IMG with a medical leave of absence--red flag?

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lymphocyte

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My wife and I were in a bad car wreck last year. I took a medical leave of absence of about 6 months, effectively delaying my graduation by a year. I used the extra time to rehabilitate, read, reconnect with my family and friends--but I didn't really do anything medicine related. How damaging might this delay be to my application? Can I mitigate the damage? Would it be worth having my LOR writers mention it? Should I say something in my personal statement? Is this a red flag, a raised eyebrow, or a chill the heck out?

Otherwise, I think I have a good application: USIMG (attending on a full scholarship), 252/246/pass, 3 months USCE, American psychiatry LORs, honors in all rotations, publications. I have no geographic preferences, and I intend to apply very broadly.

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My wife and I were in a bad car wreck last year. I took a medical leave of absence of about 6 months, effectively delaying my graduation by a year. I used the extra time to rehabilitate, read, reconnect with my family and friends--but I didn't really do anything medicine related. How damaging might this delay be to my application? Can I mitigate the damage? Would it be worth having my LOR writers mention it? Should I say something in my personal statement? Is this a red flag, a raised eyebrow, or a chill the f*** out?

Otherwise, I think I have a good application: USIMG (attending on a full scholarship), 252/246/pass, 3 months USCE, American psychiatry LORs, honors in all rotations, publications. I have no geographic preferences, and I intend to apply very broadly.
There's a place on ERAS where you can explain any leaves of absence. I would think explaining it there would be sufficient. Some of the seniors on here could probably give more educated advice though.
 
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I agree--use the designated space in ERAS, and let it ride--6 months with a solid reason is nothing to worry about (especially with the rest of your app as you present it). Likely this will also be mentioned in your Dean's Letter as well.
 
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My wife and I were in a bad car wreck last year. I took a medical leave of absence of about 6 months, effectively delaying my graduation by a year. I used the extra time to rehabilitate, read, reconnect with my family and friends--but I didn't really do anything medicine related. How damaging might this delay be to my application? Can I mitigate the damage? Would it be worth having my LOR writers mention it? Should I say something in my personal statement? Is this a red flag, a raised eyebrow, or a chill the f*** out?

Otherwise, I think I have a good application: USIMG (attending on a full scholarship), 252/246/pass, 3 months USCE, American psychiatry LORs, honors in all rotations, publications. I have no geographic preferences, and I intend to apply very broadly.

I wouldn't have your evaluators mention your LoA unless somehow it relates to your on-site performance in some way. No reason to draw attention to something that really isn't a big deal. It only seems like a big deal because you're in the midst of applying places. Your scores are fine as an IMG applying psych. Sorry to hear about the medical circumstances.

But you're already going to be a JMO in Australia, no?
 
I wouldn't have your evaluators mention your LoA unless somehow it relates to your on-site performance in some way. No reason to draw attention to something that really isn't a big deal. It only seems like a big deal because you're in the midst of applying places. Your scores are fine as an IMG applying psych. Sorry to hear about the medical circumstances.

But you're already going to be a JMO in Australia, no?

Thank you @Phloston, as always, for your unique insight as a PGY-0 who hasn't applied, isn't applying, or won't be applying for the next two years.

Just because I was offered a position in Australia doesn't necessarily mean that I'll accept it. Having done Sub-Is in both countries, the clinical training in the US is outstanding and I would feel very privileged to train there. I just have to acknowledge the possibility that I might not match.

Edit: I'm sorry for reacting so sharply, but you're trolling through my past posts (this one is 6 months old) because I strongly disagreed with the advice you were giving to preclinical students (like insisting on buying your intern coffee twice a week or abandoning your team to oblige scut requests from other teams' interns.)
 
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Thank you, as always, for your unique insight as a PGY-0 who hasn't applied or won't be applying for the next two years.

Just because I was offered a position in Australia doesn't necessarily mean that I'll accept it. Having done Sub-Is in both countries, the clinical training in the US is outstanding and I would feel very privileged to train their. I just have to acknowledge the possibility that I might not match.

I appreciate you editing your comment to make it less inflammatory (although it still is). I reported it to the moderator and would suggest kinder rhetoric on the SDN platform.

Just trying to offer help. Once again, sorry to hear about your accident.

You did say in a different thread that you "matched" into Australia already as a JMO. I'm curious, since this time of year is well in advance of any timetable for Australian placements.
 
I appreciate you editing your comment to make it less inflammatory (although it still is).

Just trying to offer help. Once again, sorry to hear about your accident.

You did say in a different thread that you "matched" into Australia already as a JMO. I'm curious, since this time of year is well in advance of any timetable for Australian placements.

Why are you curious? As someone in QLD, are you interested in HETI NSW, RPR, interstate schemes in Tasmania or WA, deferred placements from prior years, how Category 1 or 2 placements work (which guarantee placement)? Perhaps we could take this conversation up in a more appropriate forum (like the one for Australia)?
 
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Your post on this thread (#5) sounds ambivalent, but #53 on the URL I've posted above you're definitive. So which one is it?

The concern here doesn't relate to the Australia/Oceania SDN platform. It relates to whether you're posting the truth or lies. Because let's face it, you haven't matched anywhere.
 
Your post on this thread (#5) sounds ambivalent, but #53 on the URL I've posted above you're definitive. So which one is it?

Why is it your business? Leave me alone, stop making oblique references to my "concerning application" in other subforums, and necro-bumping my old posts. Report all you want but you're not going to bully me.
 
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Must be unfortunate when someone calls you out on your lies, isn't it.

People would be more than happy for you to be a contributive, helpful member of the forum. Let's keep things civil here.
 
Must be unfortunate when someone calls you out on your lies, isn't it.

People would be more than happy for you to be a contributive, helpful member of the forum. Let's keep things civil here.

I pointed out all the different options, because each one has their own timeline. I've matched through one or more of the above. It's frankly none of your business, and I owe you exactly zero proof.

Our recent exchange (available for all to see and judge since you've linked to it) is plainly what's inspired you to interject yourself into this old thread and obliquely reference it in other posts--as if being in a car accident reflects poorly on me.

Best of luck to you, and I've "ignored" your future posts.
 
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Rerouting to the original question, I tend to agree with OPD. I don't think the LOA will significantly hurt you. I don't know all of the legalities of how places handle leaves of absence, but I get the sense that the main question they are asking is whether that leave represents a problem that will cause ongoing trouble during residency. Dealing with a resident who needs to take major gaps away from work, or needs special accommodations (reduced workloads, others suddenly having to cover for your patients, etc) while at work, can be difficult. If the program thinks your leave was due to a problem that is likely to repeat (or impair your practice while on duty) then I think it can be more harmful. A car accident where the sequelae has resolved sounds rather unlikely to repeat or cause ongoing trouble and hence seems one of the more favorable reasons to have taken leave.

I'm not saying, by the way, whether approaching leaves in such a way is right or wrong. Just that I get the sense that is how its done.

With the step scores and clinical grades you are reporting I imagine you will be a competitive applicant. It's an uphill battle to match as an IMG but I see no reason (based on the above) why you can't.
 
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Rerouting to the original question, I tend to agree with OPD. I don't think the LOA will significantly hurt you. I don't know all of the legalities of how places handle leaves of absence, but I get the sense that the main question they are asking is whether that leave represents a problem that will cause ongoing trouble during residency. Dealing with a resident who needs to take major gaps away from work, or needs special accommodations (reduced workloads, others suddenly having to cover for your patients, etc) while at work, can be difficult. If the program thinks your leave was due to a problem that is likely to repeat (or impair your practice while on duty) then I think it can be more harmful. A car accident where the sequelae has resolved sounds rather unlikely to repeat or cause ongoing trouble and hence seems one of the more favorable reasons to have taken leave.

I'm not saying, by the way, whether approaching leaves in such a way is right or wrong. Just that I get the sense that is how its done.

With the step scores and clinical grades you are reporting I imagine you will be a competitive applicant. It's an uphill battle to match as an IMG but I see no reason (based on the above) why you can't.

Thank you.

With 6 months of hindsight (since this was a necro-bump)...

I've now checked with a few PDs, and they all say exactly this. Recurrence and awareness are what they worry most about.

Even if it were a chronic illness, it's usually better to be completely honest and include a clear management plan. Otherwise, with a vague explanation for a medical LOA, they'll assume the "worst" (that it's mental illness), and either you're clueless about the risk of relapse during a stressful residency or you'll have a destabilising flare-up with no plan to proactively manage it.

I say usually, because disability discrimination is still very much real. It's always worth getting an honest and personalised opinion from your home PD. It's not a fair system, but it is what it is.

Otherwise, for one-off events like this, just having it explained in your MPSE and ERAS seems like the consensus course of action.
 
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Absolutely right. The worst thing to do is have a gap and zero explanation. Our imaginations tend to be worse than reality. Well explained gaps are fine, mysterious gaps raise eye brows.
 
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You were in a car accident and got injured. A six month leave of absence is totally reasonable given the circumstances and should not hinder your application.
 
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Besides, psychiatry PDs will probably only look down upon you/not consider you if you have a psychiatric illness. The legitimate reason is that they don't want to be down an intern/resident pending a bad relapse because it causes stress on the program and faculty and makes the other residents who have to cover very angry. The unsaid (though palpably clear) reason is that psychiatrists don't like having their patients as colleagues, particularly if they are alcoholics/addicts (even though lots of psychiatrists struggle with have mental illnesses anyway)
 
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Besides, psychiatry PDs will probably only look down upon you/not consider you if you have a psychiatric illness. The legitimate reason is that they don't want to be down an intern/resident pending a bad relapse because it causes stress on the program and faculty and makes the other residents who have to cover very angry. The unsaid (though palpably clear) reason is that psychiatrists don't like having their patients as colleagues, particularly if they are alcoholics/addicts (even though lots of psychiatrists struggle with have mental illnesses anyway)

That's unfortunate. Do these psychiatrists not believe their patients can make meaningful and lasting recoveries? Or is it more that even a small possibility of relapse is too great a risk for the program considering the number of viable applicants presumed to lack that vulnerability? What advice would you have for someone who did take a medical leave due to a mental illness, if their step score and academic career thereafter was strong/unconcerning? How should they package themselves to address PD concerns without oversharing? An authority at my school told me to explain that I took time off to take care of my family. When I said that felt somewhat disingenuous, he said: "well, you're part of your family."

Edit: Though OP is an IMG, I'm an American student from a middle-of-the-pack allopathic school.
 
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That's unfortunate. Do these psychiatrists not believe their patients can make meaningful and lasting recoveries? Or is it more that even a small possibility of relapse is too great a risk for the program considering the number of viable applicants presumed to lack that vulnerability? What advice would you have for someone who did take a medical leave due to a mental illness, if their step score and academic career thereafter was strong/unconcerning? How should they package themselves to address PD concerns without oversharing? An authority at my school told me to explain that I took time off to take care of my family. When I said that felt somewhat disingenuous, he said: "well, you're part of your family."

Based on the advice I've gotten:

PDs hire people to do a chronically stressful job. Stress is a risk factor for relapse. Relapse means acute illness for you and burdening others in the programme, distracting them from doing their jobs (a job that entails learning, taking care of patients, developing professionally, etc.). It's a question of fairness, fairness to yourself and fairness to others.

If you came to a PD with a very clear understanding of your disease (or life situation), demonstrated situations where you've endured chronic stress successfully (like acing your Step 1, clinicals, etc.), presented a proactive management plan, said you would save up vacation time, etc, then that's very different.

But if you were vague or deceptive and then had a depressive episode with none of the above, you would have been very, very unfair to everybody, including yourself.

Psychiatrists know how bad things can get, especially if somebody who appears to be clueless about the risk of and implications for relapse rushes into a chronically stressful job. Why would they facilitate that? Is it discrimination? Yes. But that's the situation.

PDs aren't unreasonable people. And maybe a residency with 80-hour/week PGY-1 rotations and ICU terms isn't for you. But whatever you do, just don't be vague. Don't let their imaginations wander, because they've seen the worst, and the worst can be really bad.
 
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Based on the advice I've gotten:

PDs hire people to do a chronically stressful job. Stress is a risk factor for relapse. Relapse means acute illness for you and burdening others in the programme, distracting them from doing their jobs (a job that entails learning, taking care of patients, developing professionally, etc.). It's a question of fairness, fairness to yourself and to others.

If you came to a PD with a very clear understanding of your disease (or life situation), demonstrated situations where you've endured chronic stress successfully, presented a proactive management plan, said you would save vacation, etc, then that's very different.

But if you were vague or deceptive and then had a depressive episode with none of the above, you would have been very, very unfair to everybody, including yourself.

Psychiatrists know how bad things can get, especially if somebody who appears to be clueless about the risk of and implications for relapse rushes into a chronically stressful job. Why would they facilitate that? Is it discrimination? Yes. But that's the situation.

PDs aren't unreasonable people. And maybe a residency with 80-hour/week PGY-1 rotations and ICU terms isn't for you. But whatever you do, just don't be vague. Don't let their imaginations wander, because they've seen the worst, and the worst can be really bad.

Thank you for your time, lymphocyte, your explanation makes a lot of sense.

If one were to disclose their mental illness and their wellness action plan, at what point in the application process is it wise to do so? Is this type of experience something that would go in the personal statement if it solidified one's desire to go into the psychiatry field or should it be limited to the section of ERAS designated for time away? Or is it preferable to indicate there was a medical leave on ERAS and hold off on details until there is an opportunity to explain it in depth in the interview?
 
Based on the advice I've gotten:

PDs hire people to do a chronically stressful job. Stress is a risk factor for relapse. Relapse means acute illness for you and burdening others in the programme, distracting them from doing their jobs (a job that entails learning, taking care of patients, developing professionally, etc.). It's a question of fairness, fairness to yourself and fairness to others.

If you came to a PD with a very clear understanding of your disease (or life situation), demonstrated situations where you've endured chronic stress successfully (like acing your Step 1, clinicals, etc.), presented a proactive management plan, said you would save up vacation time, etc, then that's very different.

But if you were vague or deceptive and then had a depressive episode with none of the above, you would have been very, very unfair to everybody, including yourself.

Psychiatrists know how bad things can get, especially if somebody who appears to be clueless about the risk of and implications for relapse rushes into a chronically stressful job. Why would they facilitate that? Is it discrimination? Yes. But that's the situation.

PDs aren't unreasonable people. And maybe a residency with 80-hour/week PGY-1 rotations and ICU terms isn't for you. But whatever you do, just don't be vague. Don't let their imaginations wander, because they've seen the worst, and the worst can be really bad.

You're a med student repeating hearsay. You don't really know how this works until you're on the other side.

That's unfortunate. Do these psychiatrists not believe their patients can make meaningful and lasting recoveries? Or is it more that even a small possibility of relapse is too great a risk for the program considering the number of viable applicants presumed to lack that vulnerability? What advice would you have for someone who did take a medical leave due to a mental illness, if their step score and academic career thereafter was strong/unconcerning? How should they package themselves to address PD concerns without oversharing? An authority at my school told me to explain that I took time off to take care of my family. When I said that felt somewhat disingenuous, he said: "well, you're part of your family."

Edit: Though OP is an IMG, I'm an American student from a middle-of-the-pack allopathic school.

Psychiatrists do hope and know that their patients can get better, but at the same time a PD does NOT want to be down a resident for reasons I already mentioned above. Also, doctors (especially in academia) tend to look down on.even patronize their patients, and while a psychiatrist might praise a bad bipolar or alcoholic for achieving stability in life, working, having a family, they almost certainly do not want that patient doing the same job. So given a large number of applicants for very few spots, it becomes very easy for a PD to skip over/not interview/not rank highly an applicant with a past history of mental illness.

In terms of disclosure, there is not a clear cut answer. Generally, however, in the appropriate section of ERAS putting "had to leave for medical reasons" (ie, being vague) is the way to go. Doing this (ie, being vague) will more likely than not cause the PD or whoever is reading your app to gloss over this (assuming no other red flags) and focus on other parts of your application. However, if you had red flags (behavioral problems that appear in the MPSE, academic problems) due to your illness, then it might require some more disclosure.

Also, you have to consider that your history might delay you from getting a license on time to start July 1 (or mid June). The level of detail asked about mental health/substance issues varies among the different states' applications (most are inappropriately intrusive, unfortunately). If you are monitored under a state Physician Health Program (most of these monitor doctors with only addiction problems, but some do other mental health issues at well) and you match in a state that likewise has a mental health PHP, this can help expedite the process. While starting later in intern year isn't THAT big of a deal (happens to lots of IMGs), letting a potential PD know who might otherwise have no qualms about ranking you is going to be a big judgment call on your part. If you wait until after match day to bring this up with your PD, he or she *might* be a little irritated, but again, you have to balance this with having as many options on the table as possible.

Regarding your personal statement, these types of statements are NOT unique or uncommon, and a large percentage appear to be huge rationalizations for academic/behavioral problems in the past, but they come off sounding like complete BS: "I did badly in med school and had to repeat a year, and then I was diagnosed with xyz, and it really inspired me to go into psychiatry". However, if your experience with your issues GENUINELY drove you to choose psychiatry over another field and you can write about it without coming across as sounding indignant, lame, desperate, then it could be an interesting read. The key is it has to be genuine, so know yourself. Anyway, personal statements don't matter that much (nowhere near Step 1 score, where you went to med school, or clerkship performance).

I hardly see the value in saying "taking time off for family reasons" That is totally disingenuous.
 
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You're a med student repeating hearsay. You don't really know how this works until you're on the other side.

Also, doctors (especially in academia) tend to look down on.even patronize

Just to be clear, what I wrote was nearly a copy and paste from a PD's email (an email that also seems to be in concordance with MacDonaldTriad's advice above). It is not, in fact, hearsay. That's why I qualified the entire post from the beginning and didn't make a follow-up comment. Perhaps the answer is: opinions vary. Maybe that's why OP's authority at home is saying to be deceptive (or at least disingenuous), my PD mentor is saying to be honest (or don't be vague), and you seem to be saying to be vague, but it really doesn't matter that much if there are no other red flags on your application.
 
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I appreciate the opportunity to hear multiple perspectives. Sounds like I have a lot to think about...
 
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