IMG Didn't match, have MPH and want to pursue either PhD or Nursing, PA. Thoughts?

[Rchl_2C]

Hello Everyone,

IMG here, didn't match for 4 years now, don't have any clinical experience here in the US. I have a Master's in Public Health (MPH), and I was gonna go for PhD but thinking of a different route such as nursing (ABSN) or PA to gain some hands on experience and earn some money. What do you guys think? I'll keep applying for residency every year of course.

Thanks,

R.

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[IMGASMD]

If you go nursing or pa, you’re pretty much done with your “physician” career. Do research, get a PhD, be someone who is high producing researcher’s lab tech for a few years. You may get lucky.

If you just want to practice medicine sure then go for some kind of mid-level degree. There’s that program in Missouri(?) that will let you practice without residency.... practice some allied health fields, perfusionist, neuro-monitoring tech, surgical tech, go into administration with your mph.

Bag the while health care field and be a plumber?

Good lock.

 

[premed_mamba]

You could apply to the emigre physicians program at NYIT. Basically it’s a program that allows foreign trained physicians to get their DO, and qualify for residency as an American medical graduate. Downfall is you have to do more years as a med student but if you really want to practice medicine I think that’s better than any of the options you listed. Here’s a link Osteopathic Medicine, D.O. – Émigré Physicians Program | Degrees | NYIT

 

[Tangerine123]

Bag the while health care field and be a plumber?

Science recently posted a small piece where a PhD/Postdoc explains how he found more meaning and a more fulfilling job in being a mailman as opposed to remaining in science. He cites not having an impact on peoples lives when he was in science. Sure, it's not comparable to medicine as a whole, but it makes you think. Honestly the idea of just moving to a small rural area, leaving all the BS medicine behind, and becoming a Baker/Fisherman or something has crossed my mind a few times

I’m a scientist making a difference during the pandemic—as a letter carrier

 

[IMGASMD]

Science recently posted a small piece where a PhD/Postdoc explains how he found more meaning and a more fulfilling job in being a mailman as opposed to remaining in science. He cites not having an impact on peoples lives when he was in science. Sure, it's not comparable to medicine as a whole, but it makes you think. Honestly the idea of just moving to a small rural area, leaving all the BS medicine behind, and becoming a Baker/Fisherman or something has crossed my mind a few times

I’m a scientist making a difference during the pandemic—as a letter carrier

Thanks for that. I read it after awoken in the middle of the night.

I am a firm believer that we as physicians, or future physicians are capable of doing many different things. Some people are “stuck” for the wrong reasons. That’s why people advise for American Medical schools, DO schools waaaaayyyyyy before foreign schools. That’s why I tell anyone who has any inkling of doing something else besides med school, if they have the opportunities to try that alternative before medical school, do it.

It’s very defeating when you’ve made to the top of a pyramid then all of sudden are told you have no other alternatives to go back down. There always are....

I do think the author for the article is different than the op though. After 30 years of doing this, I would not mind doing something else. I had an excellent high school teacher, after his retirement became a carpenter full time.

Good luck OP, I hope you find whatever you’re looking for.

 

[LunaOri]

Are you saying that you have applied for the match 4 times, and haven't gotten a spot in residency? I think you need to have a serious conversation with a residency program director about what your deficiencies are, and how to overcome them (if possible). Did you have good grades and STEP scores?

 

[DO2015CA]

Are you saying that you have applied for the match 4 times, and haven't gotten a spot in residency? I think you need to have a serious conversation with a residency program director about what your deficiencies are, and how to overcome them (if possible). Did you have good grades and STEP scores?

Their deficiencies are they are IMG and are getting further from graduation. At 4 years out, realistically no PD will touch them. Their skills and knowledge has atrophied. Unfortunately that’s first year is the best chance and being IMG puts them at a disadvantage that year as well

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Hello Everyone,

IMG here, didn't match for 4 years now, don't have any clinical experience here in the US. I have a Master's in Public Health (MPH), and I was gonna go for PhD but thinking of a different route such as nursing (ABSN) or PA to gain some hands on experience and earn some money. What do you guys think? I'll keep applying for residency every year of course.

Thanks,

R.

If you passed Step 1 and 2 (CK/CS) on your first tries then you can also apply to a Podiatry program to begin from 2nd-year (NYCPM allows this).

A few of my Caribbean friends who didn't match for a few years changed to the nursing route and are doing well now (making 70-85K per yr). Good luck!

 

[Rchl_2C]

Are you saying that you have applied for the match 4 times, and haven't gotten a spot in residency? I think you need to have a serious conversation with a residency program director about what your deficiencies are, and how to overcome them (if possible). Did you have good grades and STEP scores?

Thanks!

Poor scores actually, and passed Step 1 on the second attempt. It's been 4 years now, but I'll take the steps again in 3 years, and hopefully a PhD by then, or USCE through nursing or PA.

 

[DO2015CA]

Thanks!

Poor scores actually, and passed Step 1 on the second attempt. It's been 4 years now, but I'll take the steps again in 3 years, and hopefully a PhD by then, or USCE through nursing or PA.

I think you are done unfortunately. You are just so far removed from training. In 3 years, you will be 7 years removed from graduating medical school. All this time loans are ballooning. Id take the PA or NP route

 

[libertyyne]

You probably have debt, you have delayed your life for long enough. Get a job, leverage your MPH /MD to find a job in healthcare administration, quality improvement, IT, Insurance or teaching. You will be going to pa school spending 3 years to only add to your loans and delay finding meaning employment. You should be able to find a job that pays well enough.
Good luck.

 

[Splenda88]

I would do 1-yr accelerated nursing program...

 

[Tangerine123]

You probably have debt, you have delayed your life for long enough. Get a job, leverage your MPH /MD to find a job in healthcare administration, quality improvement, IT, Insurance or teaching. You will be going to pa school spending 3 years to only add to your loans and delay finding meaning employment. You should be able to find a job that pays well enough.
Good luck.

Also, this. You don't need to follow a clinical route. If you did an MPH and were thinking of doing a PhD then you have an inclination for research. There are many non clinical possibilities.

If you aren't locked to the US and want to do research then I would even suggest Europe. The quality of life as a PhD/Postdoc here is better than in the US. Also, Public Health is even offered as a Residency here.
PhDs in Europe have better financial support (you sign a contract with a set salary by the government, almost no tuition fees), programs are faster to complete (3-5 years), teaching is usually not mandatory, more social benefits

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Poor scores actually, and passed Step 1 on the second attempt. It's been 4 years now, but I'll take the steps again in 3 years, and hopefully a PhD by then, or USCE through nursing or PA.

You are making a big mistake. I'm reading this as you plan to get a PhD or get clinical experience in nursing, and then somehow turn that into a medical residency. And that you think you'll be taking the USMLE again. None of this will work.

First, the USMLE. There's talk that the USMLE "expires" after 7 years, and that you can take it again. That's not the way it works. You can only take a passed USMLE exam again if you can prove, to the USMLE, that you must in order to get a state license. Just saying "I'm thinking of applying for an XXX state license" won't work, you'll need a letter from the state BoM certifying that you need to take the exam again. And that's only going to happen if you meet all the other requirements for licensure, which you won't since you don't have any GME experience. So, bottom line, you are not taking the USMLE again.

A PhD will not make you a more competitive residency candidate. As already mentioned, you'll be more years from your graduation, more distant from your clinical work. Big research programs are not going to consider you, and smaller community programs won't care about your research, or might even be put off by it.

Getting clinical experience as an RN is also a dead end. Nursing experience does not equal physician experience, and if you try to "act like a physician" while being a nurse you'll be fired immediately. In fact, some employers may specifically avoid hiring you because of your medical training -- there would be concern that you would be held to a physician standard rather than a nurse standard. Residency programs will not see this as clinical work.

So, if you want to get a PhD and be a researcher - totally fine plan. If you want to be a nurse, probably a workable plan but your prior medical training may be an issue and this is not a path to being a physician. If you plan to be an ARNP, that also runs into the problem of your medical training but might be possible.

 

[DO2015CA]

You are making a big mistake. I'm reading this as you plan to get a PhD or get clinical experience in nursing, and then somehow turn that into a medical residency. And that you think you'll be taking the USMLE again. None of this will work.

First, the USMLE. There's talk that the USMLE "expires" after 7 years, and that you can take it again. That's not the way it works. You can only take a passed USMLE exam again if you can prove, to the USMLE, that you must in order to get a state license. Just saying "I'm thinking of applying for an XXX state license" won't work, you'll need a letter from the state BoM certifying that you need to take the exam again. And that's only going to happen if you meet all the other requirements for licensure, which you won't since you don't have any GME experience. So, bottom line, you are not taking the USMLE again.

A PhD will not make you a more competitive residency candidate. As already mentioned, you'll be more years from your graduation, more distant from your clinical work. Big research programs are not going to consider you, and smaller community programs won't care about your research, or might even be put off by it.

Getting clinical experience as an RN is also a dead end. Nursing experience does not equal physician experience, and if you try to "act like a physician" while being a nurse you'll be fired immediately. In fact, some employers may specifically avoid hiring you because of your medical training -- there would be concern that you would be held to a physician standard rather than a nurse standard. Residency programs will not see this as clinical work.

So, if you want to get a PhD and be a researcher - totally fine plan. If you want to be a nurse, probably a workable plan but your prior medical training may be an issue and this is not a path to being a physician. If you plan to be an ARNP, that also runs into the problem of your medical training but might be possible.

What are your thoughts on them moving to Missouri and becoming a dr PA (whatever they call them)

 

[IMGASMD]

What are your thoughts on them moving to Missouri and becoming a dr PA (whatever they call them)

Assistant physician.
From what I can find, less than 50 people have tried that route..... may not be easy to get in either.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It would be more reasonable that the PhD or RN plan above. But he/she may not qualify. Must pass Step 2 within three years of application or graduation from medical school. Since they have applied in 4 matches, may have trouble meeting this requirement.

 

[Tangerine123]

Thanks!

Poor scores actually, and passed Step 1 on the second attempt. It's been 4 years now, but I'll take the steps again in 3 years, and hopefully a PhD by then, or USCE through nursing or PA.

MPH, PhD, Residency, Nursing, PA

It seems that you're just floating without any real direction. I would suggest that you first sit down and think what you actually want to do with your life. Randomly applying to stuff will eventually get you somewhere, but that somewhere won't necesarily be where you want to end up.

If you are just interested in the money then just look for a job with your MPH and stick with that. Reconsider if you want to stay in the US. You will have to invest more money and time given your circumstances.