) doing jobs that most people would not want to do given their credentials/college background. Volunteers can quit whenever they want, AmeriCorps members CANNOT without incurring SIGNIFICANT losses. The difference is the commitment - it's full time, minimally compensated labor, with compensation intended to support living expenses and not much else. That's why it's considered volunteer work...at least that's my take on it.

So what you're saying is that volunteers can quit, but you're not a volunteer because if you quit you lose your education award?

 

[Juan Solo]

I wouldn't accept compensation. In fact I wouldn't even need a second to think about. I recall one time when I was much younger and before I even thought of going down the road to become a doctor, I was working as a bagger at a grocery store.

One day when I was pushing carts I found an envelope with $1100 in it and no one around. Literally no one was outside. I turned that envelope in and the person came back. This person practically begged me to take $100. I refused because I returned the money because my intent was to do the right thing and I volunteered to do it.

I guess bottom line for me I was a poor kind then and am a poor kid now and I still think volunteering and paid work are two different things.

 

[DrSolus]

So what you're saying is that volunteers can quit, but you're not a volunteer because if you quit you lose your education award?

I missed the part where I ever said I wasn't a volunteer. I said AC should be considered volunteering, even with the stipend, because it's a committed # of hours and the stipend is intended to cover living expenses - it is not pay.

I don't understand why you're taking such issue with this. Chip on your shoulder?

 

[mehc012]

I wouldn't accept compensation. In fact I wouldn't even need a second to think about. I recall one time when I was much younger and before I even thought of going down the road to become a doctor, I was working as a bagger at a grocery store.

One day when I was pushing carts I found an envelope with $1100 in it and no one around. Literally no one was outside. I turned that envelope in and the person came back. This person practically begged me to take $100. I refused because I returned the money because my intent was to do the right thing and I volunteered to do it.

I guess bottom line for me I was a poor kind then and am a poor kid now and I still think volunteering and paid work are two different things.

That's a completely different situation...I could wax poetic about the time I ditched my friends on a Friday night because I heard a tire blow out down the road and I rushed off into the pouring rain, found a little old lady with a flat tire and no clue that she even owned a jack, changed her tire laying in a rain puddle (while she held my beer from the party I'd left) and refused her offer of money afterwards...but that doesn't change the fact that if a hospital offers me a job instead of volunteering, I'd change over, simple as that. That's because when I volunteer, it's because there's a job that I think is worth being done, even without pay. Adding pay still gets the job done, it just demonstrates that the hospital recognizes the value of that job. It's about the job, not about me and patting myself on the back for being such a wonderful person. If the true value of the experience is wrapped up only in the 'volunteer' label, it's time to reevaluate your motivations.

Sent via phone, please excuse typos and formatting errors!