Imperial College vs Guy's, King's and St. Thomas' SOM

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Herm

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Hello,

I've been accepted to Imperial College London (ICL) and Guy's, King's and St. Thomas' School of Medicine (GKT) to study medicine. I'm having problems choosing between the two schools and I'd appreciate your advice on the matter.

First, a little background. I am a mature student (27 yrs, BS Chemical Engineering, MSc Infectious Disease Control). At this point in time I plan to do my medical studies in the UK and then to do a residency and practice in the US.

Does anyone have any thoughts on either the reputation or overall quality of education at the 2 schools?

Here are some of the pro's and con's I am working with. Some of you might know these schools better than I do, so please feel free to add to the lists.


IMPERIAL - PROS

Good reputation. Ranks consistently in the top 4 in the UK. Sometimes knocks off Oxford for #2 spot (rankings based on research)

Lots of professors doing research in which students could potentially participate

School is science-based, but not exclusively medicine

School based in nice part of London (West London)

Good teaching hospitals


IMPERIAL - CONS

Does not take relatively many mature students

Boy:Girl ratio high in favor of boys

Teaching hospitals are further from the city center than GKT's

Large university atmosphere


GKT - PROS

School has a good reputation although it is not ranked as high as Imperial

School takes about 50/350 mature students

Lots more women at GKT than Imperial

Small school which is dedicated to medical sciences

Good teaching hospitals, which are centrally located


GKT - CONS

Facilities not as convenient as Imperial, e.g. library only open 9 am to 10 pm (Imperial = 24 hrs with ID), not many places (relatively speaking) to eat/hang out close by

Academic reputation not as good as Imperial's


These are just a few pros and cons. I'd really appreciate some advice on which school might put me in a better position to come back to the States and practice. Or, which school will provide me with the best training.

THANK YOU!!!

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Congratulations on some wonderful acceptances. :thumbup:

For residency in the States, you could go either way. Both have a good reputation in the US and I doubt the difference between their rankings in the UK league tables makes any difference whatsoever to US residencies. Few people in the US know the ranking difference between Imperial and GKT. The big noise filter known as the Atlantic prevents a lot of in-depth knowledge about the reputation of either of these institutions from being known by most residency directors, and I think that as you apply for a residency in the US the directors will view them with the same regard. In the same way, many people in the UK know that Yale has a great reputation, but they don't know that Johns Hopkins has a better reputation for medicine. See what I mean?

It is worth considering what is the curriculum and schedule of the course at each school, and seeing which one allows you the most convenience to 1) take the USMLE Step 1 and 2 exams, and 2) do an elective in the US during your final year. (You apply directly to US universities/hospitals to take electives by visiting their web site and submitting an application with references.) However, I don't think these two issues are worth the sacrifice of your intuitive first choice. Reputation will I think make a small amount of difference to your postgraduate prospects should you decide to remain in the UK instead. This early in your medical education, unless you have family or other important personal commitments it is very hard to know with certainty what you'd like to do after you graduate.
 
Hiya,
Herm have pm'ed you. Check your private messages!!



Saph
 
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Thanks for message Iliana! :)

Can I ask what your background is and how you know about London med schools?

Do you know if there are huge differences in the quality of teaching at the teaching hospitals? :confused:

IlianaSedai said:
...In the same way, many people in the UK know that Yale has a great reputation, but they don't know that Johns Hopkins has a better reputation for medicine. See what I mean?

Are you saying that GKT actually has a better reputation than Imperial in medicine?

Thanks again. I really do appreciate your advice.

- Herm

:luck: :luck: :luck:
 
I'm an American medical student who has spent a significant amount of time considering the prospects of working in both countries.

Having not actually applied to either of these institutions, I am not in any place to tell you which is "better." What I do observe is that in the US, there are some but not THAT many UK trained doctors. It is very unlikely that those who evaluate your US residency application will know anything about "Imperial vs. GKT" nor will they care. I don't think this is a major factor if you apply for US residency.

However, have you looked at http://www.medschoolguide.co.uk/ ? There's a forum there in which students may be willing to discuss the differences between these schools. In fact, I think there are already one or two threads comparing the London schools posted on the forums.
 
Hi Herm,

Apologies for the late reply, but exams start this coming week and I've been a bit tied up.

Imperial and GKT are both great schools. They are probably equally well known in the US/Canada. Not sure if Imperial has any affiliations with US universities. I believe GKT has fairly close connections with Johns Hopkins and Emory. There are formal elective opportunities at various US universities including JH, Cornell, Harvard, Chicago.

Reasons why I like GKT:

The student population is very diverse - students from all over the world, mature students, religious students, gay students, etc. Everyone seems to get along very well. As a non-science graduate, I went through the foundation course and many of the students were mature students. Although we were split up into med/dentistry and into different smaller sections, we are still close and socialize quite a bit. Being a graduate yourself, you will be accutely aware of the age difference as most students will be 19.

The classes are all taught by professors - all are good, some are great. They are very approachable. The school seems interested in taking students' constructive criticism in modifying the curriculum. Although it's a large med school, many of the classes are taught in smaller group settings.

After expressing an interest in getting involved in research over the summer, my personal tutor arranged for me to participate in three research projects.

The Guy's campus is actually in a great part of London....near some famous pubs, Borough Market, Spitalfields, Brick Lane, Clerkenwell, etc. Imperial is in a great area too.

Personally, I would chose GKT over Imperial...especially if you see yourself as a "people person" and want to practise medicine as opposed to being a career academic.

If you haven't already done so and you wish to read more about research at GKT, check out the Annual Report located on the GKT website. I'll post the link if you can't find it.

Imperial is a great school too - can't go wrong at either place.

Jane
 
Hey Herm,

I'm a 4th year student at GKT and one of my best friends is a 4th year at Imperial. There are some big differences in the structure of the course, especially during the clinical years. We both seem to agree the format of the clinical course at GKT makes more sense (3rd year you do all your general medicine/surgery, 4th year is for specialties -Obs/Gynae,Paeds,A&E/Orthopaedics/Anaesthetics- and 5th year is a pre PRHO year). At Imperial, it's all a bit more random but they also cover things that we don't (for example, we don't get any formal Pathology teaching apart from the tiny bit that's integrated into our systems based teaching....they do). Guy's and St Thomas' Hospitals and King's College Hospital are all excellent quality teaching hospitals. One big drawback here is the size of each intake year......360 is a LOT of people, and I think it's hard to maintain a level of quality with so many people to train.

I've been toying with the idea of working in the US post-qualification, and so will be doing my elective there this summer. There is a formal exhange program with John Hopkins (20 places), Emory (about 4-5 places), and the others that JaneGKT mentioned. At the moment, electives at GKT are 11 weeks long, with 8 weeks of actual clinical work which can be carried out in up to two different geographical locations. I'm carrying out part of my elective with that friend from Imperial I mentioned above, and theirs are 9 weeks which you have to do in one country. I think they have an exchange program with Columbia, amongst others.

I guess overall, you can't really go wrong with either university........the opportunities are there for you to receive a top degree at both. I am of the opinion that the massive numbers of students at GKT will have an effect on the quality of training, and at the moment there's talk of how there might not be enough PRHO posts for our year come August 2005, which is a bit scary. GKT probably is a more social and fun environment, I just worry that the standards might be dropping slightly with the many students they need to squeeze in on all the sites.

Anyway, I hope you manage to extract something useful from this jumbled mess! Good luck with it all......
 
Dear Dire Tribe, JaneGKT, Trinners, IlianaSedai and Saph,

Just wanted to drop you a note to say a big thank you for all the advise and information you have provided. It was all very helpful.

I ended up going with my intuitive first choice -- Imperial -- as IlianaSedai advised. I realized that I liked the campus itself and the location more than that of GKT. I took to heart Dire Tribe's comment about class size. And, I felt that the additional formal teaching in some areas, e.g. pathology, would be slightly more advantageous in preparation for the US board exams.

But that's not to take anything away from GKT. They have a fantastic program -- especially on the clinical side. And, I have nothing but the highest respect for that program.

Thanks again and best wishes,

- Herm
 
Congratulations! Good luck with the move, and above all, enjoy yourself. :cool:
 
Good luck with it all, you sound as if you've made a very considered decision and I'm sure you'll be very happy in South Kensington!
 
I am in the exact same situation. Mature student (24), with undergrad in business from university in the US, but am a UK citizen and am getting UK tuition.

I'm not sure I plan on returning to the US after medical school, but definitely want the option!

I have gotten in to both Imperial and Kings, and am trying to decide. Any more thoughts? How have things changed since the original post?

I know both schools have connections with US residency programs, but do any of the students actually end up getting places over there? Would my US/UK dual citizenship help with this?

Thanks
 
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