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DoctorsWife

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I realized that my husband would probably be very upset with me if someone he knows sees this & I included enough info that he could be identified... so I want to let it roll off... thanks so much for your advice, I have printed it out to refer to. 🙂
 
First, make sure he never reads SDN ever.

Does he really want to go to medical school? Most people would say that if someone has to be convinced to apply, then maybe they really shouldn't be.

If it is solely his pessimism over early stumbling then I can understand. However there are plently of people who make up for early problems and less-than stellar MCATs with meaningful experiences and well-developed outlooks on life - I think that's the definition of a non-trad! If he is clear to point out that he improved substantially in class work and successfully completed a productive PhD with a good GPA, I think that more than makes up for early problems.

Is this really the only reason he's been putting off applying? Has he felt any pressure from his father or mentor to follow this path, and maybe hasn't thought alot about it himself?
 
DoctorsWife said:
I guess my husband is a non-traditional applicant. He went to an undergrad university at age 18 and pretty much failed out. He was there less than a year. He then moved back home and went to another University, doing very well there & getting a BS in Environmental Science. He graduated with honors.

He then decided he wanted to go to medical school, & completed a premedical certificate program (evidently it's a common thing to do here when your undergrad career isn't impressive enough on its own). He did well in one semester of that program & not so well the 2nd... including a C in an important course.

He decided to get even more education in before applying, and is now finishing up his PhD in physiology at age 27. He has done quite well (not sure of exact GPA but probably around 3.5ish). He got a 29 on his MCAT, including a 12 on the Bio section. All of his professors like him very much, including one close family friend who has been his mentor through the whole journey. He has been a teaching assistant & tutor for several classes. He has been published on several articles & attended the AHA conference w/ his lab this past November. His father is a well-known & liked phsyician and he has spent much time in his office as well.

His dream is to get into medical school, but he's stressed about not getting in & seems to put things off to avoid the final judgement day (know what I mean?). I want to help him!! I want him to get his applications finished to submit in June when AMCAS opens, but he seems reluctant to get things started.

Does acceptance sound feasible for him? Is there anything I can do to help? Oh, and is there anything he can do to downplay the awful first year in college that he had?

I'm feeling quite helpless... any advice?
Thanks.

Sounds like he has a shot at allo but should apply really broadly, if that's a possibility. The things that will weigh against him are a low undergrad GPA (the graduate work doesn't count toward this, the less than stellar postbac will), and what is likely an unbalanced, somewhat low MCAT. Was the MCAT consistant with his practice scores, or lower (in which case he might consider a retake). An early application with a strong PS and strong LORs should give him a shot. Some clinical and volunteering experience would be a good idea too if he doesn't have these.
 
DoctorsWife said:
I guess my husband is a non-traditional applicant. He went to an undergrad university at age 18 and pretty much failed out. He was there less than a year. He then moved back home and went to another University, doing very well there & getting a BS in Environmental Science. He graduated with honors.

He then decided he wanted to go to medical school, & completed a premedical certificate program (evidently it's a common thing to do here when your undergrad career isn't impressive enough on its own). He did well in one semester of that program & not so well the 2nd... including a C in an important course.

He decided to get even more education in before applying, and is now finishing up his PhD in physiology at age 27. He has done quite well (not sure of exact GPA but probably around 3.5ish). He got a 29 on his MCAT, including a 12 on the Bio section. All of his professors like him very much, including one close family friend who has been his mentor through the whole journey. He has been a teaching assistant & tutor for several classes. He has been published on several articles & attended the AHA conference w/ his lab this past November. His father is a well-known & liked phsyician and he has spent much time in his office as well.

His dream is to get into medical school, but he's stressed about not getting in & seems to put things off to avoid the final judgement day (know what I mean?). I want to help him!! I want him to get his applications finished to submit in June when AMCAS opens, but he seems reluctant to get things started.

Does acceptance sound feasible for him? Is there anything I can do to help? Oh, and is there anything he can do to downplay the awful first year in college that he had?

I'm feeling quite helpless... any advice?
Thanks.


He is in- If he is at a 3.5ish with a PHD. He is in. no worries
 
DoctorsWife said:
Does acceptance sound feasible for him? Is there anything I can do to help? Oh, and is there anything he can do to downplay the awful first year in college that he had?

I'm feeling quite helpless... any advice?
Thanks.

His stats honestly don't sound too terrible. His catastrophic year of undergrad was 9 years ago and he's managed to get a PhD since then, so he could talk about (in his personal statement) how he learned a lot from that experience and went on to improve. It sounds like he's actually been pretty academically successful. He won't get into a top program, but he definitely has a shot at some allopathic med schools (and he should look at the osteopathic schools too) based on his coursework.

What worries me is his MCAT score. He got a 29 overall, but with a 12 in biology. That means that he got an average of 8.5 in the other sections. If he got an 8 and a 9 that might not be too bad, but what was his breakdown? A sub-30 MCAT score with an 8 (or lower in one section) won't help him out very much. He should definitely look at your state allopathic schools (unless you're in CA or WA or another one of the super-competitve states), some of the other less-competitive allopathic schools, and some osteopathic schools. Just be sure that he writes a great personal statement, good essays for his secondary, gets great rec letters, and has adequate clinical experience (shadowing). If he doesn't get in this round, retake the MCAT. I hope that helps.
 
I'd say he's got a shot.

There are schools out there that are very friendly to non-trads, you just have to find them. In the meantime he should get LORs from every professor he can from his post-grad education and PhD experiences.
 
First off, he won't know if his stats are good until he applies. Although better stats gives you a higher chance of getting, it most likely does not guarantee it.

The problem I see with this picture is his low undergrad(UG) GPA. If it is below 3.0 then he may be screened out of the application process by schools that have some pre-set GPA criteria, regardless of having a PhD degree. UG GPA is weighted more than any graduate GPA. Although it is a tremendous acheivement to get a PhD, the UG stuff is emphasized because the vast majority of applications only have UG GPA's. However the PhD is a very positive thing, and can only help him. To what extent, I do not know.

His MCAT is getting there, but as a non-traditional student, I would suggest he get it higher. At least past 30, but hopefully in the 35 range. Adcoms will be concerned about his ability to do basic sciences (e.g.: physics, chemistry, etc). Although he got a 12 on the bio section that would suggest he got something lower on the other two sections. Verbal reasoning is probably the most important since med schools can always teach you science, but verbal reasoning is something you have to teach yourself.

His publications are commendable, and will play a positive role, however again, UG GPA will be dominant over any research experience, or any other extracurrricular for that matter. His father being a well known physician is good, but again, does not play a dominant role. My major professor, faculty at our med school is an internationally known expert in his field, but that has no bearing on me getting into our medical school. Why? Because admission is based on a committee, and 99.999% of the time, knowing someone (including knowing the dean) does not equal getting into med school. Plus, most med school faculty are pretty much experts in their fields anyway, so relatively speaking, they are a dime a dozen.

I hope this didn't come off as too negative. His application is good based on his PhD program, and extracurriculars. His MCAT is ok, but can be better. What will hurt is his UG grades. Adcoms may be a tad more forgiving since it was sometime ago, but who knows? It depends on who looks at his application.

I am currently a PhD student as well, and also have a low undergrad GPA. Our med school admissions director has told me to take undergrad classes even as a PhD student to continue to boost my UG GPA. Thats how important UG GPA is in the eyes of our school. My school treats MCAT/undergrad GPA equally (like many schools), so doing good in one, may not make up for deficiencies in the other. I have a 36S on my MCAT, despite that, I am still taking UG electives while finishing my graduate requirements. I am planning to take UG classes while doing my thesis too. Will be a crappy few years, but thats what it will take. I hope that makes it clear. Again I don't want to discourage your husband from applying, but I must emphasize that he can make his application better. You really only apply once...its a very demanding ordeal. There are others in these forums who have applied successfully post-PhD as well. So i'm sure they will chime in shortly and provide better insight.
 
gdbaby has a PhD and a GPA similar. she got several acceptances, including her state school (which is very hard to get an acceptance to). Look for her posts - she has an mdapplicants profile as well. She's also quite awesome to talk with.
 
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