Importance of Undergrad Research???

[Undecided12]

I am a nontrad who graduated with a BS in Bio in 1996. I never did undergrad research and I am currently taking A&P and Microbio at a community college. I’m also going to start volunteering at the local hospital. I’m currently exploring the PA/NP or DO route. I haven’t been able to take classes at a University because I work full time during the day and none of the science classes are offered in the evening at any of the local Universities. Hence, I have no opportunity to do research unless I quit my job and go to a University during the day.

Also, will taking community college classes be viewed negatively? Although somewhat old, all my prereqs are complete and taken at a UC.

Will hospital volunteering be enough or do I need to add some type of research? The reason why I’m considering the DO route is because they seem to be more receptive to nontrads and it seems that MD schools almost “require” undergrad research from what I read on the allopathic message boards.

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[nvshelat]

Will hospital volunteering be enough or do I need to add some type of research? The reason why I’m considering the DO route is because they seem to be more receptive to nontrads and it seems that MD schools almost “require” undergrad research from what I read on the allopathic message boards.

Not true - MD schools just want to see that you've done something valuable with your time, unless you're applying to a research instensive school.

 

[laboholic]

This is a fallacy among pre-meds. Research is a great thing when applying to medical schools for many reasons, but there are a lot of people (MD and DO) who get in without it. As long as you have a good reason for going into medicine AND have a respectable activity that fills up some of your free time (not going home and watching tv) you should be fine. I highly recommend that you setup an appointment with an admissions representative at your #1 and they can go through your application draft and tell you if you are missing anything.

Good luck.

 

[Jamers]

I am a nontrad who graduated with a BS in Bio in 1996. I never did undergrad research and I am currently taking A&P and Microbio at a community college. I’m also going to start volunteering at the local hospital. I’m currently exploring the PA/NP or DO route. I haven’t been able to take classes at a University because I work full time during the day and none of the science classes are offered in the evening at any of the local Universities. Hence, I have no opportunity to do research unless I quit my job and go to a University during the day.

Also, will taking community college classes be viewed negatively? Although somewhat old, all my prereqs are complete and taken at a UC.

Will hospital volunteering be enough or do I need to add some type of research? The reason why I’m considering the DO route is because they seem to be more receptive to nontrads and it seems that MD schools almost “require” undergrad research from what I read on the allopathic message boards.

I aggree with the above poster; research is good, but not everyone needs it. My own research was never brought up, even though I've spent far too long in a damn lab and have papers pending for publication. The only advantage it really gave me was being able to talk to the pHD's somewhat on their level.

 

[MedSchoolFool]

Question...

Suppose that you never did any research as an undergrad, but really feel that you want to while in medical school. In other words, you wish to earn your Ph.D along with your medical degree. Is it unrealistic to think that you could get into a DO/Ph.D program without a degree with distinction or published research articles?

Anybody know?

 

[dr.z]

Question...

Suppose that you never did any research as an undergrad, but really feel that you want to while in medical school. In other words, you wish to earn your Ph.D along with your medical degree. Is it unrealistic to think that you could get into a DO/Ph.D program without a degree with distinction or published research articles?

Anybody know?

It is possible to get in without any publications. I believe they would like to see that you have done some research, and you are not coming in without knowing anything about research.

 

[Kubed]

Question...

Suppose that you never did any research as an undergrad, but really feel that you want to while in medical school. In other words, you wish to earn your Ph.D along with your medical degree. Is it unrealistic to think that you could get into a DO/Ph.D program without a degree with distinction or published research articles?

Anybody know?

Haha…. undergrad research. It was awesome to have, and it did come up at a few interviews. At one interview (the school I'm at now) I ended up getting interviewed by a lady who did her PhD under the professor I had just published under. It was funny because we ended up spending as much time talking about our bench time as we did talking about other parts of my app!

As for getting into a DO/PhD program (not even sure if there are any official programs out there) without any prior research experience, it's not going to happen. No doctoral research program will accept you without prior experience. Part of it because they have no example of your work, but mostly no one is going to be willing to make that kind of investment in you if you've never had taste of the life. If you're serious about it, apply to a MS or MSc degree and see what it's like.

 

[Raven Feather]

I had absolutely no research but tons of healthcare experience and had multiple acceptances.

 

[HunterGatherer]

reasearch is not emphasized at DO schools. It helps if you have it but if you do not it is not an issue.

clinical research is one way to go if you are interested in research. Wherever you volunteer ask the PD for opportunites.

 

[laboholic]

Question...

Suppose that you never did any research as an undergrad, but really feel that you want to while in medical school. In other words, you wish to earn your Ph.D along with your medical degree. Is it unrealistic to think that you could get into a DO/Ph.D program without a degree with distinction or published research articles?

Anybody know?

Probably not... but
Personally, I would not even consider a DO/Ph.D. because of the fact that you have to pay for [EDIT]>(most) of it. DO "MSTP" programs are not funded by the NIH, whereas MD MSTP programs are; you dont have to pay for any of your education in an MD MSTP program. That being said, there are other facets that you can pursue as a DO. There are a bunch of (competitive) 1 year fellowship programs where you take a year between M2 and M3 years to do research. They provide a stipend (~24k). Some examples are Dorris Duke and Howard Hughes. A lot of medical schools also have summer research programs that you can do to see if you like it. If you still want the DO, PhD, graduate and then apply for a PhD program that provides free tuition and a stipend.

 

[Jamers]

Question...

Suppose that you never did any research as an undergrad, but really feel that you want to while in medical school. In other words, you wish to earn your Ph.D along with your medical degree. Is it unrealistic to think that you could get into a DO/Ph.D program without a degree with distinction or published research articles?

Anybody know?

I think the first thing you have to establish is if you REALLY want to do research. If you have never done it, I would STRONGLY recommend that you try to get some exposure. I myself was pushing around the idea of research (PhD dual degree or something) but, after working in a professional lab in Sydney, doing 45 hours a week of work and getting NO RESULTS, I decided I had better things to do with my life. I am sure everyone has similar experiences.

 

[MossPoh]

It seems to be one of those things that EVERYONE has on these boards, but I am under a similiar boat as you with the no research. I feel I'll be fine because there are other things to put on applications...and not every person is given the chance, or has the time to do research. I am in a weird limbo where pretty much every research gig at my school is considered work-study and I am not eligible for work study, but on the flip side I also have to work to make enough money to be able to do things like...eat. That combined with a double major in non research oriented/scientific fields kind of eliminates chances. Bottom line, I don't think lack of research is a deal breaker for school.... at least I hope not and it'd be a bad move on school parts considering they could be skipping over potentially great doctors just because they didn't get the oppurtunity to do all the lab stuff.

 

[mj1878]

I am a nontrad who graduated with a BS in Bio in 1996. I never did undergrad research and I am currently taking A&P and Microbio at a community college. I’m also going to start volunteering at the local hospital. I’m currently exploring the PA/NP or DO route. I haven’t been able to take classes at a University because I work full time during the day and none of the science classes are offered in the evening at any of the local Universities. Hence, I have no opportunity to do research unless I quit my job and go to a University during the day.

Also, will taking community college classes be viewed negatively? Although somewhat old, all my prereqs are complete and taken at a UC.

Will hospital volunteering be enough or do I need to add some type of research? The reason why I’m considering the DO route is because they seem to be more receptive to nontrads and it seems that MD schools almost “require” undergrad research from what I read on the allopathic message boards.

Do research only if it is interesting and rewarding to you. A school will not reject/accept you based on your research or lack thereof. It will not be the "tie breaker". As much as is made about DO schools having lower MCAT and GPA standards, still VERY MUCH weight is given to these two numbers. Although lower than MD schools, they are still high.

 

[MedSchoolFool]

Probably not... but
Personally, I would not even consider a DO/Ph.D. because of the fact that you have to pay for ALL of it. DO "MSTP" programs are not funded by the NIH, whereas MD MSTP programs are; you dont have to pay for any of your education in an MD MSTP program. That being said, there are other facets that you can pursue as a DO. There are a bunch of (competitive) 1 year fellowship programs where you take a year between M2 and M3 years to do research. They provide a stipend (~24k). Some examples are Dorris Duke and Howard Hughes. A lot of medical schools also have summer research programs that you can do to see if you like it. If you still want the DO, PhD, graduate and then apply for a PhD program that provides free tuition and a stipend.

Whoooaahh!!! I did not know that DO/Ph.D programs weren't funded. That really bites! But it is consistent with the fact that DO schools are less research oriented than MD schools, so I'm not too surprised.

I actually do have some research experience, but not the hard science kind. I have research credits on my transcript for criminal justice/psychological research that investigated the role of complicated scientific testimony in jury decision making. I just looked at my transcript and this research is listed as a PSYC 366 Independent Study class.

Sigh...is there any chance that a prospective medical student could do a MD/Ph.D in which the Ph.D was more soft science based. I mean, don't get me wrong! I would love to do lab based hard science research, but I have to agree with an earlier post that said I'm pretty much out of the running for that kind of investment from a med school since I have no prior experience other than basic lab classes. But I do think there are plenty of valuable sociological phenomena in medicine that need to be researched and understood at the physician level by physicians themselves. Probably not a chance of being funded for anything like this is there?

Does anyone know of any med schools that fund soft science research for their med students? I guess I just wouldn't think it was worth it if I had to pay for the privilege of doing research since that would only increase my debt once I was finished. I'm going to see what I can find out about this.

 

[laboholic]

Whoooaahh!!! I did not know that DO/Ph.D programs weren't funded. That really bites! But it is consistent with the fact that DO schools are less research oriented than MD schools, so I'm not too surprised.

I actually do have some research experience, but not the hard science kind. I have research credits on my transcript for criminal justice/psychological research that investigated the role of complicated scientific testimony in jury decision making. I just looked at my transcript and this research is listed as a PSYC 366 Independent Study class.

Sigh...is there any chance that a prospective medical student could do a MD/Ph.D in which the Ph.D was more soft science based. I mean, don't get me wrong! I would love to do lab based hard science research, but I have to agree with an earlier post that said I'm pretty much out of the running for that kind of investment from a med school since I have no prior experience other than basic lab classes. But I do think there are plenty of valuable sociological phenomena in medicine that need to be researched and understood at the physician level by physicians themselves. Probably not a chance of being funded for anything like this is there?

Does anyone know of any med schools that fund soft science research for their med students? I guess I just wouldn't think it was worth it if I had to pay for the privilege of doing research since that would only increase my debt once I was finished. I'm going to see what I can find out about this.

I know an MD/PhD student who did his PhD on protein structure prediction or something in that relm. All of his work was done on the computer and he did not do any "wet" bench work. I dont know about sociological/psychological sciences though. Ask in the MSTP forum. You could probably do it.

 

[HunterGatherer]

medschoolfool,

UMDNJSOM gives you a stipend and free tuition(loan forgiveness) provided you complete the DO/PhD program. During interviews we were told they were trying to increase the stipend. It was a rather large increase but I forgot how much. I made a post about it in November. I'm not up to date on the financial issues recently posted on SDN and unsure if that changes those plans.

i'm sure there are other DO schools offering something similar if you look around a bit more.

http://www3.umdnj.edu/gsbstrat/DO-PhD/DO_PhD.htm

Financial Assistance

D.O./Ph.D. Scholarships are available to all accepted applicants to the Program. Scholarships include tuition deferrals/waivers and a stipend during all years in the Program. For 2005-2006, these stipends are:

• Years 1-2 $6,500 (D.O. years)
• Years 3-5 $24,000 (Ph.D. years)
• Years 6-7 $8,500 (D.O. years)

Students receive a forgivable tuition loan for the first two years of the medical school curriculum. If the student completes the Ph.D. portion, the loan is forgiven and SOM will pay the last two years of the medical school tuition. If the student elects not to pursue a Ph.D. then the loan for the first two years of medical school tuition MUST be repaid.

 

[pokeytu]

Any Ph.D. program should supply complete funding for a very minimum of the 3 years you are getting your Ph.D. Any time you write a grant you include a stipend to pay the graduate student in the budget. If a lab does not have funding already BE VERY CAREFUL about joining. It will be very difficult to obtain funding complete and publish the research in 3 years.

 

[RuDownWithOPP]

I havent done any research, with a strong MCAT and GPA I had no trouble gaining admission.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I am a nontrad who graduated with a BS in Bio in 1996. I never did undergrad research and I am currently taking A&P and Microbio at a community college. I’m also going to start volunteering at the local hospital. I’m currently exploring the PA/NP or DO route. I haven’t been able to take classes at a University because I work full time during the day and none of the science classes are offered in the evening at any of the local Universities. Hence, I have no opportunity to do research unless I quit my job and go to a University during the day.

Also, will taking community college classes be viewed negatively? Although somewhat old, all my prereqs are complete and taken at a UC.

Will hospital volunteering be enough or do I need to add some type of research? The reason why I’m considering the DO route is because they seem to be more receptive to nontrads and it seems that MD schools almost “require” undergrad research from what I read on the allopathic message boards.

1. I never did any research.

2. I did classes at a community college.

3. Hospital volunteering (clinical experience) is PREFERRED to research for DO schools. I would recommend following a specific physician in the ER so that you can get a recommendation letter from him later.

--I interviewed at 1 MD school and 3 DO schools (turned down a 4th interview)

 

[laboholic]

3 previous threads about DO/PhD:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=194161

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=2393275&postcount=2

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=206409

 

[FutureDocDO]

I got accepted WITHOUT any research or publications. I also retook a couple of classes at a Community College to raise my GPA.