Increase in Path interest

[GreatPumpkin]

I can't say if this is how it is everywhere but my program has about a 40% increase in US grad applications this year. And, it is my bet that we are not alone. Anyone out there seeing a change besides me?

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[Winged Scapula]

A friend of mine who is applying for Path this year (I think you may have had some communiques with her earlier this year) has been told that at some other programs, especially the California residencies.

I figured it was those great hours in Path that was drawing the candidates (ie, call q7) but now with the 80 hour workweek upon surgical residencies, I'm not so sure!

 

[Ludy]

That's not the news I wanted to hear! I'm applying for path next year and I was really hoping the new ACGME rules would cause fewer people to go into path for lifestyle reasons and make it even less competitive. The last time I spoke with the PD at my school, he only knew of one fourth-year (out of 170) applying in path, which is consistent with previous years. We generally have 1-3 people match in path per year, sometimes no one.

So what does a 40% increase mean? Is path nearing the level of competitiveness of internal medicine now, with the big-name programs only accepting your stellar, AOA, 250+ candidates with multiple publications? Or are the applicants still pretty much in the driver's seat during the whole match process?

 

[Mindy]

As I mentioned in another post, the AAMC reported that there is a 50% increase in applicants through ERAS this year (as of now.) This translates roughly into ~300 probably USG 4th year medical student applicants this year so far. This does not count people who do not have to use ERAS such as FMGs and those not in medical school. I am not sure if this figure includes DOs or not. (Also note that NEXT YEAR, all positions are through ERAS including FMGs and post-grads.)

Overall there are less than 400 path residency positions.

Bottom line is another year like this one will mean that pathology becomes as competitive as optho, ortho, and derm.

Ludy, you are super competitive though. I wouldn't sweat it.

Mindy

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Hi Kimberly, long time since I said hi. Hope you are hanging in there.

Yeah, with all that free time you will have only working 80 hours a week what will you do with yourself. Hehe. The surgery department here is about having a tough time figuring out how they are going to do it, I feel sorry for the interns this year. So far it seems there plan is just make the interns to do twice the work with 30 hours less.

Ludy,
Hehe don't freak out even with the increase in interest path is no AOA only field. At top schools it has always been somewhat competitive, Cali schools especially for some crazy reason. You just may have to go down to number 2 or 3 on your rank list instead of number 1.

 

[lemonpeel]

As long as we're talking about Path competitiveness, I have a question for the wise Great Pumpkin and others-how helpful is research experience when applying for Path Residencies? I am concerned because I expect Path will be my strong preference for residency, and if I'm unable to get into a good Path residency I may consider other options such as research, industry, etc. Also I will be somewhat limited as to my program choices as my wife will be matching the year before me, and so I will be trying to match to a specific city (not sure which yet).

Grades: For various reasons my MS 1 grades were not good-a B average. Currently I am a MS 2 and making A's so far; I expect to make mostly A's this year. I'm not sure how the clinical grades will be. Maybe assume I will be in the 'middle' of my med school class for the last three years (MS2-MS4). So grades are definitely a weakness. I am at a top-20 but not top-10 medical school. Pathology interest at my school is high-I expect several of my classmates will also be applying to Path if this matters.

Research: I'm an MD/PhD student with a total of 14 publications-10 are from before medical school and not biomedically oriented (I'm assuming these don't count for much), 1 publication from my first research rotation in the MD/PhD program, and 3 from my thesis lab. Two of these are first author papers in relatively high profile but non-clinical journals (Nature and Nature Genetics). I think this is my strongest area, but I'm not sure how helpful it will be.

Scores: I'm an MS2 (thesis between 1st and 2nd year medical school) so I haven't taken Step 1 yet; usually I score fairly well on standardized tests (MCAT=38, although my Step 1 scores may be weaker as much of the MS1 knowledge has faded over the last four years, I'm trying to review it). I expect I should do at least "average" on Step 1.

Any thoughts on how much the research will help? I plan to squeeze in a Path elective as soon as possible in my third year, and I will do away rotations at my preferred Path programs if possible during 4th year. Any other suggestions?

Thanks for the input. Sorry for the long post/thread hijack, but I wanted to be as specific as possible.

 

[blueintheface]

A first-author publication in Nature would make you extremely competitive at any program in the country, assuming its in biosciences and not plate tectonics. Even if it was plate tectonics you'd probably still have your first choice. I am very jealous. But seriously, don't worry too much about your MS1 grades if research is going to be your focus. Just continue to improve your MS2 grades and make sure you don't get any blemishes during your third year rotations. And do well on step 1 which I am sure you will if you are getting A's in second year.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Hehe lemon,

You will be able to go pretty much anywhere you want. Unless you wrote all those papers while in prison or something . But, just remember even the less well known schools put out great pathologists. More important when picking a school is finding out if you will be happy within the program. And, that usually has little to do with the prestige of the program.

 

[Ludy]

Hey, GP, speaking of picking a program, do you happen to know anything about UVA? They seem to have an emphasis on renal path, which is something I'm interested in, and I like smaller towns. Of course, I know you love it at MCV and I'll be looking into that one next year too, on your recommendation

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Ludy,
UVA has a very good program. Some very well known folks teach there. Charlottesville is a beautiful town.

I interviewed there and I left feeling a little uncertain as to how much teaching they really recieved and if the residents were really happy. But, take my word with a grain of salt it was two years ago and I hate UVA because I am a Virginia Tech fan. Big rivalry.

 

[fellow]

While I do believe the sheer numbers for path applicants may have increased, path is still nowhere as competitive as other fields. Just judging from how easy it is for non stellar (non AOA, average Step scores, no research) applicants to get interviews at big name programs I don't think the feild is ultra competitive now. However, all residency programs go in cycles and path is definately due for an upswing b/c its been down so long. Hopefully, people going into it are not just after the lifestyle b/c path can be pretty challenging/demanding depending on where you go. I don't think you can assess a trend just yet though--it is still early, and this year maybe an aberration. Its tough, but the only thing to do is wait and see...

 

[Voxel]

Here they are....drum roll please.

For Path Applicants as of Oct. 10, 2002.

Info. Dated. Nov. 6th 2002:

2002 US Applicants: 201
2003 US Applicants: 301
Average # of applications/applicant: 13 (constant 2002-2003)

About 50% increase from last year.

2002 IMG Applicants: 482
2003 IMG Applicants: 471
Average # of applications/applicant: 19 (constant 2002-2003)

This leads one to conclude while the level of interest among US applicants has increased dramatically, the perceived competitiveness of the specialty remained constant (on average at least) this year as per the # applicantions/applicant.

One more thing. There are ~500 more registered US applicants in the 2003 match than the 2002 match. And also more than ~1100 US applicants who applied to at least 1 program by October 10th 2002 as compared to Oct 10th 2001.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Percieved competitiveness aside, more folks going to be going farther down thier match list this year for sure. But, basically a US grad will still match somewhere. Thanks for the numbers Vox.

 

[2003doc]

To The Great Pumpkin-

I like the perspective you give to these forums; fun, informative...

I'm a 4th year student with some questions about pathology; is it cool if I PM you? BTW, I have spent some time at MCV; I was VERY happy; lots of smart, cool, decent, fun people; I had a great experience there and in RIchmond.

I know you are busy, but if you have the time, I'll send you a message.

Thanks.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Sure PM or email me. I usually check this site and my email every night after work.

Glad you like MCV, it is really a great place. Great CP and AP program. I would say our only light areas at the moment are autopsy and peds path. But, that is being rectified. And, the cost of living in Richmond is awesome.