In need of your advice. Please help.

[FattySlug]

I am a very average applicant for the match this year in IM. Step 1&2 is 227 and 240. Grades are mostly high pass through 3rd and 4th year. The real worry is I just found out I failed step 2 CS on the CIS which is kinda ludicrous since talking and connecting to patients have always been my strength and one of the selling points of my application. All my evals and Dean's letters highlight that fact.

I am able to get a test date that will give me a score back before the ranking probably early 2/2016. So far I have gotten a few interviews but seeing now that I have a failed exam on my transcript I hope to get your input into the list of programs I applied. My original goal is to match at a decent program in Cali but now I just want some program with decent fellowship match. I also found out that Scripps Mercy and Methodist only consider applicants that pass exams on first attempt.

1) What other programs can you recommend me adding to my list? And should I even add them at this point seeing that they will see the fail on my transcript?

2) I know there is little data but how bad did I hurt myself by failing that CS? Some programs flat out say that you need to pass on first try but Loma Linda and USC say nothing on their website.

3) My Dean offers to help me come up with an approach to address the issue if it comes up in interview but I also want to hear what you guys think. Should I proactive address the failure so I at least have a chance to explain myself during the interview or just simply submit both the fail and the pass once I have the result back?

Interviews:



Applied:
Baylor University Medical Center Program

Boston University Medical Center Program

Brown University Program

California Pacific Medical Center Program

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Program

Eisenhower Medical Center Program

Kaiser Permanente Medical Group (Northern California)/San Francisco Program

Kaiser Permanente Medical Group (Northern California)/Santa Clara Program

Kaiser Permanente Southern California (Los Angeles) Program

Loma Linda University Program

Los Angeles County-Harbor-UCLA Medical Center Program

Methodist Hospital (Houston) Program

Olive View/UCLA Medical Center Program

Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital Program

Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green Hospital Program

Scripps Mercy Hospital Program

Stanford University Program

Texas A&M College of Medicine-Scott and White Program

Tufts Medical Center Program

UCLA Medical Center Program

University of Arizona College of Medicine at South Campus Program

University of Arizona Program

University of California (Davis) Health System Program

University of California (Irvine) Program

University of California (San Diego) Program

University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno Program

University of California Riverside School of Medicine Program

University of Nevada School of Medicine (Las Vegas) Program

University of Nevada School of Medicine Program

University of New Mexico Program

University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program

University of Texas at Austin Dell Medical School Program

University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston Program

University of Arizona College of Medicine-Phoenix Program

University of Texas Health Science Center School of Medicine at San Antonio Program

University of Texas Medical Branch Hospitals Program

University of Texas Southwestern Medical School Program

St Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center Program

Loyola University Program

Mayo Clinic College of Medicine (Arizona) Program

Rush University Medical Center Program

University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program

University of California (San Francisco) Program

Alameda Health System-Highland Hospital Program

White Memorial Medical Center Program

Riverside Community Hospital/University of California Riverside School of Medicine Program

San Joaquin General Hospital Program

Santa Clara Valley Medical Center Program

St Mary Medical Center Program

Huntington Memorial Hospital Program

Kaiser Permanente Medical Group (Northern California/Oakland) Program

Kaiser Permanente Southern California Program

Kern Medical Center Program

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[Thrombophlebitis]

There was another poster on this forum who put a list of 70 or so programs which consider students with a failed CS. I suggest you look for it and apply to ALL of them. Did your score auto release to the programs? If not you're very lucky since they won't see the fail. Just try to pass the CS and then inform them immediately about your passing score as soon as it's out.

 

[jdh71]

There really isn't any advice to give. Pass it second try. And hope for the best. The test catches a few people every year and it's pretty stupid. We all know it. But USMLE makes too much money off of it now. It's not going anywhere.

The whole test is a big check list. You just have to make sure on your exam and history your are basically asking and doing everything that can fit a checked box. And the same with the note. You need to have sections for HPI, PHM, SH, FH, and ROS. Those sections needs to be clearly spelled out - even if all you say is "refer to HPI" - the section needs to be in the note.

No on grades you on your differential.

 

[FattySlug]

There was another poster on this forum who put a list of 70 or so programs which consider students with a failed CS. I suggest you look for it and apply to ALL of them. Did your score auto release to the programs? If not you're very lucky since they won't see the fail. Just try to pass the CS and then inform them immediately about your passing score as soon as it's out.

There was no auto release so as of now they don't know about the fail. I will take a look at that list. Thanks.

Edit: I can't find that list anywhere. Anybody can help? Thanks.

 

[jdh71]

There was no auto release so as of now they don't know about the fail. I will take a look at that list. Thanks.

Edit: I can't find that list anywhere. Anybody can help? Thanks.

If they don't know, they don't know. Just pass it next try. Rank. Match.

 

[FattySlug]

If they don't know, they don't know. Just pass it next try. Rank. Match.

Some programs require step 2 cs score before ranking and they will see a fail and a pass. How much would that hurt I have no idea. Nothing I can do now except to pass it anyways. I am actually thinking about selectively releasing the passing score to the programs that require it to rank and hide it from the rest until after the match. Thank you for your advice.

 

[Crayola227]

I would not hide it until after match. You could hide it until after you've secured enough interviews to feel like you'll be OK for enough # for your rank list and then explain it in person (I don't think they withdraw II but if someone here can answer that great).

Otherwise, my step 2 CK (which was a fine score for me) I was hounded about at every interview (I took late and score didn't come out until Jan or Fed I think) and some programs told me to be sure to email it as an update.

So I would interview, release before rank list ASAP after interview season effectively done (I wouldn't expect many more offers after Jan and if they do extend that last min they are probably in need enough of more candidates to II and hopefully you'll have enough by then anyway) and then be sure to email all programs that you passed CS on your second try, and maybe a blurb about why you think the first pass didn't go well, what you learned, and maybe another blurb about how much you like the program and hope that your interview and the rest of your app shows that this was a blip.

Others could chime in here.
I just think it's a mistake to reveal the nonpass before you've gotten enough invites, and it's not like you're going to get this one past them if you reveal later on but before rank list submit. If your plan is to tell them anyway before ranking may as well bite bullet and explain.

The risk of trying to hide until after lists submitted is that there are enough applicants with all 3 passed (1,2,CS) to look good that maybe they'll put you bottom for not having all 3 or not rank at all. Again, others please chime in how inportant is it to programs to see a pass vs how harmful to show a fail and a pass?

 

[Crayola227]

Good strategy to see who wants it to rank vs not, but how in the world do you suss that put? And evem if it's party line they don't need/use it what if that's BS in that they still will go with applicants that show a pass over you?

BTW most of the programs you listed are pretty laid back and if you offer an explanation rather than a black hole might be OK with it if you think you charmed them memorable at interview

 

[FattySlug]

Good strategy to see who wants it to rank vs not, but how in the world do you suss that put? And evem if it's party line they don't need/use it what if that's BS in that they still will go with applicants that show a pass over you?

BTW most of the programs you listed are pretty laid back and if you offer an explanation rather than a black hole might be OK with it if you think you charmed them memorable at interview

I can call and ask if they want to see CS result before ranking and only release if they require it. They would not know who I am anyway. I do know I need to release all scores before ranking for cali programs and Mass.

I am not going to release the CS before I am done with all my interviews and having a pass. Right now I have about 10 invites with step 1 and CK results. I will interview as many places as I can.

I dont know whether to proactively address the fail now during interview or just quietly submit a pass after I am done. Leaning toward the latter.

 

[Crayola227]

I think a proactive explain of the fail/pass for which programs you have to let the cat out of bag before rank list submit is better than a "quiet" release. You can't get a fail past them before rank if it's released. All you can do is explain it. Without an explanation I think it would look much worse.

 

[Beacopp665]

Idk... Programs only care about you passing so that you can start on time without any hang ups. That's why some places require the passing CS before ranking so they don't have to risk newly matched people from having a delayed start date. If you pass it the second time and get your score back before ranking I don't think it'll matter. If you don't pass the second time then you're kind of up a creek...

 

[Raryn]

Some programs require step 2 cs score before ranking and they will see a fail and a pass. How much would that hurt I have no idea. Nothing I can do now except to pass it anyways. I am actually thinking about selectively releasing the passing score to the programs that require it to rank and hide it from the rest until after the match. Thank you for your advice.

Not possible. You either release an updated transcript to all programs or none at all. You can't selectively do it.

 

[Crayola227]

The only reason to hide a fail is when you're trying to get interview invites or if you truly know they'll rank sight unseen on CS, and not only that, that they regard applicants with all 3 just as highly as applicants without a CS on the books. Sure, they may say you don't need it for ranking, but they may just rank those who passed all 3 with respect to one another, then stick everyone who didn't or they don't have a score all the way at the bottom as safety matches. They want cream of the crop but 2nd priority is also want to fill, you don't want to become everyone's "safety" rank. Otherwise, if they want to see CS before ranking it's better to reveal and bring it up if they don't at the interview, and I would argue even if they say they don't need to see it, I would still wonder where that puts you.

(I hope when you call to ask thinking it's anonymous that you're blocking your cell or number they have on file for you. I wouldn't put it past them to try to figure out who's asking and infer why)

That way at the time they have your app in front of them (even if they don't) they always seem to take notes about you at the time. You would rather they write while they remember you clearly "failed CS but passed 2nd time, interviewed well, good command of English, doesn't seem stupid, think it was fluke due to" rather than forget how much they like you, see it later when they've forgotten you more, and the whole thing is a mystery they'd rather not chance on and rank you bottom on that alone.

They have plenty of applicants that passed all three that they will like, be sure you have the best chance of explaining why they should like you just as much anyway.

Just my thoughts. Or "quietly" submit and have them go "WTF is this about?"

I agree they don't care that much and just want a pass, but unless your app is so rockstar that seeing a fail then a pass is enough to make them rank you regardless (and high enough!!), I would rather calm any fears than hope it slides under the radar.

I mean, I didn't do all that great on the shelf and that came up at many interviews since it was mentioned in an LOR (which was otherwise glowing). A good step score and a good explanation and everyone seemed to nod reassuringly and take note. Any red flag they might see before ranking it's always better to explain than leave a question mark. They may not be proactive in soliciting an explanation. Don't leave them wondering if you release it.

 

[Crayola227]

People seem to think if a red flag doesn't come to anyone's attention that being ranked is all you need. Being ranked is not enough to ensure a match, being ranked HIGH enough is. If they have 20 spots, interview 200 (they often say they interview 10:1) think 20% or 40 are douches, of the remaining 160 they like and want to rank (I'm pulling numbers) if most programs rank you say, at 80, depending how many programs do that and how far down the rank list they match, everyone below say 40 on the list will not match. Then on to the next program on your list. Rinse and repeat

TL;DR:
Being ranked isn't enough to ensure a match. Being ranked high enough is. Don't let red flags w/o explanation or lack of info to a program put you at the bottom.

 

[FattySlug]

People seem to think if a red flag doesn't come to anyone's attention that being ranked is all you need. Being ranked is not enough to ensure a match, being ranked HIGH enough is. If they have 20 spots, interview 200 (they often say they interview 10:1) think 20% or 40 are douches, of the remaining 160 they like and want to rank (I'm pulling numbers) if most programs rank you say, at 80, depending how many programs do that and how far down the rank list they match, everyone below say 40 on the list will not match. Then on to the next program on your list. Rinse and repeat

TL;DR:
Being ranked isn't enough to ensure a match. Being ranked high enough is. Don't let red flags w/o explanation or lack of info to a program put you at the bottom.

Thank you very much for your advice. Now I do agree with you that explaining the fail on interview is the better approach. They failed me on CIS and all my evals and dean's letter praise me for my communications skills with the patient so I hope thay see that this result does not reflect a weakness in that area. I am meeting with my dean soon for her input. Hopefully she would agree with this approach. Thanks again.

 

[jdh71]

Idk... Programs only care about you passing so that you can start on time without any hang ups. That's why some places require the passing CS before ranking so they don't have to risk newly matched people from having a delayed start date. If you pass it the second time and get your score back before ranking I don't think it'll matter. If you don't pass the second time then you're kind of up a creek...

There is nothing about CS that would delay a start. CS has nothing to do with residency. It needs to ultimately be passed to apply for a license but has zero bearing in residency.

 

[Raryn]

There is nothing about CS that would delay a start. CS has nothing to do with residency. It needs to ultimately be passed to apply for a license but has zero bearing in residency.

I don't know the proportion, but I do know a good number of medical schools require a pass on both halves of step 2 to get a diploma. No diploma, no starting residency.

 

[jdh71]

I don't know the proportion, but I do know a good number of medical schools require a pass on both halves of step 2 to get a diploma. No diploma, no starting residency.

That's a different beast though. There isn't even anything about CS that ties it to a diploma. It's part of the licensing exams.

 

[Nivakia]

You should apply for some low tier programs.

 

[RedSoxSuck]

Question: What if an applicant failed CS but re-took it and passed on 2nd try and then submitted ERAS? How does that hurt or help?

OP, i miss UCR

 

[Beacopp665]

That's a different beast though. There isn't even anything about CS that ties it to a diploma. It's part of the licensing exams.

Raryn's right that's what I was referring to, and my school is one of those that ties it to graduation. Agree with you that it shouldn't have bearing on getting a diploma, but that's what the powers that be dictate

 

[jdh71]

Raryn's right that's what I was referring to, and my school is one of those that ties it to graduation. Agree with you that it shouldn't have bearing on getting a diploma, but that's what the powers that be dictate

Roger that.

 

[Nivakia]

Look dude your biggest concern is do well on CS. I think you need to just take the easier route and focus on your priorities.

 

[Crayola227]

Question: What if an applicant failed CS but re-took it and passed on 2nd try and then submitted ERAS? How does that hurt or help?

OP, i miss UCR

Failing anything ever = always is bad.

And hell yes failing CS is bad news, whether tied to grad or not. It's not necessarily a career ender, but you want to pass and if there's any scoring, you want do well, you want to be sure any program gets a good explanation on the first fail and if you can show proof how well you did the next time around if scores aren't released but are available.

If you can get attendings/mentor/PD/Dean at your school to also provide that they think the fail was a fluke and why and how great you are with patients, differentials, and documentation (the key components of CS) that'd be good too. Only provide info/updates like that to programs that have offered you interviews already, if interviews are offered they are considering you seriously and hence actually give a **** about additional info on you, as opposed to all the kids on here wanting to email God and everyone every 5 min to browbeat programs that haven't shown interest to offer interviews.

If you don't match, you will need to take Step 3 and kill it. If you do match, you'll want to take Step 3 early on and KILL it. This is to help make the program feel good about you early on to counteract the negative of the CS fail. Last thing you want is the negative halo effect from increased scrutiny because of this. It's not like a good Step 3 makes up for a Step 2 CS, they're different beasts, but doing well on any licensing test is all you can do.

 

[FattySlug]

Failing anything ever = always is bad.

And hell yes failing CS is bad news, whether tied to grad or not. It's not necessarily a career ender, but you want to pass and if there's any scoring, you want do well, you want to be sure any program gets a good explanation on the first fail and if you can show proof how well you did the next time around if scores aren't released but are available.

If you can get attendings/mentor/PD/Dean at your school to also provide that they think the fail was a fluke and why and how great you are with patients, differentials, and documentation (the key components of CS) that'd be good too. Only provide info/updates like that to programs that have offered you interviews already, if interviews are offered they are considering you seriously and hence actually give a **** about additional info on you, as opposed to all the kids on here wanting to email God and everyone every 5 min to browbeat programs that haven't shown interest to offer interviews.

If you don't match, you will need to take Step 3 and kill it. If you do match, you'll want to take Step 3 early on and KILL it. This is to help make the program feel good about you early on to counteract the negative of the CS fail. Last thing you want is the negative halo effect from increased scrutiny because of this. It's not like a good Step 3 makes up for a Step 2 CS, they're different beasts, but doing well on any licensing test is all you can do.

I talked to my Dean and she thinks I can either proactively explain it or quietly submit the pass after it comes out. She is leaning toward the quiet submit but also looked at my file and said she is willing to talk to any PD about that CS was more like a fluke because all my evals saying I am good at talking to patients. That is an important point because I failed the CIS portion. Taking all that into account, I made up my mind to just explain that to one of the interviewers on interview day. I think it sounds so much better that I am able to say my Dean will back me up on that. She also told me another kid in my school failed CS and matched at his #2 so I hope I will be as lucky. Thank you for all your advice so far.

 

[ptoi]

This is why I think CS is such a horrid test. It costs an arm and a leg, is only available in five cities, and every single AMG I've known who didn't pass it was perfectly competent and had an unlucky test day. I hope everything goes okay for you!

 

[PDIsani]

I just took Step 3 last month. The new rule requires you to be in residency and pass the CS first before taking it. So you are in trouble if you dont pass it.

 

[Laplace]

There really isn't any advice to give. Pass it second try. And hope for the best. The test catches a few people every year and it's pretty stupid. We all know it. But USMLE makes too much money off of it now. It's not going anywhere.

The whole test is a big check list. You just have to make sure on your exam and history your are basically asking and doing everything that can fit a checked box. And the same with the note. You need to have sections for HPI, PHM, SH, FH, and ROS. Those sections needs to be clearly spelled out - even if all you say is "refer to HPI" - the section needs to be in the note.

No on grades you on your differential.

"The NBME transcript, called the NBME Record of Scores, includes identification information and passing history of NBME Part examination scores. NBME Part failing history is reported when specifically requested or required by a licensing authority. "

From http://www.nbme.org/Cert-tran/Scores-and-transcripts.html

It seems as if only your passing score will be reported for the ERAS transcript, only the state licensing board would see the fail.

 

[HAL3000]

There is no reason to reveal your CS score.

I am fairly confident that your CS result in no way reflects your clinical ability. Agree with jdh in that CS is simply an addition to the already bloated medical regulatory industrial complex. Programs will not care about your CS score as they will assume that you will have passed by the time you start, which in no way is a check on your clinical preparedness but simply to make sure that you are cleared to take step 3 and become licensed in time. If a program actually seriously relies on CS results to rank applicants, I would question the quality of that PD.

That being said, the ranking process is an extremely fickle and many times random one. Do not give the committee anything negative to remember you by, as there is a high likelihood that there are other applicants who are academically indistinguishable from you and the committee will look for anything to help rank one over the other.

In short, the programs will not care about CS at all so don't give them a reason to by telling them about the fail before match. There are a few that require a passing CS score prior to ranking, so you may be out of luck for those, though I still recommend contacting those PDs directly to explain your situation, perhaps via your dean.

 

[FattySlug]

"The NBME transcript, called the NBME Record of Scores, includes identification information and passing history of NBME Part examination scores. NBME Part failing history is reported when specifically requested or required by a licensing authority. "

From http://www.nbme.org/Cert-tran/Scores-and-transcripts.html

It seems as if only your passing score will be reported for the ERAS transcript, only the state licensing board would see the fail.

Wow if this is true this is a completely different ballgame. Anybody can confirm this?? Reading this makes me think that the fail will not show if I pass it second try.

 

[Chrome19]

So sorry about your failure. Just buckle at it and try again. One of the nicest and humanistic people I know failed CS due to low CIS metrics. I was upset.

I wish med students across multiple cycles would unify and not take Step 2 CS, similar to the revolt by physicians against the ABIM and their ridiculous MOC fraud. I truly felt CS was a waste of time and $$$$! The lunch was horrible too. Most expensive crappy sandwiches I ever ate.

 

[Chrome19]

Also use check4change (firefox app, I think) to get new CS date. Spots sometimes pop up randomly once people cancel/re-schedule their exams.

 

[RedSoxSuck]

Lets say for argument sake, I failed CS and then re took it and passed. So when i submitted my ERAS, programs saw that i failed CS but then passed on my 2nd attempt. So programs are seeing my complete application with everything passed (CS on 2nd attempt but passed). How does this impact my application vs programs only seeing my failed CS attempt because i didn't retake it yet.


I mean both scenario's suck but i would assume that CS not being passed when they are looking at my application is worse than seeing failed and then passed CS.

 

[FattySlug]

There is no reason to reveal your CS score.

I am fairly confident that your CS result in no way reflects your clinical ability. Agree with jdh in that CS is simply an addition to the already bloated medical regulatory industrial complex. Programs will not care about your CS score as they will assume that you will have passed by the time you start, which in no way is a check on your clinical preparedness but simply to make sure that you are cleared to take step 3 and become licensed in time. If a program actually seriously relies on CS results to rank applicants, I would question the quality of that PD.

That being said, the ranking process is an extremely fickle and many times random one. Do not give the committee anything negative to remember you by, as there is a high likelihood that there are other applicants who are academically indistinguishable from you and the committee will look for anything to help rank one over the other.

In short, the programs will not care about CS at all so don't give them a reason to by telling them about the fail before match. There are a few that require a passing CS score prior to ranking, so you may be out of luck for those, though I still recommend contacting those PDs directly to explain your situation, perhaps via your dean.

I understand your rationale and thought about not mentioning it at first but most programs in CA and MA want to see a pass before ranking so I thought it was best to explain during interview since they are going to see it anyway. I dont want them to see the fail and a pass and wonder what caused me to fail in the first place without any explanation from me. However if the transcript wont reveal the fail if i passed it the second try like the poster above said then i will definitely not mention it.

 

[Laplace]

Wow if this is true this is a completely different ballgame. Anybody can confirm this?? Reading this makes me think that the fail will not show if I pass it second try.

Your best bet would be to call NBME or check with your home institution PD. Let us know what to find out, I'm curious.

 

[FattySlug]

Your best bet would be to call NBME or check with your home institution PD. Let us know what to find out, I'm curious.

Just called. Both attempts will be shown. That paragraph on the web refer to an old exam that no longer exists.

 

[rogerthis]

I can call and ask if they want to see CS result before ranking and only release if they require it. They would not know who I am anyway. I do know I need to release all scores before ranking for cali programs and Mass.

I am not going to release the CS before I am done with all my interviews and having a pass. Right now I have about 10 invites with step 1 and CK results. I will interview as many places as I can.

I dont know whether to proactively address the fail now during interview or just quietly submit a pass after I am done. Leaning toward the latter.

Did you call the MA and CA programs individually to make sure they require the Step 2 scores before they will rank? It seems unlikely that applicants have not been ranked by most CA or MA programs solely because they did not report Step 2 scores.

My stance is that it may be wiser to have enough programs ranked that you cover yourself for the programs that won't rank you without seeing your Step 2 CS fail until after you match. It's still up in the air with regards to if it truly matters for ranking with nothing but hearsay unless you confirm it directly from the programs you interviewed at.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I am fairly confident that your CS result in no way reflects your clinical ability. Agree with jdh in that CS is simply an addition to the already bloated medical regulatory industrial complex. Programs will not care about your CS score as they will assume that you will have passed by the time you start, which in no way is a check on your clinical preparedness but simply to make sure that you are cleared to take step 3 and become licensed in time. If a program actually seriously relies on CS results to rank applicants, I would question the quality of that PD.

I'm going to quibble with this. I agree that the CS exam is ridic expensive / travel costs / inconvenience / etc. But stating that programs don't care at all is incorrect. When CS started, I saw it as completely ridiculous and didn't worry whether people failed it or not. Then, we had several residents who failed it initially (obviously subsequently passed) who had major problems in our program. We have come to the conclusion that no failure can be simply dismissed as a fluke.

Lets say for argument sake, I failed CS and then re took it and passed. So when i submitted my ERAS, programs saw that i failed CS but then passed on my 2nd attempt. So programs are seeing my complete application with everything passed (CS on 2nd attempt but passed). How does this impact my application vs programs only seeing my failed CS attempt because i didn't retake it yet.


I mean both scenario's suck but i would assume that CS not being passed when they are looking at my application is worse than seeing failed and then passed CS.

All else equal, it's always better to have a passing score. The question asked is usually "should I apply now with my failed CS, or apply late with a passed CS?". That's more complicated.

Wow if this is true this is a completely different ballgame. Anybody can confirm this?? Reading this makes me think that the fail will not show if I pass it second try.

Looks like it's answered above, but we see all attempts. When we create a "filter", the filter runs on only the last score. And there is no way to make a filter for more than one attempt on the USMLE/COMLEX. But when I review your application, the multiple attempts are clearly displayed.

 

[FattySlug]

I'm going to quibble with this. I agree that the CS exam is ridic expensive / travel costs / inconvenience / etc. But stating that programs don't care at all is incorrect. When CS started, I saw it as completely ridiculous and didn't worry whether people failed it or not. Then, we had several residents who failed it initially (obviously subsequently passed) who had major problems in our program. We have come to the conclusion that no failure can be simply dismissed as a fluke.



All else equal, it's always better to have a passing score. The question asked is usually "should I apply now with my failed CS, or apply late with a passed CS?". That's more complicated.



Looks like it's answered above, but we see all attempts. When we create a "filter", the filter runs on only the last score. And there is no way to make a filter for more than one attempt on the USMLE/COMLEX. But when I review your application, the multiple attempts are clearly displayed.

Can you offer some input on how I should approach this during interview? As I discussed above with another poster, the 2 options are either (1) proactively address the failure or (2) not mentioning it at all and just quietly submit a passing score when it is time for ranking.

I am leaning toward 1 since my dean is on my side on this and said I can tell programs to contact her and she will back me up. I failed the CIS and all evals said I am good at talking to the patients.

2 is simpler since I dont draw negative attention during interview but risk hurting my rank since they dont have any explaination for my failure. I plan to explain the situation by emails to all programs after submitting the passing score but obviously it is not as good as doing so in person.

Thank you.

 

[CatFactorial]

Why draw attention to it if you can quietly remediate the issue?

 

[rogerthis]

Can you offer some input on how I should approach this during interview? As I discussed above with another poster, the 2 options are either (1) proactively address the failure or (2) not mentioning it at all and just quietly submit a passing score when it is time for ranking.

I am leaning toward 1 since my dean is on my side on this and said I can tell programs to contact her and she will back me up. I failed the CIS and all evals said I am good at talking to the patients.

2 is simpler since I dont draw negative attention during interview but risk hurting my rank since they dont have any explaination for my failure. I plan to explain the situation by emails to all programs after submitting the passing score but obviously it is not as good as doing so in person.

Thank you.

So as aProgDirector mentioned in the earlier post,

We have come to the conclusion that no failure can be simply dismissed as a fluke.

You're in a good position right now with the number of interviews you have. Sure, some programs are strict about having Step 2 scores reported pre-ROL deadline. It comes down to a risk/benefit question of whether the risk of reporting the failed CS score pre-ROL deadline is more deleterious than the possibility of programs not ranking you at all or lower on the ROL without the completed Step 2 scores. Regardless of which option you choose, the ultimate consequence would be matching somewhere lower on your rank list in both scenarios assuming you go to all of your interviews. It would be a much bigger issue if you did not have interviews without your Step 2 scores and wanted to use that to boost the number of your invites you had.

 

[Crayola227]

Moral of the story is that yes, it's fine to keep this to yourself as you try to *gain* invites, but when it comes time to ranking, THEY WILL BE LOOKING AT STEPS. They will either have a blank no score, the fail and pass and your story in hand, or the fail and pass with no story in hand. You pick. It is not like that Low Pass you got in anatomy, failed then passed steps escapes no one's notice for ranking.

 

[FattySlug]

Just to close the loop on this thread, I ended up not mentioning the fail during interview and not releasing the score prior to match. I matched in my top 3 at a pretty decent program in Cali. Thanks everyone for their advice. Especially to aProgDirector and Jdh71 for privately counseling me on the matter. Anyone unlucky enough to find themselves in my situation can pm me for further details though there is not much more to add to the story.

 

[rogerthis]

Just to close the loop on this thread, I ended up not mentioning the fail during interview and not releasing the score prior to match. I matched in my top 3 at a pretty decent program in Cali. Thanks everyone for their advice. Especially to aProgDirector and Jdh71 for privately counseling me on the matter. Anyone unlucky enough to find themselves in my situation can pm me for further details though there is not much more to add to the story.

I would also like to follow-up and say that I matched into my first choice program in California that never asked about my Step 2 scores at all and I did not mention it or re-release them.