Iffy secondary subject

[DBC03]

In response to a prompt about when I didn't get something I thought I deserved, I am tempted to discuss the time I was pulled over for speeding and not given a ticket. It's probably not what the prompt is looking for (more like awards and stuff), but it is something that sticks out in my mind and is a different way to approach it. I would discuss how we all think we deserve accolades but often forget the times we are given grace. Is this a subject I should discuss? I figure most people have experience with getting pulled over at least once, but then again, this may rub someone the wrong way.

Two other options might include not graduating with honors because I was literally 0.01 GPA points below the cutoff or not receiving an award I was nominated for this year because my GPA was too low (when I transferred for a post-bac, they averaged in my GPA from an Ivy undergrad, so it was below the cutoff). Otherwise, I'm the type of person who doesn't expect to be rewarded and am more surprised when I am.

Thoughts?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Personally, I wouldn't talk about any of those 3, especially not the speeding...

 

[Professional Student]

I kind of like the speeding one. It's going to be hard to answer that type of question without sounding entitled, and your subject will do the exact opposite of that. The risk will be that your answer doesn't tell the adcom what it wants to know, even though you answered the prompt appropriately.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Here's a twist to this prompt, my own example FWIW.

In English 101, I got an A after writing the 10 page paper the night before. I deserved a C or lower because the paper, in my opinion, sucked, but got the A. After much thought, I talked to the prof and convinced him to change the grade to a C. Upon self reflection, I learned that I got away with something that I shouldn't have by submitting an inferior assignment because of my procrastination. For the rest of the semester, I learned not to procrastinate on all subsequent assignments.

 

[lexington251]

I would avoid those, but if you can spin the speeding ticket one properly, it could work.

 

[gyngyn]

In response to a prompt about when I didn't get something I thought I deserved, I am tempted to discuss the time I was pulled over for speeding and not given a ticket. It's probably not what the prompt is looking for (more like awards and stuff), but it is something that sticks out in my mind and is a different way to approach it. I would discuss how we all think we deserve accolades but often forget the times we are given grace. Is this a subject I should discuss? I figure most people have experience with getting pulled over at least once, but then again, this may rub someone the wrong way.

Too much "spin."

 

[MusicDOc124]

Take @D-VT's advice on that one. Your speeding ticket example demonstrates poor judgement - either you were knowingly breaking the law, not paying attention, or distracted driving. Translate that to being on surgery rounds... However, the concept is great, and I kind of like D-VTs example - doesn't involve breaking a law or any sort of endangerment/carelessness.

 

[DBC03]

Thanks for the input! I'll think through this some more. I have thought of one more example that is probably along the lines of the question (getting around an 85% in physics and thinking I had a B only to find out that the class was curved and I received a C, instead). But I'll see if I can come up with some other ideas.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile

 

[cactusman]

Here's a twist to this prompt, my own example FWIW.

In English 101, I got an A after writing the 10 page paper the night before. I deserved a C or lower because the paper, in my opinion, sucked, but got the A. After much thought, I talked to the prof and convinced him to change the grade to a C. Upon self reflection, I learned that I got away with something that I shouldn't have by submitting an inferior assignment because of my procrastination. For the rest of the semester, I learned not to procrastinate on all subsequent assignments.

That example would kind of display poor judgement and excess idealism to me. The applicant has no way of knowing that their competitors would have received a C for the same work and a single inflated grade is not really an unfair advantage. He could have discussed areas of improvement with the professor and held himself to his own standards without hurting his chances.

 

[Kingsmen2018]

The speeding one is 100% fake news lets be real, you were so okay with not getting a ticket

 

[SpoiledMilk]

How about something in your employment history? (e.g. A colleague was mistakenly reprimanded by a superior or customer and you felt you should have gotten the brunt of the criticism and how you ameliorated it by speaking up or empathizing with the colleague and making them feel better, etc.)

 

[gyngyn]

How about something in your employment history? (e.g. A colleague was mistakenly reprimanded by a superior or customer and you felt you should have gotten the brunt of the criticism and how you ameliorated it by speaking up or empathizing with the colleague and making them feel better, etc.)

Too much spin.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

That example would kind of display poor judgement and excess idealism to me. The applicant has no way of knowing that their competitors would have received a C for the same work and a single inflated grade is not really an unfair advantage. He could have discussed areas of improvement with the professor and held himself to his own standards without hurting his chances.

It's English 101, a freshman course. I would hope that after 4 years of college and perhaps gap year(s) employment that growth, maturity, and realism would replace freshman/youthful idealism.

 

[cactusman]

It's English 101, a freshman course. I would hope that after 4 years of college and perhaps gap year(s) employment that growth, maturity, and realism would replace freshman/youthful idealism.

True but I don't think the prompt wants an explanation of a time you handled a situation poorly and how you've grown since then. It wants you to explain how the situation itself helped you to grow or how you demonstrated your maturity at the time.

 

[DBC03]

Another example is that my parents did not want me to apply to my undergraduate institution. We eventually came to an agreement that I could apply if I agreed to pay their loans. When I first graduated and starting paying off their loans, I felt I deserved to have them pay the loans off instead of me because they had the money and were simply choosing not to pay the loans (they owned a second house, a yacht, etc. etc.). But I realized that I had agreed to those terms and willingly gone to an expensive private school when I could have gone tuition-free to a state school, and I learned the value of money in a way that I would have never learned if everything had been handed to me when I was growing up.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I felt I deserved to have them pay the loans off instead of me because they had the money

Hmmmm. I don't know. Perhaps you will get a student Adcom who worked all through college and still have student loans that they are paying off. Just think about all how this might come off. Ultimately, do what you think is best.

 

[DBC03]

Hmmmm. I don't know. Perhaps you will get a student Adcom who worked all through college and still have student loans that they are paying off. Just think about all how this might come off. Ultimately, do what you think is best.

Yeah - it seems like there is no easy way to answer this question. I should add that it took a full 10 years to pay it off, and it was over $100k when it was all over (add my husband's $40k to that as well). My response above is kind of like how I feel when I see all the "kids" (I'm in my mid-30s) talking about how the government should pay off their loans. You chose to take them out, you pay them off. It was a tough lesson I learned over 10 years, but worthwhile.

I have one more idea, but I still don't think this answers the questions properly. I guess I'm stumped on this one.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Here's a twist to this prompt, my own example FWIW.

In English 101, I got an A after writing the 10 page paper the night before. I deserved a C or lower because the paper, in my opinion, sucked, but got the A. After much thought, I talked to the prof and convinced him to change the grade to a C. Upon self reflection, I learned that I got away with something that I shouldn't have by submitting an inferior assignment because of my procrastination. For the rest of the semester, I learned not to procrastinate on all subsequent assignments.

This is why people hate premeds

 

[SpoiledMilk]

More like youth is wasted on the young.

 

[Goro]

In response to a prompt about when I didn't get something I thought I deserved, I am tempted to discuss the time I was pulled over for speeding and not given a ticket. It's probably not what the prompt is looking for (more like awards and stuff), but it is something that sticks out in my mind and is a different way to approach it. I would discuss how we all think we deserve accolades but often forget the times we are given grace. Is this a subject I should discuss? I figure most people have experience with getting pulled over at least once, but then again, this may rub someone the wrong way.

Two other options might include not graduating with honors because I was literally 0.01 GPA points below the cutoff or not receiving an award I was nominated for this year because my GPA was too low (when I transferred for a post-bac, they averaged in my GPA from an Ivy undergrad, so it was below the cutoff). Otherwise, I'm the type of person who doesn't expect to be rewarded and am more surprised when I am.

Thoughts?

#1 ...no
#2...better, but has the potential to backfire. I'm worried that you'd come off as a grade grubber.
#3...I like

 

[DBC03]

Thanks for all of the help on this. I have written down quite a few ideas, crossed some off, written a few different responses, etc. I'm also going through other applications and seeing if there are aspects of my past that I really want to emphasize and if they would fit in this spot. We'll see if I can come up with something worthwhile (since I have plenty of responses, but not so many that are good).

 

[DBC03]

OK, so I have what I think might be a relatively reasonable idea for this ("Describe a situation in which you didn’t get something you felt you deserved.")

I volunteered at the hospital doing patient rounding and have had more than a few experiences where the patients were extremely disrespectful. I thought it might be relevant to discuss feeling like I deserved respect, yet didn't get that in XYZ situation, then discuss how I dealt with it. I think it ties in with medical care because there will be plenty more occasions where I won't get respect as a healthcare provider and I will need to be prepared to handle with those situations with grace regardless.

@Goro @gyngyn - is this an appropriate way to approach this question without too much spin?

 

[Mad Jack]

Eh, mine was about the time I got a C+ because I was a slacker, and at first I was frustrated, but with time I realized that it was truly the grade I deserved. That one C+ really impacted my ability to apply for certain educational programs (many required a B or better for consideration in this particular course) so I was pretty burned by it at the time. Ultimately I learned to never, ever slack again, and that's probably why I had no grade lower than an A- in my prerequisite medical school coursework and a 4.0 for my last two years once I transferred to a university. Failure is great if you learn from it.

 

[DBC03]

Eh, mine was about the time I got a C+ because I was a slacker, and at first I was frustrated, but with time I realized that it was truly the grade I deserved. That one C+ really impacted my ability to apply for certain educational programs (many required a B or better for consideration in this particular course) so I was pretty burned by it at the time. Ultimately I learned to never, ever slack again, and that's probably why I had no grade lower than an A- in my prerequisite medical school coursework and a 4.0 for my last two years once I transferred to a university. Failure is great if you learn from it.

Part of my PS was about failure and redemption, so I don't think I want to repeat that on this question (you learn a lot from Cs and Ds two semesters in a row). I did consider talking about how I didn't feel I deserved certain grades because I did really well in the class, but later found out it was curved to a standard curve. But then I just sound like I'm complaining.

 

[calivianya]

OK, so I have what I think might be a relatively reasonable idea for this ("Describe a situation in which you didn’t get something you felt you deserved.")

I volunteered at the hospital doing patient rounding and have had more than a few experiences where the patients were extremely disrespectful. I thought it might be relevant to discuss feeling like I deserved respect, yet didn't get that in XYZ situation, then discuss how I dealt with it. I think it ties in with medical care because there will be plenty more occasions where I won't get respect as a healthcare provider and I will need to be prepared to handle with those situations with grace regardless.

@Goro @gyngyn - is this an appropriate way to approach this question without too much spin?

I don't know about anyone else, but I would think you are totally full of yourself if you wrote that. You were just volunteering, right? It's not like you singlehandedly decompressed the patient's tension pneumo and saved his life and then he was ungrateful. What did you do exactly that deserved respect from the patient? Just being in the room and gracing the patient with your presence?

I think if you're going to use that, you need to have gone way out of your way to have done something awesome for the patient.

 

[DBC03]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would think you are totally full of yourself if you wrote that. You were just volunteering, right? It's not like you singlehandedly decompressed the patient's tension pneumo and saved his life and then he was ungrateful. What did you do exactly that deserved respect from the patient? Just being in the room and gracing the patient with your presence?

I think if you're going to use that, you need to have gone way out of your way to have done something awesome for the patient.

Let's just say it was along the lines of sexual harassment disrespectful. The main example I'm thinking of was something extremely disrespectful the patient said in the midst of a conversation that had nothing to do with my volunteering or his position as a patient. This could have been any conversation in any place, it just happened to be while volunteering. I was taken aback because I have always thought people should be treated with simple respect. I'm hesitant to go into some details and couch it in terms of sexual harassment as it could be a touchy subject.

I guess I believe that everyone should be treated with a certain level of respect and when someone goes out of his way to say something that's THAT disrespectful, it can be jarring.

I have had similar experiences at work. I was nine years into my position as a civil engineer and volunteered for a project after a coworker left. I had to diffuse what could have been a really negative meeting with a client, and the meeting ended up going much better than we expected. On the way back to the office, my coworker told me that the clients listened to me because I was a girl. Not because I, say, had been doing this for nine years or had actually come up with a good solution to the problem or because I was very professional or had given a nice presentation. It was just because I was a girl. It's hard to talk about these things because I'm really not the type of person who complains about sexual harassment, and I've had very few experiences with it. But it is really jarring when it happens.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I have had similar experiences at work. I was nine years into my position as a civil engineer and volunteered for a project after a coworker left. I had to diffuse what could have been a really negative meeting with a client, and the meeting ended up going much better than we expected. On the way back to the office, my coworker told me that the clients listened to me because I was a girl. Not because I, say, had been doing this for nine years or had actually come up with a good solution to the problem or because I was very professional or had given a nice presentation. It was just because I was a girl. It's hard to talk about these things because I'm really not the type of person who complains about sexual harassment, and I've had very few experiences with it. But it is really jarring when it happens.

This!

 

[DBC03]

So what I'm hearing is I can't spin the question to talk about not getting punishment I deserved, I shouldn't talk about getting a good grade when I thought I deserved a bad grade, I shouldn't talk about getting a bad grade when I thought I deserved a good one, I shouldn't discuss a time when I felt entitled to something and then became more mature and realized entitlement was dumb, and I shouldn't discuss feeling like I should be treated with respect. This seems unanswerable.

 

[DBC03]

This!

Thanks for the input - I'm a little hesitant on how to discuss this without throwing the coworker under the bus and without sounding entitled. I'm fairly good at story-telling, so I'll do my best on a draft today.

 

[calivianya]

Well, all I have to say about patients and respect is that patients are people, and people are jerks. Working in healthcare for several years now, I'm always surprised when I have normal, respectful people - because everyone else *is* that bad. IMO, thinking you are going to get respect just makes you seem inexperienced. People are at their worst in hospitals, and people at their worst aren't very nice.

I've seen a patient break my coworker's spine (literally - coworker I was thinking about just had broken cervical vertebrae and was lucky not to end up paralyzed) and I've been physically attacked by patients. I've seen many (>5 times) that someone who knew they were HIV/Hep C/some other bloodborne illness positive deliberately stabbed healthcare personnel with dirty needles. I've seen coworkers get attacked by patient family members. I've had family members get so up in my face I thought they were going to hit me, but it hasn't happened yet. I've watched patient family members attack each other in the waiting room. We had an active shooter event recently where the SWAT team or whatever in the armored vests were hunting down a gunman, which was super annoying because I was in the middle of transporting someone for a stat head CT and I had to turn around and go back to the room. It goes way beyond not nice and to physical violence sometimes. Sad to say, but it's a good day when all they do is disrespect you... being disrespected doesn't land me in the OR for emergency surgery, you know?

I have had similar experiences at work. I was nine years into my position as a civil engineer and volunteered for a project after a coworker left. I had to diffuse what could have been a really negative meeting with a client, and the meeting ended up going much better than we expected. On the way back to the office, my coworker told me that the clients listened to me because I was a girl. Not because I, say, had been doing this for nine years or had actually come up with a good solution to the problem or because I was very professional or had given a nice presentation. It was just because I was a girl. It's hard to talk about these things because I'm really not the type of person who complains about sexual harassment, and I've had very few experiences with it. But it is really jarring when it happens.

I agree that this story is great. You should use this one. I actually have a similar story if I come across this prompt - a time where I got passed over for an opportunity with more experience than the other person, a higher degree than the other person, and a specialty certification the other person didn't have... but the other person was male, and I strongly suggest that's why I wasn't offered it and he was. I agree with you that this kind of behavior sucks, but it does still exist out there.

 

[DBC03]

Well, all I have to say about patients and respect is that patients are people, and people are jerks. Working in healthcare for several years now, I'm always surprised when I have normal, respectful people - because everyone else *is* that bad. IMO, thinking you are going to get respect just makes you seem inexperienced. People are at their worst in hospitals, and people at their worst aren't very nice.

I've seen a patient break my coworker's spine (literally - coworker I was thinking about just had broken cervical vertebrae and was lucky not to end up paralyzed) and I've been physically attacked by patients. I've seen many (>5 times) that someone who knew they were HIV/Hep C/some other bloodborne illness positive deliberately stabbed healthcare personnel with dirty needles. I've seen coworkers get attacked by patient family members. I've had family members get so up in my face I thought they were going to hit me, but it hasn't happened yet. I've watched patient family members attack each other in the waiting room. We had an active shooter event recently where the SWAT team or whatever in the armored vests were hunting down a gunman, which was super annoying because I was in the middle of transporting someone for a stat head CT and I had to turn around and go back to the room. It goes way beyond not nice and to physical violence sometimes. Sad to say, but it's a good day when all they do is disrespect you... being disrespected doesn't land me in the OR for emergency surgery, you know?



I agree that this story is great. You should use this one. I actually have a similar story if I come across this prompt - a time where I got passed over for an opportunity with more experience than the other person, a higher degree than the other person, and a specialty certification the other person didn't have... but the other person was male, and I strongly suggest that's why I wasn't offered it and he was. I agree with you that this kind of behavior sucks, but it does still exist out there.

After volunteering at the hospital for just one year, I have to agree with you. I was talking with a girl who worked as a CNA and we both agreed that they get treated the absolute worst. And, let's face it, there are few jobs I can think of that would be less enjoyable than what they do! Actually, I was almost revered as a volunteer compared to the treatment I saw of the CNAs and the nurses.

One thing I noticed is that I would ask patients how their care had been, if the nurses and techs were taking care of them, etc., and they would wax poetic about how absolutely wonderful everyone was and then they would even name each tech who was wonderful. Then I'd see a tech go in to see one of the patients and the patient would yell at her. It was ridiculous. So apparently the patients really appreciate their care, but they treat people terribly...

 

[calivianya]

After volunteering at the hospital for just one year, I have to agree with you. I was talking with a girl who worked as a CNA and we both agreed that they get treated the absolute worst. And, let's face it, there are few jobs I can think of that would be less enjoyable than what they do! Actually, I was almost revered as a volunteer compared to the treatment I saw of the CNAs and the nurses.

One thing I noticed is that I would ask patients how their care had been, if the nurses and techs were taking care of them, etc., and they would wax poetic about how absolutely wonderful everyone was and then they would even name each tech who was wonderful. Then I'd see a tech go in to see one of the patients and the patient would yell at her. It was ridiculous. So apparently the patients really appreciate their care, but they treat people terribly...

I've seen this behavior, too. It's extremely annoying. If you appreciate me, please just act like you appreciate me or just say thank you, at least. Dealing with being yelled at even when I'm appreciated is just tiring. I'm tired of people.

 

[jm192]

True but I don't think the prompt wants an explanation of a time you handled a situation poorly and how you've grown since then. It wants you to explain how the situation itself helped you to grow or how you demonstrated your maturity at the time.

I disagree.

Med School and residency have a way of making you feel crapped on. While growth is important, I really do want to know if you can grin and bear it or if you're going to tell off your senior resident.

I followed a laboring patient into the wee hours of the night. She finally delivers. I wasn't "on." As I'm gathering my things, a resident sees me and asks if I can do the admission for 714.

In my head: Hell no.
My mouth: Sure man, Can I help with the delivery.

Spoiler: didn't go into OB.

To me, the queston is "How do you handle being crapped on?" Not so much because medical school will mistreat you, but because at times, you will feel things are unfair--and when you're sleepy and things are unfair, you can get pretty pissy.

 

[WingedOx]

OK, so I have what I think might be a relatively reasonable idea for this ("Describe a situation in which you didn’t get something you felt you deserved.")

I volunteered at the hospital doing patient rounding and have had more than a few experiences where the patients were extremely disrespectful. I thought it might be relevant to discuss feeling like I deserved respect, yet didn't get that in XYZ situation, then discuss how I dealt with it. I think it ties in with medical care because there will be plenty more occasions where I won't get respect as a healthcare provider and I will need to be prepared to handle with those situations with grace regardless.

@Goro @gyngyn - is this an appropriate way to approach this question without too much spin?

I actually kind of like this idea (assuming you can write well). Mainly because it's something that you gotta get used to in this field.

Way better than being mad at your parents for not paying for you, that's for sure.

 

[xochitl]

The speeding one is 100% fake news lets be real, you were so okay with not getting a ticket

56 primaries???? you are so not okay with not getting into med school

 

[Toutie]

56 primaries???? you are so not okay with not getting into medschool

Not just 56 MD primaries...don't forget the 6 DO ones!

Someone has a hell of a lot of extra money to spend and must REALLY like writing secondaries. smh...

 

[Kingsmen2018]

Not just 56 MD primaries...don't forget the 6 DO ones!

Someone has a hell of a lot of extra money to spend and must REALLY like writing secondaries. smh...

Correct. Sure maybe I shouldn't have applied to that many. But hey I have the money and the time to do secondaries so leave me alone lol

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Correct. Sure maybe I shouldn't have applied to that many. But hey I have the money and the time to do secondaries so leave me alone lol

Must be nice... Papa John's $$$$

 

[LnSin]

I never understood the point of this question; surely there is a way to word it where it's possible to not look entitled in some fashion? I mean the word "deserve," like what could we as ~20 year old premeds honest to god deserve other than life liberty and the pursuit of happiness?? I feel like there is always a way to spin your story to come off as entitled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk