In my situation, Is Pharmacy School worth it?

[Sherlock555]

I have the opportunity to begin pharmacy school at my state school at age 32. I’ll be able to graduate debt free, however I’ll also have nothing extra at graduation. I’ll have a working vehicle, but that’s it. But I’ll also be debt free when I finish.

ive been working for years in another field and am looking for a big career change. I’ve shadowed enough to get accepted, and I really like what clinical pharmacists do in hospitals. So I want to do a residency and aim for that route (not retail). I’ll be turning 37 right after I finish residency.

I know the job market is rough, but is that for those with residencies under their belt as well?

what do you think?

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[M0df]

I understand that it is a state school and not as expensive, but when you say debt free. Is it because you have enough savings to pay your way through or because your tuition is covered?

 

[projektreverb]

I’ll be honest, I didn’t even read your post. I just read your question. My answer is no, not worth it.

 

[Sherlock555]

I understand that it is a state school and not as expensive, but when you say debt free. Is it because you have enough savings to pay your way through or because your tuition is covered?

I have exactly enough savings to pay for tuition and living expenses. Other ways I could use it rather than paying for school out of pocket is buying a house for the 4 years to build up equity/avoid paying rent, invest in stocks that can grow over the 4 years, etc. all while taking out loans that I can make minimum payment on over time. Basically, I’ll start when I’m 32, I have the same amount in savings that’s the cost of attendance. Is it worth it? I don’t wanna be 37 and out of a real job...

 

[Dred Pirate]

without reading your situation I would say no!!!
I read your situation and I still say no - don't get me wrong, you would be in a better situation than 90% of people financially, but this is not a profession to go into right now. That being said, I truly enjoy my job, but I would NEVER get it without a two year residency, and even then, it would be hard.
I see so many PGY-2 grads still struggling to find jobs, and most settle for whatever staffing position they can find, no matter where it is.

Go into some technology field, a much better outlook. More and more Rph's are being replaced with barcode scanners and technicians.

 

[Gombrich12]

If you're ok with being unemployed or making $70,000 in 5 years go for it.

 

[Dred Pirate]

If you're ok with being unemployed or making $70,000 in 5 years go for it.

making $70,00 and being treated worse than a fast food worker, and if you mess up you could cost someone their life.

 

[Sherlock555]

If you're ok with being unemployed or making $70,000 in 5 years go for it.

making $70,00 and being treated worse than a fast food worker, and if you mess up you could cost someone their life.

As an ambulatory care pharmacist in a hospital?

 

[Gombrich12]

As an ambulatory care pharmacist in a hospital?

Ambulatory care pharmacist is a unicorn job. If you end up in a hospital most likely you'll be staffing or if you're lucky in a hybrid role. The median outcome for a pharmacy school grad five years out from now is probably making $70-80,000.

 

[Sherlock555]

Ambulatory care pharmacist is a unicorn job. If you end up in a hospital most likely you'll be staffing or if you're lucky in a hybrid role. The median outcome for a pharmacy school grad five years out from now is probably making $70-80,000.

Really? Dang. The only 3 people I know who went to pharmacy school are all ambulatory care hospital pharmacists. They all did a 1-year residency.

 

[DH1987]

Also consider opportunity cost. Remember, that's 4-5 years of your life that you could be using to make money from another job, plus potential gains from investments from that income. If you can attend school and do literally anything debt free, there are definitely better options than pharmacy.

 

[M0df]

Also consider opportunity cost. Remember, that's 4-5 years of your life that you could be using to make money from another job, plus potential gains from investments from that income. If you can attend school and do literally anything debt free, there are definitely better options than pharmacy.

That. You might be debt free but you just lost 4 years of income and 5th year paid as a resident if you are able to do pgy1. So no, I wouldn't do pharmacy and take my chances in my late 30s to start your life from scratch.

 

[sadface]

I think an important question to ask would be what specifically did you like about the clinical pharmacist role that is drawing you to the profession? If there are aspects you can find in other careers with a lower barrier to entry and better job outlook, I would look elsewhere. Most of my small sample size of students have found jobs/residencies but not always their ideal job or location (some going to the middle of nowhere in the Midwest). If you can’t picture yourself doing anything else, and expect to be in the top 10% of students in networking, knowledge, and practical application of that knowledge, pharmacy might be worth investigating further. If any of that doesn’t seem like you, I would consider looking elsewhere. There are a lot of other careers, health related or otherwise, that perhaps may be worth shadowing as well.
A final thought — consider shadowing at another hospital or another pharmacy setting. Hospital practice models (pharmacist responsibilities and workloads) and job satisfaction can be highly variable even in “clinical” positions.

 

[lord999]

No is the safe answer. Any new grad now is completely disposable. Most everyone here is fighting to maintain their jobs or sanity before they get involuntarily retired from grey hair layoffs.

You should only go to pharmacy school if you can graduate in the top 5% or top 10 people (whichever is fewer), work incredibly hard at getting a government residency that comes out with a hard to compete position. And afterwards, always be ready to fight to keep it. For that kind of effort, medicine works better.

Be a nurse, not an APRN or something special, but a pure line nurse if you want a good job even with the cyclical turnover issues if you are a man, because male nurses get positive discrimination in their favor. Rad techs are also a decent career option.

But if you want to waste your time, lose your money, and grow wiser for a misadventure, by all means, come and spend your savings competing for a job that never existed the way academicians sold it.

Don't take our word for it. If your ambulatory pharmacist shadowing didn't give you the hint that the labor market is problematic even with residency, we can't convince you any better. So if you do go to pharmacy school, either you're heavily overqualified or you are going to be poorer in all respects for the experience.

 

[Dred Pirate]

As an ambulatory care pharmacist in a hospital?

There are very few of those positions open. At my hospital we have hired two in the last 9 years. And ya. One was assaulted by a patient. And you likely will need a two year residency to be competitive.

 

[Rukn]

You're better off becoming a crackhead and fighting pharmacists for oxys than getting yourself into this piss poor clown show profession

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

I really like what clinical pharmacists do in hospitals. So I want to do a residency and aim for that route (not retail)

everyone wants to be a pharmacist but nobody wants to work retail

 

[Xenophylia]

There is NO situation where becoming a pharmacist is worth it. Oh wait. Unless you're independently wealthy and have no need for an income after graduation and are only doing it to kill time. Then my answer would be...maybe?

 

[PharmtoCS]

I have exactly enough savings to pay for tuition and living expenses. Other ways I could use it rather than paying for school out of pocket is buying a house for the 4 years to build up equity/avoid paying rent, invest in stocks that can grow over the 4 years, etc. all while taking out loans that I can make minimum payment on over time. Basically, I’ll start when I’m 32, I have the same amount in savings that’s the cost of attendance. Is it worth it? I don’t wanna be 37 and out of a real job...

So you're going to be draining your savings from six figures to zero over 4 years, instead of continuing to work, earn money, and invest letting that money grow with compound interest. Afterwards, you're still likely to be out of a job, if not begging for hours at a retail chain which most new grads are doing right now.

Still a horrible deal even if you graduate "debt free."

 

[OmiPharmD]

I know the job market is rough, but is that for those with residencies under their belt as well?

what do you think?

You are assuming a lot. You may not get a residency at all. Even if you do, yes, it is rough for residency trained pharmacists too.

The job market is terrible. I don't think you are understanding exactly how bad it really is. And it will only be worse in 4 years.

 

[Hels2007]

You should only go to pharmacy school if you can graduate in the top 5% or top 10 people (whichever is fewer), work incredibly hard

Exactly. Be a unicorn-in-the-making. And if you aren't already a unicorn at 32 in your current career or weren't a unicorn when you were last in school, odds are against you being a unicorn in the pharmacy world.

I’ll be turning 37 right after I finish residency

Being an 'older' student usually works against you when competing against bright-eyed bushy-tailed straight-to-pharmacy classmates (unless your current job experience can be directly useful in your selected field of pharmacy, but you would have mentioned it if you had). Not fair, but it's what it is. Can you come up with three solid reasons what would make you MORE competitive than just about everyone in your pharmacy school class?

Full disclosure: I was a unicorn student who didn't quite live up to her promise by reverting back to her natural cynical lazy cow state soon after fellowship. It's hard playing a unicorn for the long haul when you aren't one.

 

[owlegrad]

So you're going to be draining your savings from six figures to zero over 4 years, instead of continuing to work, earn money, and invest letting that money grow with compound interest. Afterwards, you're still likely to be out of a job, if not begging for hours at a retail chain which most new grads are doing right now.

Still a horrible deal even if you graduate "debt free."

This is the winning reply to me. Invest that money in a well diversified portfolio and retire early. Much better plan than going to pharmacy school.

 

[Sunshine98*]

No. Find something else with hopefully a nice return on the degree. Invest some of that money!!

 

[Sherlock555]

You are assuming a lot. You may not get a residency at all. Even if you do, yes, it is rough for residency trained pharmacists too.

The job market is terrible. I don't think you are understanding exactly how bad it really is. And it will only be worse in 4 years.

Dang, that’s nuts. Glad I asked. A few years ago my three friends (now ambulatory care pharmacists) graduated and like 30% of their class went on to residency.

 

[Sherlock555]

There are very few of those positions open. At my hospital we have hired two in the last 9 years. And ya. One was assaulted by a patient. And you likely will need a two year residency to be competitive.

Dang, that’s crazy. I have three friends who graduated a few years ago-they all got their residency of choice and are now in “unicorn” jobs in great locations. They were in the top quarter of their class, but not much higher than that.

 

[Sherlock555]

No is the safe answer. Any new grad now is completely disposable. Most everyone here is fighting to maintain their jobs or sanity before they get involuntarily retired from grey hair layoffs.

You should only go to pharmacy school if you can graduate in the top 5% or top 10 people (whichever is fewer), work incredibly hard at getting a government residency that comes out with a hard to compete position. And afterwards, always be ready to fight to keep it. For that kind of effort, medicine works better.

Be a nurse, not an APRN or something special, but a pure line nurse if you want a good job even with the cyclical turnover issues if you are a man, because male nurses get positive discrimination in their favor. Rad techs are also a decent career option.

But if you want to waste your time, lose your money, and grow wiser for a misadventure, by all means, come and spend your savings competing for a job that never existed the way academicians sold it.

Don't take our word for it. If your ambulatory pharmacist shadowing didn't give you the hint that the labor market is problematic even with residency, we can't convince you any better. So if you do go to pharmacy school, either you're heavily overqualified or you are going to be poorer in all respects for the experience.

Glad I asked. I’ve shadowed ambulatory care pharmacists, but I also have 3 friends who graduated a few years ago, got the residency of their choice, and easily got “unicorn” jobs in great locations. They were in the top 25% of their class, but that’s it.

 

[Sherlock555]

Ambulatory care pharmacist is a unicorn job. If you end up in a hospital most likely you'll be staffing or if you're lucky in a hybrid role. The median outcome for a pharmacy school grad five years out from now is probably making $70-80,000.

Glad I asked. I have three friends who graduated in the top 25% of their class a few years ago, got the residency of their choice, and easily got “unicorn” jobs in great places.

 

[owlegrad]

You don’t have to repeat the same post over and over. You can multi quote if you want.

Why not ask your friends what they think of your plan?

 

[Sherlock555]

You don’t have to repeat the same post over and over. You can multi quote if you want.

Why not ask your friends what they think of your plan?

I have! They all think it’s a brilliant idea haha. But I figured I’d try to get as many opinions as possible.

 

[M0df]

Go for it. Clearly you made up your mind. If I had 3 am care friends, who are loving their jobs, I might feel the same way.

The original question needs to be asked before applying to pharmacy school. Very few people back out after spending time applying.

 

[Sherlock555]

Go for it. Clearly you made up your mind. If I had 3 am care friends, who are loving their jobs, I might feel the same way.

The original question needs to be asked before applying to pharmacy school. Very few people back out after spending time applying.

Why do you think I’ve made up my mind? I’ll be honest, I’m leaning against it. There’s too much research out there. It’s overwhelming. Maybe 3 years ago when they graduated it was better. I did ask them how many of those unicorn jobs have been added at their hospitals since they’ve been there, and that sobered them up. When life is all hunky dory, apparently you get tunnel vision and become pretty ignorant about the rest of reality.

I may try to do a 1-year nursing program, work for a couple years in some cool location on locum, then maybe try for NP depending on the market.

 

[mentos]

I have the opportunity to begin pharmacy school at my state school at age 32. I’ll be able to graduate debt free, however I’ll also have nothing extra at graduation. I’ll have a working vehicle, but that’s it. But I’ll also be debt free when I finish.

ive been working for years in another field and am looking for a big career change. I’ve shadowed enough to get accepted, and I really like what clinical pharmacists do in hospitals. So I want to do a residency and aim for that route (not retail). I’ll be turning 37 right after I finish residency.

I know the job market is rough, but is that for those with residencies under their belt as well?

what do you think?

No.

After a resounding no from all of SDN, OP will probably throw away his life savings into pharmacy school anyway.

 

[Sherlock555]

No.

After a resounding no from all of SDN, OP will probably throw away his life savings into pharmacy school anyway.

Why do you think that? Have you seen all my replies? I’m 90% sure I’m not going to do it. Looking into nursing instead.

 

[mentos]

Why do you think that? Have you seen all my replies? I’m 90% sure I’m not going to do it. Looking into nursing instead.

That's just what usually happens, my bad if you decide not to and good for you. It's really a bloodbath out there for pharmacists.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Glad I asked. I’ve shadowed ambulatory care pharmacists, but I also have 3 friends who graduated a few years ago, got the residency of their choice, and easily got “unicorn” jobs in great locations. They were in the top 25% of their class, but that’s it.

class standing really doesn't mean much (and this is coming from the guy who graduated third out of 108 people) as long as you are in the top half to secure a residency, it is about how you perform and interview. After your PGY-2 most people don't care baout your GPA- and after your first job, NOBODY cares about it

 

[steveysmith54]

I am actually seeing more hospitals hiring PAs now to replace ambulatory care pharmacists. Scope of practice allows them to do more and they might actually be cheaper for the hospital.

My answer to your question is obviously: NO. If you want to live in a desirable location like LA, OC, NY, etc, my answer is HELL NO.

Just in CA, we still have 2 NEW schools that I believe haven't even graduated one single student: UCI and West Coast. Market is only going to get worse and worse. Not to mention Amazon is joining the party and remote verification is going to further reduce job availability...
Hang on to your hats.

 

[quickpic007]

Why do you think that? Have you seen all my replies? I’m 90% sure I’m not going to do it. Looking into nursing instead.

In 2021 nursing is a good bet especially for an associates or fast BSN. More importantly I would really want you to look into all the details on PSLF.
Blowing your bankroll on a pharm.d while PSLF is available and the RPH job market in the toilet is the definition of foolishness. Not to mention the material you learn in pharmacy school is so broad yet unrelated to most of our jobs its just a shame.

New grads in my nearest major metro are starting off 20/hr less than me and are bragging about getting 40 hours. Its a joke.

 

[BC_89]

In my 30's graduating next year debt free - I still recommend going elsewhere for a career change.

My background is greatly different though when compared to anyone else (I actually make $$ being a student while still having the ability to invest and save). Although I am willing to work anywhere from retail to hospital, my goal is landing a gov position (GS level) upon graduation. I mention this because even as a med. retired military veteran who's spent years working as a pharmacy tech for the DOD (and currently landing my last year rotation sites at the VA) it still has shown to be quite the uphill battle for potential job placements.

Also, my ability to be gainfully or partly employed does not negatively affect my current family living situation. If anything, the job placement would allow extra opportunities to quickly and more rapidly pursue my hobbies and wants in a more extravagant way than otherwise.

 

[NonTradPharmStudent]

Really? Dang. The only 3 people I know who went to pharmacy school are all ambulatory care hospital pharmacists. They all did a 1-year residency.

Amcare pharmacists are phasing out in the private sector because it is cheaper to pay a PA/NP to essentially do the same thing plus more in this case write prescriptions. Amcare pharmacists (CPP) or whatever are undercontract for certain disease states rather than the entirety of primary care which limits their scope of practice. In addition, these pharmacists whether they will admit or not are working under a NP/PA even though on paper it does not show as such. The amcare in the VA and maybe even in DHA somewhat is a great gig. Most amcare positions outside of the federal govt systems are tied to school systems who actually pay those pharmacists to take on students rather in addition to work/position for the private institution.

 

[Localnative]

Not a pharmacist.
Doc around 15 yrs your Junior
Stay far away from most health care professions aside from CRNA or PA in swank plastics clinic.

take your money, invest judiciously
Spread it out over some commodities, gold miners, Dividend growers and some low cost ETFs. Don’t marry or have kids. Rent. Move to a coastal city south of the Mason Dixon. Learn how to trade options as a passive income strategy. Enjoy life and drown out the noise of this current chaotic world.

 

[Splenda88]

If you can do well in the MCAT, go MD/DO. I know it will be 2 yrs longer but it's gonna worth it.

I was in a similar situation. Declined acceptances to PharmD program after I learned about the job market here in SDN. That was ~8 yrs ago. Studied for the MCAT and got MD/DO acceptance the following year. It was a fantastic decision looking back. Just about to finish IM residency, had multiple job offers (6) and already signed a contract.

Just an example of how flexible medicine can be: One of my co-residents got a hospitalist job working 1 wk on and 3 wks off close to a big metro. Salary ~160k/yr, 10k sign on bonus with all benefits (401k, insurance, CME money etc...)

Don't let the extra 2 yrs or residency scares you.

 

[steveysmith54]

If you can do well in the MCAT, go MD/DO. I know it will be 2 yrs longer but it's gonna worth it.

I was in a similar situation. Declined acceptances to PharmD program after I learned about the job market here in SDN. That was ~8 yrs ago. Studied for the MCAT and got MD/DO acceptance the following year. It was a fantastic decision looking back. Just about to finish IM residency, had multiple job offers (6) and already signed a contract.

Just an example of how flexible medicine can be: One of my co-residents got a hospitalist job working 1 wk on and 3 wks off close to a big metro. Salary ~160k/yr, 10k sign on bonus with all benefits (401k, insurance, CME money etc...)

Don't let the extra 2 yrs or residency scares you.

congrats on your success. You made a tough decision and took the longer route, glad to see you rewarded for your hard work..

 

[Sparda29]

If you can do well in the MCAT, go MD/DO. I know it will be 2 yrs longer but it's gonna worth it.

I was in a similar situation. Declined acceptances to PharmD program after I learned about the job market here in SDN. That was ~8 yrs ago. Studied for the MCAT and got MD/DO acceptance the following year. It was a fantastic decision looking back. Just about to finish IM residency, had multiple job offers (6) and already signed a contract.

Just an example of how flexible medicine can be: One of my co-residents got a hospitalist job working 1 wk on and 3 wks off close to a big metro. Salary ~160k/yr, 10k sign on bonus with all benefits (401k, insurance, CME money etc...)

Don't let the extra 2 yrs or residency scares you.

Hold up. $160k a year? To be an attending hospitalist? That's it?

I make close to that much as an overnight Rph doing 7 on 7 off near NYC. Albeit, I only got to this salary after 7 years experience and the reason this hospital and others in the area pay so much is because property taxes are so damn high around here.

I would have thought an attending hospitalist would start off at at least $250k-300k a year.

 

[Splenda88]

Hold up. $160k a year? To be an attending hospitalist? That's it?

I make close to that much as an overnight Rph doing 7 on 7 off near NYC. Albeit, I only got to this salary after 7 years experience and the reason this hospital and others in the area pay so much is because property taxes are so damn high around here.

I would have thought an attending hospitalist would start off at at least $250k-300k a year.

That person is working only 1 wk every month (1 wk on and 3 wks off).

 

[Sparda29]

That person is working only 1 wk every month (1 wk on and 3 wks off).

One week as in 12 hour shifts, or 1 week of on call?

 

[Splenda88]

One week as in 12 hour shifts, or 1 week of on call.

12 hrs shift for 1 week (7 days of 12 hrs) and got 3 wks off. No calls at all. Consider that individual has 3 wks vacation every month.

This is for ~160k/yr plus benefits, not a bad deal.

 

[Sparda29]

12 hrs shift for 1 week (7 days of 12 hrs) and got 3 wks off. No calls at all. Consider that individual has 3 wks vacation every month.

This is for ~160k/yr plus benefits, not a bad deal.

Oh, now that seems pretty damn good. It's about $160/hr if you calculate it.

 

[Splenda88]

Oh, now that seems pretty damn good. It's about $160/hr if you calculate it.

I think it's around $150/hr

 

[Splenda88]

I would consider engineering, computer science, anesthesiology assistant, nursing followed np/crna, PA, CPA before pharmacy or optometry. Even if some of these don’t start 120k, your debt will be much less and you have realistic potential to reach it

Job security is not the best for most engineering fields. The NP market is getting saturated in many cities and nice suburbia.

 

[Chrish]

**** this profession.. If you end up in retail, it’s cut, cut, cut and more cuts. Basically a dead end without even start.

Hospital? Not gonna get it without 2 year residency and even then it’s a crapshoot if you want to practice in desirable locations. You need excellent recommendations and need to network like there is no tomorrow to get those positions.

Why would ANYONE want to put themselves into that situation?