In need of advice...

[dukboki]

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Folks,

I am a paratrooper who has been in the Army for over six years now. I am reaching my job dissatisfaction point - the second choice career isn't what I thought it would be. Now that I'm older and can see past my undergraduate rationalization that "hey, the Army is always there" I'm looking to get back to my original goals of practicing medicine.

However, I am in a tough spot. I am deployed so I can't take classes at a local college. I would like to take online courses to satisfy some of the pre-reqs that I didn't get when I was an undergrad but am not sure how the schools will look at that. I am also trying to find an organic chemistry course online that could grant a lab like they do with physics (through computer simulation) but I'm coming up on a dry hole.

My GPA was horrible as an undergrad - 2.5 to be exact. Science was 2.3. I have two masters now and those have a GPA of 3.5 and 3.8 so I'm hoping that will count for something. I am also preparing to shadow a surgeon here to observe some battlefield medicine and get some pointers as time goes on.

I know it's going to be a LONG road, but I'm willing to take that path. I can retire in my 40s from the Army as either a LTC line officer or LTC MD/DO. Can anyone help me out?

 

[DrMassacre]

Folks,

I am a paratrooper who has been in the Army for over six years now. I am reaching my job dissatisfaction point - the second choice career isn't what I thought it would be. Now that I'm older and can see past my undergraduate rationalization that "hey, the Army is always there" I'm looking to get back to my original goals of practicing medicine.

However, I am in a tough spot. I am deployed so I can't take classes at a local college. I would like to take online courses to satisfy some of the pre-reqs that I didn't get when I was an undergrad but am not sure how the schools will look at that. I am also trying to find an organic chemistry course online that could grant a lab like they do with physics (through computer simulation) but I'm coming up on a dry hole.

My GPA was horrible as an undergrad - 2.5 to be exact. Science was 2.3. I have two masters now and those have a GPA of 3.5 and 3.8 so I'm hoping that will count for something. I am also preparing to shadow a surgeon here to observe some battlefield medicine and get some pointers as time goes on.

I know it's going to be a LONG road, but I'm willing to take that path. I can retire in my 40s from the Army as either a LTC line officer or LTC MD/DO. Can anyone help me out?

I don't know if its viable or not but I would suggest taking a year and doing a post bacc to get your basic sciences out of the way, take the mcats and apply. im not sure how adcoms look upon online courses...sorry i cant help more!

 

[blee]

Where do you want to go to school? Is USUHS on your list? The reason I'm asking is that you should contact a couple of med schools you want to attend and ask them what it will take for you to become a competitive applicant. My gut feeling is that most online course offerings are not going to make the cut, particularly when it comes to chemistry labs, but I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.

 

[dukboki]

Where do you want to go to school? Is USUHS on your list? The reason I'm asking is that you should contact a couple of med schools you want to attend and ask them what it will take for you to become a competitive applicant. My gut feeling is that most online course offerings are not going to make the cut, particularly when it comes to chemistry labs, but I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.

USUHS is on my list - as an active duty officer, I think this probably will be my best shot if I can get a good MCAT score. I just have to find a way to knock out these pre-reqs without having a break in service - not ready to be unemployed just yet.

 

[roboyce]

What is your branch and where are you stationed?

 

[LO281OK]

I got out of the navy and did my premed reqs at my original school (Clemson) while on the GI Bill. Taking a year to get the credits and then another year to apply (this year) hasn't been fun, waiting that is, but it paid off with a 4.0 in my postbac courses and a 33 on the MCATs. I guess I am saying that if you can't get it done while active duty, it is still worth it (and easier I think) to do it afterward. Just my $.02.

Good Luck

 

[nonlethal]

There is a military medicine forum http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=72 that you should check out and (hopefully) get some more insight into your position. Alot of the peeps over there have been through what you're talking about now. I for one was enlisted (Marines) and decided to get out in order to go to school, so can only pass on what has been passed on to me.
It sounds like your biggest problem however, is geography. Not alot of chem labs along the DMZ or in The Sandbox.... Could you just wait until you rotated back stateside and then do a post-bacc on/ near base?
About the online classes, I really can't speak for any school (I haven't even taken the MCAT yet, or applied to anywhere, or anything else) but I did just find out the other day that most adcoms really don't look too highly on online classes. Imagine my excitement when I was told I get to retake calculus.... :

 

[dukboki]

What is your branch and where are you stationed?

I am an Army officer stationed at Fort Bragg, NC. I found out that NC State does a distance delivery if you can't make class but you still have to come on campus to take exams and do the labs. While I think most big research schools will frown on distance ed (my alma mater Vanderbilt responded today that they don't take those classes at all), I'm hoping some other places can see past that...

 

[medhacker]

I am an Army officer stationed at Fort Bragg, NC. I found out that NC State does a distance delivery if you can't make class but you still have to come on campus to take exams and do the labs. While I think most big research schools will frown on distance ed (my alma mater Vanderbilt responded today that they don't take those classes at all), I'm hoping some other places can see past that...

Hi dukboki


USUHS will not take them at leat they didn't a few years ago. Some schools will not mind. The only problem you face is the labs, any accredited distance program will generally not offer labs. So perhaps you could do the lectures and then take the labs traditionally. That is what I did for some of my classes and have 2 interviews at two schools one of them a top - 20 Usnews school for all that matters... best wishes

 

[efex101]

What about the schools in Fayeteville? can you not take the pre-reqs there? it is probably best to take some classes that are not online to prove your academic prowess to adcoms. Regardless of what we may think they need substantial proof that you can "hack" it in medical school and this is done via a proven "recent" record of good solid grades.

 

[roboyce]

I am an Army officer stationed at Fort Bragg, NC. I found out that NC State does a distance delivery if you can't make class but you still have to come on campus to take exams and do the labs. While I think most big research schools will frown on distance ed (my alma mater Vanderbilt responded today that they don't take those classes at all), I'm hoping some other places can see past that...

Let me rephrase my original question...what is your MOS? What unit are you in? Have you looked at Cambell College? I don't think that it's far from Bragg. What about ECU? Might be worth declaring NC residency while you're here if you're interested in UNC or ECU for med school. I think it would be tough to be on AD and try to get all of your pre-reqs out of the way. It's certainly not going to happen while you're deployed. Seems like it would take longer to muddle through one or two classes a semester while at Bragg than to get out, take one-year post Bac and apply to USUHS. Yeah, you'll have a break in service, but how is that really going to hurt you? I'm pretty sure you'll go back to 2LT no matter what. It's not like the Army has an abundance of qualified docs kicking and screaming to hang around for 20 years.

 

[BigJ77]

Folks,

I am a paratrooper who has been in the Army for over six years now. I am reaching my job dissatisfaction point - the second choice career isn't what I thought it would be. Now that I'm older and can see past my undergraduate rationalization that "hey, the Army is always there" I'm looking to get back to my original goals of practicing medicine.

However, I am in a tough spot. I am deployed so I can't take classes at a local college. I would like to take online courses to satisfy some of the pre-reqs that I didn't get when I was an undergrad but am not sure how the schools will look at that. I am also trying to find an organic chemistry course online that could grant a lab like they do with physics (through computer simulation) but I'm coming up on a dry hole.

My GPA was horrible as an undergrad - 2.5 to be exact. Science was 2.3. I have two masters now and those have a GPA of 3.5 and 3.8 so I'm hoping that will count for something. I am also preparing to shadow a surgeon here to observe some battlefield medicine and get some pointers as time goes on.

I know it's going to be a LONG road, but I'm willing to take that path. I can retire in my 40s from the Army as either a LTC line officer or LTC MD/DO. Can anyone help me out?

Dukboki,

First, is Dukboki that incredible Korean dish that you get in those tents on the streets in Korea? I miss and love that stuff!!

I am an active duty officer with 5 monts left on my commitment. I too have been deployed the majority of my career. I have good news for you! You can take online classes now that are worth something. Back when I was in Korea, they did not offer to many online. I am currently taking Anatomy and Phys, BIO Lab, I high level bio course all through the university of maryland and Genetics through SUNY (State Univeristy of NY). They of course are accredited. Matter of fact, I am taking more classes this winter and into the spring until I start summer school when I get out. UC Berkeley offers intro to organic chem, Immuno, and biochem all online. I am going to take the intro to organic in Jan just to get a head start on organic in the summer. If you have any more questions PM me and I will tell you some more schools. Do not give up! It is possible and where there is a will there is a way!

j

 

[dukboki]

Hi dukboki


USUHS will not take them at leat they didn't a few years ago. Some schools will not mind. The only problem you face is the labs, any accredited distance program will generally not offer labs. So perhaps you could do the lectures and then take the labs traditionally. That is what I did for some of my classes and have 2 interviews at two schools one of them a top - 20 Usnews school for all that matters... best wishes

the best part is that nc state will allow me to do that - i'll do the delivery via distance and then go to the labs, study sessions, and office hours with the professor. i'm hoping that it will allow me to get a letter of recommendation from them - the 60-70 hour a week schedule doesn't allow otherwise. which schools do you have interviews at and did you do the science classes distance?

 

[dukboki]

What about the schools in Fayeteville? can you not take the pre-reqs there? it is probably best to take some classes that are not online to prove your academic prowess to adcoms. Regardless of what we may think they need substantial proof that you can "hack" it in medical school and this is done via a proven "recent" record of good solid grades.

when looking at some of the local schools, the primary problem is the schedules. they schedule the classes i need during the day when i'm supposed to be at work. i doubt the battalion commander will let a company commander run off in the middle of the day to go to college when he has a unit to lead.

i am looking at the ed center to do some classes with campbell - they're looking at offering organic chemistry, physics, and biochemistry there. i think the rest such as the math and others i'll have to finagle over distance.

 

[dukboki]

Dukboki,

First, is Dukboki that incredible Korean dish that you get in those tents on the streets in Korea? I miss and love that stuff!!

I am an active duty officer with 5 monts left on my commitment. I too have been deployed the majority of my career. I have good news for you! You can take online classes now that are worth something. Back when I was in Korea, they did not offer to many online. I am currently taking Anatomy and Phys, BIO Lab, I high level bio course all through the university of maryland and Genetics through SUNY (State Univeristy of NY). They of course are accredited. Matter of fact, I am taking more classes this winter and into the spring until I start summer school when I get out. UC Berkeley offers intro to organic chem, Immuno, and biochem all online. I am going to take the intro to organic in Jan just to get a head start on organic in the summer. If you have any more questions PM me and I will tell you some more schools. Do not give up! It is possible and where there is a will there is a way!

j

First, yes, dukboki is the spicy rice cake dish you get at a "pojang mat cha" as we call it.

I am looking at taking those courses - however, I didn't know that U of M offered those courses. Here's a question though - have you been in contact with schools yet to see what they say? I have been in contact with a handful and it's been half and half - some say they take the courses into consideration along with your reason why you couldn't take them normally and some will just flat out tell you no. Let me know how it goes - I'll get some of the basics reviewed while still deployed (general chem, calculus, etc.) since I already had those at Vanderbilt. But the rest I'll have to try the local ed center to see what happens. Thanks!

 

[dukboki]

Let me rephrase my original question...what is your MOS? What unit are you in? Have you looked at Cambell College? I don't think that it's far from Bragg. What about ECU? Might be worth declaring NC residency while you're here if you're interested in UNC or ECU for med school. I think it would be tough to be on AD and try to get all of your pre-reqs out of the way. It's certainly not going to happen while you're deployed. Seems like it would take longer to muddle through one or two classes a semester while at Bragg than to get out, take one-year post Bac and apply to USUHS. Yeah, you'll have a break in service, but how is that really going to hurt you? I'm pretty sure you'll go back to 2LT no matter what. It's not like the Army has an abundance of qualified docs kicking and screaming to hang around for 20 years.

MOS? 92D. Airdrop systems officer. Yes, I've looked into Campbell - they are offering some of the courses I need on Fort Bragg in residence. That's the good news. The bad news is that if I wanted to take others on their campus, they don't offer them in the evenings. I think I can still stay on AD and get the pre-reqs out of the way - it'll just take two years instead of one.

With the USUHS option, yes, I will stay on active duty but wear 2LT while there - a small trade off for the cost of the education. But upon graduation, recommission to CPT, get credit for time in service, and a year later (I'll have almost 9 years when I start school), get looked at for Major. All that quick. I'm in contact with their office - just waiting to see if they'll accept some distance courses for all of this. Thanks!

 

[roboyce]

MOS? 92D. Airdrop systems officer. Yes, I've looked into Campbell - they are offering some of the courses I need on Fort Bragg in residence. That's the good news. The bad news is that if I wanted to take others on their campus, they don't offer them in the evenings. I think I can still stay on AD and get the pre-reqs out of the way - it'll just take two years instead of one.

With the USUHS option, yes, I will stay on active duty but wear 2LT while there - a small trade off for the cost of the education. But upon graduation, recommission to CPT, get credit for time in service, and a year later (I'll have almost 9 years when I start school), get looked at for Major. All that quick. I'm in contact with their office - just waiting to see if they'll accept some distance courses for all of this. Thanks!

Supply from the Sky...nice. I just ETSed as an Infantry CPT so take some heart when I say that I know the pace of life on active duty, especially at a FORSCOM post like Bragg. Where were you in Korea?. I was at Casey in 2002. Manchu!

Now, here's my opinion and please take it for what it's worth and nothing more. Given your low GPA (even from a great school like Vandy), you're going to have a difficult time proving to almost any medical school that you can handle the rigorous basic science courses. This is really the situation you need to address. You can do all the volunteer work and shadowing you want, but those things just don't get your foot in the door, which is really key. Trust me, I'm going through the process now. I'm finding that it's my GPA and MCAT that gets me a first look, then the other experiences, such as those you find in the military that make you stand out at interviews. A masters degree is a good way to go back and show that you can handle the workload, however, I'm assuming (given your previous statments) that yours are online degrees and probably not in the sciences. I just don't think that's going to pass muster with the ADCOMs...please understand that is my assessment of the view from the ADCOMs, not my personal valuation of online degrees. If you really want to make a go at this, you've got to show that you can perform in an academic environment like medical school. To me at least, that means you've got to take some science classes in residence at a good school. This might mean post-bac or it might mean masters, but the bottom line is that you can't get it done while on active duty. I don't mean to be harsh, but I think it's a decision you're going to have to make. You can either stay on active duty or you can pursue medical school. I don't think you can do both because your grades are going to raise serious issues no matter where you apply unless you've got recent proof that you can cut it. No online or non-resident program is going to provide you with that. Go to the post bac forum and ask around.

As I said before, if USUHS is the place for you, a break in service is not really going to hurt you. It's not like they can take away your prior service time. It's still going to count towards retirement and you're still going to be light years ahead of your peers. If retiring at 20 is so important, then stay in as a 92D and finish up your 20, retire, and go to med school at 42.

As I said, this is just my opinion...and everyone knows opinions are like azzholes. I suggest you get another one. Call a medical school admissions office once application season dies down and go meet with an admissions officer. I'm sure they could provide you with good advice. Maybe Moosepilot (Air Force Officer currently going through the application cycle) can chime in as well with some advice if you need it.

If I can be of any help, please feel free to PM me. I was lucky and did all of my pre-reqs prior to commissioning. I took the MCAT while on AD, but that's not as labor intensive as trying to knock out a bunch of classes. Good luck to you.

R

 

[dukboki]

Supply from the Sky...nice. I just ETSed as an Infantry CPT so take some heart when I say that I know the pace of life on active duty, especially at a FORSCOM post like Bragg. Where were you in Korea?. I was at Casey in 2002. Manchu!

Now, here's my opinion and please take it for what it's worth and nothing more. Given your low GPA (even from a great school like Vandy), you're going to have a difficult time proving to almost any medical school that you can handle the rigorous basic science courses. This is really the situation you need to address. You can do all the volunteer work and shadowing you want, but those things just don't get your foot in the door, which is really key. Trust me, I'm going through the process now. I'm finding that it's my GPA and MCAT that gets me a first look, then the other experiences, such as those you find in the military that make you stand out at interviews. A masters degree is a good way to go back and show that you can handle the workload, however, I'm assuming (given your previous statments) that yours are online degrees and probably not in the sciences. I just don't think that's going to pass muster with the ADCOMs...please understand that is my assessment of the view from the ADCOMs, not my personal valuation of online degrees. If you really want to make a go at this, you've got to show that you can perform in an academic environment like medical school. To me at least, that means you've got to take some science classes in residence at a good school. This might mean post-bac or it might mean masters, but the bottom line is that you can't get it done while on active duty. I don't mean to be harsh, but I think it's a decision you're going to have to make. You can either stay on active duty or you can pursue medical school. I don't think you can do both because your grades are going to raise serious issues no matter where you apply unless you've got recent proof that you can cut it. No online or non-resident program is going to provide you with that. Go to the post bac forum and ask around.

As I said before, if USUHS is the place for you, a break in service is not really going to hurt you. It's not like they can take away your prior service time. It's still going to count towards retirement and you're still going to be light years ahead of your peers. If retiring at 20 is so important, then stay in as a 92D and finish up your 20, retire, and go to med school at 42.

As I said, this is just my opinion...and everyone knows opinions are like azzholes. I suggest you get another one. Call a medical school admissions office once application season dies down and go meet with an admissions officer. I'm sure they could provide you with good advice. Maybe Moosepilot (Air Force Officer currently going through the application cycle) can chime in as well with some advice if you need it.

If I can be of any help, please feel free to PM me. I was lucky and did all of my pre-reqs prior to commissioning. I took the MCAT while on AD, but that's not as labor intensive as trying to knock out a bunch of classes. Good luck to you.

R

Candor is key - never apologize for that one! Korea from 2000 - 2002. I was down at Humphreys though - didn't want 2ID. I figured life would be hard enough later on, why punish yourself early?

As for the pre-reqs, yeah, it's going to go a semester or two longer than what I'd like but I found out the base ed center does have the pre-reqs available. Labs will be conducted at the JFK Special Warfare Center where they train the 18 series medics. Should be interesting.

In touch with some of the ADCOM chairs right now - some say no, others say they look more favorably on the in-residence stuff but if distance/residence labs at NC State is all I have available, then go for it and explain it in the personal statement. Still waiting to hear from USUHS on what they think but so far it's been a mix of MD and DO schools telling me that the biggest thing I'd have going for me is being non-traditional and still going after it while on active duty. We'll see how it pans out - I have to take the classes first!

Thanks!

 

[medworm]

Not sure if anyone mentioned UC Berkeley Extension's Online classes for pre-med prereqs. Don't know specific details, but you go at your own pace. Not tied down to taking weekly quizzes and scheduled exams, I'd guess.

Good luck.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Not sure if anyone mentioned UC Berkeley Extension's Online classes for pre-med prereqs. Don't know specific details, but you go at your own pace. Not tied down to taking weekly quizzes and scheduled exams, I'd guess.

Good luck.

yep.
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