Importance of TY/Prelim Year for Fellowships

[Bobcat18]

Anyone know of the importance of TY/Prelim year performance for fellowship? Or is it literally just a formality to complete one / check it off the list?

Thanks in advance!

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[TCOM12]

It's a formality. Some say it's preferred to do surgery pre-lim to get into ESIR. I don't agree with that as your home program will take you if they like you.

If you can swing a kush TY, I'd shoot for that. I can't say what I learned intern year effects my day to day reads. Remember, a lot of the older radiology attendings didn't even do an intern year.

Oh and free food and free parking. When March comes around and you're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, that's what you'll care about. Free food and free parking.

Even if you do land a laid back year, still go to work. No one likes a lazy and entitled intern.

I got to do 10 weeks of real radiology during my intern year (treated like one of the lower levels. Dictate and everything). Not a ton of places let you do that, so it was a plus for me.

 

[irwarrior]

If you have strong consideration of going into IR, I would consider a surgical preliminary position. This shows early commitment and interest in a surgical type specialty. Surgery also gives you a strong foundation in anatomy and post surgical abdomens. The surgeons are pretty good at looking at CT scans. At the recent SIR and some of the discussions is that those who have done surgical internships may be looked upon more favorably than someone who did a TY etc.

It is uncertain how many independent 1 and 2 year IR residencies will be available and so given this it is important for IR to make yourself as competitive as feasible, which includes showing early commitment to the specialty.

 

[Jesus1]

In my experience if you're going into IR, you don't need to kill yourself in a surgery prelim. All you need to learn will come when you get your IR training. Get that cush TY or medicine prelim and don't look back.

 

[irwarrior]

The weakness in IR training historically has been the clinical component. A strong internship is an important first step in developing the clinical and technical skillset vital to go out and compete successfully. At recent SIR meeting, many of the IR program directors favor the surgical preliminary position. If you are afraid of the work or the hours of surgical prelim position, you may want to reconsider IR and consider a procedural DR fellowship which will have less emergencies and lifestyle demands when compared to IR.

 

[TCOM12]

The weakness in IR training historically has been the clinical component. A strong internship is an important first step in developing the clinical and technical skillset vital to go out and compete successfully. At recent SIR meeting, many of the IR program directors favor the surgical preliminary position. If you are afraid of the work or the hours of surgical prelim position, you may want to reconsider IR and consider a procedural DR fellowship which will have less emergencies and lifestyle demands when compared to IR.

While I don't disagree with the benefits of a surgical internship for IR, I also think it depends on what practice you end up in. If you're doing a lot of high end liver work or vascular, then it's probably good to manage complications. But the majority of IR doesn't manage the medical problems of the patients (much like ortho pawning off HTN to the hospitalists). You can learn to manage a PCA drip or a drain during residency. But I also trained at a program with strong IR, so maybe I have a bias.

IR is in a limbo state of being independent and also apart of radiology. It'll be interesting to see where the field goes in the next 20 years.

Oh, and even DR is not lifestyle anymore... It's busy and there is a shift to in house 24/7 even in PP. So, think of it more like ER. Busy shift work and potential to work nights.

Tangent--- if anything, the best thing to do is do intern year at the same place you do residency. You learn the clinicians and the culture of an institution. You learn the workflow. You become friends with the future residents you will speak to on the phone with and can understand when they order something crazy or when you decide to hedge. It's easier to trust someone that you've worked with (or not trust them...) as opposed as someone who is just a name on the bottom of a report or a voice on a phone.

 

[Bobcat18]

So I'm actually already in a TY program (I'm a PGY-1)- apologies for the confusion. My question was does our clinical performance actually matter for applying for fellowship (should I be staying later than expected and going out of my way just to impress faculty)? Or does this year really have no bearing on our future as I've heard from my fellow TYs?

 

[colbgw02]

So I'm actually already in a TY program (I'm a PGY-1)- apologies for the confusion. My question was does our clinical performance actually matter for applying for fellowship (should I be staying later than expected and going out of my way just to impress faculty)? Or does this year really have no bearing on our future as I've heard from my fellow TYs?

Just do enough to stay off of everyone's radar. With the possible exception of IR (and I'm not even sure about that), the only thing that fellowship PDs will care about regarding your internship is if you finished and can produce the relevant paperwork. All of your fellowship application letters will come from your radiology residency.

 

[SeldingerFan78]

Frankly, I don't think people pay much attention to your intern year. It is what you make of it. You could come from a well-known, grueling year, put in little effort, and be a crappy resident. You could go some place no one has ever heard of but get a ton of experience and knock it out of the park as a resident. I think how you perform in residency and who will recommend you is so much more important. Pick the internship that will achieve your goals and let you be who you want to be!

 

[patel1283]

As far as ESIR and doing a surgery prelim, our IR fellowship director told us that he strongly recommends the easiest TY year. I did an easy TY year and am doing just fine in residency.

 

[irwarrior]

This was discussed at IR program director's meeting the past couple of years, and most of them advocated for surgical prelim and then perhaps medicine and only a handful advocated for TY.