In desperate need of advice as to how to go about my life and endeavors as someone interested in medicine.

[量子力学]

Hi guys,

I hope everyone and his/her loved ones are doing quite well during this New Year.

I just wanted to seek some genuine advice as to how to move forward in the situation I am in. I will try to be succinct as possible. I started my college career at a state flagship pretty well with a 4.0 GPA. After sophomore year, I started tanking in academic performance due to a host of reasons such as clinical depression and BDD (Body Dysmorphia Disorder). The worst was yet to come. In the spring COVID online 2020, which was my last semester, I was prosecuted for engaging in academic misconduct during an online exam. I was then suspended subsequently suspended for the 2020-2021 academic school year for the misconduct. This was obviously a huge setback, mainly attributed to the fact that I was planning to commence my DIY post bac starting august 2020 at the exact same school. Having said that, I have tried to use this time in an effective manner to really engage in self-introspection and to figure out what I want to do with my life. Moreover, I have been allocating a lot of time towards the MCAT and am confident i can score above a 516 if my FL scores hold true. Obviously, I know I have a mountain to climb regardless but I am willing to fight this battle. The only aspect I am worried about is when to take my MCAT and, in a more broad sense, if undergoing reinvention to fix my academic career is ultimately a futile prospect due to my black mark of academic misconduct. MCATs have expirations date of two years, contingent on the school. And the most ideal scenario is that I reinvent myself these next two years in order to gain a seat in a medical school in 2023. If this cannot come to fruition, I see the most pragmatic option to try and shoot for 2024. I fear giving every fibre of my being to reinvent myself and do 80 credits of post bac work only to realize it was all for nothing, because of the apparent nail in the coffin that is the IA.

Sorry for my paranoia. I am 21 years old and I really want to make something of my life, and I am extremely regretful for the mistakes I have made in my academic path thus far. I feel that the best course of action to allay my regrets is to completely rectify myself in an academic and ethical sense. My family who is full of physicians have pretty much given up hope on me, but I still hold resilient my aspirations for myself.

Thanks for reading

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[Rapsidy]

What was the misconduct? It sounds pretty bad cause usually if it’s something like cheating on an exam I’ve seen a lot of people post that they get F’s for the course and the IA, but not suspended entirely for the year.

 

[量子力学]

What was the misconduct? It sounds pretty bad cause usually if it’s something like cheating on an exam I’ve seen a lot of people post that they get F’s for the course and the IA, but not suspended entirely for the year.

Cheating in an online exam was the IA

 

[readmypostsMD]

How did you manage to get caught cheating on an online exam?

 

[Goro]

I just wanted to seek some genuine advice as to how to move forward in the situation I am in. I will try to be succinct as possible. I started my college career at a state flagship pretty well with a 4.0 GPA. After sophomore year, I started tanking in academic performance due to a host of reasons such as clinical depression and BDD (Body Dysmorphia Disorder). The worst was yet to come. In the spring COVID online 2020, which was my last semester, I was prosecuted for engaging in academic misconduct during an online exam. I was then suspended subsequently suspended for the 2020-2021 academic school year for the misconduct. This was obviously a huge setback, mainly attributed to the fact that I was planning to commence my DIY post bac starting august 2020 at the exact same school. Having said that, I have tried to use this time in an effective manner to really engage in self-introspection and to figure out what I want to do with my life. Moreover, I have been allocating a lot of time towards the MCAT and am confident i can score above a 516 if my FL scores hold true. Obviously, I know I have a mountain to climb regardless but I am willing to fight this battle. The only aspect I am worried about is when to take my MCAT and, in a more broad sense, if undergoing reinvention to fix my academic career is ultimately a futile prospect due to my black mark of academic misconduct. MCATs have expirations date of two years, contingent on the school. I see the most pragmatic option to try and shoot for 2024. I fear giving every fibre of my being to reinvent myself and do 80 credits of post bac work only to realize it was all for nothing, because of the apparent nail in the coffin that is the IA.

Sorry for my paranoia. I am 21 years old and I really want to make something of my life, and I am extremely regretful for the mistakes I have made in my academic path thus far. I feel that the best course of action to allay my regrets is to completely rectify myself in an academic and ethical sense. My family who is full of physicians have pretty much given up hope on me, but I still hold resilient my aspirations for myself.

Thanks for reading

I can't sugar coat this, if your medical career isn't over, it's in a state of deep stasis. As a senior, you're not going to get cut any slack for cheating, compared to someone young and stupid like a freshman.

I don't know if you'll get cut any slack for having mental health issues as the cause of your cheating. You obviously knew what you were doing, you just didn't care.

1) You need to get your mental health issues under control before anything else Tight control. I never heard of Body Dysmorphia Disorder, so looked it up. To this layman, it seems to be a kind of OCD. Not good. My big worry is that the pressure of medical school will cause you to relapse. Medical school is a furnace, after all, and I've seen it break even healthy students.

2) To that end, a long stretch of academic excellence will allay Adcom's fears.

3) The IA is concerning to me because yours is the first report of online exam cheating that has led to a suspension. Other SDNers reporting the same IA have received the IA and an F for the course. Maybe your school is just stricter than others?

4) Read this on GPA repair Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

5) The more time you put between the IA and your application, the better. Work for few years, engage in many acts of service to others less fortunate than yourself, and especially try to have positions of responsibility.

6) While getting good MCAT practice scores is itself a good sign, keep in mind that it's also like batting practice, and even I, in my 60s, can hit a 75 MPH fastball.

7) While your cheating doesn't define you as a human being, you are facing two mindsets that Adcoms have about cheating:
a) Do we want this person in our Class
b) With all the applicants we have that didn't cheat, why take a chance on this one

My clinician colleagues especially take professionalism seriously, as they know that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students (there's published data on this).

8) Always have a Plan B

9) Don't screw up again.


We'll need to call in the Big Guns for more opinions... @Med Ed @LizzyM @Moko @LunaOri @wysdoc @lord999 @Mr.Smile12 @Maimonides1 @Catalystik @Angus Avagadro @gyngyn

How did you manage to get caught cheating on an online exam?

The are programs that run along with the exams that can tell if you're listening to outside sources or are looking away at a different screen.

 

[readmypostsMD]

I can't sugar coat this, if your medical career isn't over, it's in a state of deep stasis. As a senior, you're not going to get cut any slack for cheating, compared to someone young and stupid like a freshman.

I don't know if you'll get cut any slack for having mental health issues as the cause of your cheating. You obviously knew what you were doing, you just didn't care.

1) You need to get your mental health issues under control before anything else Tight control. I never heard of Body Dysmorphia Disorder, so looked it up. To this layman, it seems to be a kind of OCD. Not good. My big worry is that the pressure of medical school will cause you to relapse. Medical school is a furnace, after all, and I've seen it break even healthy students.

2) To that end, a long stretch of academic excellence will allay Adcom's fears.

3) The IA is concerning to me because yours is the first report of online exam cheating that has led to a suspension. Other SDNers reporting the same IA have received the IA and an F for the course. Maybe your school is just stricter than others?

4) Read this on GPA repair Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

5) The more time you put between the IA and your application, the better. Work for few years, engage in many acts of service to others less fortunate than yourself, and especially try to have positions of responsibility.

6) While getting good MCAT practice scores is itself a good sign, keep in mind that it's also like batting practice, and even I, in my 60s, can hit a 75 MPH fastball.

7) While your cheating doesn't define you as a human being, you are facing two mindsets that Adcoms have about cheating:
a) Do we want this person in our Class
b) With all the applicants we have that didn't cheat, why take a chance on this one

My clinician colleagues especially take professionalism seriously, as they know that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students (there's published data on this).

8) Always have a Plan B

9) Don't screw up again.


We'll need to call in the Big Guns for more opinions... @Med Ed @LizzyM @Moko @LunaOri @wysdoc @lord999 @Mr.Smile12 @Maimonides1 @Catalystik @Angus Avagadro @gyngyn


The are programs that run along with the exams that can tell if you're listening to outside sources or are looking away at a different screen.

I’ve heard of those, but Im pretty sure those programs need your permission to access your camera and mic, so OP must have allowed access on his computer, like through the settings menu

did you do all that and still cheat??

 

[LunaOri]

There is no way that you are going to medical school in 2023 after being suspended from school for a year. This isn’t something that can be fixed with a post-bacc. Plan on a different career, or spend several years working to build a reputation. You would need to demonstrate that you have good character, and that this cheating was a one-time bad decision (was it?)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You're 21. You make mistakes. But you can't escape this one. If you want to go into health care, work in a different capacity before you try again.

 

[Rapsidy]

Agree with others. If you want to pursue this route you have to put years between this incident, this wasn’t something that happened as a Freshman and you were caught doing something stupid. It’s going to make many schools think you’ve been cheating for a while and only got caught near the end of your academic career.

In the meantime you’ll have to prove with actions not just words that this person isn’t you, which means a ton of service towards those in need and a model citizen between now and when you apply.

Also ask yourself how much you want this path. Are you willing to wait years before taking your shot, knowing that even then it’s going to be an uphill battle?

Also agree with others you have to get your mental health issues under control, it doesn’t matter how successful or high functioning you are I’ve seen many a people who started out with BDD with great careers admitted to our eating disorder programs. This is not medical advice, just a word of warning at how easily something like that can spiral out of control.

 

[LizzyM]

With cheating and a academic year suspension on your record, the 4.0 is suspect -- did you actually do well or have you been cheating for years without getting caught? That is the question adcoms might ask before tossing your application.

I can't sugar coat this.... Save yourself a ton of grief and find an alternative career. In all likelihood, you'll need to go into the job market and prove yourself as an effective and trustworthy employee before any graduate or professional program will take a chance on your application. Work for at least 2 years, do a masters, doctorate or professional degree, work 2 more years and if you are still feeling that only medicine would satisfy your desire for a satisfying career, take a chance at applying to medical school. At that point, you'll have work experience and a second degree to prove that you are healthy, productive, and honest.

Good luck!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I must agree with my learned colleagues. There are no worse offenses in academics than willful cheating resulting in suspension. It's the academic equivalent of sleeping with your sister/brother. The only way to overcome this transgression is to put time between when it happened and your med school app. During this time, you must demonstrate exemplary judgement and behavior. E.g., no DUI, domestic abuse, shoplifting, etc.. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation, but meaningful careers are possible, just not medicine right now. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[量子力学]

I must agree with my learned colleagues. There are no worse offenses in academics than willful cheating resulting in suspension. It's the academic equivalent of sleeping with your sister/brother. The only way to overcome this transgression is to put time between when it happened and your med school app. During this time, you must demonstrate exemplary judgement and behavior. E.g., no DUI, domestic abuse, shoplifting, etc.. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation, but meaningful careers are possible, just not medicine right now. Good luck and best wishes!

I respect your opinion, but I feel that rendering this as the academic equivalent of sleeping with your sibling is over the top and an insensitive, ungrounded claim. I fully take accountability for engaging in academic misconduct and am regretful. I can assure you that cheating especially during this online era is rampant even amongst pre-meds, and sleeping with siblings is something universally seen as extremely messed up and also very rare.

 

[量子力学]

Looks like waiting for Texas Fresh start could be an option

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Ok. Forget the hyperbole. Pay attention to only the line before I said that. " There are no worse offenses in academics than willful cheating resulting in expulsion." I am sorry you put yourself in the situation. It's not the end of the road, you are only 21, plenty of time to select an alternative career, somewhere in healthcare. Develop good skills, and apply in several years. You will only be in your later 20's. Plenty of non traditional students in their mid 30' in my school. It can be done, just will take time to turn things around.

 

[Maimonides1]

I can't sugar coat this, if your medical career isn't over, it's in a state of deep stasis. As a senior, you're not going to get cut any slack for cheating, compared to someone young and stupid like a freshman.

I don't know if you'll get cut any slack for having mental health issues as the cause of your cheating. You obviously knew what you were doing, you just didn't care.

1) You need to get your mental health issues under control before anything else Tight control. I never heard of Body Dysmorphia Disorder, so looked it up. To this layman, it seems to be a kind of OCD. Not good. My big worry is that the pressure of medical school will cause you to relapse. Medical school is a furnace, after all, and I've seen it break even healthy students.

2) To that end, a long stretch of academic excellence will allay Adcom's fears.

3) The IA is concerning to me because yours is the first report of online exam cheating that has led to a suspension. Other SDNers reporting the same IA have received the IA and an F for the course. Maybe your school is just stricter than others?

4) Read this on GPA repair Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

5) The more time you put between the IA and your application, the better. Work for few years, engage in many acts of service to others less fortunate than yourself, and especially try to have positions of responsibility.

6) While getting good MCAT practice scores is itself a good sign, keep in mind that it's also like batting practice, and even I, in my 60s, can hit a 75 MPH fastball.

7) While your cheating doesn't define you as a human being, you are facing two mindsets that Adcoms have about cheating:
a) Do we want this person in our Class
b) With all the applicants we have that didn't cheat, why take a chance on this one

My clinician colleagues especially take professionalism seriously, as they know that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students (there's published data on this).

8) Always have a Plan B

9) Don't screw up again.


We'll need to call in the Big Guns for more opinions... @Med Ed @LizzyM @Moko @LunaOri @wysdoc @lord999 @Mr.Smile12 @Maimonides1 @Catalystik @Angus Avagadro @gyngyn


The are programs that run along with the exams that can tell if you're listening to outside sources or are looking away at a different screen.

Wise @Goro advised you the best..
The door to medical school is closed now and could be for a long time to come..
OP, your road to Redemption is going to be painful and long..!
The process is atrocious for the healthiest and most capable students.., no one will be willing to take the risk now on candidate who is struggling with mental disorder on top of academic dishonesty IA..!!

 

[量子力学]

thanks @Goro

In that case, would beginning my post bac-endeavor for ameliorating my academic mishaps in May 2021 be of limited utility since my medical career aspirations wont come to fruition for a while? i was thinking of doing texas fresh start but am not quite familiar with the details

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Yes it would be futile. I have seen many committees reject strong apps by reinventors because the IA window was still too soon.

 

[Med Ed]

In that case, would beginning my post bac-endeavor for ameliorating my academic mishaps in May 2021 be of limited utility since my medical career aspirations wont come to fruition for a while? i was thinking of doing texas fresh start but am not quite familiar with the details

The mistake you are making is trying to barrel forward into the next thing that you percieive may help leverage you into medical school. I'm not going to pass judgment on your situation, but the plain fact is that you were suspended from undergrad for a year because of academic misconduct. From an admissions standpoint you are radioactive. There is no point in taking the MCAT, all that will do is give you a score you can't ever use.

If you ever what a shot at an American school then you need to set aside being a premed and go do something else for about 5 years. Work, Peace Corp, grad school, whatever. The 20's are a decade when people mature and change rapidly. By the time you are 26-ish you will probably not recognize your current self. If, at that point, you wish to aim for medical school, you would make a plausible case that you are no longer the person who cheated on the online exam in undergrad. You will never have above average odds of acceptance, but at least you will have a shot.

The other option is to try one of the big 4 Caribbean schools, who may not care so much about IAs. In fact, may be just the sort of person they are looking for.

 

[Goro]

thanks @Goro

In that case, would beginning my post bac-endeavor for ameliorating my academic mishaps in May 2021 be of limited utility since my medical career aspirations wont come to fruition for a while? i was thinking of doing texas fresh start but am not quite familiar with the details

I respect your opinion, but I feel that rendering this as the academic equivalent of sleeping with your sibling is over the top and an insensitive, ungrounded claim. I fully take accountability for engaging in academic misconduct and am regretful. I can assure you that cheating especially during this online era is rampant even amongst pre-meds, and sleeping with siblings is something universally seen as extremely messed up and also very rare.

Whataboutisms are not a defense of your actions.

I have to repeat my comment: if your medical career isn't over, it's in a state of deep stasis.

If I saw your application on my computer anywhere in the near future, I'd reject you out of hand and just ask you some softball questions in the interview.

Your task over the next half-decade is not merely to reinvent your GPA, but to reinvent you as a person. I want to see an application that shouts "This is not the person from 2020." And you do this by deeds, not stats.

And my learned colleague was making an analogy. I understand and sympathize that you're in a sensitive place right now, but it's import to comprehend what people are saying to you, rather than immediately getting offended.

 

[deleted1065262]

Ok. Forget the hyperbole. Pay attention to only the line before I said that. " There are no worse offenses in academics than willful cheating resulting in expulsion." I am sorry you put yourself in the situation. It's not the end of the road, you are only 21, plenty of time to select an alternative career, somewhere in healthcare. Develop good skills, and apply in several years. You will only be in your later 20's. Plenty of non traditional students in their mid 30' in my school. It can be done, just will take time to turn things around.

My opinion isn't worth anything but I have heard of people who have gone to medical school in their 40s. This is going to take time for OP to turn around. And they need to have some backup plan. That's what I think.

And see, this is why I don't cheat. It never pays off from what I have read and heard.

Also, OP you gotta get help for your issues. I have MH issues too and I know what it's like. But if you don't get help you will not likely succeed. I only say likely bc anything is possible...but it's a very very small percentage of people.

Try to not panic or anything or become extremely emotional. Not easy, I know. I also know you might not want to hear this. But panicking or any of that will not help you.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

My opinion isn't work anything but I have heard of people who have gone to medical school in their 40s. This is going to take time for OP to turn around. And they need to have some backup plan. That's what I think.

And see, this is why I don't cheat. It never pays off from what I have read and heard.

Our class president was in his 40's when he started and one of my intern classmates was in his 40's. It can be done .

 

[deleted1065262]

Our class president was in his 40's when he started and one of my intern classmates was in his 40's. It can be done .

Yes.

I hope OP is able to achieve their dreams. I think with the cheating it will take years.

I also edited my post to include advice about getting some kind of help. If they don't their chances are very low IMO.

 

[Goro]

Our class president was in his 40's when he started and one of my intern classmates was in his 40's. It can be done .

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s.

 

[startoverat40]

My opinion isn't worth anything but I have heard of people who have gone to medical school in their 40s. This is going to take time for OP to turn around. And they need to have some backup plan. That's what I think.

And see, this is why I don't cheat. It never pays off from what I have read and heard.

Also, OP you gotta get help for your issues. I have MH issues too and I know what it's like. But if you don't get help you will not likely succeed. I only say likely bc anything is possible...but it's a very very small percentage of people.

Try to not panic or anything or become extremely emotional. Not easy, I know. I also know you might not want to hear this. But panicking or any of that will not help you.

I've heard of them too

 

[deleted1065262]

I've heard of them too

Idk if I trust you but ok. (jk)

 

[量子力学]

Yes.

I hope OP is able to achieve their dreams. I think with the cheating it will take years.

I also edited my post to include advice about getting some kind of help. If they don't their chances are very low IMO.

Thanks my comrade.

I am very interested in chemistry and was thinking of doing the post bac/finishing the last class I need to graduate starting in may 2021. then basically reinventing myself to try and get into a grad program for chemistry in 2023

 

[GreenDuck12]

Think less grad program and more prolonged service to those less fortunate than yourself.

 

[deleted1065262]

Thanks my comrade.

I am very interested in chemistry and was thinking of doing the post bac/finishing the last class I need to graduate starting in may 2021. then basically reinventing myself to try and get into a grad program for chemistry in 2023

I like chemistry too!!