Incoming D1 and really stressed out

[TanMan]

I hope you're right haha, like I said, just trying to offer some perspective. To me it's totally understandable that a lot of people are upset about the overall situation. I think a lot of current dental students are at least a little worried that it's going to be more difficult than they anticipated to pay their debt. Part of the concern is the possibility that becoming an owner like you becomes less and less feasible with corporitization and high debt loads discouraging and possibly outright preventing practice purchase/startup for new grads.

People may go into dentistry knowing that you guys are still doing good and ownership is key only to find that the barriers to actually becoming an owner have gotten higher and higher since they were a predent.

Yes, people may be upset. The better question is whether people are people doing anything about their situation. As I've advocated, start cheap, produce fast. There's no need for 500k startup practices or 500k-1mm practice purchases. Anything that allows you to get a handpiece in your hand and start drilling is sufficient. Most associates should have 100k to spare just by working a year or two.

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[charlestweed]

There's no need for 500k startup practices or 500k-1mm practice purchases.

I don't really understand why some dentists pay so much to set up their new offices. What do they buy? Even $300k is way too much for me. There are plenty of existing practices here in CA that are listed for sale for much less. My wife bought an existing one for $92k and I bought an existing ortho office for $165k. I also set up my own office from scratch for $85k + another $30-35k for chairs and equipment. Last year, I paid the guy $50k to convert an existing medical office to an ortho office. A lot of my colleagues on the orthotown forum asked me why my contractor charged me so little. I told them it's because I am not too picky....I get used to working at a corp setting....and I don't need fancy equipment in order to attract patients and to do good work.

Anything that allows you to get a handpiece in your hand and start drilling is sufficient. Most associates should have 100k to spare just by working a year or two.

My friend, who is a very successful GP, told me the same thing. On one slow morning, he told me he did an easy premolar RCT for $250 (which was less 1/2 of what he normally charges). He said getting $250 is better than sitting around doing nothing. He and his wife (who is also a GP) recently sold their $800k house, which he paid off before his 40th birthday, and moved into their brand new $2 million house in a gated community in Newport Beach. He will turn 50 next year. Now, like Coldfront, he and his wife only work 1-2 days/week....and just let their associate treat all the medicaid patients.

Most associates should have 100k to spare just by working a year or two.

And if they can't save $100k, they can continue to work part time as an associate at a chain and run their own office (which is still slow at the beginning) at the same time. That's what many of my dentist friends and I did. When my sister, who is a general dentist, started her office, she worked 3 days/week (Saturdays and Sundays) at her own office and 4 days/week for a chain. After about 1-2 years, when her own office produced more, she quit the job at the chain.

 

[pubhealthdent]

I agree with everything said here. The biggest problem is this elephant in the room:

Why The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Headlines Are Misleading

The headlines surrounding Public Service Loan Forgiveness are misleading. Understand the nuances and learn why the program is working as intended.

www.forbes.com

"The numbers from the most recent Federal Student Aid data support that conclusion. FedLoan Servicing reports data on how many borrowers have made a certain number of qualifying payments. As of August 2018, it's as follows:

• 91-120 Months (8 to 10 years): 1,724 - Estimated Forgiveness 2019 to 2021
• 73-96 Months (6 to 8 years): 10,428 - Estimated Forgiveness 2021 to 2023
• 49-92 Months (4 to 6 years): 45,235 - Estimated Forgiveness 2023 to 2025
• 25-48 Months (2 to 4 years): 147,686 - Estimated Forgiveness 2025 to 2027
• 1-24 Months (up to 2 years): 413,922 - Estimated Forgiveness 2027 to 2029"

99% Of Borrowers Rejected Again For Student Loan Forgiveness

More than 99% of borrowers were rejected for student loan forgiveness.

www.forbes.com

"How many student loan borrowers were approved for student loan forgiveness?

Approximately 610 applications have been approved and 338 borrowers have collectively received $21.1 million in public service loan forgiveness. Cumulatively, only about 640 borrowers have received public service loan forgiveness based on approximately 132,000 processed applications. That's less than 0.5%.

"

Honestly, I would be surprised if PSLF holds up into the next decade. It is unsustainable with the current debt loads. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets scrapped and the borrowers get screwed, and or taxed for amount forgiven or whatever.

My question is that of these 132,000 processed applications- did they actually work for 10 years then apply for PSLF...and get rejected and in the end only 610 applicants approved? Cuz that's crazy to pay the minimum...let interest accrue...and then apply year 10- think oh hey everything is forgiven- but then you are rejected...and now have a 500k loan tab that has interest on it for the past 10 years. Am I reading this right or wrong?

Most of the ones who started in the first couple years of the program were either not making qualifying payments or didn't have the right types of loans. In it's inception, the steps to take were much less clear than they are now. Which is why they instituted a secondary TEPSLF program to help out those who thought they were following all the rules, but weren't actually

 

[321931]

Well hopefully make sure you follow the rules to the dot- for anyone:

Teachers union sues Betsy DeVos over loan forgiveness program - CNN Politics

The American Federation of Teachers union sued Education Secretary Betsy DeVos Thursday, alleging that the department has mismanaged a federal program that grants teachers and other public service workers loan forgiveness after they make 10 years of payments.

www.cnn.com

I doubt it will get better.