I was tired of seeing arguments over and over and just wanted to get the real deal and genuine answers from the real pharmacists and students, so I asked them myself within a thread another user here mentioned to go visit. In that thread, I promised to update you guys on the responses I get from the pharmacists and pharmacy students over at the pharmacy forum. In that thread, that impatietstudent user told us to go visit the pharmacy forum to see how bad the market was and yet there were people in his thread arguing and denying his claims. Well... I stepped up and instead of taking advice from all pre-pharm, pre-do, pre-whatever...I went straight to the actual guys in the field in the Pharmacy Forum and asked myself. I received quite a few responses from several people and even a few private messages all giving similar advice. This thread is for anyone like me, who really wants answers. Not trying to discourage or take anyone's dreams away. Well...here we go.
This was my original plea for advice and insight to the guys over at the real pharm forum.
"I saw this thread because of an user from the prepharm forum warning others about the job market. I noticed that there are some serious deniers out there who think he is trying to discourage them some way. I'm asking you guys, in all honesty please...is the job market really that bad? And why are there so many people on the prepharm sub forum who don't seem to believe it?" -Me
These are the various responses I have received from them.
1)."They are in denial. If they want to work in a small town or rural area, they are golden. If they want to work in a major city, it will be a difficult, uphill battle. This is just a fact." -WVUPharm2007 (verified and working pharmacist)
2)."On a more philosophical level it could be because the grass is always greener on the other side, or because compared to the general population pharmacy is still a good field, or possibly it is cognitive dissonance (my new favorite explanation for most lines of illogical thinking). I don't think the job market is *that* bad. But it certainly isn't the golden days anymore, that is for sure. You might have to movie for a job or you might have to overtrain for one. It sucks, but it is what it is."- owlegrad (SND STAFF member/admin/pharmacist)
3). "It's risk tolerance, and it's all relative. I'll explain.
In 2005, a degree got you a job no matter how terrible you were. By the time you graduate in ~2021, we'll have been 16 years removed from these days. That's the equivalent of telling one of our older members to compare the job market (in general, not pharmacy) in 2000 vs. 1984. It's not fair to compare, so there's some aspect of that going on because 2005 is fairly recent for me personally (as I'm > 30 years old).
On the flip side, the current reality is that to have a better than average shot at getting a decent job, you need two discrete events to occur. Event A = admission to pharmacy school, event B = matching for a residency or event C = obtaining employment early & doing well enough to jump off of that.
If you only achieve A, you're in for a lot of trouble. The problem is, you can't even start working on B or C until you sign on the dotted line, plunk down a bunch of money, and commit to 4 years.
It's like driving full speed on a half-complete bridge over water and needing to invent and fire up a jet engine before you plummet over the edge." -confettiflyer (Pharmacy Field)
4). "Don't do it. Only a fool would spend the time, money, and effort to get a degree to enter a profession where the prospect of getting a job depends on so much more than having the degree/qualification in and of itself of being a pharmacist. Keep in mind that even if you go to pharmacy school, work/hustle during school, and manage to find a job, you are almost guaranteed to have to move to some BFE state that will force you to adapt to a lifestyle that is starkly different from what you've grown accustomed to (especially if you are from the NE). Pick literally anything else." -PAtoPharm (Pharmacy Field)
5). "It's terrible. I actually visited the thread you were talking about and there seem to be quite a few individuals who just don't want to believe it to the point where they started to attack the OP in an extreme manner. Take my word for it, they're in serious denial and seem like they hate it when someone brings up the truth. The market is not crashing, it already crashed and now new graduates are wandering state to state, holding various amounts of state licenses to find a job. The saturation is real and the market is finished. The very students you saw arguing against the facts are the very same students who go into the field knowing they will be screwed over in the future and still go for it, then come back later on the forums to ask if anyone found a job or to ask if anyone knows anyone else that can connect them with others. It's harsh and facts obviously do not lie." RandomDuck (Medical student, 4th year at StonyBrook)
Other indirect responses to my initial request:
6)."On one level, I think I'm comparing pharmacy's job market to those of other healthcare professions, which are all still in much better shape than pharmacy's. Also, even though it is a good point that most other real-world jobs don't have utopian job markets that are as good as the circa-2005 pharmacy market, I think that the majority of other professions' job markets are at least better off than pharmacy's. I think the fallacy is sort of similar to trying to insist that the lawyer job market is now just a "normal" job market in a similar state to most other professions', when in reality their job market really is objectively in bad shape."- PAtoPharm
7). "One thing I didn't think of when replying was that other health professions have a degree of autonomy that pharmacy is just barely scratching right now. So even if in the future there is an oversupply of dentists (in some places, there are), optometrists, etc... you can still work as yourself in perhaps a limited capacity. That is, you don't have to rely on an employer for work the way pharmacists generally have to do (is opening your own store even a realistic option anymore? doubtful, the last person who seemed to be successful on here is about to get tossed in federal prison, I presume). Like...if you're a really lame dentist, you can still open a clinic and see patients with state insurance that seemingly no one wants to take. I had a childhood friend whose father was a dentist, and their clinic was in their house. Seriously, I'd come over to play Nintendo and this entire wing of the house was a dental office and the mom ran the office."- confettiflyer
8). NYC/Long Island pharmacist job market is appalling.-samven582
9).I hear there are literally no jobs at all in these areas, and it's been like that for a few years now... - Me
10).Jobs are there but full time is rare.-samven582
Anyways, AGAIN...this is for people who want some real insight, and are tired of hearing it from other users on this forum like I was. In the end, its your decision no matter what and no one can stop you. But at least this information is here now from real people in the field. The private messages I wont release because they're private but they all were unanimously in agreement with the public posts I shared.
This was my original plea for advice and insight to the guys over at the real pharm forum.
"I saw this thread because of an user from the prepharm forum warning others about the job market. I noticed that there are some serious deniers out there who think he is trying to discourage them some way. I'm asking you guys, in all honesty please...is the job market really that bad? And why are there so many people on the prepharm sub forum who don't seem to believe it?" -Me
These are the various responses I have received from them.
1)."They are in denial. If they want to work in a small town or rural area, they are golden. If they want to work in a major city, it will be a difficult, uphill battle. This is just a fact." -WVUPharm2007 (verified and working pharmacist)
2)."On a more philosophical level it could be because the grass is always greener on the other side, or because compared to the general population pharmacy is still a good field, or possibly it is cognitive dissonance (my new favorite explanation for most lines of illogical thinking). I don't think the job market is *that* bad. But it certainly isn't the golden days anymore, that is for sure. You might have to movie for a job or you might have to overtrain for one. It sucks, but it is what it is."- owlegrad (SND STAFF member/admin/pharmacist)
3). "It's risk tolerance, and it's all relative. I'll explain.
In 2005, a degree got you a job no matter how terrible you were. By the time you graduate in ~2021, we'll have been 16 years removed from these days. That's the equivalent of telling one of our older members to compare the job market (in general, not pharmacy) in 2000 vs. 1984. It's not fair to compare, so there's some aspect of that going on because 2005 is fairly recent for me personally (as I'm > 30 years old).
On the flip side, the current reality is that to have a better than average shot at getting a decent job, you need two discrete events to occur. Event A = admission to pharmacy school, event B = matching for a residency or event C = obtaining employment early & doing well enough to jump off of that.
If you only achieve A, you're in for a lot of trouble. The problem is, you can't even start working on B or C until you sign on the dotted line, plunk down a bunch of money, and commit to 4 years.
It's like driving full speed on a half-complete bridge over water and needing to invent and fire up a jet engine before you plummet over the edge." -confettiflyer (Pharmacy Field)
4). "Don't do it. Only a fool would spend the time, money, and effort to get a degree to enter a profession where the prospect of getting a job depends on so much more than having the degree/qualification in and of itself of being a pharmacist. Keep in mind that even if you go to pharmacy school, work/hustle during school, and manage to find a job, you are almost guaranteed to have to move to some BFE state that will force you to adapt to a lifestyle that is starkly different from what you've grown accustomed to (especially if you are from the NE). Pick literally anything else." -PAtoPharm (Pharmacy Field)
5). "It's terrible. I actually visited the thread you were talking about and there seem to be quite a few individuals who just don't want to believe it to the point where they started to attack the OP in an extreme manner. Take my word for it, they're in serious denial and seem like they hate it when someone brings up the truth. The market is not crashing, it already crashed and now new graduates are wandering state to state, holding various amounts of state licenses to find a job. The saturation is real and the market is finished. The very students you saw arguing against the facts are the very same students who go into the field knowing they will be screwed over in the future and still go for it, then come back later on the forums to ask if anyone found a job or to ask if anyone knows anyone else that can connect them with others. It's harsh and facts obviously do not lie." RandomDuck (Medical student, 4th year at StonyBrook)
Other indirect responses to my initial request:
6)."On one level, I think I'm comparing pharmacy's job market to those of other healthcare professions, which are all still in much better shape than pharmacy's. Also, even though it is a good point that most other real-world jobs don't have utopian job markets that are as good as the circa-2005 pharmacy market, I think that the majority of other professions' job markets are at least better off than pharmacy's. I think the fallacy is sort of similar to trying to insist that the lawyer job market is now just a "normal" job market in a similar state to most other professions', when in reality their job market really is objectively in bad shape."- PAtoPharm
7). "One thing I didn't think of when replying was that other health professions have a degree of autonomy that pharmacy is just barely scratching right now. So even if in the future there is an oversupply of dentists (in some places, there are), optometrists, etc... you can still work as yourself in perhaps a limited capacity. That is, you don't have to rely on an employer for work the way pharmacists generally have to do (is opening your own store even a realistic option anymore? doubtful, the last person who seemed to be successful on here is about to get tossed in federal prison, I presume). Like...if you're a really lame dentist, you can still open a clinic and see patients with state insurance that seemingly no one wants to take. I had a childhood friend whose father was a dentist, and their clinic was in their house. Seriously, I'd come over to play Nintendo and this entire wing of the house was a dental office and the mom ran the office."- confettiflyer
8). NYC/Long Island pharmacist job market is appalling.-samven582
9).I hear there are literally no jobs at all in these areas, and it's been like that for a few years now... - Me
10).Jobs are there but full time is rare.-samven582
Anyways, AGAIN...this is for people who want some real insight, and are tired of hearing it from other users on this forum like I was. In the end, its your decision no matter what and no one can stop you. But at least this information is here now from real people in the field. The private messages I wont release because they're private but they all were unanimously in agreement with the public posts I shared.
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