Illinois passes bill allowing psychologists to prescribe medications

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michaelrack said:
Opening more residency programs is the key to fixing any shortages.
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Yep, meant that. Apologize for the juvenile rant. Just dismayed about the probable future.
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slickster032 said:
Your analogy about pharmacy techs assuming the role of pharmacists is closer to MAs being able to write scripts in our world. Nurse practitioners are not simple ancillary staff with little training or experience; they are highly trained clinicians (albeit not as much doctors), as would be PhD psychologists with advanced training in psychotropic pharmacology. As we gain further understanding of the complexities of the mind and as advancements in psychopharmacology continue, I have no doubt there will always be more than enough work for psychiatrists even if psychologists gain the ability to prescribe.
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Well as long as YOU have no doubt, I guess the industry should rest easy.
 
slickster032 said:
Your analogy about pharmacy techs assuming the role of pharmacists is closer to MAs being able to write scripts in our world. Nurse practitioners are not simple ancillary staff with little training or experience; they are highly trained clinicians (albeit not as much doctors), as would be PhD psychologists with advanced training in psychotropic pharmacology. As we gain further understanding of the complexities of the mind and as advancements in psychopharmacology continue, I have no doubt there will always be more than enough work for psychiatrists even if psychologists gain the ability to prescribe.
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I' m trying to point out to you , in your opinion, you are ok to allow those with inadequate training to perform full responsiblity of a professionals which could be a psychiatrists or a pilot or dentist...etc.
I respect the training that phds in psychology recevied and they are good at psychotherapy or psychoanaylsis but not in medicine. When they prescribe psych. meds,especially those with serious side effects or interact with medical problems , they will need to know how to interpret labs data, EKG,, differentiate if those meds cause or worsen any medical problems..etc These definitely can't be learned from 1-2 yrs courses, these requires applications of learned knowledge thru out medical schools and residency training that a pHD in psychology don't have.
prescribing medications is not simply prescribing , it takes more than that.
 
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benjee said:
I' m trying to point out to you , in your opinion, you are ok to allow those with inadequate training to perform full responsiblity of a professionals which could be a psychiatrists or a pilot or dentist...etc.
I respect the training that phds in psychology recevied and they are good at psychotherapy or psychoanaylsis but not in medicine. When they prescribe psych. meds,especially those with serious side effects or interact with medical problems , they will need to know how to interpret labs data, EKG,, differentiate if those meds cause or worsen any medical problems..etc These definitely can't be learned from 1-2 yrs courses, these requires applications of learned knowledge thru out medical schools and residency training that a pHD in psychology don't have.
prescribing medications is not simply prescribing , it takes more than that.
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PA programs...online NP programs....?
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
PA programs...online NP programs....?
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Well, many of us think all of those short cuts should be prohibitive of independent/non-team-based care.

You seem to make this point consistently as if to say that because people are eating a pure pizza diet they should also be eating papaya dogs. Why you make it to us is strange. That should be your argument to numbnut politicians or patients who don't know the difference.

Also this argument for less training being nifty for specialized practice such as psych displays ignorance in the way people present. Like people who need refills and psychotherapy don't ever need to be evaluated for undifferentiated AMS.
 
AnnoyedByFreud said:
... aren't a significant number of the prescribing psychologist programs online as well?
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These online arguments are strange also. I could've done my entire first 2 years of medical school online and been better off. What can't be replicated is clinical hours in residency. The fundamentals help in clincal reasoning but that could be abated with caution.

What I increasingly see from all of your respective camps. Is inculcation of values that say you are equivalent. Just as good. Better. All without a residency. Which is also saying that we're the biggest fools on earth to waste our time and money and life doing it. When we could've done some online courses, skated by on some fake-@ss clincals and badaboom...pay me mf'er. Seein patients.

You're all in that same ratchet clinical category. To see some infighting would be kind of off night satisfying. Like an episode of jersey shore, just to keep my confidence in what I'm doing up. Carry on.
 
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nitemagi said:
Well as long as YOU have no doubt, I guess the industry should rest easy.
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Industry? I don't consider my profession an 'industry'. We are doctors, first and foremost. Our obligation is to our patients and their interests.
 
JourneyAgent said:
Well, many of us think all of those short cuts should be prohibitive of independent/non-team-based care.

You seem to make this point consistently as if to say that because people are eating a pure pizza diet they should also be eating papaya dogs. Why you make it to us is strange. That should be your argument to numbnut politicians or patients who don't know the difference.

Also this argument for less training being nifty for specialized practice such as psych displays ignorance in the way people present. Like people who need refills and psychotherapy don't ever need to be evaluated for undifferentiated AMS.
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First you might want to graduate medical school and make it through residency before pulling out the "ignorance in the way people present" card. :rolleyes: I actually give an entire lecture on causes and evaluation of AMS. Before my next Grand Rounds on it maybe I can PM you to make sure I'm doing it right....? :laugh:
 
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It looks JourneyAgent may first to first return to elementary school and learn syntax and grammar!
 
JourneyAgent said:
These online arguments are strange also. I could've done my entire first 2 years of medical school online and been better off. What can't be replicated is clinical hours in residency. The fundamentals help in clincal reasoning but that could be abated with caution.

What I increasingly see from all of your respective camps. Is inculcation of values that say you are equivalent. Just as good. Better. All without a residency. Which is also saying that we're the biggest fools on earth to waste our time and money and life doing it. When we could've done some online courses, skated by on some fake-@ss clincals and badaboom...pay me mf'er. Seein patients.

You're all in that same ratchet clinical category. To see some infighting would be kind of off night satisfying. Like an episode of jersey shore, just to keep my confidence in what I'm doing up. Carry on.
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Woah. Is it just me or does this post make absolutely no sense? Maybe it's my faulty nursing reasoning. ;)
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
First you might want to graduate medical school and make it through residency before pulling out the "ignorance in the way people present" card. :rolleyes: I actually give an entire lecture on causes and evaluation of AMS. Before my next Grand Rounds on it maybe I can PM you to make sure I'm doing it right....? :laugh:
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Please do. I'd love to see your work. As far as plowing ahead through the years of training...unlike you all....I don't have a choice.

As to my liberal use of syntax to express my speaking voice. You know exactly what I mean. It's that your no residency having selves doesn't have anything to to say about the frivolous lack of one in your clinical education. You're not confused at all about what I mean.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
PA programs...online NP programs....?
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Basically , I'm against these mid-levels to practice medicine independently due to the reason I mentioned before . However,I stay neutral if they are supervised by MDs. Like a pharm tech supervised by a reg. pharmacist or a pilot supervise a pilot assistant .
Alot of times, prescribing meds is not perceived as part of practicing medicine which is a big misconception by non-MDs.
When the bill passed allowing psychologists or NP or PA to practice medicine independently, I would suspect if there is any corruption or bribery going on and I am not surprised if it does .
 
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Additionally therapist4change,

I'm not saying you're not a smarty mcsmartypants. In the tired affairs of residents and wards having a bright person willing to do teaching is a powerful asset to anyone. Otherwise they'd have to do it.

But you're exceptional ploom of peacock feathers is not the point. The point is what are clinicians who haven't trained by taking care of lots and lots of patients under concentrically widening circles of responsibility.

What they are is suspect. And the only way to make them legit is to keep training with us. I don't mind the clever bait and switch as I mind seeing the dangerous hubris of all of your graduates. My mother is an NP who was a nurse for 25 years before she started training and is humble and cautious about what she doesn't know. These new grads are not even scared. And that's scary.

You think I'm cocky? Please...I know I suck. That's the difference. We get raised to know that.

If you think forgoing residency is a swell idea say so. I know you don't. And I already know your resume so there's no need to whip it out all the time.
 
JourneyAgent said:
Additionally therapist4change,

I'm not saying you're not a smarty mcsmartypants. In the tired affairs of residents and wards having a bright person willing to do teaching is a powerful asset to anyone. Otherwise they'd have to do it.

But you're exceptional ploom of peacock feathers is not the point. The point is what are clinicians who haven't trained by taking care of lots and lots of patients under concentrically widening circles of responsibility.

What they are is suspect. And the only way to make them legit is to keep training with us. I don't mind the clever bait and switch as I mind seeing the dangerous hubris of all of your graduates. My mother is an NP who was a nurse for 25 years before she started training and is humble and cautious about what she doesn't know. These new grads are not even scared. And that's scary.

You think I'm cocky? Please...I know I suck. That's the difference. We get raised to know that.

If you think forgoing residency is a swell idea say so. I know you don't. And I already know your resume so there's no need to whip it out all the time.
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I agree with this. From what I've seen, many mid levels are more than happy to jump in with both feet and be 'doctors' until the crap hits the fan. Now don't get me wrong, some mid levels are great, but a big part of training is figuring out where your limits are, and many mid levels I've met do not know what they do not know. I do support a removal of independent practice rights for mid levels. It doesn't pass the family test. What would I want for a family member of mine.

And I still don't want psychologists practicing medicine.
 
heyjack70 said:
. I do support a removal of independent practice rights for mid levels. .
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A lot of you guys don't understand trends....supporting *less* practice rights for nps is about as practical in today's climate as rolling back civil rights or womens rights. The trend is going in the other direction. The question isn't will midlevels continue to expand in number of autonomy...it's to what degree they will. Talking about going the other direction is nonsensical.
 
JourneyAgent,

As I have previously mentioned, most of my concern involves:

1. Independent (no oversight whatsoever) practice by any non-MD/DO.
2. Variability of training standards for all pharmacology-based coursework (MD/DO, NP, PA, and Prescribing Psych).
3. All direct entry NP programs.
4. Any training that is mostly/all done online.

I don't like the current standards for prescribing psychologists and I have gone through the training (all of my classes were residentially based, not online). I do not have a dog in the race as I'm not looking to prescribe, nor do I live in a state where it is currently allowed.

JourneyAgent said:
I don't mind the clever bait and switch as I mind seeing the dangerous hubris of all of your graduates. My mother is an NP who was a nurse for 25 years before she started training and is humble and cautious about what she doesn't know. These new grads are not even scared. And that's scary.
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Really? If you speak to actual graduates of the MS pharma programs I don't think they give off a "dangerous hubris". If anything, I think they are much more aware of what can go wrong as compared to an NP that goes straight through (direct entry programs can req. as few as 6 month of practice as an RN).
 
vistaril said:
A lot of you guys don't understand trends....supporting *less* practice rights for nps is about as practical in today's climate as rolling back civil rights or womens rights. The trend is going in the other direction. The question isn't will midlevels continue to expand in number of autonomy...it's to what degree they will. Talking about going the other direction is nonsensical.
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That's a logical fallacy. Trends cannot predict the future. Try that logic with the stock market.

And the 'trend' does not alter the validity of my opinion.
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
JourneyAgent,

As I have previously mentioned, most of my concern involves:

1. Independent (no oversight whatsoever) practice by any non-MD/DO.
2. Variability of training standards for all pharmacology-based coursework (MD/DO, NP, PA, and Prescribing Psych).
3. All direct entry NP programs.
4. Any training that is mostly/all done online.

I don't like the current standards for prescribing psychologists and I have gone through the training (all of my classes were residentially based, not online). I do not have a dog in the race as I'm not looking to prescribe, nor do I live in a state where it is currently allowed.



Really? If you speak to actual graduates of the MS pharma programs I don't think they give off a "dangerous hubris". If anything, I think they are much more aware of what can go wrong as compared to an NP that goes straight through (direct entry programs can req. as few as 6 month of practice as an RN).
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Actually I'm generalizing quite a bit into has residency training or doesn't. Wants to write scripts without a residency or doesn't. Wants independent practice rights without a residency or doesn't. I'm more familiar with PA's and NP's. But I think there's a similar enough agenda that the generalization works in very rough approximation. The difference being I will actually benefit from collaboration with a new grad of your background because you all bring things to mental health practice that I have yet to learn. And will likely never approach your mastery of.

I would only say the same of an NP or PA if they were very experienced, very independent for a long time, and had a rigorous self-directed learning style. Like my mother, pretty much. So if you're as good and as experienced as her then your training no longer matters to me, unless we need a specialist and we're both in over our heads.
 
heyjack70 said:
That's a logical fallacy. Trends cannot predict the future. Try that logic with the stock market.

And the 'trend' does not alter the validity of my opinion.
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well maybe I used the wrong word...the point is that even the most anti-Np/pa person possible(more nps than pas in psych) can see that in the future they are going to be used more and have more responsibility in psych(and most of medicine)....
 
Craigz said:
Same with GPs giving SSRIs. Turf war, this, that all.
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GPs giving SSRIs doesn't really boost their income, does it? It seems more that medical schools, family medicine residencies, and our culture in general don't have a sense of respect for the fact that in mental health, a medication is usually a band-aid. It shouldn't be used as a first line of defense- some kind of therapy or skills training should be.
 
priorities2 said:
GPs giving SSRIs doesn't really boost their income, does it? It seems more that medical schools, family medicine residencies, and our culture in general don't have a sense of respect for the fact that in mental health, a medication is usually a band-aid. It shouldn't be used as a first line of defense- some kind of therapy or skills training should be.
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Well it depends. Someone with severe depression w/ psychotic features or acute mania is probably less likely to respond to therapy as a first line, but certainly would benefit from it as his/her mood stabilize. Certainly, I think more adjustment-related and/or behavioral problems could benefit from therapy as first line, but the issue is really not as black and white as you make it. Medications are not always band-aids but can be life-saving tools for many individuals suffering from severe, debilitating mental illness. The idea that mental illness can be cured simply from behavior modification has long since been refuted.

I don't know why these posts always devolve into therapy vs medication, psychology vs psychiatry debates. Both have their role and we should focus on how to utilize them together most effectively instead of debating which is superior.
 
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Thanks for the information regarding the actual legislation. So much like the NP/PA, the psychologists want to ride our malpractice and licenses????

Anyone looked at the letters to the editor in the April 2013 Current Psychiatry online?
 
We are so swamped here in Illinois I see the rationale, but it is a slippery slope.
 
Now the bill goes to the House.

The critical shortage of mental health professionals still exists, and will exist for a long time despite this bill.

"The proposal sponsored by Sen. Don Harmon (D-Oak Park) passed the Senate 37-10, with four members voting present. The legislation, Senate Bill 2187, now moves to the House.

"I used to oppose this bill. I am now the sponsor and am a firm believer this is a sensible way to provide access to mental health care to countless constituents who don't have it today," Harmon said.

Harmon said his legislation would address the "critical shortage of mental health professionals" that now exists in Illinois, giving patients in need of mental-health medication more avenues to safely acquire their drugs."
 
I just wanted to add that I don't think this bill will pass for the simple fact that the AMA won't allow it.
 
woops, meant Senate.

If I were betting I would definitely bet on this bill not passing. As I mentioned earlier, this bill comes out almost every year for the past 15 years.

The "providing aide to undeserved populations" argument is poppycock. We have empirical evidence showing that psychologists are not living in rural areas (Baird, 2007). Also, soon enough we will have a study showing that the other RxP states are not having an increase in rural prescribers either.

I am opposed to RxP and I especially would hate to see it in IL because of the sub par for-profit training programs.
 
Anyone got any data on the Louisiana and New Mexico psychologists, where they are located (underserved areas or not so underserved) and what they are prescribing?

I don't want the canned "there have been no complaints".

What does the data show?

Illinois? bribery? nah.
:naughty:
 
Leo Aquarius said:
Now the bill goes to the House.

The critical shortage of mental health professionals still exists, and will exist for a long time despite this bill.

"The proposal sponsored by Sen. Don Harmon (D-Oak Park) passed the Senate 37-10, with four members voting present. The legislation, Senate Bill 2187, now moves to the House.

"I used to oppose this bill. I am now the sponsor and am a firm believer this is a sensible way to provide access to mental health care to countless constituents who don't have it today," Harmon said.

Harmon said his legislation would address the "critical shortage of mental health professionals" that now exists in Illinois, giving patients in need of mental-health medication more avenues to safely acquire their drugs."
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The reason there are not enuf psychiatrists in Illinois is due the ridic malpractice cost in Illinois.

Decrease the malpractice rate (in the 20 G range) whereas adjoining states are a quarter of this cost, and more docs will come to IL.

Harmon knows this.

This is all political grandstanding as Harmon will be running for the president of the senate or some other high falutin position.
 
GroverPsychMD said:
Anyone got any data on the Louisiana and New Mexico psychologists, where they are located (underserved areas or not so underserved) and what they are prescribing?

I don't want the canned "there have been no complaints".

What does the data show?

Illinois? bribery? nah.
:naughty:
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Well according to:
http://nmpsychology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=9

There are 22 psychologists licensed in New Mexico.
6 live in a different state
5 live in Albuquerque
7 live in Las Cruces
 
All you psychiatrists, med students, psychologists who oppose this bill please contact these reps with letters or call them. From any state.

There are many ppl, including psychologists, testifying against this legislation.

List of Represenatives on the Health Care Licensing Committee
Michael J. Zalewski - (217) 782-5280 - [email protected]
Patrick J. Verschoore - (217) 782-5970 - [email protected]
Michael P. McAuliffe - (217) 782-8182 - [email protected]
Adam Brown - (217) 782-1517 - [email protected]
Kelly Burke - (217) 782-1117 - [email protected]
La Shawn K. Ford - (217) 782-5962 - [email protected]
Frances Ann Hurley - (217) 782-8200 - [email protected]
Renée Kosel - (217) 782-0424 - [email protected]
Brandon W. Phelps - (217) 782-5131 - [email protected]
Ron Sandack - (217) 782-6578 - [email protected]
 
nitemagi said:
Well according to:
http://nmpsychology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=9

There are 22 psychologists licensed in New Mexico.
6 live in a different state
5 live in Albuquerque
7 live in Las Cruces
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Thank you.
The Dept of Defense in Hawaii discontinued this program with psychologists due to the increased morbidity and mortality with psychologists prescribing.

In other military settings, PCP's may have been able to approve psychologists prescribing as the EMR was set up for daily communication. This will not be the same with the rights psychologists are trying to get now.

I am keeping in close touch with the Illinois State Medical Society, so everything helps.

The bill the way it is written RIGHT NOW, states psychologists could prescribe controlled substances, Lithium, antipsychotics also.
 
GroverPsychMD said:
Thank you.
The Dept of Defense in Hawaii discontinued this program with psychologists due to the increased morbidity and mortality with psychologists prescribing.

In other military settings, PCP's may have been able to approve psychologists prescribing as the EMR was set up for daily communication. This will not be the same with the rights psychologists are trying to get now.

I am keeping in close touch with the Illinois State Medical Society, so everything helps.

The bill the way it is written RIGHT NOW, states psychologists could prescribe controlled substances, Lithium, antipsychotics also.
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The DoD has NOT discontinued the psychologist prescribing program anywhere. In fact, the numbers of psychologist prescribing in the military is expanding. I am actually helping 3 more Department of Defense psychologists finish their requirements to prescribe right now. Two of these are very high ranking military personnel who have given me their word that they will also help more prescribing psychologists enter into the system
 
edieb said:
The DoD has NOT discontinued the psychologist prescribing program anywhere. In fact, the numbers of psychologist prescribing in the military is expanding. I am actually helping 3 more Department of Defense psychologists finish their requirements to prescribe right now. Two of these are very high ranking military personnel who have given me their word that they will also help more prescribing psychologists enter into the system
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excellent...I'd imagine progress is slow, but I really think 15 years from now there will be thousands upon thousands of prescribing psychologists all across the country
 
edieb said:
The DoD has NOT discontinued the psychologist prescribing program anywhere. In fact, the numbers of psychologist prescribing in the military is expanding. I am actually helping 3 more Department of Defense psychologists finish their requirements to prescribe right now. Two of these are very high ranking military personnel who have given me their word that they will also help more prescribing psychologists enter into the system
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The IL lobbyists are looking into this now.
Is prescribing within the military and different from psychologists prescribing without this immediate backup and EHR?
Can you extrapolate this to regular OP practice?
And the numbers and locations for psychologists in New Mexico is correct right? How does that work into access for care and all that jazz??
 
GroverPsychMD said:
Thank you.
The Dept of Defense in Hawaii discontinued this program with psychologists due to the increased morbidity and mortality with psychologists prescribing.
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Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png
 
This program was pushed by Pat Deleon, a Psychologist and legislative aide to Senator Daniel Inoue of Hawaii

Why dont you give me the citation that this is untrue?
 
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http://www.biomedsearch.com/article/Prescription-privileges-non-MDs-retrospective/233501754.html

VRI'S findings, however, quickly became overshadowed when Congress mandated another examination of the PDP. This time the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) was to conduct the examination. The GAO report (1997) concluded the PDP was too costly, reporting a total of $610,000 per PDP graduate (Sammons, Levant and Paige, 2003). The GAO (1997, 1999) concluded that prescribing psychologists were unnecessary to meet the medical readiness mission of the Military Health System. GAO contended that an existing oversupply of military psychiatrists made prescribing psychologists unnecessary. Sammons, Levant, and Paige (2003) suggest political underpinnings and methodological flaws with the GAO report and contend that there was, in fact, a well-documented shortage of psychiatrists within the U.S. Army, shortages which were reportedly communicated to the GAO team. Sammons, Levant, and Paige (2003) also contend estimates used by the GAO team "erroneously included expenditures for facilities and faculty that were already in place at USUHS regardless of whether PDP fellows attended classes there."
Nevertheless, on the basis of the GAO report, the Senate appropriations bill ceased subsequent enrollment of new fellows. Only existing fellows were allowed to continue with training; graduates of the PDP were allowed to practice as prescribing military psychologists.

Although the PDP has ceased, there were important lessons to be learned from the project. First, regarding safety and effectiveness of prescribing military psychologists; conclusions from both Vector Research, Inc. (1996) and U.S. General Accounting Office (1997) support the notion that psychologists can be trained to safely prescribe psychotropic medications.


Here's some of it.

They argue that research has "failed to find significant differences between psychologists and psychiatrists in their capabilities as therapists" (Brentar and McNamara, 1991).

Additional sources.

American Psychological Association (2002). New Mexico Governor signs landmark law on prescription privileges for psychologists. Monitor on Psychology. Retrieved September 7, 2003, from http://www.apa.org/practice/nm_rxp.html?CFID= 2689334&CFTOKEN=44122612

American Psychological Association (2004). Louisiana Becomes Second State to Enact Prescription Privileges Law for Psychologists. APA Online. Retrieved December 27, 2007, from http://www..apa.org/pi/ oema/july04_communique.pdf

Brentar, J. & McNamara, J.R. (1991). Prescription privileges for psychology: The next step in its evolution as a profession. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 22, 194-195.

Daly, R. (2006). Psychiatrists Proactive in Scope-of-Practice Battles. Psychiatric News, 2006 41: 17-34

Dawes, R. M. (1994). House of cards. New York: Free Press.

DeLeon, P.H., Folen, R. A., Jennings, F. L., Willis, D. J. & Wright, R. H. (1991). The case for prescription privileges: A Logical evolution of professional practice. Journal of Clinical Child Psychology, 20, 254-267.

DeLeon, P.H., Fox, R.E. & Graham, S.R. (1991). Prescription privileges psychology's next frontier? American Psychologist, 40(4), 384-393.

DeNelsky, G. Y. (1996). The case against prescription privileges for psychologists. American Psychologist, 51, 207-212.

DeNelsky, G. Y. (1991). Prescription privileges for psychologists: The case against. Professional Psychology: Research & Practice, 22, 188-193.

Follette, W. C., Houts, A. C. & Hayes, S. C. (1992). Behavior therapy and the new medical model. Behavioral Assessment, 14, 323-343.

Granoff, S.E. (1987). Psychology and the prescription of medicine: Health planning for the twenty-first century. Independent Practitioner, 7(1), 15-16.

Gutierrez, P.M. & Silk, K.R. (1998). Prescription privileges for psychologists: a review of the psychological literature. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 29(3), 213-222.

Hayes, S.C. & Heiby, E. (1996). Psychology's drug problem: do we need a fix or should we just say no? American Psychologist, 51(3), 198-206.

Lorion, R. P. (1996). Applying our medicine to the psychopharmacology debate. American Psychologist, 51, 219-224.

Moran, M. (1993, August 6). Payment calculations under health care reform indicate need for diverse practice. Psychiatric News, p. 4.

Newman, R. (2000). A psychological model for prescribing. Monitor on Psychology, 31, 45.

Sammons, M.T. & Brown, A.B. (1997). The deportment of defense psychopharmacology demonstration project: An evolving program for postdoctoral education in psychology. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 28, 107-112.

Sammons, M.T., Levant, R.F. & Paige, R.U. (2003). Prescriptive authority for psychologists. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

Sammons, M.T., & Schmidt, N.B. (2001). Combined treatments for mental disorders: A guide to psychological and pharmacological interventions. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

Seligman, M.E.P. (1995). The effectiveness of psychotherapy: The Consumer Reports study. American Psychologist, 50, 965-974.

U.S. General Accounting Office (1997). Defense health care: Need for more prescribing psychologists is not adequately justified (GAO/HEHS-o7-83). Washington, DC: Author.

Vector Research, Inc. (1996). Cost-effectiveness and feasibility of the DoD Psychopharmacology Demonstration Project: Final report. Arlington, VA: Author.

Wellerstein, R. S. (Ed.). (1991). The doctorate in mental health. Lanham, MD: University Press of America.

By Kolin A. Van Winkle, EdD, NCC, LPC, FAPA

Dr. Kolin A. Van Winkle, Fellow of the American Psychotherapy Association, is a Board Certified School Psychologist and Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC). He earned his doctoral degree in Counseling Psychology at the American School of Professional Psychology (Argosy University) in California. He served as the chief counseling psychologist for the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment Division in Ohio. Dr. Van Winkle is currently working in a private practice setting as a post-doctoral fellow.
 
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Just proved yourself a liar, my friend! No mention of killing anybody or increased morbidity anywhere.
 
edieb said:
The DoD has NOT discontinued the psychologist prescribing program anywhere. In fact, the numbers of psychologist prescribing in the military is expanding. I am actually helping 3 more Department of Defense psychologists finish their requirements to prescribe right now. Two of these are very high ranking military personnel who have given me their word that they will also help more prescribing psychologists enter into the system
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No mention they expanded the program either.
 
GroverPsychMD said:
The IL lobbyists are looking into this now.
Is prescribing within the military and different from psychologists prescribing without this immediate backup and EHR?
Can you extrapolate this to regular OP practice?
And the numbers and locations for psychologists in New Mexico is correct right? How does that work into access for care and all that jazz??
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1 - Even in "urban" areas in New Mexico, the waits to see psychiatrists were 3 or more months. Thus, these areas are underserved

2 - You act like you have some inside scoop with the Illinois Medical Society, but I know you don't. You are a sensationalist as shown by your saying that the DoD d/continued the psychologist prescribing program because psychologists were killing people. and then published an article that proved yourself a liar

3 - Out of all those prescribing psychologists that are listed in other states, they are listed that way because they are prescribing within the Indian Health Service in states other than New Mexico but have to be licensed there to prescribe

I would like to stay and argue more but your shallow arguments just make it too easy
 
Keep on fighting the dieticians.
I can also glean from your threads how much you all really want to help the underserved, needy population.
Good night.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I hope Grover testifies in Illinois against the bill -- he will practically win the vote for us
 
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