Indian and Pakistani medical schools

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Sadeeq_19

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If anybody knows anything about Medical schools in Pakistan and Inida, please give me all the information that you have. Which ones are good? the cost?
Also when do the semesters begin if they use the two semester system. Do they have like fall/spring/summer sessions or do they use the quarterly system. Any information is appreciated, specially about the quality of the education and clinical rotations. thanks.
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Hello... Its my first post on this website. But I may be able to help you a little bit. I was just accepted into Allama Iqbal Medical College in Lahore. Not my first choice, but at least I got in. In Pakistani public medical colleges the first requirement is being of Pakistani descent. Meaning your parents must have been born in Pakistan. Other races cannot apply. You must have a minimum of 60% adjusted marks. Which by American standards is an A level gpa. Regardless of what you may hear about the schools... all of the schools in Pakistan are great schools. The quality of education is top notch. Pricing for schools (for foreign students) depends on the province your school is in. NWFP schools (khyber and ayub med schools) cost 5000 dollars a year. Punjab schools (king edward, nishtar....allama iqbal) cost 10,000 dollars per year. Baluchistan schools cost 4000 dollars a year I believe. Sindh schools cost 6000 dollars a year. The schools DO have a summer/fall/spring session, but tests are yearly cumulative. Meaning, you don't generally have tests after every session. The information above, is only for Pakistani Gov't Public Schools. Private schools such as Aga Khan and Baqai are exemplary schools, with very high standards, and very high tuition costs. Other private schools (I can't think of any names off the top of my head) are just after your money, and don't offer any sort of education. If you plan on practicing in America, the USMLE is offered in certain places. They even have courses which prepare you for hte USMLE, and have about a 90% passing rate. If you have any other questions, go ahead and ask.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I kind of knew that the medical schools in Pakistan and India were good because there are so many doctors from those countries that practice in the U.S.
My original question was when does the school year begin? Also what kind of facilities are available in the medical schools in Pakistan? How competitive would you say these schools compared to western medical schools. I talked with a graduate from KEMC on this forum. He told that Dow, KEMC, and Rwalpindi med schools are the best in Pakistan, is that true. He also said that education at Baqai was debatable.

The last question. How well do high schools in Pakistan prepare the students for medical since they go straight to medical school? In the U.S and Canada, students must have a 4-year bachelor's degree before they can apply to medical school.
 
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The school year starts at different times for different schools. Although schools generally start around december/january. I believe Khyber Med School is already in session (started late November), But Allama Iqbal (my school) is starting the 2nd week of January. I've heard that KEMC starts in October, but i'm not 100% sure about that. And I have no idea about the private schools starting schedule. The high school system in Pakistan ends in 10th grade. Then the students go to a 2 year junior college type thing. During these two years, the students prepare for whatever Major they wish for. You need an F.sc (faculty of science) to apply to Medical schools. But, after the two years of their Faculty, they're still just slightly ahead of people educated in American high schools. But, you should have taken AP/HP courses in High School. I actually graduated high school, went to college for 2 years... then decided that engineering wasn't for me. When I applied to Pakistan, they didn't even look at my college transcripts. It is VERY VERY difficult to get into a medical school in Pakistan. There are 75 total seats in ALL of Pakistan, I think 6 of those seats are for Fatima Jinnah Medical School (which is all girls)... so you only have 69 seats to compete for. This year, I talked to the Ministry of Education, and they told me that people had applied from Norway, The Netherlands, Austria, Australia, Germany, England.... and many other countries as well. So thousands of people are applying for 75 seats. VERY competitive. So if you don't have a 4.0 GPA its not really worth your hassle. I had a 4.1 or 4.2 and it converted to 67% in Pakistan. I was near the bottom of the merit list. In Pakistan, you don't directly apply to one medical school. You apply to the Ministry of Finance (after all, they are after your money!), they send the applications to the IBCC (interboard chairman committee...or somethign of that nature), they convert your American grades to Pakistani grades. Then they send your converted grades to the Ministry of Education, and they put out the merit list. You get the application from the Embassy in Washington DC. The Los Angeles embassy doesn't have the applications. On one of the pages, it asks for your preferences of schools. It gives you 8 choices, I believe. So, after the merit list has been made. The person with the highest marks, gets first choice. Then the second person get's next choice. And so on and so forth. Thousands of people are rejected each year... Once again, I must state... ALL of the schools in Pakistan (the gov't schools) are very good. People have this sense of Alma Matter, and provincial superiority. Meaning, if you talk to somebody from NWFP (i'm from NWFP by the way) they're going to say that Khyber and Ayub are the best schools. The same way that a person from Punjab says that King Edward is the best school. My allergist is from Nishtar Medical College (in Multan... i HATE that city:) ), and he claims that its the best college in Pakistan. I'm speaking with all honesty when I say that all of the schools in Pakistan are very very good. The only factor you must consider is your adjustment from American society to Pakistani society. Lahore is probably the best bet for you. Its the most modern city, as well as the most peaceful. I can't speak for Indian medical schools (i have no knowledge on them whatsoever)). The medical schools have teaching hospitals attached to them. You have most of the equipment that Western hospitals have...except maybe the most modern and expensive equipment. So you will learn ALOT. You'll be just as good as any American doctor..... Baqai is definitely one of the best private schools in Pakistan. Only 2nd to Aga Khan. I mean, be wary of the schools which advertise in the newspaper! hah... I think there is a school called Frontier Medical School (or something like that), they advertise in the Pakistan Link. They have no educational standards, I dont even think they're accredited by the WHO. They simply want your money! Also, there is migration allowed between schools (unless you're under self-finance foreign student). So if you get accepted to ANY medical school, just be happy that you got in. And maybe once you get to Pakistan, change your status (it is pakistan after all... you can easily get a birth certificate from there), and try to migrate to another school, if you wish to do so. But, you still have to find somebody willing to switch seats with you. Sometimes you even have to pay them. I know of a guy who was in some lesser known medical college and he migrated to KEMC, he had to pay the guy who was switching seats with him, 10,000 dollars! But hey, I guess thats the price you have to pay.
 
Sorry about the long post... there's alot to say!
 
Wow, that really helped. Thanks alot ! :clap:

My american g.p.a is 3.4 or something like that . The reason i'm considering Pakistani or Indian medical schools is because i don't believe i have even the slightest chance of getting into an american or canadian medical school. My first year of college was a disaster gradewise, due personal problems and college related shock. :confused: Anyway, after that i tranferred to another university, dropped out after one semester because i had other loans i had to pay back (car loan, dental, and tuition from the first college). I didn't want to pay any Ribba (interest) so i must pay now. On top of all that, medical education in the u.s takes too damn long. So, anyway that's my sitution. I haven't really decided what the hell i'm gonna yet but hopefully soon i will think of something.

So, how modern is Lahore and how is it similar to western countries? Also what schools besides KEMC are in Lahore?
 
Hey there. 3.4 GPA? High School or College GPA? Did you have any AP courses? If so, which ones, and what were your grades in them? I'm not sure if they'll consider your college grades. When I applied this past October, I had already had 2 years of college behind me... They didn't even look at my college transcript. One of our family friends had actually completed his BS in America, then decided on becoming a doctor. I'm not sure whether they looked at his college scores. The misconception that most American people have, is that getting into Pakistani medical schools is very easy. I can't say for sure that 3.4 is good enough. It depends on the content of the courses (science courses). They only base the relation GPA on your science courses, not on overall GPA. I had an overall 4.1 GPA, while this other girl had an overall 4.3 GPA. When our grades were converted, I ended up having 67% marks, while she had 63% marks. You should still try to apply to school in Pakistan. I know of a family here who is trying to send their daughter to Pakistan. She had a 3.5 GPA, with no AP courses. I highly doubt that she'll get in... but I'll keep you informed...there may be hope for you yet. One thing to remember is that Pakistan still is a Military Government. Connections go A LONG way. Lahore is a relatively modern city. It is Pakistan after all. Its still alot more traditional than some other countries, such as UAE or Malaysia. There are TGI Fridays, and other bars, there are some clubs (call em discos in pakistan). The TGI Friday's have full bars! You have to prove that you are not a muslim if you want to drink alcohol. There are 3 public medical schools in Lahore. KEMC, Fatima Jinnah (all girls school), and Allama Iqbal (my school). Depending on where you are from, I would definitely recommend against going to school in NWFP (ayub and khyber). Those are still very traditional backwards places. If you're not from NWFP, don't go there. Its very dangerous. Don't fret too much about what you're gonna do with your life.... you still have time. Its just sad that so many people believe its so easy to get into Med School in Pakistan. Its a huge misconception. Honestly... I believed it was going to be pretty easy to get in also. The whole process takes about 1 year. Meaning, you'd start your process in say October 2003, you wouldn't be able to get into school till October 2004. I was very lucky, like I said, connections work alot in Pakistan, and we were able to get the whole process done in 9 days!
 
Also... medical school takes 5 years in Pakistan.
 
I haven't taken any science AP courses..i took ap english.. and i have no connection in Pakistan or India.. :mad: But i haven't made any decisions yet. But i have till sumer of 2003 to decide what i'm going to do. Right i'm gonna focus on paying my loans and having fun until schools starts again on fall 2003.

I really have no desires to go bars or anything. I never walked past a bar and never will. I have met people from NWFP here in he u.s and they seemed just fine. Actually, i prefer being around them than mingling with the rich and spoiled of Islamabad and Lahore. I'm a from tradition muslim country myself so i don't think i'd have a problem with the pashtuns and other people of NWFP. I actually i have more respect for keeping their culture alive than to pretending something their will never be. Although i don't agree with everything they say.

What have you heard of Quid e Azzam med school.? I have a friend who told me that although Nishtar is good school, Multan is one of the hottest cities in Pakistan. Though i highly doubt it gets hotter than the weather of midwest ( where i live now) in July and August
 
Its gonna be very hard for you to get admission into school there. I checked, and they don't care for your college grades at all. Everything is based on your high school grades. I'm not trying to discourage you from trying, but it'll be tough. You said that you're from a traditional country? I thought you were Pakistani? If you aren't of Pakistani descent, you aren't eligible to apply to school there. Have you ever been to Pakistan? Trust me, stay away from NWFP. They're traditional to the point of stupidity. (I'm pathan, so I can say that! :)) But weather-wise NWFP has the best weather in Pakistan. From deserts in the south, to glaciers (Himalayas) in the north. You'll definitely be much better off sticking with the rich and spoiled Lahori and Islamabad people. When you go there... you gotta keep a low profile. Don't let anybody know that you're from America. Quaid-E-Azam is a great school... as are all of the schools in Pakistan. Nishtar is a great school, but as you saw in an earlier post... I hate Multan because of the weather. I know the mid-west gets hot... but trust me, Multan is deadly hot. Very hot, very humid, no wind whatsoever, little rain. I wouldn't even go there to visit. The weather consistently reaches above 120 F during summer. It makes me sweat even as i'm typing this! I'm from California by the way.
 
Come on, sometimes your own people can be a bit embarrasing sepcially when they are dealing with someone from another culture. Belief me i know that more than anybody else. But i know some people from my country who lived in Peshawar and they loved it. I met them in the u.s and i haven't seen them compaining. What do you think is wrong with them? No i have never been to Pakistan but i always wanted to visit afeter i saw the beauty of the land, specially Kashmir. And if i were to go there i'd apply as a foreigner.
Hey, one poster from KEMC once told that forigners, specially americans, had the highest drop out rates in pakistan because American high schools did not prepare them enough. Is this true? Also how is the salary of Pakistani doctors. I heard it's not good so that's why they come to the u.s and uk. I always thought they came here to get more education, but when i found how good the education is in Pakistani then i figured it must be the $$.
 
I love my people... but they are so stupid! They look for reasons to fight you. My dad told me a story about how once there were 2 white people walking through the city...my dad saw a huge crowd, so he went to go see what was happening.... a crowd had gathered around the white people (who were minding their business...it was a husband and wife), and they were throwing rocks at the white people. The white people had done nothing, they were just visiting Pakistan, to see what it was like. My friend was attacked because he was speaking English over there. He was attacked by an older guy..in his like 40s. About the drop out rate... its definitely true. America has the easiest educational standards in the world. We're handfed everything. We've never really had to study the way other countries have to. Its hard, but its not impossible. It has nothing to do with the level of preparation. It has to do with the level of dedication. Like I said before, Pakistan is a military government. Salaries for non-military people is very low. If you want to be rich in Pakistan... you have to be in the Army. Its not fair, but its the way it is over there.
 
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Believe me i know what you mean. I spent my first 14 years of my life in a military ruled government. Although, i didn't what was going on, i remember how my parents (both professor and teacher) felt.
I remember you saying that don't let anybody know you are from America, why??? Is that everywhere in the country or just NWFP? How will you deal with it, you probably speak Urdu?
Also what did u do to prepare for the hard Pakistani medical curriculum? What courses did u take before you went there?
 
Don't let anybody know that you're from America anywhere in Pakistan. People get jealous, and try to take advantage of you. The best thing to do is tell them that you're from somewhere else in Pakistan, and Urdu isn't your first language...thats why you have a weird accent. Yah, I do speak Urdu. But everybody in the Med School knows English, everything is taught in English. I didn't do much to prepare for the Pakistani curriculum. I was undecided about whether I wanted to be an engineer or a doctor. The majority of my classes were towards an engineering field. I took all the math and physics classes. But, I also took 2 semesters of general chemistry, and 1 semester of Organic chemistry. I also took one semester of Biology. I'm still worried that I'm not up to par with medical students in Pakistan. But, I'll have to make due. Two of my friends have gone from here to Pakistan, straight from high school... so I figure I'm at a bit of an advantage by going to college two years, and learning more chemistry and biology than them. So we'll see... it's either finishing med school or suicide :) hehe...
 
Hey Sadeeq. which country are you from specifically? i have some friends who have gone to med school in the middle east and india so i know about some of the schools there.
 
Dapalaya,

I'm originally from Somalia but have been living in the U.S for the past 6 years. I went to high school here and 1 1/2 years of college. What schools are good in the middle east? I have seen many doctors in the U.S from Damascus Univ. in Syria and also many from Iran.
 
Sadeeq, I know some that went to Egypt, obtained US licensure and just started practicing here. They liked their experiences in Egypt so u maywant to check that out. Some med schools there teach in Arabic and others in English. There are med schools u can go to in India as well. The regular med schools are very competitive as the other poster mentioned about Pakistan and I believe the only accept those of Indian descent and possible a very limited number of foreigners. However, there are a few "donation" schools, which aren't very competitive admission wise, but neverthless still give excellent training. 2 that i know of are in Manipal and Ludhiana. The names may be the same as those of the cities. Hope this helps
 
Daplaya,

Thanks for the info. Do you which medical schools in Egypt are taught in English and which ones are taught in Arabic? What's the quality of the medical education in Egypt? Did your friends pass the USMLE once they came back to the u.s? Thanks.
 
The quality of Egyptian schools are good. The qualityof education throught Asia and the middle east is very good in general, even better than US in some cases for whatever reason. I don't know which are taught in arabic and which in english....i don't think u should have a hard time finding that out. I think the biggest thing is getting over the cultural shock after growing up in America your whole life. but since u lived in 3rd world country yourself for many years, u may not have tto make that much of an adjustment.
 
Sadeeq... so you're Somalian or Pakistani? Like, are you Pakistani by ethnicity, but you were born in Somalia?
 
DAplaya,

thanks. I have few egyptians friends here in the u.s but as you know it's hard to see people around when u work fulltime and go to school full time. Anway, is there like a website that i can find that explains which univs. in egypt are taught in English. Arabic was my second language when i was little, i even went to an arabic school, but i can only understand about 30% now.

Trdc3lica,

I'm somali born in Somalia. Although, i have seen Pakistanis who were born and lived in Somalia..lol..but that was before Somalia turned into another Afghanistan. They are probably back in Pakistan now.
 
Oh okay... I was kinda wondering what you were! So yah, Pakistan is out of the question for you then. Since you're not Pakistani. I'm not sure how India works.
 
Sadeeq, I'm not sure which website would list that info. However, I'll check with my friends and if I find out, I will post it here for you.

On a side note, what is the "race" of the Somali people? Are they similar to people from the Middle East or are they Black African? I'm just curious, as I have never met a Somali or anyone from eastern Africa for that matter.
 
TRDC3lica

No, there are many somalis in Pakistan who went or going to medical schools there. I'm sure you only know how to get into Pakistani med schools as an american born pakistani. But believe there are other ways. Everyear all public schools reserve seats for different catogories.

Daplaya,

lol..That's a good question. I have always wondered where the hell Somali people came from. However the most popular answer seems to be that Arabs migrants from Yemen settled there and mingled with africans who were living there. There are still pure arabs ( most of them mixed tho) living in the coastal area. There are also a trive that is called a bantu (like tribes from west africa) but they are about 5%. Anway, there are somalis who look like arabs, some africans, some mix. For example, if u saw you'd swear i'm from India. I have grandmother from Yemen, my tribe trace their origin back to the arabian peninsula..but i consider myself african. ....really confusing i know..i'm somali and i'm confused.
 
No, there are many somalis in Pakistan who went or going to medical schools there. I'm sure you only know how to get into Pakistani med schools as an american born pakistani. But believe there are other ways. Everyear all public schools reserve seats for different catogories.
Click to expand...

Perhaps there are other ways. But in the Admission packet, they actually state "must be of Pakistani descent". Your application requires you to include a copy of one of your parents national ID's from Pakistan. But there may be other ways around it.
 
My story is the other way around. I came to the USA specifically because the future out of Pakistani medical schools (for the most part, save AKMC) seemed bleak at best. Now if you dont want to practice outside Pakistan, I can understand going to a school there. But if you intend to come back, I want to hear you out. I can venture guesses as to why someone would leave the USA to study in Pak. and come back, but I dont want to be flamed so soon ;). (By the way, i have colleagues at AIMC, Bahawalpur, KE and the lots, so I have a fair knowledge of the pakistani system)
 
I had two reasons for going to Pakistan. First... the education is ALOT cheaper. I won't leave with any debt. And second, I've always wanted to live there for a while. I figured that by going to school in Pakistan, I could learn more. I was even considering doing my engineering BS from there. I know of several people who have gone to Pakistan from here, and came back, and matched into some competitive residencies.

And Sadeeq... I checked on the foreign student thing...turns out that they have 1 or 2 seats for non-pakistani foreign students. Buts 1-2 seats for the whole country... might be pretty competitive.
 
Sadeeq_19

r u 19yrs old, if so why u don't go back to college and kick some @ss then apply to US medical school. I have a lot of relatives graduate from Pakistani medical school, but they having hard time to come back here (for residency):rolleyes: .
I have 3.66GPA (B.S biology) but still have to take MCAT:mad:
If I don't get in I am going to Caribbean (they have pre-med& medical school combine in 6yrs, may be u should check out that)
Caribbean schools follow US medical school curriculum & provide clinical rotation in US ;)
 
i guess i'm late to reply for this perticular querry , but i see no response pertaining to an indian medical schoole here . i study in AIIMS , which is one of the best medical schoole in india . in india , the course starts in august in most schools . it is of a duration of 4.5 years and an additional 1 year of practical clinical training . the first 4. 5 years are divided into 4 proffessional sections ( of 1 , 1.5 1 and 1 years duration ) with basic sciences in the first two sections and clinical sciences in the last two . each section is followed by a major exam at the end and many smaller exams in between . well if this is too much information to swallow , here's the deal . i started in august 1998 and studied anatomy , biochemistry and physiology in my first year . then i too an exam in july 1999 and passed that to enter my second step . thats where i started going to my clinical rotations and also studied other basic sciences like pathology . in dec 2000 i took an exam in the basic sciences i studied for that year and went into the third segment which was only clinical subjects with an exam in dec 2001 and then i am taking my last exams now , ie dec 2002 . next year , i will go through a lot of clinical rotations , but i dont have to clear any exam for that . in dec 2003 , i will end my undergraduation course . only fifty students make a class of one year and around 40-50,000 apply for the course each year .

as for you , any forign graduate can apply to my school as per the following procedure :

Foreign candidates nominated by the Government of India are required to have obtained a minimum of FIFTY PERCENT (50%) marks in aggregate in the subjects of ENGLISH, PHYSICS, CHEMISTRY (Organic and Inorganic) and BIOLOGY (Botany and Zoology) in their Pre-Medical/Intermediate Science or an equivalent examination to be eligible for admission to the M.B.B.S. Course.


CATEGORIES OF FOREIGN CANDIDATES ENTITLED TO CENTRAL GOVERNMENT RESERVED SEATS FOR ADMISSION TO MBBS COURSE AT AIIMS AND THE AUTHORITIES CONCERNED

Category Authority to whom the Applications are to be sent.
1. Self Financing foreign candidate
Ministry of External Affairs, Student Cell, 527, Akber Bhavan, New Delhi- 110021.
2. Foreign Candidate under General
Cultural Scholarship Scheme Indian Council for Cultural Relations, Azad Bhavan, Indraprastha Estate, New Delhi- 110002.


The All India Institute of Medical Sciences and the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare neither entertain requests for supply of application forms for admission nor receive applications' directly for nomination of foreign students.



besides my school , there are many other schools in india , who take medical students from abroad , with fees in the vicinity of $70,000 ( usd ) for the five year duration . i dont really have information regarding the same . my school being a government institute , takes less than thousandth of that amount ( my yearly fees in $ 13 ) .

education in indian schools is good , but lacks the lavish resourses of the west . i mean , when my friends visit me from their schools , they are in awe of the projectors and computers and stuff we work on , so in most schools in india , you would really miss that element . otherwise isndia is a bloody good country to settle in . the people by large are nice , and since we are a nation that speaks over a thousand languages and has a million religions , we are tolerant by nature . as a result , there's no trouble by that account .

this link might help you about my school :
http://www.aiims.ac.in/ragu/aiims/academic/mbbs/mbbs2k.htm

pm me if you need any more help ,
gurdesh .
 
I guess i'm late on this reply too ! I study in a state called Karnataka in southern India. We have the most number of medical colleges in India (about 20). There are a LOT of foriegn students who come here to study. If it makes you comfortable, I've known people from Kenya and Sudan who have been in my college, (apart from Malaysians, egyptians, iranians, etc etc).

Foriegn students are welcome here. Infact, they have some seats reserved for them in colleges. There is no entrance examination, just a fee that can go up to $80,000 (for the entire course). It gets cheaper if you go to a college thats far off from main towns. Education is excellent in the top colleges and there is a lot of competition. Bangalore (the capital city) is a rapidly advancing city and you wont have a shortage of anything here. People are friendly. Despite what you read in the news about violence in India, the southern states are hardly affected. Bangalore is a multicultural extreme!

Admission can be gained by contacting the management of the respective institutes. They can guide you further. Drop me a msg if you want to know anything more.
 
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