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Important Life Lesson for New Grads and Early Career Doctors...

Nov 21, 1998
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I went out to get the mail yesterday and my neighbor "Joe," saunters over and asks, "Did you get your stimulus check yet, Doc?"

"No, Joe," I say, "I don't anyone around here is on that list."

"Wrong!" Joe exclaims. "Fatima and I got ours yesterday..."

Joe & Fatima live in a neighborhood with an average home price of $600K. They have three kids. Fatima is active in the school PTO, organizes the local women's tennis team and tournaments, and chairs the annual Rotary Holiday Gala. They have two homes--one locally and one in Whistler, BC. The Whistler home has been in their family for ages and Fatima mostly rents it out as a VRBO except during the winter when they use it host fabulous ski parties. Joe "day trades" and works 3 days per week for a local non-profit that promotes sustainable farming methods and carbon-neutral energy policies. Not only does the work resonate with his deeply held values, but the health benefits for his family are great. Joe and Fatima met in the 1990s at a tech company in Seattle that was purchased. He was a developer and she worked in human resources. He's been "functionally retired" since shortly after they met.

What knowledge do Joe & Fatima possess, that isn't taught in medical school, that rewards them with a COVID-19 stimulus check from the Government while his erstwhile neighbors (business owners and professionals) scrape by hoping for better days?

#RichDadPoorDad
 
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gaseous_clay

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It’s not like the feds did a great job of ensuring account accuracy when depositing these checks. They even sent them to dead people.


 
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GlowInTheDark

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I went out to get the mail yesterday and my neighbor "Joe," saunters over and asks, "Did you get your stimulus check yet, Doc?"

"No, Joe," I say, "I don't anyone around here is on that list."

"Wrong!" Joe exclaims. "Fatima and I got ours yesterday..."

Joe & Fatima live in a neighborhood with an average home price of $600K. They have three kids. Fatima is active in the school PTO, organizes the local women's tennis team and tournaments, and chairs the annual Rotary Holiday Gala. They have two homes--one locally and one in Whistler, BC. The Whistler home has been in their family for ages and Fatima mostly rents it out as a VRBO except during the winter when they use it host fabulous ski parties. Joe "day trades" and works 3 days per week for a local non-profit that promotes sustainable farming methods and carbon-neutral energy policies. Not only does the work resonate with his deeply held values, but the health benefits for his family are great. Joe and Fatima met in the 1990s at a tech company in Seattle that was purchased. He was a developer and she worked in human resources. He's been "functionally retired" since shortly after they met.

What knowledge do Joe & Fatima possess, that isn't taught in medical school, that rewards them with a COVID-19 stimulus check from the Government while his erstwhile neighbors (business owners and professionals) scrape by hoping for better days?

#RichDadPoorDad

One thing Joe doesn’t seem to possess is the knowledge of social awareness.
 
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SSdoc33

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  1. Attending Physician
I went out to get the mail yesterday and my neighbor "Joe," saunters over and asks, "Did you get your stimulus check yet, Doc?"

"No, Joe," I say, "I don't anyone around here is on that list."

"Wrong!" Joe exclaims. "Fatima and I got ours yesterday..."

Joe & Fatima live in a neighborhood with an average home price of $600K. They have three kids. Fatima is active in the school PTO, organizes the local women's tennis team and tournaments, and chairs the annual Rotary Holiday Gala. They have two homes--one locally and one in Whistler, BC. The Whistler home has been in their family for ages and Fatima mostly rents it out as a VRBO except during the winter when they use it host fabulous ski parties. Joe "day trades" and works 3 days per week for a local non-profit that promotes sustainable farming methods and carbon-neutral energy policies. Not only does the work resonate with his deeply held values, but the health benefits for his family are great. Joe and Fatima met in the 1990s at a tech company in Seattle that was purchased. He was a developer and she worked in human resources. He's been "functionally retired" since shortly after they met.

What knowledge do Joe & Fatima possess, that isn't taught in medical school, that rewards them with a COVID-19 stimulus check from the Government while his erstwhile neighbors (business owners and professionals) scrape by hoping for better days?

#RichDadPoorDad

you will never be happy.

you are always looking at what spoils other people attain with jealousy. thats not way to live

more than likely, joe and fatima have a low annual income, and thus qualify for the stimulus, while most of us don't. yes, it really stinks to make make so much money that we dont qualify. joe and fatima probably spend their money foolishly. you have no idea what is in their bank account.

finally, im 50% convinced that joe and faima don't even exist, and that this is another one of your "woe is me" hypotheticals to try to elicit some sort of motivational or supportive response. news flash: covid-19 sucks for all of us

also, your OP title is a misnomer. what is the important life lesson? the grass is always greener?
 
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Nov 21, 1998
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you will never be happy.

you are always looking at what spoils other people attain with jealousy. thats not way to live

more than likely, joe and fatima have a low annual income, and thus qualify for the stimulus, while most of us don't. yes, it really stinks to make make so much money that we dont qualify. joe and fatima probably spend their money foolishly. you have no idea what is in their bank account.

finally, im 50% convinced that joe and faima don't even exist, and that this is another one of your "woe is me" hypotheticals to try to elicit some sort of motivational or supportive response. news flash: covid-19 sucks for all of us

also, your OP title is a misnomer. what is the important life lesson? the grass is always greener?

You're close, but not quite right. Joe & Fatima do exist and they DO have a very low annual income because they learned early in their lives that not all INCOME is taxed the same way. Carried interest, dividends, rents, and distributions are preferred over wages.

They embraced FIRE in their 20s, eschewed education debt, and built wealth strategically through real estate and other initiatives.

The rest of your psychologizing is wrong. My overarching point is that lifelong professional financial education and wealth-building strategies are omitted from our medical education, but medical schools have no qualms about letting medical students take out huge loans that impact their financial trajectories forever.
 
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thecentral09

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You're close, but not quite right. Joe & Fatima do exist and they DO have a very low annual income because they learned early in their lives that not all INCOME is taxed the same way. Carried interest, dividends, rents, and distributions are preferred over wages.

They embraced FIRE in their 20s, eschewed education debt, and built wealth strategically through real estate and other initiatives.

The rest of your psychologizing is wrong. My overarching point is that lifelong professional financial education and wealth-building strategies are omitted from our medical education, but medical schools have no qualms about letting medical students take out huge loans that impact their financial trajectories forever.

Knocked it out of the park! I also have multiple acquaintances who are mid thirties, multi millionaires, some earned, some not, that are functionally retired who received a check when I, who still has plenty of debt had to take a pay cut this year, did not receive one.
In the long run, we will all be fine, but using last years income as a measure for who gets and who doesn’t is not the best measure
 
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Piebaldi

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You're close, but not quite right. Joe & Fatima do exist and they DO have a very low annual income because they learned early in their lives that not all INCOME is taxed the same way. Carried interest, dividends, rents, and distributions are preferred over wages.

They embraced FIRE in their 20s, eschewed education debt, and built wealth strategically through real estate and other initiatives.

The rest of your psychologizing is wrong. My overarching point is that lifelong professional financial education and wealth-building strategies are omitted from our medical education, but medical schools have no qualms about letting medical students take out huge loans that impact their financial trajectories forever.

Yes! your last paragraph is right on. And for those of us who try to obtain this educationa bout how to run a practice, how to manage finances, etc. we are looked at as "how dare you!" type of thing. Residents need to have education on how to manage finances, practices, the business aspect of medicine. If they don't learn in residency, it will be a hard landing once they start practice. It should absolutely be part of medical/resident education.
 

SSdoc33

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You're close, but not quite right. Joe & Fatima do exist and they DO have a very low annual income because they learned early in their lives that not all INCOME is taxed the same way. Carried interest, dividends, rents, and distributions are preferred over wages.

They embraced FIRE in their 20s, eschewed education debt, and built wealth strategically through real estate and other initiatives.

The rest of your psychologizing is wrong. My overarching point is that lifelong professional financial education and wealth-building strategies are omitted from our medical education, but medical schools have no qualms about letting medical students take out huge loans that impact their financial trajectories forever.

ok. let me me get this straight. just so i understand. you want recent grads to be careful of how much money they take out in loans (even though they already taken out all their loan money) and to invest in alternate revenue streams and diversity. and you get your point across by bitching about not getting a stimulus check.

i agree that medical education should offer more teaching on personal finance. you can just start off that way next time.

if any of us is getting a stimulus check, then you are doing something very very wrong.
 
Nov 21, 1998
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ok. let me me get this straight. just so i understand. you want recent grads to be careful of how much money they take out in loans (even though they already taken out all their loan money) and to invest in alternate revenue streams and diversity. and you get your point across by bitching about not getting a stimulus check.

i agree that medical education should offer more teaching on personal finance. you can just start off that way next time.

if any of us is getting a stimulus check, then you are doing something very very wrong.

What are Joe and Fatima doing wrong??
 

ragnathor

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Good for Joe and Fatima. They probably had a combination of hard work and a lot of luck working for tech in the 1990s.

There are nearly 1 million physicians. I don't know how many tech millionaires but probably a lot less. We don't hear all the stories of those who went bust in the .com bubble and the real estate bubbles. Most physicians probably did okay though.

I agree physician financial education is very poor and unfortunately we become targets for financial advisors, poor investments, and many of us are spendthrifts such a long career track.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
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The rest of your psychologizing is wrong. My overarching point is that lifelong professional financial education and wealth-building strategies are omitted from our medical education, but medical schools have no qualms about letting medical students take out huge loans that impact their financial trajectories forever.
I think med school should teach something about practice management and malpractice liability but not FIRE (or gourmet cooking). These are your responsibility, as an individual.
 
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Nov 21, 1998
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when you see a white car, you say its green, don't you?

joe and fatima are not doctors making a big salary. completely different animal. if you come into money younger and invest wisely, good for you. most docs are not in that position, and you know it

Should doctors be punished by not receiving a stimulus check while others with similar or greater wealth net worth are not? What are you arguing for?
 

SSdoc33

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its your post. what are YOU arguing for? everybody gets a stimulus check, including warren buffett and bill gates? i dont think its unfair that i dont get the 1-2K. ill live. others need it much more than me.

should there be a different metric as to who gets it? fine. the gvt can barely tie its own shoes let alone delve into bank statements, international real estate, and other holdings.

also, and this is crucial: doctors aren't being punished. others are being helped. the fact that others get a check does not negatively affect you. you sound like my 5 year old when her brother gets an extra half scoop of ice cream
 
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Ducttape

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Joe and Fatima are "gaming" the system because the government is using the concept that yearly wage = wealth.

this nonequivalency is used a lot, particularly by wealthy 0.5% ers to justify not paying taxes.


in their behalf, it is most likely unintentional - they did not go out seeking this extra money. would it be better that they give back the money? not if they just give it back to the government, because its unlikely that that money will ever reach the needy, but donating - to a food bank, for example - would be a wonderful act of compassion and generosity.
 
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deleted993114

its your post. what are YOU arguing for? everybody gets a stimulus check, including warren buffett and bill gates? i dont think its unfair that i dont get the 1-2K. ill live. others need it much more than me.

should there be a different metric as to who gets it? fine. the gvt can barely tie its own shoes let alone delve into bank statements, international real estate, and other holdings.

also, and this is crucial: doctors aren't being punished. others are being helped. the fact that others get a check does not negatively affect you. you sound like my 5 year old when her brother gets an extra half scoop of ice cream

My daughter, a fourth year medical student at a top 25 school, has an undergrad business degree and is in an MD/business track that does actually teach issues of medical economics. She is a whiz with efficiency software program development, and I encouraged her to expand upon that. However, she is interested in just nuts and bolts medicine and wants to be on staff at a university when done with residency.

1. MOST medical schools are offering courses on business. They are addressing this shortcoming of the past.

2. There are separate MD/business pathways within the medical schools which allow more coursework on business for those interested.

3. MOST medical schools are offering an MD/MBA pathway as well, which can secure added business training for those who want degrees.

4. The MD/PhD program does allow for PhDs in business as well as basic science.

5. In my former large multispecialty clinic, I found I knew more about medical business than those with special training, just by graduating from the school of hard knocks. Keep in mind these medical/business classes/meetings are all taught by the same people, so they are somewhat inbred and often lack common sense.

I really do not care how much other people earn or if they are gaming the system to acquire more cash. I look at life like a game of golf; just pay attention to your game, as you cannot control the performance of others and it is thus irrelevant.

I know A LOT of people who make more cash than I do and have more cash saved. I have friends that have their own private jets and helicopters (I do too, but mine are only 12 inches long). Good for them- they all earned it. Fortunately, most everything I like in life is cheap- hiking, working on the farm, reading, watching old movies, bird watching, tending bees, and socializing with my wife and kids. I can't think of a single consumer item I want to buy or have a desire to acquire. Strive for peace, not happiness, as no one can be giddy 24/7 and material things won't get you there.

Remember what Henry Ford said when asked how much money is enough? "Just a little bit more"! Money has become the token by which we measure success in life, rather than one's personal peace. The more you have, the more you will want.
 
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Ferrismonk

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its your post. what are YOU arguing for? everybody gets a stimulus check, including warren buffett and bill gates? i dont think its unfair that i dont get the 1-2K. ill live. others need it much more than me.

should there be a different metric as to who gets it? fine. the gvt can barely tie its own shoes let alone delve into bank statements, international real estate, and other holdings.

also, and this is crucial: doctors aren't being punished. others are being helped. the fact that others get a check does not negatively affect you. you sound like my 5 year old when her brother gets an extra half scoop of ice cream
Agree with you except the last point. While we aren't being punished now, doctors will be punished when they raise taxes on the evil 1% to pay for this "stimulus".
 
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SSdoc33

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Agree with you except the last point. While we aren't being punished now, doctors will be punished when they raise taxes on the evil 1% to pay for this "stimulus".

possible. of course, it wouldnt be so much as a tax raise, as it would be a return to pre-DJT levels. trump's tax cut put us in a horrible place in case there was a recession -- or worse, a depression. it'd be nice to have a bigger revenue reserve. remember when we were sold on the bill of goods that tax revenues would be accounted for by the increased economic activity of the tax break? what a crock of sh$t that turned out to be.

once we get the virus under control, the country is going to have to look at its balance sheet in a whole new light. think New Deal type of stuff.....
 
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Should doctors be punished by not receiving a stimulus check while others with similar or greater wealth net worth are not? What are you arguing for?
It's a legit point that high net worth individuals shouldn't be getting govt assistance.

I don't know if it's opening a can of worms but there could be one additional question on tax filing forms about your approximate net worth.
 
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ragnathor

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It's a legit point that high net worth individuals shouldn't be getting govt assistance.

I don't know if it's opening a can of worms but there could be one additional question on tax filing forms about your approximate net worth.
While I agree with you, it's hard to argue for this but not also consider net worth in the tax system. A not so popular here Democratic candidate included a wealth tax in his campaign.

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geauxg8rs

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My daughter, a fourth year medical student at a top 25 school, has an undergrad business degree and is in an MD/business track that does actually teach issues of medical economics. She is a whiz with efficiency software program development, and I encouraged her to expand upon that. However, she is interested in just nuts and bolts medicine and wants to be on staff at a university when done with residency.

1. MOST medical schools are offering courses on business. They are addressing this shortcoming of the past.

2. There are separate MD/business pathways within the medical schools which allow more coursework on business for those interested.

3. MOST medical schools are offering an MD/MBA pathway as well, which can secure added business training for those who want degrees.

4. The MD/PhD program does allow for PhDs in business as well as basic science.

5. In my former large multispecialty clinic, I found I knew more about medical business than those with special training, just by graduating from the school of hard knocks. Keep in mind these medical/business classes/meetings are all taught by the same people, so they are somewhat inbred and often lack common sense.

I really do not care how much other people earn or if they are gaming the system to acquire more cash. I look at life like a game of golf; just pay attention to your game, as you cannot control the performance of others and it is thus irrelevant.

I know A LOT of people who make more cash than I do and have more cash saved. I have friends that have their own private jets and helicopters (I do too, but mine are only 12 inches long). Good for them- they all earned it. Fortunately, most everything I like in life is cheap- hiking, working on the farm, reading, watching old movies, bird watching, tending bees, and socializing with my wife and kids. I can't think of a single consumer item I want to buy or have a desire to acquire. Strive for peace, not happiness, as no one can be giddy 24/7 and material things won't get you there.

Remember what Henry Ford said when asked how much money is enough? "Just a little bit more"! Money has become the token by which we measure success in life, rather than one's personal peace. The more you have, the more you will want.
How do you get into taking care of bees?
 
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Ferrismonk

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How do you get into taking care of bees?
Start here.

Then take this online course

Read this book for beginning basics
Amazon product
Then read/reference the Beekeeping bible as needed.
Amazon product
Once you're ready, you can purchase everything you need online. Yes, even bee nucs/packages/queens.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr

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i have a feeling she was using the board as some sort of legal leverage
 

SSdoc33

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Piebaldi said:
Continue overstepping over the line and making inappropriate suggestions (aka libel) and continue harassing me and I can assure you that the legalities against you will start. I won't warn you twice.

That’s what did it..

I thought it was actually a different scandal/problem she had that i am aware of
 
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Kuratz

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The opportunity cost of medicine levels the playing field immensely. Just because you are making good money now as a new attending doesn't mean you have a better financial house than Joe who has been working a lot longer and with presumably less debt. Also consider the further opportunity cost of owning a home. My parents, who got stimulus checks this year also, bought their house for $300k ten years ago (~$340k in 2020 dollars). Zillow estimates that house is worth around $600-650k since housing prices have continued to rise significantly. Doctors miss out on equity gains on their house and effectively get a little priced out of any given neighborhood each year that passes where housing prices rise. That's not to say Docs can't pass a lot of people (and quite quickly) by working a few years and living modestly, but it's a bit naive to think a freshly minted physician is suddenly rich because they made $400k one year.

The other thing is that you don't know what Joe's real financial status is. He could be maxed out on a mortgage and live paycheck to paycheck with minimal savings. He could also have family money. A Doc maxing out a mortgage and car payment would look pretty wealthy... but lift the hood and things may appear different.
 
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Nov 21, 1998
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Over the rainbow
  1. Attending Physician
The opportunity cost of medicine levels the playing field immensely. Just because you are making good money now as a new attending doesn't mean you have a better financial house than Joe who has been working a lot longer and with presumably less debt. Also consider the further opportunity cost of owning a home. My parents, who got stimulus checks this year also, bought their house for $300k ten years ago (~$340k in 2020 dollars). Zillow estimates that house is worth around $600-650k since housing prices have continued to rise significantly. Doctors miss out on equity gains on their house and effectively get a little priced out of any given neighborhood each year that passes where housing prices rise. That's not to say Docs can't pass a lot of people (and quite quickly) by working a few years and living modestly, but it's a bit naive to think a freshly minted physician is suddenly rich because they made $400k one year.

The other thing is that you don't know what Joe's real financial status is. He could be maxed out on a mortgage and live paycheck to paycheck with minimal savings. He could also have family money. A Doc maxing out a mortgage and car payment would look pretty wealthy... but lift the hood and things may appear different.

@SSdoc33 See, this is an example of a THOUGHTFUL response. No innuendo, psychologizing, or paranoid thinking.
 
D

deleted993114

How do you get into taking care of bees?

I have a farm and started doing it for fun. It is great for the environment and is pretty satisfying. I have about 250 acres which a farmer farms and 250 acres of "fun land". I planted a good sized orchard to provide apples for the deer, about 50 acres of wildflowers, and am planning on planting grape vines for the bats and birds. I get eagles, ospreys, and bobcats from the fish in my pond- they are fun to watch. I have dug some wells and erected vintage windmills over them so I can water the orchard. I have a big ass barn with a woodshop where I make things- next up will be the wooden body for a '46 ford from scratch (I have other woodies that are completed). That project is a little difficult, as you really need to be very handy with a router and shaping wood in three dimensions. Finger joints and routing takes a lot of practice.

When I retire, I am going to make moonshine as well. I personally do not drink, but think the process looks very fun. Gotta be careful with methanol coming off the first componants, so it requres chemical assays of the product. I have seen it done many times, but have not performed the whole process myself. There are really nice copper stills on the internet; you just need a $25 permit for "fuel production", which is okay, as long as you don't sell it.
 
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deleted993114

I have a fuel alcohol permit and have made a few gallons of moonshine. Built my own copper still. Clawhammer supply kit. Fun hobby.

Cool- It sure looks like fun.

Oddly, I don't drink at all. However, the process seems very interesting. I visited a few small distillers when we lived in east TN and found the process very intriguing. I guess I would just store the stuff in my barn; however, from what I have gleaned, the selection of the type of barrel is critical.

Was it pretty fun?
 
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lonelobo

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From January post...not sure why I care lol
Beach bum said:
Wait a minute . Dude omens on here with that kind of question, then says he was looking to pay some schmuck 2 bills an hour and I’m the “douche”?!!! Lol. Fwiw really didn’t think this was serious post...
Piebaldi ----First I'm not a dude. Second - how much do you think anesthesiologists in an outpatient chill gig make? In most places I've been, the daily rate for an 8 hour day for anesthesiologists is about $1800-2k. Not sure why you are pretending that it's sky high. I'ts not. So please stop.
 
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