I'm a psych major who ultimately wants to go into neuroscience.

[cancerously]

Hopefully I'm posting in the proper place.

After attending a large, public university on-and-off for four years (where I was miserable), I've transferred to a smaller university to actually take my life in some direction. I have recently decided I want to go into neuroscience. My specific interests focus on how neurotransmitters influence the prevalence and severity of mental disorders.

I'm seeking guidance for what classes to take to prepare me for graduate school. I also do not know what to get my Master's in before I actually move onto a PhD in neuroscience.

I was thinking general biology, general chemistry, anatomy and physiology, microbiology, organic chemistry, and genetics as far as science classes. I'm in Calculus I right now, planning on taking Calculus II next semester. For psychology, I was thinking research methods, physiological psychology and human learning and cognition. I've already taken abnormal psychology. My university does not have an intensive psych program, sadly.

I am just wondering if those more knowledgeable than myself can steer me in the right direction. My GPA right now is a 3.2, but at the end of this semester it should be a 3.5 because I'm retaking a class I previously blew off. After this semester, I will focus on raising my GPA as much as possible.

Thank you for your input.

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[nessa34]

I'm in a clinical psych program, like a lot of people on this forum, but I do neuroimaging research and looked at both neuro and clinical programs, so hopefully I can help some. As far as classes go, it looks like you have a good plan. You're also right to focus on your GPA- if you can get it above a 3.5, and especially a 3.7, you'll be good.

The biggest factor in getting into a doctoral program, however, is research experience. Try to find a professor who you can work with, either on a paid or volunteer basis. If it's not totally in your area of interest, that's fine- it will still help you learn how to do research. Also look at summer opportunities- for example, the NSF has a program called research opportunities for undergraduates (REU) for people to do research at another university for the summer.

Lastly, you probably won't have to do a separate Master's- most programs give you the Master's en route to the PhD.

good luck!

 

[cancerously]

I'm in a clinical psych program, like a lot of people on this forum, but I do neuroimaging research and looked at both neuro and clinical programs, so hopefully I can help some. As far as classes go, it looks like you have a good plan. You're also right to focus on your GPA- if you can get it above a 3.5, and especially a 3.7, you'll be good.

The biggest factor in getting into a doctoral program, however, is research experience. Try to find a professor who you can work with, either on a paid or volunteer basis. If it's not totally in your area of interest, that's fine- it will still help you learn how to do research. Also look at summer opportunities- for example, the NSF has a program called research opportunities for undergraduates (REU) for people to do research at another university for the summer.

Lastly, you probably won't have to do a separate Master's- most programs give you the Master's en route to the PhD.

good luck!

Thanks for your response!

Since I'll be taking a lot of four credit hour classes, I should be able to pull my GPA up to at least 3.7 if I make As, and since I've tailored those classes to my interests (I'm honestly legitimately interested in 90% of those classes I listed) I should have an easier time.

My university has an excellent career services department and I'm hopeful the director will be able to find a research internship for me. If not, I will try to work with a faculty member. It is such a small school, and I'm not entirely sure that is a common practice there. It's probably too small of a school for what I'm trying to do, but socially I'm happy and I feel like I'm receiving a quality education.

The PhD program in neuroscience at the university I want to attend does not offer an MS/PhD program in neuroscience, and neither does my second choice... unless I've misunderstood the websites. Those websites can be tricky, so that's possible as well. I was considering getting my Masters in clinical psychology before moving onto neuroscience. I literally had that idea today though, and haven't had time to mull it over.

 

[doggums]

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[mewtoo]

A lot of schools might say they don't offer a masters meaning the don't offer a terminal masters... maybe you earn one en route to the PhD at the programs you're looking at? Just anecdotally I don't known of a PhD program that requires you to enter with a master's degree.

I agree with your focus on pulling up the GPA and trying to get research experience. The classes you're looking at sound good too. I was a neuroscience major in undergrad and the foundational requirements were 2 semesters each of bio, chemistry, physics, calculus, and organic chemistry. Then things like cognitive psych, human physio, molecular cell bio, sensation & perception, neurobio, physiological psych, and cellular biophysics and modeling. Research methods and stats somewhere in there is definitely necessary as well. If your school doesn't specifically offer a neuroscience major, I might consider taking a handful of upper level bio classes beyond those you've listed? The two undergrad neuro programs I was in (transferred after 2 years) both required at least eight bio classes, so you'll probably be up against applicants with some intense bio and lab training.

Oh, and an intro to computer science class is always a plus, especially working with neurotransmitters. A lot of molecular/micro biology is moving towards computer modeling as a way to better represent all the crazy complexities they're learning about.

Wow, eight bio classes? My bio minor only makes me take 6. My school does not have neuroscience anything, so I don't know how those work.

 

[doggums]

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[mewtoo]

Haha, yeah, it's kind of insane. At both schools it was basically a double major in psych and bio, they just gave it a cool name and made sure you focused on what they called "natural" psych.

Ah, okay. That makes sense. I was wondering how you fit all of that into one degree. I wish I'd gone to a school that had that, because I'd have loved it. I dropped my bio major partly because I'd have to take a bunch of botany or zoo classes because the professors that taught cell & molec track classes (like virology, imuunology, molecular genetics of human disease, etc.) left. The closest you can get to neuroscience at my school is the one biopsych class and there's nothing brain related in the bio department. I've just been taking the cell & molec track classes that are left.

 

[cancerously]

A lot of schools might say they don't offer a masters meaning the don't offer a terminal masters... maybe you earn one en route to the PhD at the programs you're looking at? Just anecdotally I don't known of a PhD program that requires you to enter with a master's degree.

I agree with your focus on pulling up the GPA and trying to get research experience. The classes you're looking at sound good too. I was a neuroscience major in undergrad and the foundational requirements were 2 semesters each of bio, chemistry, physics, calculus, and organic chemistry. Then things like cognitive psych, human physio, molecular cell bio, sensation & perception, neurobio, physiological psych, and cellular biophysics and modeling. Research methods and stats somewhere in there is definitely necessary as well. If your school doesn't specifically offer a neuroscience major, I might consider taking a handful of upper level bio classes beyond those you've listed? The two undergrad neuro programs I was in (transferred after 2 years) both required at least eight bio classes, so you'll probably be up against applicants with some intense bio and lab training.

Oh, and an intro to computer science class is always a plus, especially working with neurotransmitters. A lot of molecular/micro biology is moving towards computer modeling as a way to better represent all the crazy complexities they're learning about.

There are two universities I'm considering right now, Vanderbilt and Emory. I'm planning on visiting them both to perhaps gain more information, as their websites don't specify whether they offer MS/PhD programs. Or if they do, I'm not seeing it. I have a hard time navigating university websites sometimes.

Pulling up the GPA shouldn't be a problem. It's only so low because I really slacked off at my previous university and almost never attended class. At my current university, teachers can fail you if you miss more than three classes unless it's a school-sanctioned event or an emergency, which has done wonders for my class attendance.

I would also feel a little better if I had a different degree to fall back on, hence my idea to look into clinical psych. I was going to double major in mathematics and psychology, but with all the science classes I have to take and the fact that the mathematics and psych courses are offered at the same times of day, I'm going to have to give that up.

Research methods is a required class for all psych majors, and I've had a mathematical statistics/data analysis class (and loved it, by the way!).

 

[cancerously]

Ah, okay. That makes sense. I was wondering how you fit all of that into one degree. I wish I'd gone to a school that had that, because I'd have loved it. I dropped my bio major partly because I'd have to take a bunch of botany or zoo classes because the professors that taught cell & molec track classes (like virology, imuunology, molecular genetics of human disease, etc.) left. The closest you can get to neuroscience at my school is the one biopsych class and there's nothing brain related in the bio department. I've just been taking the cell & molec track classes that are left.

That's a lot of why I don't want to be a biology major/minor... I really don't care about the zoology or botany. Luckily, we do have a few brain-related classes, hopefully enough to get me started.

 

[doggums]

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[cancerously]

I'm applying to Vanderbilt and they definitely offer a PhD program in which you get an MA en route. Just a warning though, last year's admitted class had an average GPA of 3.93. I'm not saying you're not a competitive applicant, just... omg. I don't know how those stats could not terrify pretty much everyone. It's a fun place to visit though... I have family there and two of my family members went there for undergrad.

Also, Emory offers an MA/PhD as well. I think you're pretty safe assuming that all programs do. They won't always specifically say it, but it appears like this... "We do not offer a terminal master’s degree. The Ph.D. track involves first obtaining a Master's degree." It's a way of saying the only want applicants interested in PhDs, but they retain the right to kick you out with a masters if they don't like you.

I prefer Emory to Vanderbilt. I actually prefer Emory to pretty much any school I've looked at for any degree. I live in TN, which is a lot of why I am considering Vandy to begin with. Like I could drive to Vandy, take a tour, grab a bite to eat in Nashville, then go home, and all that would take about five hours. And yeah, that 3.93 is super scary. I'm shooting for a 3.75; if I have to, I can try to retake other courses I made Cs in and make As... my Cs are all due to laziness.

That's another reason I felt a Master's in clinical psych or even chemistry would be a good idea, it would give me a little more time to focus on research and stuff, and I know I'm not going to go straight into graduate school the semester after graduation. I'm going to want a break from school for a little while. But on the other hand, that would just prolong my actual degree.

This is also a relatively big jump for me... I went from wanting to be a math teacher (or rather, tricking myself into thinking that is what I wanted) to wanting to study neurotransmitters. I am still a little shaky with this stuff.

 

[phillips101]

I prefer Emory to Vanderbilt. I actually prefer Emory to pretty much any school I've looked at for any degree. I live in TN, which is a lot of why I am considering Vandy to begin with. Like I could drive to Vandy, take a tour, grab a bite to eat in Nashville, then go home, and all that would take about five hours. And yeah, that 3.93 is super scary. I'm shooting for a 3.75; if I have to, I can try to retake other courses I made Cs in and make As... my Cs are all due to laziness.

That's another reason I felt a Master's in clinical psych or even chemistry would be a good idea, it would give me a little more time to focus on research and stuff, and I know I'm not going to go straight into graduate school the semester after graduation. I'm going to want a break from school for a little while. But on the other hand, that would just prolong my actual degree.

This is also a relatively big jump for me... I went from wanting to be a math teacher (or rather, tricking myself into thinking that is what I wanted) to wanting to study neurotransmitters. I am still a little shaky with this stuff.

If you want research experience, why don't you just take time off to work in a research lab? Why a clin psych/chem MA/MS and not a neuroscience one? Brandeis has a 1-year master's program in neuroscience, and a couple other schools do too. You seem to be a little confused about masters/phd programs, not sure what you mean by PhD programs not offering MA/PhD degrees. Like another person said, most PhD programs want your goal to be getting that PhD, not to get the Masters and then drop out. If you're looking for masters program in neuroscience, look for TERMINAL masters programs, they are usually separate from the PhD programs.

Also, make sure that some schools don't count both grades in your retakes. I'm not sure about neuroscience grad school (and it could depend on the school itself), but for med school (which I know is entirely different), many take the average of the first grade and the retake grade, so if you got a C --> A, make sure they don't take it as a B. That could dramatically impact your GPA.

 

[cancerously]

If you want research experience, why don't you just take time off to work in a research lab? Why a clin psych/chem MA/MS and not a neuroscience one? Brandeis has a 1-year master's program in neuroscience, and a couple other schools do too. You seem to be a little confused about masters/phd programs, not sure what you mean by PhD programs not offering MA/PhD degrees. Like another person said, most PhD programs want your goal to be getting that PhD, not to get the Masters and then drop out. If you're looking for masters program in neuroscience, look for TERMINAL masters programs, they are usually separate from the PhD programs.

Also, make sure that some schools don't count both grades in your retakes. I'm not sure about neuroscience grad school (and it could depend on the school itself), but for med school (which I know is entirely different), many take the average of the first grade and the retake grade, so if you got a C --> A, make sure they don't take it as a B. That could dramatically impact your GPA.

I guess I could take time off to work in a research lab. That's where my knowledge is really lacking. I don't even know how to get that job, at this point. I guess that's where my university's career center might come in handy.

I was confused about the programs because the websites made it seem like PhD programs only were offered, but from this forum I've realized that isn't the case. I do want a PhD in neuroscience, but I thought I had to get my BS in something, then my MS/MA in something, then get my PhD in something. I didn't know I could enter a PhD program and get a MS/MA on the way there until recently.

I'm not really willing to venture too far away from the Southeast (with the exception of, ironically enough, the West Coast), which is why Emory and Vanderbilt are my choices right now. I still have a few years before I have to apply anyway; I won't take the GRE until 2014 I believe.

I never thought about them averaging grades, thank you for pointing that out. I've heard of that before, but only from people who are in pre-professional areas of focus. I'm not in a pre-neuroscience program or anything, so hopefully I'm okay, but I'll definitely look out for that.

 

[phillips101]

I guess I could take time off to work in a research lab. That's where my knowledge is really lacking. I don't even know how to get that job, at this point. I guess that's where my university's career center might come in handy.

I was confused about the programs because the websites made it seem like PhD programs only were offered, but from this forum I've realized that isn't the case. I do want a PhD in neuroscience, but I thought I had to get my BS in something, then my MS/MA in something, then get my PhD in something. I didn't know I could enter a PhD program and get a MS/MA on the way there until recently.

I'm not really willing to venture too far away from the Southeast (with the exception of, ironically enough, the West Coast), which is why Emory and Vanderbilt are my choices right now. I still have a few years before I have to apply anyway; I won't take the GRE until 2014 I believe.

I never thought about them averaging grades, thank you for pointing that out. I've heard of that before, but only from people who are in pre-professional areas of focus. I'm not in a pre-neuroscience program or anything, so hopefully I'm okay, but I'll definitely look out for that.

In this economy, it may be tough for you to find a full-time (or part-time really) paid position without prior lab experience. If you are looking in big cities, it's even harder. IF you can in any way, I would suggest volunteering first. You don't get paid, but you do get the experience, which will be a stepping stone to get a paid position in the future. Also, by getting research experience, that will help narrow down your research interests, which will really help when you actually apply.

 

[cancerously]

In this economy, it may be tough for you to find a full-time (or part-time really) paid position without prior lab experience. If you are looking in big cities, it's even harder. IF you can in any way, I would suggest volunteering first. You don't get paid, but you do get the experience, which will be a stepping stone to get a paid position in the future. Also, by getting research experience, that will help narrow down your research interests, which will really help when you actually apply.

Are there lab positions in like... suburban areas? I'm just not sure how to find those jobs. I've looked online, on like indeed.com and I haven't come up with anything promising and I'm not sure if they don't exist or if I'm just not looking for the right keywords. I'm talking a town of ~100,000.

 

[phillips101]

Are there lab positions in like... suburban areas? I'm just not sure how to find those jobs. I've looked online, on like indeed.com and I haven't come up with anything promising and I'm not sure if they don't exist or if I'm just not looking for the right keywords. I'm talking a town of ~100,000.

First, are you looking for a paid position?
Second, do you have any skills or experiences that would make them want to hire you instead of the dozens or more applicants?

Gone are the days when you can graduate college and just get a job. Nowadays, they want experience, something that they are not willing to pay you to get. I cannot say about surburban areas, and that also depends on which state you're in. If you're in Montana, I would imagine (and heard from my friends who live around there) it's easier to find a paying job than if you were in NY.

As far as where to look, the previous poster is correct in that you might have better luck looking at the specific Universities/colleges instead of indeed or monster. I never had any luck with those when I was searching. Also, you can search by organizations. So for example, when I was looking to get experience, I googled "neuropsychology clinics" as well as looking into research institutions. Since you want to go into neuroscience, you may want to look at pharmaceutical companies and universities. However, just to warn you, getting a job isn't like getting an internship. They won't care about your grades or whether you are an honors student. They care whether you need to be spoon fed and whether you can start running on your first day.

When I was looking, I ended up volunteering for several months before transitioning into a paid position. When it became a full-time job, dozens of other people applied for the same position, many of which seemed overly qualified (i.e. a master's level with 5+ years of experience applying for an entry level research assistant job).
If you do end up volunteering, make sure you aren't stuck doing someone else's grunt work and try to get as much out of it as you can.

While I believe that a master's degree is useless if you have good grades and plan to go to a doctoral program, it may be something you need to do actually. Essentially, I see it as paying someone to give you experience in a master's program rather than someone paying YOU to give you experience. But, if you have good grades, then you can just work for free (i.e. volunteer) rather than paying to work.

 

[cancerously]

The science people I know have always looked for lab positions on university websites/recruiting sites. I don't think size of the town matters as much as the presence of a university or research/teaching hospital. So... I would suggest identifying the area you want to be in and the academic institutions there, go to their website, and look at "careers." I'm sure there are other opportunities for lab positions outside of academia, but they're probably harder to find and obtain (especially with little prior research experience).

Be warned that it might take tons of applications though! The economy sucks and honestly, it can be about who you know. A school may post a position for someone who's currently volunteering to be hired or something like that... so it looks like you might have a shot, but in reality they already know who they're hiring. I say this because I work in research and my workplace does it ALL the time.

There is definitely a very large University here! I actually used to attend this university but it wasn't right for me, so I transferred. And there are a lot of hospitals and medical-type places around here so that may help as well. My grandpa works for the university so that may help as well, and if nothing else I could get information from there.

First, are you looking for a paid position?
Second, do you have any skills or experiences that would make them want to hire you instead of the dozens or more applicants?

Gone are the days when you can graduate college and just get a job. Nowadays, they want experience, something that they are not willing to pay you to get. I cannot say about surburban areas, and that also depends on which state you're in. If you're in Montana, I would imagine (and heard from my friends who live around there) it's easier to find a paying job than if you were in NY.

As far as where to look, the previous poster is correct in that you might have better luck looking at the specific Universities/colleges instead of indeed or monster. I never had any luck with those when I was searching. Also, you can search by organizations. So for example, when I was looking to get experience, I googled "neuropsychology clinics" as well as looking into research institutions. Since you want to go into neuroscience, you may want to look at pharmaceutical companies and universities. However, just to warn you, getting a job isn't like getting an internship. They won't care about your grades or whether you are an honors student. They care whether you need to be spoon fed and whether you can start running on your first day.

When I was looking, I ended up volunteering for several months before transitioning into a paid position. When it became a full-time job, dozens of other people applied for the same position, many of which seemed overly qualified (i.e. a master's level with 5+ years of experience applying for an entry level research assistant job).
If you do end up volunteering, make sure you aren't stuck doing someone else's grunt work and try to get as much out of it as you can.

While I believe that a master's degree is useless if you have good grades and plan to go to a doctoral program, it may be something you need to do actually. Essentially, I see it as paying someone to give you experience in a master's program rather than someone paying YOU to give you experience. But, if you have good grades, then you can just work for free (i.e. volunteer) rather than paying to work.

I am definitely fine with volunteering at first and working whatever other random job I can in order to get by. When I go back to school in January, I'm going to try to talk to people about trying to get some research experience, any research experience, as an intern or a volunteer or something. There's a career services woman who seems amazing and I'm hopeful she will be able to help me. And like I said, I live near Vanderbilt so that might be helpful too.

Switching gears here... what is considered "appropriate work attire" for someone who works in a research field? Does it really matter? I'm sorry if this seems like a dumb question but I guess I just want to know if there is a strict dress code for researchers. To me, it seems like there wouldn't be, but you never know.

Sorry it took so long to reply.