Informal Postbacc vs 1 Year Masters

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WildEMDoc

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Hi, so I am nearing the end of my senior year and basically I have two paths to take next year, while I'm applying. Research programs are out since doing a year of research somewhere will increase interview costs (travel) and I don't want to move somewhere for a year just to move somewhere else again. Doing nothing is out, my parents won't let me do nothing, and since they are still paying most of my bills, I don't really have a choice.

My Stats:
cGPA 3.45 (upward trend from freshman year)
sGPA 3.4
MCAT: 29O 10PS/9VR/10BS

My choices are:

Informal Postbacc:

Pros:
-Take upper division biology I'm interested in (Cancer Bio, Neurobiology, Animal Phys, etc...)
-Very flexible around interviews
-Nearly free first semester (I have one scholarship from undergrad that will carry over for one semester)

Cons:
-Doesn't really add anything to my application/resume

1 Year Non-Thesis Masters in Biotechnology

Pros:
-It's another degree, adds something to my resume
-Still somewhat flexible around interviews

Cons:
-No Guaranteed TA position (aka I have to pay out of pocket ~$6000)
-Taking classes I have no interest in at all (Genomics, Business)
-16 hours+ Grad Classes a semester

I'm not really sure what would be a better choice.

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I just started a thread about this, I'm basically in the same boat except with a higher MCAT...from what people were saying, the post-bacc will actually improve your undergrad science GPA in the eyes of admissions committees (especially good for people like me who did terribly in their early science classes), so it does add to your application/CV but not your resume. The SMP generally seems to be for people with MCATs in the upper 20s and GPAs < 3.3

I thought the SMP would be better at first since it adds that degree, but most of those degrees (MS in Biological Science? What is that even good for?) won't open up many more job opportunities, and I'm not sure how much they value a Biotechnology degree. Cost is a huge issue, they're not cheap either...private ones will run in the $30k range for one year. It sounds like post-bacc has a lot more going for it in your case, but there are tons and tons of scattered posts with more info.
 
Hi, so I am nearing the end of my senior year and basically I have two paths to take next year, while I'm applying. Research programs are out since doing a year of research somewhere will increase interview costs (travel) and I don't want to move somewhere for a year just to move somewhere else again. Doing nothing is out, my parents won't let me do nothing, and since they are still paying most of my bills, I don't really have a choice.

My Stats:
cGPA 3.45 (upward trend from freshman year)
sGPA 3.4
MCAT: 29O 10PS/9VR/10BS

My choices are:

Informal Postbacc:

Pros:
-Take upper division biology I'm interested in (Cancer Bio, Neurobiology, Animal Phys, etc...)
-Very flexible around interviews
-Nearly free first semester (I have one scholarship from undergrad that will carry over for one semester)

Cons:
-Doesn't really add anything to my application/resume

1 Year Non-Thesis Masters in Biotechnology

Pros:
-It's another degree, adds something to my resume
-Still somewhat flexible around interviews

Cons:
-No Guaranteed TA position (aka I have to pay out of pocket ~$6000)
-Taking classes I have no interest in at all (Genomics, Business)
-16 hours+ Grad Classes a semester

I'm not really sure what would be a better choice.
Don't forget the biggest con for the masters: Most med schools won't rely on good grades in a masters to make up for lower grades in undergrad. Many grad programs are grade inflated, so unless it is something specific like a SMP, most med schools will weigh your undergrad grades much, much more strongly than your grad grades. This means a post-bac that boosts your GPA and adds good grades to your undergraduate record will probably be higher-yield than the masters.

The con you list for the post-bac is wrong, if your ultimate goal is to get into med school; it does add something very important to your application, it adds high grades in upper-level science courses to demonstrate your academic capabilities.
 
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Hi, so I am nearing the end of my senior year and basically I have two paths to take next year, while I'm applying. Research programs are out since doing a year of research somewhere will increase interview costs (travel) and I don't want to move somewhere for a year just to move somewhere else again. Doing nothing is out, my parents won't let me do nothing, and since they are still paying most of my bills, I don't really have a choice.

My Stats:
cGPA 3.45 (upward trend from freshman year)
sGPA 3.4
MCAT: 29O 10PS/9VR/10BS

My choices are:

Informal Postbacc:

Pros:
-Take upper division biology I'm interested in (Cancer Bio, Neurobiology, Animal Phys, etc...)
-Very flexible around interviews
-Nearly free first semester (I have one scholarship from undergrad that will carry over for one semester)

Cons:
-Doesn't really add anything to my application/resume

1 Year Non-Thesis Masters in Biotechnology

Pros:
-It's another degree, adds something to my resume
-Still somewhat flexible around interviews

Cons:
-No Guaranteed TA position (aka I have to pay out of pocket ~$6000)
-Taking classes I have no interest in at all (Genomics, Business)
-16 hours+ Grad Classes a semester

I'm not really sure what would be a better choice.

If you got the TA position, i'd go biotech. If not, than the informal.
 
I just started a thread about this, I'm basically in the same boat except with a higher MCAT...from what people were saying, the post-bacc will actually improve your undergrad science GPA in the eyes of admissions committees (especially good for people like me who did terribly in their early science classes), so it does add to your application/CV but not your resume. The SMP generally seems to be for people with MCATs in the upper 20s and GPAs < 3.3

I thought the SMP would be better at first since it adds that degree, but most of those degrees (MS in Biological Science? What is that even good for?) won't open up many more job opportunities, and I'm not sure how much they value a Biotechnology degree. Cost is a huge issue, they're not cheap either...private ones will run in the $30k range for one year. It sounds like post-bacc has a lot more going for it in your case, but there are tons and tons of scattered posts with more info.

SMPs are funnel programs for the medical school they are associated with (well the true SMPs are). They do give you more research opportunities (clinical at some = publication possibility) which help for residency and all future endeavors. And also, what do you do with almost any masters of science? Teach? get a dead-end job at a biotech company? They're all crap lol
 
If you got the TA position, i'd go biotech. If not, than the informal.

Yeah, I have talked to the program head and he said something along the lines of :

"Nobody in the biotech program has ever gotten a TA position before; but most of them have no teaching experience (I am a UGrad TA right now) and cannot pass the English competency needed. Overall your chances are pretty good, but all other Masters students (thesis masters) will take precedence".

TL;DR = Maybe

I thought the SMP would be better at first since it adds that degree, but most of those degrees (MS in Biological Science? What is that even good for?) won't open up many more job opportunities, and I'm not sure how much they value a Biotechnology degree.

The biotech program is a masters that focuses on the business of science. The science part focuses on genomics and genetic engineering. It is pretty far from a SMP.

The con you list for the post-bac is wrong, if your ultimate goal is to get into med school; it does add something very important to your application, it adds high grades in upper-level science courses to demonstrate your academic capabilities.

Yeah, but my GPA is unlikely to change very much, maybe break a 3.5, but even that is a stretch. After 130 credits, raising or lowering your GPA is very hard.
 
Yeah, I have talked to the program head and he said something along the lines of :

"Nobody in the biotech program has ever gotten a TA position before; but most of them have no teaching experience (I am a UGrad TA right now) and cannot pass the English competency needed. Overall your chances are pretty good, but all other Masters students (thesis masters) will take precedence".

TL;DR = Maybe



The biotech program is a masters that focuses on the business of science. The science part focuses on genomics and genetic engineering. It is pretty far from a SMP.



Yeah, but my GPA is unlikely to change very much, maybe break a 3.5, but even that is a stretch. After 130 credits, raising or lowering your GPA is very hard.

Your sGPA is easier to raise since it includes less credits. If I were you I would take a few upper level courses and retake MCAT with goal of 30+.
 
I think the informal post bac is the way to go. It would do more to bring up your undergrad gpa. I also don't think pursuing a masters is a good idea unless you actually have a level of interest.

I like the fact that you strongly considered doing nothing ;-) but your parents paying the bills is all that stopped you. We think very similarly.
 
Your sGPA is easier to raise since it includes less credits. If I were you I would take a few upper level courses and retake MCAT with goal of 30+.

I am disappointed I wasn't able to break 30, but I will not retake, ever. I am done with it, for me I am happy enough with my score for where I intend on applying.
 
May I ask why you're happy with your 29 for where you're applying? That screams DO/Caribbean to me, and if that's the case, I might not worry about raising my gpa too much. Please don't be offended if I guessed wrong; I just found that statement curious and wanted to know why.
 
May I ask why you're happy with your 29 for where you're applying? That screams DO/Caribbean to me, and if that's the case, I might not worry about raising my gpa too much. Please don't be offended if I guessed wrong; I just found that statement curious and wanted to know why.

My only instate MD school (UNM) has a very low MCAT average. With a 29 I am 3 points above it. I am .2 below (maybe .1 when I apply) the average GPA, so using LizzyM scores I am 1 (or 2) points above UNM's average.

I know its not a good idea to throw everything in one basket but they are my target school. The MCAT sucked the life out of me and my mind/body suffered while I was studying. Once I hit above their average I was satisfied with the score.

I am applying DO as well, which is another reason I'm not super concerned about the MCAT score I have, as with my GPA I should stand a pretty decent chance.

And AFAIK a 29 is hardly something that screams Caribbean, from what I have seen most average <25.
 
Gotcha. For the places you're applying, it sounds like you're in a pretty good spot. Good luck!
 
My only instate MD school (UNM) has a very low MCAT average. With a 29 I am 3 points above it. I am .2 below (maybe .1 when I apply) the average GPA, so using LizzyM scores I am 1 (or 2) points above UNM's average.

I know its not a good idea to throw everything in one basket but they are my target school. The MCAT sucked the life out of me and my mind/body suffered while I was studying. Once I hit above their average I was satisfied with the score.

I am applying DO as well, which is another reason I'm not super concerned about the MCAT score I have, as with my GPA I should stand a pretty decent chance.

And AFAIK a 29 is hardly something that screams Caribbean, from what I have seen most average <25.

The bolded part is true.

Anyway, it sounds like you've already answered your own question. Your pros and cons list indicates that there's no clear objective benefit to one route or the other, but you are more interested in one than the other. Go with what you'll enjoy-that typically leads to a better outcome.
 
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I just started a thread about this, I'm basically in the same boat except with a higher MCAT...from what people were saying, the post-bacc will actually improve your undergrad science GPA in the eyes of admissions committees (especially good for people like me who did terribly in their early science classes), so it does add to your application/CV but not your resume. The SMP generally seems to be for people with MCATs in the upper 20s and GPAs < 3.3

I thought the SMP would be better at first since it adds that degree, but most of those degrees (MS in Biological Science? What is that even good for?) won't open up many more job opportunities, and I'm not sure how much they value a Biotechnology degree. Cost is a huge issue, they're not cheap either...private ones will run in the $30k range for one year. It sounds like post-bacc has a lot more going for it in your case, but there are tons and tons of scattered posts with more info.
I think it depends on the SMP. Within our program, I think the MCAT scores range from the low thirties to the low forties with the majority of the scores in the upper and mid-thirties. SMPs are expensive, but since you take the exact same tests and courses as the med students, they really are the best way to show medical schools how well you can perform. You are able to do research, you will receive a degree, and SMP students historically do really well once they are admitted to med school.

OP, regardless of which path you pick, I would try to include a brief description of your academic plans for the upcoming year in your personal statement and what you expect to gain from them. I would also ask UNM if they accept grade updates post-interview. If they don't, and if you have an early interview that prevents you from discussing new grades, then your academic performance in these courses will probably not have any impact on your upcoming application; however, your grades will strengthen your application if you have to reapply after completing your post bacc/MS coursework. Good luck! :luck:
 
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Post-bacc. SMP are generally expensive and your GPA is near 3.5 ish.
 
...I am applying DO as well, which is another reason I'm not super concerned about the MCAT score I have, as with my GPA I should stand a pretty decent chance.

And AFAIK a 29 is hardly something that screams Caribbean, from what I have seen most average <25.

I think it's a good idea that you are applying to both DO and MD schools and I think that you probably do have a pretty good chance. If you want to stay near NM, Rocky Vista in Colorado is not that far away and I have heard good things about it from a friend. I think some DO schools require a letter of recommendation from a DO, so make sure you have shadowed both types of physicians. Also, a lot of med schools want you to continue volunteering while you are taking graduate level courses.
 
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I would hasard a suggestion, that you did not list in the title line of this post. A traditional masters, often these tuitions are only slightly higher than the cost of specially priced SMPs (you pay grad tuition for MS and a set rate for SMPS often. The MS is a strong credential for jobs even if you don not settle down on a med school in the future. A post-bacc is what I would do, if I was in your position.
 
I would hasard a suggestion, that you did not list in the title line of this post. A traditional masters, often these tuitions are only slightly higher than the cost of specially priced SMPs (you pay grad tuition for MS and a set rate for SMPS often. The MS is a strong credential for jobs even if you don not settle down on a med school in the future. A post-bacc is what I would do, if I was in your position.

Never thought about this option too much myself...on the one hand, it would take an extra year (plus all the work of a thesis, etc) and they aren't geared toward medical school applicants the same way SMPs are. But you're right, a degree from a full Masters program would give you more options professionally since there are far more degrees than just the generic "Medical Science" ones offered through SMPs. I personally can't get over the thought of putting a whole 'nother year between me and med school though.
 
What exactly is an informal postbac versus a formal postbac. I'm getting that an informal one is basically just delaying your graduation and taking more classes--but could you still do that even though you've finished all your major/minor requirements?
 
What exactly is an informal postbac versus a formal postbac. I'm getting that an informal one is basically just delaying your graduation and taking more classes--but could you still do that even though you've finished all your major/minor requirements?
Actually, delaying graduation is different from a postbac. A post bac is by definition courses taken after you graduate. Whether you can delay graduation after completing your requirements depends on the policies of your school, and you would need to check with them.

Formal post bacs are programs some schools have that allow you to either take the pre-reqs if you didn't take them when earning your degree, or take other upper-level classes to boost your GPA if you need GPA repair. These are structured programs that are officially offered by the university.

An informal post bac would be registering for and taking courses on your own, without being part of any official university-offered post bac program. This can be done as a non-degree-seeking student, or as a second-degree-seeking student.
 
I see and would that mean taking classes at community colleges and such? Those would count as part of your university GPA?
 
I see and would that mean taking classes at community colleges and such? Those would count as part of your university GPA?

Generally post-bacs are done at a university. My informal will be as well. This is because I would be hard pressed to find upper division biology at a CC.

Generally the highest level of biology a CC will offer is A&P and Pathophysiology for nurses, but even those are generally intro level. Universities will give you a broader scope of upper level biology (Neuro, Endocrinology, Developmental Bio, etc....)
 
Generally post-bacs are done at a university. My informal will be as well. This is because I would be hard pressed to find upper division biology at a CC.

Generally the highest level of biology a CC will offer is A&P and Pathophysiology for nurses, but even those are generally intro level. Universities will give you a broader scope of upper level biology (Neuro, Endocrinology, Developmental Bio, etc....)
In addition to this, some schools don't like CC work and I would bet almost all of them would look at community college classes as being less rigorous. Therefore, getting A's in CC courses would be viewed less favorably than getting A's in university classes. Especially if you are trying to repair grades, or don't have any real science background, relying on CC classes for your pre-reqs is not going to get you as far as going to a university for them would.
 
May I ask why you're happy with your 29 for where you're applying? That screams DO/Caribbean to me, and if that's the case, I might not worry about raising my gpa too much. Please don't be offended if I guessed wrong; I just found that statement curious and wanted to know why.

Worst statement ever :thumbdown:

My only instate MD school (UNM) has a very low MCAT average. With a 29 I am 3 points above it. I am .2 below (maybe .1 when I apply) the average GPA, so using LizzyM scores I am 1 (or 2) points above UNM's average.

I know its not a good idea to throw everything in one basket but they are my target school. The MCAT sucked the life out of me and my mind/body suffered while I was studying. Once I hit above their average I was satisfied with the score.

I am applying DO as well, which is another reason I'm not super concerned about the MCAT score I have, as with my GPA I should stand a pretty decent chance.

And AFAIK a 29 is hardly something that screams Caribbean, from what I have seen most average <25.

OP a 29 is a decent MCAT score, don't get riled up in the SDN hype. You need to work on your GPA though. If you could bring your GPAs a little bit higher you would be golden. Make sure to have extremely strong Extracurricular activities since they tend to balance the application. Also OP let me make it clear to you that your informal route sounds a lot better (that is assuming that you are delaying graduation!) It is very important for those credits to count towards your undergrad GPA. Medical schools care a lot more about your cumulative undergrad GPA than graduate courses since they assume grade inflation. I would take many upper level science classes in my university and really raise my GPA it will honestly strengthen your application the most as long as you get extensive clinical volunteering in the mean time. Also build a close relationship with your professors to get strong LORs!
 
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OP a 29 is a decent MCAT score, don't get riled up in the SDN hype. You need to work on your GPA though. If you could bring your GPAs a little bit higher you would be golden. Make sure to have extremely strong Extracurricular activities since they tend to balance the application. Also OP let me make it clear to you that your informal route sounds a lot better (that is assuming that you are delaying graduation!) It is very important for those credits to count towards your undergrad GPA. Medical schools care a lot more about your cumulative undergrad GPA than graduate courses since they assume grade inflation. I would take many upper level science classes in my university and really raise my GPA it will honestly strengthen your application the most as long as you get extensive clinical volunteering in the mean time. Also build a close relationship with your professors to get strong LORs!

Yeah I agree, if I could hit a 3.5 I would be really happy and a lot less nervous about the cycle. Even if I get a 4.0 this semester I end up with a 3.487 (yes I did the calculation :shrug: ) . But my sGPA may hit 3.5 if I get a 4.0.

Quick question, this is about how much clinical exp I have, I often feel like I need more, but I'm not sure, btw I tried hospital volunteering and I hated it, so if I was to get more it would probably be in a nursing home or through an EMT cert:

100hrs Sleep Lab Aid
80hrs Nursing home volunteering
60hrs FM Doc Shadowing (many would not count this, but I got more of what I feel is clinical experience from this than any other activity)
 
Generally post-bacs are done at a university. My informal will be as well. This is because I would be hard pressed to find upper division biology at a CC.

Generally the highest level of biology a CC will offer is A&P and Pathophysiology for nurses, but even those are generally intro level. Universities will give you a broader scope of upper level biology (Neuro, Endocrinology, Developmental Bio, etc....)

How is it possible to take classes at a university after graduation? Or are there generally post bac programs that allow you to just go and take as many classes as you wish?
 
3.5 and let say a 32 mcat and solid ECs, Cali Asian--should do a postbacc program? I really want to apply in June-do you think I could get in somewhere in the US?
 
Yeah I agree, if I could hit a 3.5 I would be really happy and a lot less nervous about the cycle. Even if I get a 4.0 this semester I end up with a 3.487 (yes I did the calculation :shrug: ) . But my sGPA may hit 3.5 if I get a 4.0.

Quick question, this is about how much clinical exp I have, I often feel like I need more, but I'm not sure, btw I tried hospital volunteering and I hated it, so if I was to get more it would probably be in a nursing home or through an EMT cert:

100hrs Sleep Lab Aid
80hrs Nursing home volunteering
60hrs FM Doc Shadowing (many would not count this, but I got more of what I feel is clinical experience from this than any other activity)

Working in health clinics with primary care physicians is the best source for clinical experience. Medical schools tend to like primary care settings because you get to see the gritty side of what it's like to be a clinician. Most low-mid tier medical schools that are not focused on research want to produce clinicians that's their goal. If you hate working in a hospital then as I suggested go to walk in clinics and ask physicians if they would be kind enough to allow you to volunteer. Volunteering could be working in the front desk, signing in patients, taking phone calls etc.. the most altruistic type of clinical volunteering in my honest opinion is volunteering in free clinics. No matter what city you are in you will always fine free clinics where physicians are devoting their lives and would love to get a hand. If you can really push the shadowing above > 150 hours and get as much volunteering as you can then you're good. Obviously you know clinical volunteering and shadowing are two totally different things. The clinical volunteering is different from community volunteering. Your 80 hours of non clinical volunteering are a good start but you really need to put in more. In the end your GPA and MCAT might not be the best ( they are almost enough) but volunteering can really give you a boost! trust me I've seen people with monster stats and average ECs get rejected to lower stats (wonderful ECs). Also I don't see any leadership quality; you can easily build leadership through tutoring or mentoring. Physicians are seen as leaders and it looks impressive if applicants have that kind of experience. You're very close to accomplishing your goal! :thumbup:

3.5 and let say a 32 mcat and solid ECs, Cali Asian--should do a postbacc program? I really want to apply in June-do you think I could get in somewhere in the US?

Please make another thread.
 
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How is it possible to take classes at a university after graduation? Or are there generally post bac programs that allow you to just go and take as many classes as you wish?

You don't need a program to take classes. Register as non-degree seeking, and give them their money for the classes.

The same goes for having a bachelors already, as long as you pay them, they don't care what classes you take.
 
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