In great dilemma: Chances & PS q with regards to GRE explanation

[lilshortguh618]

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Hello,

Thank you for stopping in. I am in a great dilemma and I want to seek your advices on what I should do. First, it's been a journey for me to get to where I am today. When I first started college, I went off the wrong path and made poor choices which my grades suffered greatly. At that time, I was more worried about working to provide care for my daughter instead of school. I put school on the backburner for awhile, but then decided to go back with a determination for a better profession. I took a course in Intro to Clinical Psych and absolutely fell in love with the field and especially, the research aspect of it. I pulled my GPA from below a 2.0 to a 3.22, last two years GPA was 3.59. It took me 6 years total to complete my undergraduate. I knew ahead of time that my GPA will be a major flaw in my application; therefore, I sought out as many research experiences as possible to hopefully make-up for it. To date, I have 3 years of research experience and had worked in 4 different lab, all related to my grad school interest. I currently hold a FT salary-based research assistant position at the VA. I presented posters at 3 regional conferences, gave one oral presenation, and is currently in the process of completing a manuscript to submit for publication (first-authored). I applied for 3 national fellowships this year with the hope to be awarded for next Fall. However, the confidence I had is now all gone b/c of my GRE scores.

I took the GRE for the first time a couple days ago and it was horrible! I am 29 wks pregnant and sitting through a 4 hr exam w/o a restroom break is not an ideal situation. Before I took the test, I informed the proctor with a request for a restroom break between each sessions b/c I know that I need to go every 30 mins. H/e, she said that I am only allowed one 10 min break half-way thru the test (which is in 2 hrs). Needless to say, I tried my best on the test, but surely, my scores were Verbal: 148; Q: 142 at the end. I am so disappointed in myself b/c I had scored much higher on the practice tests. I believe if I were under a different circumstance, i would have done much better. Several months of test prepration had all went down the drain.

I am applying to 3 PhD programs: U of Iowa (to work with my mentor (she's actually writing me a letter on my behalf)), U of Nebraska-Lincoln, and U of Nevada-Reno. I have personally contacted the faculty via email with regards to if they are accepting students and gave them a gist about myself (research interest, experiences, and goals). All of them said that I sound like a good fit for their program and had encouraged me to apply. Could that be a good sign?

My applications are due Dec 15th, and I do not have any other ways except to submit these horrible scores. I cannot retake the test since ETS has the 60 days policy for re-take. My questions for you are the following:

1) What are your opinions on the chance of getting accepted this Fall?
2) I know I can put a note in my PS to explain how the GRE scores do not reflect my skills, but I am ALREADY putting a statement in there to explain why my GPA is so low. I don't really think it's a good idea to point out 2 major flaws in my application. Which one is more important to include?

I know this post is getting bit lengthy and I truly appreciate your time in reading. I hope to hear back from you!

 

[LHDMMD]

This might need to be moved to WAMC thread, but I'll go ahead and respond here.

You raised your GPA significantly. That looks good. Lots of people start out horribly in school and overcome obstacles to succeed. I'm not sure about your GRE score. I don't know what that would compare to on the old test. If you scored below 1100, I would say you don't have shot. Most schools want at least 1200 and close to 1300 is the norm. You have good experiences and awesome LORs. It's too late to do anything about it now unless you decide to not apply at all which I don't think anyone would blame you. Take the test again under better circumstances. I would also add that you can get up and go to the bathroom any point you want, but the test timer does not stop.
Personally, I could not imagine trying to get a Ph.D. being pregnant. More power to you. Good luck!

Edit: I just looked up your scores. V 148=420 Q 142=460 or 470. So you got an 890 at best. You wouldn't get into a Master's program with that score.

 

[lilshortguh618]

@LHDMMD: Thanks for looking up the scores for me and for your honesty. I guess I will re-take the test after I give birth and reapply next year then.

 

[KillerDiller]

Do any of your schools have policies about hard and fast cut-off scores? There isn't really any harm in applying this year, except the possible loss of the application fees. Many programs give you room to explain weak parts of your application. If they don't have a special spot for this, try explaining it in your personal statement. All kinds of things happen when taking the GRE--people have panic attacks or become ill. It's understandable. Your research experience sounds great, and I'd say it's worth a shot to see if your lower numbers could be overlooked in favor of a good research match.

Worse case scenario is you don't get in and apply again next year with demonstrably better numbers.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Do any of your schools have policies about hard and fast cut-off scores? There isn't really any harm in applying this year, except the possible loss of the application fees. Many programs give you room to explain weak parts of your application. If they don't have a special spot for this, try explaining it in your personal statement. All kinds of things happen when taking the GRE--people have panic attacks or become ill. It's understandable. Your research experience sounds great, and I'd say it's worth a shot to see if your lower numbers could be overlooked in favor of a good research match.

Worse case scenario is you don't get in and apply again next year with demonstrably better numbers.

I agree--the worst that can happen is you don't get in. I also agree that re-taking the GRE is likely going to be your best bet. Based on the score conversions above, odds are your application may not even reach the admissions committee; I'd hazard a guess that most programs have some type of cut-off score, whether or not it's advertised (my programs requires a minimum of 1000 on the older version, for example).

I also second the point that attending grad school while raising a young child will be tough. It's not at all impossible, but you definitely should realize that you'll be making sacrifices, such as potentially missing milestones, and at the very least having to spend less time with your children than I'm sure would be desirable (as is the case with any working parent, unfortunately).

Everything else about your applications sounds great, though. Solid research experience, strong LoRs, and presentations/publications to boot. The GPA is on the low side, but the other areas should more than make up for it, assuming none of the programs to which you're applying have something like a 3.5 minimum requirement.

 

[LHDMMD]

I think it's also worth noting that if the OP is trying to explain the low GRE score she's going to have to mention she's pregnant. And although it probably shouldn't, it might negatively effect her application. "She couldn't get through a few hours of test how is she going to get through a Ph.D. program with a new born?" They might think that. Also, the OP also said she has a low GPA because she wanted to focus on raising her other child. So now the admission committee knows she has 2 kids and that they effect her performance on tests and school.

I kind of agree with KillerDiller. You already got your application together and letters written, you can try to apply, but depending on the process, your application may automatically be thrown out due to the score (all you'll lose is your money). If you get in, wonderful. If not, try again next year.

 

[lilshortguh618]

Thank you for the insightful responses. It IS tough raising 2 kids and with an additional newborn, it will be tough. H/e, it is worth it because I had been planning this stage for the past four years. I do not think I'll be missing any milestones with my children since I'd been a working mother for the past two years, a student, AND was still able to tuck them into bed at night.

I do agree that I would probably NOT make it through the first cut, but I am just going to submit the applications anyway to see how far I get. If I actually make it to the interview, THEN I will believe in miracles. :-D

 

[hunter123]

I would recommend that you apply to the programs because you already have everything together. Also, it might not always be a great idea to draw attention to flaws in your application, I don't know if I would mention both a low GPA and GRE score in a personal statement. But if you do get an interview, have answers prepared to explain your scores. You should also call the school and see if there is a minimum GRE score. As others have stated, some programs will not even consider you if your score doesn't hit a certain cut-off-at that point, it is a waste of money to apply. If you can't find it on the programs' websites, call the secretary and ask.

As a mother of two young children and a 4th year student in a phd program, I would highly recommend that you not disclose that you have children in your application or interview, or use it as a reason why you did not perform well (even if it is true)! I already had one child when I applied, and my second during my first year of grad school. It has not held me back AT ALL, rather, it has motivated me to finish my degree, and I am the only member of my cohort currently applying for internship (none of them have children). I have not missed any milestones, essentially, it is possible to treat graduate school like a full-time job, just be willing to do a lot of work from home (I work every night from home). However, I am pretty sure that if I had disclosed that I had a child upon interview, I would not have gotten into my program. Prior to interviews, I was told by several faculty members not to disclose...and I have also seen women take off their wedding rings for interviews. Grad programs want students who will not be distracted, and often there is a lot of uneasiness surrounding the ability to focus on being a productive graduate student and parent at the same time. Also, if you don't get in to the programs the first time, and re-take the GRE and apply again, they might remember your situation, and it could potentially work against you.

I commend you for following through on your goals, and if you have any questions, please PM me.

 

[cara susanna]

You'd think they'd want grad students to be married since it would take away from "dating" distractions. Maybe that's just how I see it.

As for the OP, isn't it true that often times it's the professor's individual decision? If she's applying to work with her mentor, I'd think she has a good chance despite a bad GRE and not-so-great GPA.

 

[lilshortguh618]

I need an opinion on this: Below is an excerpt about explaining my GRE scores. I tried to briefly explain it and used examples to back up my argument. What do you think?

"Although my diverse training experiences leave me well-situated to conduct important work in the field of clinical psychology, my low GRE scores are a flaw in my application. I took the test while in the third trimester of pregnancy and was denied breaks between sessions. The resulting physical discomfort diminished my ability to concentrate. My scores do not reflect my abilities, and are much lower than my practice tests would have predicted. I am intellectually competent for graduate studies. For example, I raised my GPA from below a 2.0 to a 3.2 within a couple semesters, resulting in a last two years GPA of 3.6. I am also preparing a first-authored manuscript to submit for publication."

 

[KillerDiller]

I need an opinion on this: Below is an excerpt about explaining my GRE scores. I tried to briefly explain it and used examples to back up my argument. What do you think?

"Although my diverse training experiences leave me well-situated to conduct important work in the field of clinical psychology, my low GRE scores are a flaw in my application. I took the test while in the third trimester of pregnancy and was denied breaks between sessions. The resulting physical discomfort diminished my ability to concentrate. My scores do not reflect my abilities, and are much lower than my practice tests would have predicted. I am intellectually competent for graduate studies. For example, I raised my GPA from below a 2.0 to a 3.2 within a couple semesters, resulting in a last two years GPA of 3.6. I am also preparing a first-authored manuscript to submit for publication."

I think this is a good paragraph and walks the line well by explaining the numbers, but not dwelling on them. As others have said, there is some risk to disclosing family status. Will you be pregnant during the interviews, though? If so, then there is no harm in disclosing it now versus later. If not, then I guess it's more or less a crap shoot. I'd like to think that if I was a POI, I would look much more favorably on a mother with a solid explanation for low scores, than I would on an applicant with unexplained low scores. However, I know that's not going to be true across the board. Best of luck .

 

[phillips101]

I need an opinion on this: Below is an excerpt about explaining my GRE scores. I tried to briefly explain it and used examples to back up my argument. What do you think?

"Although my diverse training experiences leave me well-situated to conduct important work in the field of clinical psychology, my low GRE scores are a flaw in my application. I took the test while in the third trimester of pregnancy and was denied breaks between sessions. The resulting physical discomfort diminished my ability to concentrate. My scores do not reflect my abilities, and are much lower than my practice tests would have predicted. I am intellectually competent for graduate studies. For example, I raised my GPA from below a 2.0 to a 3.2 within a couple semesters, resulting in a last two years GPA of 3.6. I am also preparing a first-authored manuscript to submit for publication."

Maybe you are already aware of this now, but there is a specific procedure you had to go through in order to get those bathroom breaks. A colleague of mine also took the GRE pregnant, and she said that they require a doctor's note in order to be granted special permission to have more bathroom breaks under their "disability" policy. Although she was allowed the chance to use the bathroom every half hour (or 15 minutes, I forgot), she ended up not using any because of how absorbed she was in the test. I apologize if I'm wrong, but from your post, it sounds almost as if you walked into the test room on test day asking for extra breaks without following the appropriate paperworks first. The reason why I'm point this out is because your paragraph clearly sounds like you attribute your GRE score to ETS denying your bathroom breaks, which, in my opinion, is not entirely true since you can't just walk into the test room expect them to give you special permission if you don't have the required documents. So yes, it's good to have a specific reason why you didn't do so great on the GRE, but it's not so great when it sounds like you're just shifting responsibilities and playing the blame game when you could've entirely avoided this whole situation if you had done your homework first.

 

[Quynh2007]

I need an opinion on this: Below is an excerpt about explaining my GRE scores. I tried to briefly explain it and used examples to back up my argument. What do you think?

"Although my diverse training experiences leave me well-situated to conduct important work in the field of clinical psychology, my low GRE scores are a flaw in my application. I took the test while in the third trimester of pregnancy and was denied breaks between sessions. The resulting physical discomfort diminished my ability to concentrate. My scores do not reflect my abilities, and are much lower than my practice tests would have predicted. I am intellectually competent for graduate studies. For example, I raised my GPA from below a 2.0 to a 3.2 within a couple semesters, resulting in a last two years GPA of 3.6. I am also preparing a first-authored manuscript to submit for publication."

I wouldn't use the word flaw. Weakness is better. I would make the second sentence something like this. "Taking the GRE required 4 hours of testing. At the time of the testing, I was in my last trimester of pregnancy and required special accommodation, mainly frequent bathroom breaks. Due to testing procedures, I was unable to gain a sufficient amount of breaks, and the resulting physical...."

I would take out the next sentence "my scores" and just say I believe that my grades the past two years are a much better reflection of my current academic achievement and standing.

 

[lilshortguh618]

@PHILLIPS101: I agree with you. I did not know beforehand that I would need a doctor's note for special accommodation, which is my fault for not thoroughly researching options in advance.

@QUYNH2007: Thank you for suggestions!