impact of 3rd year clerkship grades

[BiopsyThis]

Just wondering what kind of weight path residency programs place on 3rd yr clerkship grades. I'm aiming high, so I know everything "counts", but where is the emphasis in terms of the application package? maybe someone could put the following in order of importance: USMLE step 1, USMLE step 2, research/papers, clerkship grades, personal statement, LORs.

Thanks!

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[WiseMentor]

Just wondering what kind of weight path residency programs place on 3rd yr clerkship grades. I'm aiming high, so I know everything "counts", but where is the emphasis in terms of the application package? maybe someone could put the following in order of importance: USMLE step 1, USMLE step 2, research/papers, clerkship grades, personal statement, LORs.

Thanks!

There is no one order to these parameters which will be correct for all programs or for all applicants at any given program. For example, research experience and productivity will matter more to a research-oriented programs that aim to turn out academic pathologists than they would to a program that aims to train community practitioners. Programs view clerkship grades as evidence of your knowledge of medicine, ability to work in a group and willingness to work hard -- all of which are important to pathology training programs and practices.

Similarly, when comparing applicants in order to create a match list programs are comparing apples and oranges (just as applicants are when they compare programs). Some applicants have stronger grades and scores, while others may have better letters or more research experience. Most medical schools report the distribution of grades for all required courses -- so selection committees know whether your "honors" in medicine is exceptional (top 5% of students) or mediocre (75% of students). Because of the salesmanship/advocacy aspect of Dean's letters, many programs don't put a lot of faith in them. Trying to evaluate applicants requires assessing all of the available data and looking at some estimate of the overall package. Any piece of this which is very strong is to your advantage, just as any weak piece will hurt you. If you get an interview, there probably is not any part of your record that is a 'deal breaker' but it doesn't mean that the bad performance in a clinical rotation ("X seemed to be going through the motions during this rotation rather than engaging in patient care") will be overlooked.

Bottom line: the better you do at all tasks, the more attractive a candidate you are to training programs.

 

[mlw03]

agree with wisementor. ms3 grades matter because they show you know some clinical medicine, which definitely makes you a better pathologist. i would add that gen surg and internal med are probably the most important, since they're such diverse clerkships and they are the specialties most interacted with by pathologists.

 

[green mantis]

I was involved in the interview process during my 4th year because I was the chief resident. From what I saw, board scores & grades (throughout medical school) got you an interview.

Since my program wasn't really research oriented, I'm not sure if publications mattered as much. If it was used as a major deciding factor, many of the IMG's would rise to the top of the list. I've seen files where the IMG applicant had more than 10 papers, most as the 1st author. The reason for this is because they either did research in their home country or were working in a research lab in the US before they started residency.

I'm not certain if the personal statement mattered that much since I've seen some pretty bad ones. (I kind of wonder if someone even proofread them.)

Letters may fall into the same category since most applicants would only get letters from people who'd write them a good one. Many tend to be generic & not very useful. I do think it's important to get a letter from a pathologist that you've worked w/. How do you know you even like the field if you've never spent time doing it?


----- Antony

 

[malchik]

Like you I am an MD/PhD student, matched this year. In my experience the clerkship grades didn't matter at all. Only two of my 3rd year grades were in by application time, and they were mediocre to say the least. I had a good step 1, decent LORs and expressed an interest in academics. I think I would have matched anywhere I wanted. So I think you should be fine. The academic name brand places want academicians.

 

[Arctic Char]

i just don't understand the thing about grades . . . i mean, we're on a P/F system, as are a lot of med schools. are PD's just looking for failures as red flags? what is the significance of all "P"'s on a transcript? sure we get written evaluations from our 3rd year clerkships, and our Dean's letter is pretty much a compilation of our 3rd year evals. but, they're most likely the same kind of "salesmanship/advocacy" crap that goes into most Dean's letters . . . i.e. focus on the positive, very little negative. and if it is negative its highly laden with euphemisms. granted, i haven't seen any of our evals yet, so I may be underestimating the level of candidness and "brutal honesty" that go into them. but i just imagine them to be largely forgiving kinds of comments. like the things you'd say to someone who got 3rd place in the special olympics . . . good job! you tried hard, and that makes a real champion! . . . so all that being said, what is it that "grades" actually mean?

as far as i know my evals have all been positive, largely commenting on my interpersonal skills, ability to work in a group, and that i have a strong knowledge base (sometimes. not really the case in OB/Gyn). at least thats what my verbal evaluations have included (we have exit evaluations at the end of our clerkships. so imagine the written aren't too different). but are these considered my 3rd year grades??

 

[docbiohazard]

i just don't understand the thing about grades ... so all that being said, what is it that "grades" actually mean?

I think the real key, especially for Path, is that you don't FAIL any clerkships (without a really really good reason), and that whatever path electives you work in, you do reasonably well in (or at least, in a P/F system, don't FAIL). So I think that's the key to grades. Performing at a higher level, honoring things, etc, just makes you look even better on paper, but I think the biggest thing grade wise is not to FAIL any courses.

I know some places I interviewed had GME institutional rules requiring that prospective residents not have failed any courses in med school and have certain minimum performance on Step 1 and 2... but not sure how stringently those rules are enforced.

DBH