IMG and DOs

[stephew]

I have to say I disagree; Do's are not favored over IMGs in my experience; its about the same and school dependent. Are you a NYCOM student? An SGU student, that kind of thing. I do think DO's however have a slight edge for ER, but not other fields. This comes from experience as well as talks with program directors. I should add in the vein of full disclosure, that Im a grad of SGU (99).
Steph

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[John Jadvar]

According to published data from ACGME/NRMP DOs have a much better chance at matching at a ACGME residency than foreign grads both US and Non-US foreign grads. Look at the data yourself:
http://nrmp.aamc.org/nrmp/mainguid/table2.htm

 

[dr.sof]

Yes, we know the stats. Our school does not keep it a "deep dark secret". What you have to "read in between the lines" is the US citizen thing. Programs prefer US IMG's vs. regular IMGs. Another issue is WHERE you went to school. Believe it or not, some off-shore schools are better than others(or at least have better reputations).

I also think your competitveness as a candidate depends on your overall package. Some directors and insitutions prefer an IMG with great grades and scores over a DO with mediocre scores. What happens if they both have great grades and scores? Only the director's know. Unfortunately, there are areas in the country that still look down upon DO's, just like there are places that look down upon US IMG's.

Stats or no stats, steph is giving her thoughts based on what she has experienced on the Eastern seaboard. I also, to some degree, have seen it in several of the institutions I've rotated at. The only place I saw where Do's had an edge over SGU students was at a "DO hospital"(Union Hospital, Union NJ).Now, I'm speaking from aN IM/PEDS/FP point of view. I couldn't really comment on preference in regards to Surgery or OB or other "specialties". I can tell you that most of the programs I interviewed at did not bother looking at DOs(from the directors' mouth)for some strange reason or another.Could it be an Eastern bias? I don't know. You probably know more than I do in that arena.

All I know is that I had no difficulty getting a competitive residency within my feild. I also know that SGU students ALL get residencies and a large portion of those do so through the Match.

If there is anyone out there from the other offshore schools, please let us know what you think about the IMG bias.

 

[stephew]

Dr Sof is right. Yes the stats overall mean DOs do better; I should have been more specific. 99+% of US citizens from SGU get residency. They are fine spots, sometimes quite impressive and have it no worse than DOs in my experience. A foreign IMG is another story and as Dr Sof notes, it matters which school youre talking about. I dont know the details about Ross/AUC/SABA but they are also considered viable places to go.

 

[Kent Ray]

dr.sof,
Thanks for being honest and frank in your post. It is hard for me to believe that a residency director would choose a IMG (US or not) over a DO graduate. I am currently rotating with an IMG from SGU. She spends all of her time telling me how great the school is and how SGU has a 94% pass rate on the USMLE, how their training is so great, how they get the best hospitals in the us to do clinical rotations......
At first I didn't care that she is an IMG but she is starting to drive me crazy. I hope all your students are not like this.
I am a DO student, 4th year. I am sure you get an excellent education at SGU but to be frank you are still an IMG. In three years the US government which funds HCFA is going to cut down the number of IMG residency spots from 30% of american residency positions to 10%.

 

[dr.sof]

Kent:
Thankyou for your candor. Fortunately, not all SGU students are type A!

When it comes to personalities in medicine, all schools have the same problem. There are cool people and not-so-cool people, luck of the draw. It is unfortunate she feels so insecure.

I understand your thoughts on the DO v. IMG situation. Ultimately, it comes down to having the courage to overcome adversity. Let's face it, any way you slice it, DO's and IMG's have extra hurdles. We will always be the butt of some insecure, pompous jerk's joke. But, who cares!?! The important goal is being able to practice medicine, being able to help others, following your dream.

As far as residency positions are concerned, the senatorial treat to limit the number of residency positions is a viable possibility. However, like all governement actions, they usually like to sit on their big, fat butts for a while, taking more tax payer money, before making an actual decision. This resolution is scheduled to go into effect in three years, if they actually go through with it. One thing I've learned(after dealing with many IMG threat's in the past) is that nothing is set in stone, esp. in an election year.Having said that, it should not be taken lightly.

If I had that kind of information before deciding on Grenada, I'm not sure what kind of decision I would make.To tell you the truth, I hadn't even thought of the DO route when I applied for Med school. In my situation, I was waitlisted at one school(UMDNJ-Newark) and it was too late to apply to DO school. As an alternative, my NYU advisor was very familiar with SGU and suggested it. I also did not want to wait. I wanted to go off and finish med school ASAP. But, that's me. Ultimately, I think US college seniors should look at what they want. They should investigate all of the different avenues, with all of their hurdles, and make a decision.

 

[stephew]

Hi. Just a correction; residencies are not being cut back quite the way you suggest; in '96 the goal was to cut back from 125% of US seniors in terms of residency space down to 110%. In the end while there were cuts (NY state a leader in this) they never came near the 'goal'. FOr a variety of reasons, but I lead you to the April '99 NY times article which probably you'll prefer to my own take. I have it linked to my site http://travel.to/sgusom.
Inessence, many of the NY spots are expanding again.
Not to suggest its easy as can be out there for those of us who are 'after all, just an IMG', but we do ok and prospects are fine for the foreseeable future for IMGs of good schools (US citizens at least) and DOs.
But in a couple years it will matter to us individually to about the same extent our college alma mater does.

 

[drusso]

Part of the problem for US IMG's is their lack of political representation. The AOA and AMA sit on the side of the political table these days. Who sits with the IMG's?