"Impressive Qualifications"

[jason3278]

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My friend is a medical student at a large state school. The other day he was telling me that he interviewed an applicant and was really impressed by his qualifications. I then asked, "such as"?

My friend then immediately responded, "well, his dad is MD, his mom is a PhD in physiology...."

WTF?

How do his parent's credentials make this guy any more qualified than anyone else? Am I going to be judged by what my parents do? I come from an upbringing that was probably FAR different than this guy's. I guess I should keep that info to myself. I wouldn't want someone on the interview panel to find me less than impressive because of my non-affluent upbringing. 😡

 

[docbill]

! edit

 

[MoosePilot]

My friend is a medical student at a large state school. The other day he was telling me that he interviewed an applicant and was really impressed by his qualifications. I then asked, "such as"?

My friend then immediately responded, "well, his dad is MD, his mom is a PhD in physiology...."

WTF?

How do his parent's credentials make this guy any more qualified than anyone else? Am I going to be judged by what my parents do? I come from an upbringing that was probably FAR different than this guy's. I guess I should keep that info to myself. I wouldn't want someone on the interview panel to find me less than impressive because of my non-affluent upbringing. 😡

You should ask your friend what he was thinking/what he meant.

I think the only ways that kind of background really helps an applicant is through the advantages it creates that reflect on the app. For instance, good upbringing will probably help a student get into a better school and mentoring might be reflected in better grades. ECs might be better, because MD parent can help with volunteer/shadow opportunities (maybe friends so the applicant didn't just shadow father/mother). There might also be a legacy advantage at the parents' alma mater.

The disadvantaged applicant will impress the adcom through having been able to achieve a lot without much help and having had to overcome a lot of obstacles.

The applicant who doesn't gain from any of this is the one who isn't particularly advantaged but isn't disadvantaged. Most applicants are probably in the middle, honestly.

Don't worry about it! Be the best applicant you can be and don't sweat this stuff. It really doesn't matter and if it does, you can't change it anyway.

 

[jason3278]

You should ask your friend what he was thinking/what he meant.

I think the only ways that kind of background really helps an applicant is through the advantages it creates that reflect on the app. For instance, good upbringing will probably help a student get into a better school and mentoring might be reflected in better grades. ECs might be better, because MD parent can help with volunteer/shadow opportunities (maybe friends so the applicant didn't just shadow father/mother). There might also be a legacy advantage at the parents' alma mater.

The disadvantaged applicant will impress the adcom through having been able to achieve a lot without much help and having had to overcome a lot of obstacles.

The applicant who doesn't gain from any of this is the one who isn't particularly advantaged but isn't disadvantaged. Most applicants are probably in the middle, honestly.

Don't worry about it! Be the best applicant you can be and don't sweat this stuff. It really doesn't matter and if it does, you can't change it anyway.

I didn't even think to ask him until later....

 

[Law2Doc]

My friend is a medical student at a large state school. The other day he was telling me that he interviewed an applicant and was really impressed by his qualifications. I then asked, "such as"?

My friend then immediately responded, "well, his dad is MD, his mom is a PhD in physiology...."

WTF?

How do his parent's credentials make this guy any more qualified than anyone else? Am I going to be judged by what my parents do? I come from an upbringing that was probably FAR different than this guy's. I guess I should keep that info to myself. I wouldn't want someone on the interview panel to find me less than impressive because of my non-affluent upbringing. 😡

I seriously doubt your friend is reflective of that or any other med school. Sounds like he is easilly impressed anyhow. A significant number of kids of doctors become doctors, so he should have seen plenty of folks with parents with advanced degrees - was he impressed by all of them? Then again, perhaps the doctors' kids don't often interview at state schools as they can afford the more expensive places. 😕 Hopefully this was just one of many reasons he found this applicant "impressive".

 

[jason3278]

I seriously doubt your friend is reflective of that or any other med school. Sounds like he is easilly impressed anyhow. A significant number of kids of doctors become doctors, so he should have seen plenty of folks with parents with advanced degrees - was he impressed by all of them? Then again, perhaps the doctors' kids don't often interview at state schools as they can afford the more expensive places. 😕 Hopefully this was just one of many reasons he found this applicant "impressive".

It was. The guy had plenty of other attributes. I just thought it was weird that my friend mentioned the guy's parents first when listing them.

 

[LizzyM]

You should ask your friend what he was thinking/what he meant.

I think the only ways that kind of background really helps an applicant is through the advantages it creates that reflect on the app. For instance, good upbringing will probably help a student get into a better school and mentoring might be reflected in better grades. ECs might be better, because MD parent can help with volunteer/shadow opportunities (maybe friends so the applicant didn't just shadow father/mother). There might also be a legacy advantage at the parents' alma mater.

The disadvantaged applicant will impress the adcom through having been able to achieve a lot without much help and having had to overcome a lot of obstacles.

The applicant who doesn't gain from any of this is the one who isn't particularly advantaged but isn't disadvantaged. Most applicants are probably in the middle, honestly.

Don't worry about it! Be the best applicant you can be and don't sweat this stuff. It really doesn't matter and if it does, you can't change it anyway.

I expect more of an applicant who has had every advantage (parent(s) who are physicians or other professionals, excellent H.S., etc) compared with someone who came from a working class family in a rural town or inner city. That is to say, I expect that the student whose parents are both docs to have been able to easily find a research or medically related volunteer position than the applicant whose parents run a take-out food business. If the ECs are light and the applicant comes from a high socio-economic class, there is a thought that the applicant didn't do as much as might have been possible. If the applicant is first in the family to go to college, particularly if the applicant had an off-campus job in addition to school, then there is less expectation that the student would have multiple opportunities for research, community service and leadershiop.

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

Your friend is weird. Enough said.

 

[MoosePilot]

I expect more of an applicant who has had every advantage (parent(s) who are physicians or other professionals, excellent H.S., etc) compared with someone who came from a working class family in a rural town or inner city. That is to say, I expect that the student whose parents are both docs to have been able to easily find a research or medically related volunteer position than the applicant whose parents run a take-out food business. If the ECs are light and the applicant comes from a high socio-economic class, there is a thought that the applicant didn't do as much as might have been possible. If the applicant is first in the family to go to college, particularly if the applicant had an off-campus job in addition to school, then there is less expectation that the student would have multiple opportunities for research, community service and leadershiop.

There you have a response from someone in admissions that knows.

I'm always glad to get the real word from LizzyM or REL. Thanks!

 

[baylormed]

Question, why does the job have to be off-campus?? I have an on-campus job but unlike the term work-study implies, I am not allowed to study in my job (it's not even possible when you're serving customers). I still have to be there on time and when expected....

 

[baylormed]

Question, why does the job have to be off-campus?? I have an on-campus job but unlike the term work-study implies, I am not allowed to study in my job (it's not even possible when you're serving customers). I still have to be there on time and when expected....
Plus, I don't have a car so I can't easily find a job elsewhere (how would I get there??)

 

[Apparition]

I expect more of an applicant who has had every advantage (parent(s) who are physicians or other professionals, excellent H.S., etc) compared with someone who came from a working class family in a rural town or inner city. That is to say, I expect that the student whose parents are both docs to have been able to easily find a research or medically related volunteer position than the applicant whose parents run a take-out food business. If the ECs are light and the applicant comes from a high socio-economic class, there is a thought that the applicant didn't do as much as might have been possible. If the applicant is first in the family to go to college, particularly if the applicant had an off-campus job in addition to school, then there is less expectation that the student would have multiple opportunities for research, community service and leadershiop.

Thanks for this post. I always wondered whether expectations, particularly of ECs, vary according to the applicant's situation.

 

[LizzyM]

Question, why does the job have to be off-campus?? I have an on-campus job but unlike the term work-study implies, I am not allowed to study in my job (it's not even possible when you're serving customers). I still have to be there on time and when expected....
Plus, I don't have a car so I can't easily find a job elsewhere (how would I get there??)

Not that an "on-campus" job is less desirable but I was thinking that sometimes there is a limit on the hours one can work per week at campus jobs. If someone is working to pay the bills and going to school, there is the understanding that there isn't much time for anything else. Nevertheless, there should be some evidence that there has been some effort expended on research or community service or leadership of an organization.

BTW, I always thought that work-study was working for a period of weeks at a job in the industry related to your major (e.g. working in a pharmaceutical firm if one is a chemistry major) although sometimes it means working at some menial task on campus such as the library circulation desk or food service.

 

[doublepeak]

BTW, I always thought that work-study was working for a period of weeks at a job in the industry related to your major (e.g. working in a pharmaceutical firm if one is a chemistry major) although sometimes it means working at some menial task on campus such as the library circulation desk or food service.

That isn't how work study works at my school (I wish though!). Most of the jobs are secretarial or menial with a few exceptions and they sign you up for the whole year (non-binding). The long-standing jobs are those like the library jobs because they require little training since there is a large influx/outflux of workers. I'd estimate that 95% of the listed jobs (I remember scouring through the listings) are that. Not saying that the jobs are bad - I assisted the administrators of the pediatric residency training program and got to always interact with the residents, so even though I was doing secretarial work I learned a lot (I know ERAS and resident life). I think a lot of the better jobs people get were never listed. I think most departments can hire work study students, as after I had a research fellowship at a medical campus lab, they wanted me to stay on for the school year so I used work study and then they only had to pay 40% (or was it 60%) while the federal program payed the rest.

 

[LizzyM]

My friend is a medical student at a large state school. The other day he was telling me that he interviewed an applicant and was really impressed by his qualifications. I then asked, "such as"?

My friend then immediately responded, "well, his dad is MD, his mom is a PhD in physiology...."

WTF?

How do his parent's credentials make this guy any more qualified than anyone else?

This thread has gone off topic a bit but getting back to the OP. I wonder, in defense of your friend, if he was just getting warmed up in telling you a story about what this applicant had done that was impressive and somehow his parents' jobs made it possible for him to make a networking connection of some kind.

 

[C.P. Jones]

Not that an "on-campus" job is less desirable but I was thinking that sometimes there is a limit on the hours one can work per week at campus jobs. If someone is working to pay the bills and going to school, there is the understanding that there isn't much time for anything else. Nevertheless, there should be some evidence that there has been some effort expended on research or community service or leadership of an organization.

BTW, I always thought that work-study was working for a period of weeks at a job in the industry related to your major (e.g. working in a pharmaceutical firm if one is a chemistry major) although sometimes it means working at some menial task on campus such as the library circulation desk or food service.

at UConn work-study was just any job on campus that the school pays you instead of the employer; therefore, that's why it is easier for students w/ work-study in their financial aid packages to get on-campus jobs, and nearly impossible for students w/o it. the catch is that it is put in your fin aid package in place of a loan, so you are expected to work to make up that money and not have an extra loan.

however, this does make it much much easier to get an on campus research job since it is very easy to go up to a prof and say you are looking for a research job AND you have work-study....then there is really no reason for the prof to not give you a chance since it is not his/her money

i think of it as a way the school reserves on campus jobs for those who need financial aid

 

[45408]

It really doesn't matter and if it does, you can't change it anyway.

Exactly. My dad runs a landscape business and my mom stays at home with my sisters (but she was a nurse for a while). So much for academic connections! I have met a few doctors by way of mowing their lawns 😛

 

[REL]

I expect more of an applicant who has had every advantage (parent(s) who are physicians or other professionals, excellent H.S., etc) compared with someone who came from a working class family in a rural town or inner city. That is to say, I expect that the student whose parents are both docs to have been able to easily find a research or medically related volunteer position than the applicant whose parents run a take-out food business. If the ECs are light and the applicant comes from a high socio-economic class, there is a thought that the applicant didn't do as much as might have been possible. If the applicant is first in the family to go to college, particularly if the applicant had an off-campus job in addition to school, then there is less expectation that the student would have multiple opportunities for research, community service and leadershiop.

Absolutely agree. There are many who are "privileged" to have well educated and well placed parents, but it comes down to what the applicant has done with their situation. Sadly, many with the silver spoon dont work to their full potential and end up costing themselves a year or two in the application process.

 

[RxnMan]

Thanks for this post. I always wondered whether expectations, particularly of ECs, vary according to the applicant's situation.

Not always true. It has been my experience that many ADCOMs want to know what "box" to fit you in. Are you upper-middle-class, have a degree in biology, with 3.5+ GPA and 30 MCAT? If not, then you have to fight an uphill battle. It's not that the ADCOMS think you haven't overcome trials in your life, it's just that, due to the way the applications are filtered in AMCAS, schools will only see GPA, MCAT, maybe degree and major, and a few other features (which fit their school's particular mission, or "box"). They have enough applications that they'll find someone just as underprivileged as you, but somehow got the EC's (and everything else) that match to their ideal candidate.

I say this because, while I'm not economically disadvantaged, I don't fit into the standard "pre-med" box either (check my profile). Only 3% of the schools I've applied to have looked further than the above features to see that I have done well despite the obstacles life has thrown in my way.

 

[bubbleyum]

just so you all can be aware, but not all doctor's children have a lot of money and privileges growing up that would easily slide them into med school.

my father has been working as a doctor for the past 35 years or so and had never made any money. he works overseas(not in the us), in a christian hospital and taught med school for 30 years. of course we never starved or anything like that, but we didn't have any more money than the average kid of a government worker. it was a big deal for them to send me to school overseas, and i went to one of the cheapest state schools in the country, had no car, worked as a waitress, and got student loans that i am still paying off now. i think this could be a similar case for maybe some other doctor's children here in the us who may have devoted their life to missions or academia.

(in terms of other "privileges" and research opportunities, maybe he would have been able to introduce me to some if he actually practiced here, but that is not the case. i have had to apply through the volunteer services offices at the community hospitals just like everybody else, and have still yet to find a doctor to shadow!)

 

[jason3278]

This thread has gone off topic a bit but getting back to the OP. I wonder, in defense of your friend, if he was just getting warmed up in telling you a story about what this applicant had done that was impressive and somehow his parents' jobs made it possible for him to make a networking connection of some kind.

Thinking back on the conversation, I think this was probably the case. It would have sounded much different if the guy was able to do all the ECs he did without the connections he had.

Still....people with connections annoy me, as I don't have any. I'd have an easier time asking a doctor if I could sleep with his daughter than I've had asking them if I can shadow them and observe procedures.

 

[RxnMan]

I'd have an easier time asking a doctor if I could sleep with his daughter than I've had asking them if I can shadow them and observe procedures.

Find a local teaching hospital and go to your department office of choice. Start asking anyone in the office about docs who allow students to shadow them. If nobody's interested, go to another department/teaching hospital.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

That's how I set up a shadowing program for my school's premed group. Docs who work in teaching hospitals generally have med students, residents, and fellows following them, so it's usually no problem to have a pre-med kid tag along.

You can also try going through the hospital's volunteer office, but that can have mixed results depending on the hospital's rules for volunteers, because they may not allow you anywhere near patients.