IMG's and Ortho residency

[NRAI2001]

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How difficult is it for a FMG or an IMG (specifically from a carribean school) to get a orth spot. I m sure they are at a disadvantage to US md students but at how much of a disadvantage?

 

[dry dre]

How difficult is it for a FMG or an IMG (specifically from a carribean school) to get a orth spot. I m sure they are at a disadvantage to US md students but at how much of a disadvantage?

Tremendous disadvantage. I know one person who has done this. He had >250 scores on part 1 and 2, did 2 years of research after getting the MD, played college football, hell of a nice guy. Applied to over 100 programs, got 6 interviews.

Important to note is that he had a good reason to go to a Carrib school. I don't think the average "drank too much in college and screwed my GPA" Carrib grad story will work with ortho. I really don't mean to knock on Carrib grads in saying this. Ortho is full of residents and attendings who are extremely hard working....often working jobs through undergrad, doing research in med school on the side, all while maintaining high grades, great Step scores, and top clinical performance. In short, previously stellar applicants.

There is no doubt that you will have to explain the Carrib if you apply to ortho; my take (maybe worthless) is that if you don't have a really, really good reason to explain it, don't have superb Step 1 scores, and if you can't make up for it through other means (research, winning a Nobel, etc), you really need to evaulate your realistic chances of getting in.

All this being said, if this is what you want to do, find a program willing to sit down with you, review your history and provide some real guidance.

 

[ortho2003]

Tremendous disadvantage. I know one person who has done this. He had >250 scores on part 1 and 2, did 2 years of research after getting the MD, played college football, hell of a nice guy. Applied to over 100 programs, got 6 interviews.

Important to note is that he had a good reason to go to a Carrib school. I don't think the average "drank too much in college and screwed my GPA" Carrib grad story will work with ortho. I really don't mean to knock on Carrib grads in saying this. Ortho is full of residents and attendings who are extremely hard working....often working jobs through undergrad, doing research in med school on the side, all while maintaining high grades, great Step scores, and top clinical performance. In short, previously stellar applicants.

There is no doubt that you will have to explain the Carrib if you apply to ortho; my take (maybe worthless) is that if you don't have a really, really good reason to explain it, don't have superb Step 1 scores, and if you can't make up for it through other means (research, winning a Nobel, etc), you really need to evaulate your realistic chances of getting in.

All this being said, if this is what you want to do, find a program willing to sit down with you, review your history and provide some real guidance.

ortho has fewer IMGs than any specialty. Barely more than 2% of all ortho residents are non US MD's. You will most likely need a flawless application and have to do some reearch at a particular program to get an "IN"

 

[NRAI2001]

Can someone do a general surgery residency and then apply to ortho? What if a IMG were to do this would their chances increase? If they were to do this how long would an ortho residency be after doing 4-5 years of general surgery?

Also who stands a better chance at getting a ortho residency a carr. grad or a DO grad?

 

[ortho2003]

Can someone do a general surgery residency and then apply to ortho? What if a IMG were to do this would their chances increase? If they were to do this how long would an ortho residency be after doing 4-5 years of general surgery?

Also who stands a better chance at getting a ortho residency a carr. grad or a DO grad?

Tough to say, it is difficult for both, but I would say DO's have a little better shot at Allo spots. There are 18 DO's in allo residencies which makes up about half of the non US MDs in allo residencies. What makes up the other half is tough to say, but I doubt they are all carribean grads. If you did a general surgery residency, you could do a hand fellowship, but you would still four years of ortho residency if you wanted to do general ortho, or any other ortho sub-specialty.

 

[NRAI2001]

Tough to say, it is difficult for both, but I would say DO's have a little better shot at Allo spots. There are 18 DO's in allo residencies which makes up about half of the non US MDs in allo residencies. What makes up the other half is tough to say, but I doubt they are all carribean grads. If you did a general surgery residency, you could do a hand fellowship, but you would still four years of ortho residency if you wanted to do general ortho, or any other ortho sub-specialty.

What is a hand fellowship?

 

[Winged Scapula]

What is a hand fellowship?

A fellowship training one to do Hand Surgery.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Can someone do a general surgery residency and then apply to ortho? What if a IMG were to do this would their chances increase? If they were to do this how long would an ortho residency be after doing 4-5 years of general surgery?

Also who stands a better chance at getting a ortho residency a carr. grad or a DO grad?

You might be able to do General Surgery then Ortho but consider these two things:

a) no guarantee you'll get into Ortho and if you dont' like Gen Surg, its a long 5 years;

b) you might not find a program willing to take you after having used up all of your HCFA funding for residency;

c) you will only get "credit" for your first year, thus still have 4 years of Ortho residency to do after 5 years of Gen Surg

 

[NRAI2001]

You might be able to do General Surgery then Ortho but consider these two things:

a) no guarantee you'll get into Ortho and if you dont' like Gen Surg, its a long 5 years;

b) you might not find a program willing to take you after having used up all of your HCFA funding for residency;

c) you will only get "credit" for your first year, thus still have 4 years of Ortho residency to do after 5 years of Gen Surg

Would residency directors look at you more favorably if u didnt ask for any funding?

 

[ortho2003]

Would residency directors look at you more favorably if u didnt ask for any funding?

Possibly, but that really is the least of your worries. If you really want to do ortho, your best bet to do it is to find a program that had IMGs in the past and contact them about research opportunities. Give them a few years of your time doing research, and get to know the faculty well. That may land you a spot in that program or at least develop some connections to match somewhere else while adding a few publications to your CV. Doing a GS residency isn't going to help you land an ortho spot. Networking and doing some meaningful ortho research may. The downside of this route is you could end up wasting 2 or 3 years on research that will not land you a spot and end up doing a different residency in the end, but it is probably your best bet to landing an ortho spot if that is truly what you want to do.

As an aside, I am a little confused as to how you are sure you want to do ortho if you do not know what a hand fellowship is. Your best bet might be to research ortho a little and figure out if it is truly what you want to do, or if it is just something you have heard pays better than most specialties.

 

[NRAI2001]

Possibly, but that really is the least of your worries. If you really want to do ortho, your best bet to do it is to find a program that had IMGs in the past and contact them about research opportunities. Give them a few years of your time doing research, and get to know the faculty well. That may land you a spot in that program or at least develop some connections to match somewhere else while adding a few publications to your CV. Doing a GS residency isn't going to help you land an ortho spot. Networking and doing some meaningful ortho research may. The downside of this route is you could end up wasting 2 or 3 years on research that will not land you a spot and end up doing a different residency in the end, but it is probably your best bet to landing an ortho spot if that is truly what you want to do.

As an aside, I am a little confused as to how you are sure you want to do ortho if you do not know what a hand fellowship is. Your best bet might be to research ortho a little and figure out if it is truly what you want to do, or if it is just something you have heard pays better than most specialties.

I knew what a hand fellowship is, but i was just wondering why you said that a gen surg might do that after a gen surg residency bc that isn't ortho. I shadowed an ortho, cardiologist, plastic surgeon, a few times both of my parents are internal med and I know that I want to do ortho.

As for me I am still a senior in undergrad but i am debating wether or not I should apply during the next cycle, go to carribean, or do a special masters program. I am just thinking far ahead into the future.

My gpa is decent (3.46 from uc berkeley) haven't taken the mcats yet but did research in neurosurgery (didn't like it), 1 publication in ph, worked in bolivia with drs doing surgeries. I am sure i can get into US school, but it might take me an extra year or two.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I knew what a hand fellowship is, but i was just wondering why you said that a gen surg might do that after a gen surg residency bc that isn't ortho. I shadowed an ortho, cardiologist, plastic surgeon, a few times both of my parents are internal med and I know that I want to do ortho.

As for me I am still a senior in undergrad but i am debating wether or not I should apply during the next cycle, go to carribean, or do a special masters program. I am just thinking far ahead into the future.

My gpa is decent (3.46 from uc berkeley) haven't taken the mcats yet but did research in neurosurgery (didn't like it), 1 publication in ph, worked in bolivia with drs doing surgeries. I am sure i can get into US school, but it might take me an extra year or two.

Ahhh...please do not "go to the Carribean" as your first (or even 2nd) option. All this talk about being an IMG is just a possibility. If you really want to do Ortho, then maybe taking " an extra year or two" to do research, etc. and get yourself into a US school is the way to go...it will be a LOT easier in the long run. Seems to me anyway.

The reason a hand fellowship was mentioned is that some of the fellowships are open to General Surgery trained residents (not just Ortho and Plastics) and the procedures are often ortho in nature, so it might be a way to satisfy your need for orthopedics without doing a full Ortho residency (which we assumed was a near impossibility given that we thought you were already at a Carribean school).

 

[NRAI2001]

Ahhh...please do not "go to the Carribean" as your first (or even 2nd) option. All this talk about being an IMG is just a possibility. If you really want to do Ortho, then maybe taking " an extra year or two" to do research, etc. and get yourself into a US school is the way to go...it will be a LOT easier in the long run. Seems to me anyway.

The reason a hand fellowship was mentioned is that some of the fellowships are open to General Surgery trained residents (not just Ortho and Plastics) and the procedures are often ortho in nature, so it might be a way to satisfy your need for orthopedics without doing a full Ortho residency (which we assumed was a near impossibility given that we thought you were already at a Carribean school).

O i see, thanks for the advice. I am just anxious to start med school. I am seeing all of my friends get into med schools, many to the carribean. I didn't apply this year but its hard to see everyone interviewing and knowing where they are going and I am still not sure what the future holds for me. I guess I was kinda hoping u guys would say it is possible to do ortho from the carr. but I appreciate ur honesty even more. I ll probably take ur advice and spend an extra year and try to get into a US school.

 

[ortho2003]

I knew what a hand fellowship is, but i was just wondering why you said that a gen surg might do that after a gen surg residency bc that isn't ortho. I shadowed an ortho, cardiologist, plastic surgeon, a few times both of my parents are internal med and I know that I want to do ortho.

As for me I am still a senior in undergrad but i am debating wether or not I should apply during the next cycle, go to carribean, or do a special masters program. I am just thinking far ahead into the future.

My gpa is decent (3.46 from uc berkeley) haven't taken the mcats yet but did research in neurosurgery (didn't like it), 1 publication in ph, worked in bolivia with drs doing surgeries. I am sure i can get into US school, but it might take me an extra year or two.

If you know you want to do ortho, you really shouldn't consider going to the carribean. As I pointed out before, less than 1% of all ortho spots are filled by IMGs. If you want your best shot at ortho, you should go MD or DO. As a DO, you best bet is landing a DO ortho residency, not an allo residency, but after five years of residency, your patients won't care if you are DO trained, or allo trained as long as you can fix fractures and replace joints.

 

[NRAI2001]

If you know you want to do ortho, you really shouldn't consider going to the carribean. As I pointed out before, less than 1% of all ortho spots are filled by IMGs. If you want your best shot at ortho, you should go MD or DO. As a DO, you best bet is landing a DO ortho residency, not an allo residency, but after five years of residency, your patients won't care if you are DO trained, or allo trained as long as you can fix fractures and replace joints.

That is also a very good option. I think i will apply(meaning in 2005) to both DO and MD schools so I will have both options later on.

 

[NRAI2001]

Wow to my surprise i found 2 people matched into ortho and 1 into plastics and a handful into surgery from st. georges school of med in the carri.

What exactly does it mean when u match into surgery? Is it general surgery or is it some kinda of transitional thing?

http://www.sgu.edu/nhome.nsf/webcontent/C03B745AF2A5020685256E6000779B8B?OpenDocument