Incoming medical students using their leverage to secure others scholarship money?

[eaglebaseball4]

I read an article this past week about college athletes potentially using their leverage as “superstars” to secure others scholarships to attend their college institution. In the article, it looked at Duke University for example: a great basketball program and a great school. It talked about how a superstar basketball player could possibly leverage the school by saying “hey if you give a student from my high school X amount of dollars in scholarship money to attend your school, then I will pick to play basketball at your school over others.” In a sense, this is a way of showing altruism. This would allow a very low income student the opportunity to earn a degree from a top notch school for free. Coming from a low income and rural/small town, applying this idea to the medical admissions process intrigued me. Personally, I am not a “superstar” applicant. I have one acceptance and 1 WL spot. But I just want to throw this idea out there to others who may be altruistic; could this idea possibly be implemented for the superstars of the medical admissions process? Thanks for your replies!

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[ThoracicGuy]

I read an article this past week about college athletes potentially using their leverage as “superstars” to secure others scholarships to attend their college institution. In the article, it looked at Duke University for example: a great basketball program and a great school. It talked about how a superstar basketball player could possibly leverage the school by saying “hey if you give a student from my high school X amount of dollars in scholarship money to attend your school, then I will pick to play basketball at your school over others.” In a sense, this is a way of showing altruism. This would allow a very low income student the opportunity to earn a degree from a top notch school for free. Coming from a low income and rural/small town, applying this idea to the medical admissions process intrigued me. Personally, I am not a “superstar” applicant. I have one acceptance and 1 WL spot. But I just want to throw this idea out there to others who may be altruistic; could this idea possibly be implemented for the superstars of the medical admissions process? Thanks for your replies!

No.

 

[deleted480308]

I read an article this past week about college athletes potentially using their leverage as “superstars” to secure others scholarships to attend their college institution. In the article, it looked at Duke University for example: a great basketball program and a great school. It talked about how a superstar basketball player could possibly leverage the school by saying “hey if you give a student from my high school X amount of dollars in scholarship money to attend your school, then I will pick to play basketball at your school over others.” In a sense, this is a way of showing altruism. This would allow a very low income student the opportunity to earn a degree from a top notch school for free. Coming from a low income and rural/small town, applying this idea to the medical admissions process intrigued me. Personally, I am not a “superstar” applicant. I have one acceptance and 1 WL spot. But I just want to throw this idea out there to others who may be altruistic; could this idea possibly be implemented for the superstars of the medical admissions process? Thanks for your replies!

no, there's a line a mile long. All students are replaceable

 

[eaglebaseball4]

no, there's a line a mile long. All students are replaceable

That is what I figured. It was just an idea I wanted to throw around. If there was a way for me to help a student who otherwise couldn’t afford college a chance to earn a degree for free (through this forum) (I understand I am not a superstar) I wanted to seek it out.

 

[deleted480308]

That is what I figured. It was just an idea I wanted to throw around. If there was a way for me to help a student who otherwise couldn’t afford college a chance to earn a degree for free (through this forum) (I understand I am not a superstar) I wanted to seek it out.

in america everyone can afford college with fafsa. And that's before noting that a ton of employers pay for college and community colleges are extremely cheap

 

[eaglebaseball4]

in america everyone can afford college with fafsa. And that's before noting that a ton of employers pay for college and community colleges are extremely cheap

With loans, yes. I understand that (I have undergrad loans myself). I was referring to someone getting a top university undergrad degree for half price or free.

 

[965978]

With loans, yes. I understand that (I have undergrad loans myself). I was referring to someone getting a top university undergrad degree for half price or free.

Top undergrads give the most grants to low income students.

 

[EasyEveryoneWouldDoIt]

superstar athletes generate millions of dollars in revenue for their school and national exposure. i doubt any "superstar" medical school could do the same, unless there were any noble prize winners or medal of honor recipients who decided they suddenly wanted to purse medical school. there is just no can't miss med school applicant with that type of leverage where the med school can't just be like "next"

 

[PreMedMissteps]

in america everyone can afford college with fafsa. And that's before noting that a ton of employers pay for college and community colleges are extremely cheap

? FAFSA is an app for fed aid, which isn’t much. Fed aid is often not enough to afford college. With states like IL and PA that have state schools with tuition/fees/books that are $15k-20k+ per year (not counting room and board), fed aid would not nearly be enough.

 

[deleted480308]

? FAFSA is an app for fed aid, which isn’t much. Fed aid is often not enough to afford college. With states like IL and PA that have state schools with tuition/fees/books that are $15k-20k+ per year (not counting room and board), fed aid would not nearly be enough.

it absolutely is enough to afford going to school. I don't know where you are getting that it isn't

 

[ciestar]

? FAFSA is an app for fed aid, which isn’t much. Fed aid is often not enough to afford college. With states like IL and PA that have state schools with tuition/fees/books that are $15k-20k+ per year (not counting room and board), fed aid would not nearly be enough.

Wasn’t enough for me at a PA state school.
I got Pell, a State Grant, some other grants, a small scholarship, and even with the max stafford loans, i STILL was short a few thousand dollars tuition. I had to fight to get a Perkins loan. Eventually couldn’t get one anymore and luckily had an aunt who offered to help me, otherwise, I wouldn’t have finished undergrad.

 

[deleted480308]

Wasn’t enough for me at a PA state school.
I got Pell, a State Grant, some other grants, a small scholarship, and even with the max stafford loans, i STILL was short a few thousand dollars tuition. I had to fight to get a Perkins loan. Eventually couldn’t get one anymore and luckily had an aunt who offered to help me, otherwise, I wouldn’t have finished undergrad.

if you were short a few thousand, you should be able to cover that with a job

 

[TJinDaHouse]

That crazy man, I got way more for my loans than I needed for school. Even got me a dope ass ride. Gonna save me money not havin to catch a ride

 

[OchemOficionado]

I work at a University and have a large population of students assigned to me and I see vast variations in aid coverage. Some students can get enough from FAFSA at certain institutions and many can’t. It may be hard to believe, but even with aid, financing college is a barrier for a lot of students.

 

[ciestar]

if you were short a few thousand, you should be able to cover that with a job

Don’t act like it is that simple. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and had no transportation (talking summers here). I had never had a job before college, and when I did, I couldn’t keep up with the demands of nursing school and a job.

Whatever, judge me. Idc. It isn’t always so black and white and acting like a few thousand is no big deal. For some, it really is.

 

[deleted480308]

Don’t act like it is that simple. I grew up in the middle of nowhere and had no transportation (talking summers here). I had never had a job before college, and when I did, I couldn’t keep up with the demands of nursing school and a job.

Whatever, judge me. Idc. It isn’t always so black and white and acting like a few thousand is no big deal. For some, it really is.

I never went a semester without a job. It can be done

What a ridiculous statement to say college educations are affordable for everyone in America with financial aid. Most middle class families get financial aid packages in the form of loans. 60K a year in loans is affordable to most Americans?

you don’t need 60k in loans if you are reasonable with your school choice. College is attainable in america

 

[ciestar]

I never went a semester without a job. It can be done
you don’t need 60k in loans if you are reasonable with your school choice. College is attainable in america

Good for you. I couldn’t do it.

 

[deleted962973]

I never went a semester without a job. It can be done
you don’t need 60k in loans if you are reasonable with your school choice. College is attainable in america

I appreciate that you were willing and able to find work during college, but my university’s work-study program primarily offered part time positions that paid ~$8-10/hr. There is no way you can work 20 hours a week on $8/hr and afford even $30K in tuition. A college education is not affordable in America unless you’re very wealthy or very poor. I’ve repeatedly seen my middle class parents get screwed over by financial aid.

 

[ciestar]

What a ridiculous statement to say college educations are affordable for everyone in America with financial aid. Most middle class families get financial aid packages in the form of loans. 60K a year in loans is affordable to most Americans?

PA is absolutely terrible in terms of afforability of education. State schools are really expensive and there arent cc’s everywhere, either.

 

[OchemOficionado]

College is attainable in america

FOR SOME. . . Which is what I think everyone else is trying to say. Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities, capabilities, responsibilities, etc.

 

[TJinDaHouse]

Maybe if you rich or something. Ain’t that about white. I know I’m gonna be hurtin later but the interest cheaper than on financing a ride thru dealer

 

[deleted480308]

I appreciate that you were willing and able to find work during college, but my university’s work-study program primarily offered part time positions that paid ~$8-10/hr. There is no way you can work 20 hours a week on $8/hr and afford even $30K in tuition. A college education is not affordable in America unless you’re very wealthy or very poor. I’ve repeatedly seen my middle class parents get screwed over by financial aid.

I worked full time. It can be done

 

[deleted480308]

FOR SOME. . . Which is what I think everyone else is trying to say. Everyone doesn't have the same opportunities, capabilities, responsibilities, etc.

That’s a cop out. It’s harder for some but it can be done if you work it hard enough

 

[OchemOficionado]

That’s a cop out. It’s harder for some but it can be done if you work it hard enough

No, it's reality for some. I know it's hard, in general, to understand some things we have no experience with or can't even fathom, but the truth is EVERYONE can't overcome the barriers in front of them sometimes. Should we encourage others to be all they can be, to work hard and never give up? Absolutely. But, I think we should be careful about pushing a narrative that it's impossible to not be able to afford college or make it work as you did while working full-time during undergrad. There are people telling you what was not possible for them and your response is well, yes it was. I would say we should approach the topic with compassion.

 

[deleted480308]

No, it's reality for some. I know it's hard to understand some things we not have experience with or can't even fathom, but the truth is EVERYONE can't overcome the barriers in front of them sometimes. Should we encourage others to be all they can be, to work hard and never give up? Absolutely. But, I think we should be careful about pushing a narrative that it's impossible to not be able to afford college or make it work as you did while working full-time during undergrad. There are people telling you what was not possible for them and your response is well, yes it was. I would say we should approach the topic with compassion.

I don’t view it as compassionate to affirm a false narrative of victimhood. It can be done

 

[DokterMom]

I read an article this past week about college athletes potentially using their leverage as “superstars” to secure others scholarships to attend their college institution. In the article, it looked at Duke University for example: a great basketball program and a great school. It talked about how a superstar basketball player could possibly leverage the school by saying “hey if you give a student from my high school X amount of dollars in scholarship money to attend your school, then I will pick to play basketball at your school over others.” In a sense, this is a way of showing altruism. This would allow a very low income student the opportunity to earn a degree from a top notch school for free. Coming from a low income and rural/small town, applying this idea to the medical admissions process intrigued me. Personally, I am not a “superstar” applicant. I have one acceptance and 1 WL spot. But I just want to throw this idea out there to others who may be altruistic; could this idea possibly be implemented for the superstars of the medical admissions process? Thanks for your replies!

Best I've seen is for a superstar to be able to secure admission for 'qualified but not superstar' significant other.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Best I've seen is for a superstar to be able to secure admission for 'qualified but not superstar' significant other.

To pull this off you'd have to be the biggest superstar in the history of medical school admissions; if you had a 4.0, a 525, and a Nobel Peace Prize, you might have a shot at pulling this off. It might or might not also be possible with an eight-figure donation. Other than that? Tough luck.

 

[Gilakend]

To pull this off you'd have to be the biggest superstar in the history of medical school admissions; if you had a 4.0, a 525, and a Nobel Peace Prize, you might have a shot at pulling this off. It might or might not also be possible with an eight-figure donation. Other than that? Tough luck.

On a pre-interview form for a school I interviewed at it specifically asked “are you applying with a significant other and hoping to attend the same school? If so list their name here.” So maybe they’re more open than we think to the idea

 

[deleted480308]

Yeah so I’m just gonna go ahead and call this stubborn ignorance. As I mentioned, it’s mathematically impossible for many students to pay their tuition via work-study, and if they’re in the middle class zone where they don’t get grants, or their only acceptance is to an institution that doesn’t offer much in the way of aid, then an education in this country is not affordable. Let’s no forget about the $5000-10000 barrier to even apply for higher education in medicine, which is a cost many of my international friends rightfully balk at.

Try stepping out of the country into literally any other part of the world and look at how their education systems are set up. To call America affordable when amazing universities like Oxford and Cambridge charge just £9000/yr is once again, ignorance.

You’re all over the place. I never said work study was the way to pay for it

Next time you find someone who says they cannot afford college have them pm me if they willing to share their financials and I will walk them through it

 

[deleted962973]

You’re all over the place. I never said work study was the way to pay for it

Next time you find someone who says they cannot afford college have them pm me if they willing to share their financials and I will walk them through it

Work Study is normally the way to pay for school if you don’t qualify for grants and don’t want to take out loans. Outside jobs may not always be accommodating to student schedules (ie, interviews, taking time off for tests, sports commitments) whereas jobs on campus usually are. Jobs not on campus may also require transportation, tacking on another expense to already financially overburdened students.

I think the bootstraps mentality is great in theory, but it ignores a lot of the very real barriers that are placed in the way of low SES, racial minority, and underresourced middle class students. It’s a reductively simple statement to say education is affordable as long as you’re filing out the FAFSA.

 

[deleted480308]

Work Study is normally the way to pay for school if you don’t qualify for grants and don’t want to take out loans. Outside jobs may not always be accommodating to student schedules (ie, interviews, taking time off for tests, sports commitments) whereas jobs on campus usually are. Jobs not on campus may also require transportation, tacking on another expense to already financially overburdened students.

I think the bootstraps mentality is great in theory, but it ignores a lot of the very real barriers that are placed in the way of low SES, racial minority, and underresourced middle class students. It’s a reductively simple statement to say education is affordable as long as you’re filing out the FAFSA.

If you’re broke you shouldn’t be taking time off for studying for tests or for sports. Go to work

You also shouldn’t be restricting yourself to the hours and pay offered to work study

My offer stands

 

[realitysickness]

I don’t view it as compassionate to affirm a false narrative of victimhood. It can be done

I am wary of individuals who don’t factor luck into their success. I am glad that you were able to work full-time to finance your college education, but it is an act of great folly to fail to recognize that your hard work aligned with your circumstances and for many others... they don’t.

For every person who works hard and makes it, there are many more who don’t.

We are all the beneficiaries of chance. Hard work doesn’t change that. Some people by nothing but circumstance alone have more doors open for them, and some don’t. Therefore, the output of one’s hard work varies within the circumstances one is working in.

 

[deleted480308]

“Don’t take time off to study or do extracurriculars even though that’s what you’re busting your ass to pay for college for”

Makes sense! If nothing else, I’m glad that my college education actually taught me how to broaden my perspective past my own narrow set of experiences.

You think “extracurriculars” is why someone should bust their tail to pay for school?

 

[deleted480308]

Yup. Extracurricular involvement is essential for med school admissions. For my gap year interview at a consulting company, I was asked extensively about my leadership experiences and involvement on campus. Most competitive careers don’t want academic drones, they want well-rounded students with demonstrated passions. So yes.

if your passion is being able to eat and afford the tuition, then sometimes there isn't room in the schedule for intramural frisbee golf.

Again, send your broke friends my way if they need help figuring it out, and are willing consider school without the side clubs

 

[TJinDaHouse]

One of the best things about my school is my extracurriculars.

 

[Nurse2MD2018]

I was wondering how this would play out with the new NYU superstars in regards to leveraging other schools to match scholarship offers.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I was wondering how this would play out with the new NYU superstars in regards to leveraging other schools to match scholarship offers.

They can get scholarships for themselves, but for people that aren't significant others? No, unless they're extremely connected or the best superstar in the history of medical school applicants, probably ain't gonna fly.

 

[Nurse2MD2018]

They can get scholarships for themselves, but for people that aren't significant others? No, unless they're extremely connected or the best superstar in the history of medical school applicants, probably ain't gonna fly.

Just realized that I wasn’t too clear in my original comment. I’m more so referring to how this changes the playing field for these students. Not referring to the OP statement about trying to get others scholarship/admission offers.

 

[TJinDaHouse]

College education needs to just be free it’s just that simple.

 

[Stagg737]

To pull this off you'd have to be the biggest superstar in the history of medical school admissions; if you had a 4.0, a 525, and a Nobel Peace Prize, you might have a shot at pulling this off. It might or might not also be possible with an eight-figure donation. Other than that? Tough luck.

Not true. I had a classmate who got their SO accepted to our school off the waitlist and he was a solid applicant but not a superstar. Basically told the school he had 2 acceptances, one at our school and one at a school in his hometown (that his gf had been rejected from). Said if gf wasn't accepted he would be attending med school in hometown. Gf got her acceptance a few days later. Ironic part was they broke up by the end of first year, but she still got her acceptance thanks to him.

Yup. Extracurricular involvement is essential for med school admissions. For my gap year interview at a consulting company, I was asked extensively about my leadership experiences and involvement on campus. Even outside medicine, competitive careers don’t want academic drones- they want well-rounded students with demonstrated passions. So yes.

Work is considered an extra-curricular. If you have to sacrifice other ECs in order to work a job to pay for school, this is significantly considered by ADCOMs and often looked upon highly as it shows both work ethic and dedication to future goals. I'd argue that it's a far more effective EC than almost any other aside from possibly research and some volunteering opportunities.

 

[Nurse2MD2018]

Not true. I had a classmate who got their SO accepted to our school off the waitlist and he was a solid applicant but not a superstar. Basically told the school he had 2 acceptances, one at our school and one at a school in his hometown (that his gf had been rejected from). Said if gf wasn't accepted he would be attending med school in hometown. Gf got her acceptance a few days later. Ironic part was they broke up by the end of first year, but she still got her acceptance thanks to him.



Work is considered an extra-curricular. If you have to sacrifice other ECs in order to work a job to pay for school, this is significantly considered by ADCOMs and often looked upon highly as it shows both work ethic and dedication to future goals. I'd argue that it's a far more effective EC than almost any other aside from possibly research and some volunteering opportunities.

Not sure if this always true. I worked several jobs during my undergrad years, some of which I was able to put in my activities section. Not once did I get asked about those experiences. The only work experience that was brought up was my current position. My ECS that were not work-related became my bread and butter throughout my interview trail.

 

[Stagg737]

Not sure if this always true. I worked several jobs during my undergrad years, some of which I was able to put in my activities section. Not once did I get asked about those experiences. The only work experience that was brought up was my current position. My ECS that were not work-related became my bread and butter throughout my interview trail.

I can only speak from personal experience. My jobs and a particular volunteering experience were what I was asked about and when I worked with my med school's admission team work experiences were emphasized. May vary from school to school, but it also likely depends on what the actual job was and definitely on how many other ECs are in the application.

 

[deleted962973]

Work is considered an extra-curricular. If you have to sacrifice other ECs in order to work a job to pay for school, this is significantly considered by ADCOMs and often looked upon highly as it shows both work ethic and dedication to future goals. I'd argue that it's a far more effective EC than almost any other aside from possibly research and some volunteering opportunities.

I mean, it would be nice to think that, but I’m not sure this is how it plays out in reality. Working full time and slacking on your schoolwork isn’t going to excuse a low MCAT or GPA in adcoms’ eyes. I just can’t imagine someone who is poor, has mediocre grades due to stress, exhaustion, and lack of resources, who works full time and therefore can devote less energy to other activities, is going to be viewed more favorably than the wealthy Ivy League research superstar who is president of the student body and has a 522 MCAT. Being wealthy enough to pursue these activities is not a privilege afforded to the financially underresourced. The SES makeup of medical students, which is a significantly richer pool of people than the average American population, seems to reflect that the cost of higher education hinders poorer people from pursuing it.

 

[Stagg737]

I mean, it would be nice to think that, but I’m not sure this is how it plays out in reality. Working full time and slacking on your schoolwork isn’t going to excuse a low MCAT or GPA in adcoms’ eyes. I just can’t imagine someone who is poor, has mediocre grades due to stress, exhaustion, and lack of resources, who works full time and therefore can devote less energy to other activities, is going to be viewed more favorably than the wealthy Ivy League research superstar who is president of the student body and has a 522 MCAT. Being wealthy enough to pursue these activities is not a privilege afforded to the financially underresourced. The SES makeup of medical students, which is a significantly richer pool of people than the average American population, seems to reflect that the cost of higher education hinders poorer people from pursuing it.

I never said anything about MCAT or GPA. If those are crap you're screwed either way. I'm saying that if someone has to work instead of doing ECs to keep afloat (while maintaining their GPA) then it would not be looked down upon, especially if they wrote about it in their applications that they required a job to pay for school. We never did when I worked with admissions and I don't think most other places would either.

 

[deleted480308]

College education needs to just be free it’s just that simple.

nope, there is far to much uselessness in college for it to be paid for by the rest of society. IF you want it, you should buy it

 

[TJinDaHouse]

Bet. Must be nice being rich and being able to have a perfect application and not havin to work some job that nobody care about, all to get by, for like 8 dollars while they got they folks paying for them so they can go work for free doing cool ass stuff while not stressing over work.

 

[MadMax2018]

That's life. Not everyone is guaranteed to succeed in all areas of their life. Not everyone is guaranteed an easy road. It's just reality. This hardly seems like the forum to cry woe me.

 

[TJinDaHouse]

Well we should cut the uselessness and make it the bare essentials so everybody can get a good education and advance as a society. Just math, reading, science, ethics, sociology, black studies, and other basic things.

 

[deleted480308]

Well we should cut the uselessness and make it the bare essentials so everybody can get a good education and advance as a society. Just math, reading, science, ethics, sociology, black studies, and other basic things.

Dude, i love a good trolling but you need more subtlety for it to work

 

[atomi]

n=1, but when I was in med school, my s.o. was in college at the same university (public). Her parents did not give her any money for school, but they made enough money (~$130k) that FAFSA calculated a decent parental payment. She had to drop out of school once and work at McDonald's to try and save up enough money. Paying like $100 rent to live on someone's couch and desperately try to make ends meet.

She ultimately had to drop out again and worked minimum wage for 2-3 years before going to a CC and transferring to a cheaper 4 year school all while working minimum wage.

The bottom line is that she was literally unable to afford the first (public) school even with maximum loans offered to her by the school. She could not come up with enough dollars to transfer to the school in order to stay enrolled through loans and part time jobs.

Be careful with the blanket statements.