Institutional Action...very serious, need advice

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CorkyBujec

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Hi guys...I have ~3.55 an have yet to take the MCAT. I plan on either a post bacc or SMP after college (wrapping up my junior year...18 credits and should end up with a 4.0). So last night I went to fill out the AMCAS and AOMCAS....

I am well aware about Institutional Actions and the need to report them. I have had two(neither are on my official transcript)...a minor one for a beer can in which I was not even drinking. (I am aware there are ~2million threads on this site concerning this, however none were as serious as mine......)

The second, well, as we may be aware colleges tend to be a kangaroo court when it comes to sexual misconduct. Total false BS accusation. I can go into detail if requested....but long story short she didn't want me suspended (and the school actually changed their handbook to be more fair to the accused...I kid you not)

I was suspended for a year, which was officially considered a LOA and I went to another school for a year and will return to the original school in the fall....but bottom line, if i report this on the AMCAS I can stick a fork in myself. If not, even if am fortunate to get accepted, it will be hanging over me that they'll find out. Any advice? Feel very bitter and screwed. Anything is appreciated, thanks. Absolutely anything would be great

Thank you very much guys
 
Were you charged with a crime? Charges dropped? Police involved?
 
No none whatsoever. It was handled entirely by the campus kangaroo court. It was also a private school if that makes any difference.

Also in general I've never had any run ins with the law of any kind.
 
My sympathies; you are indeed stuck between a rock and a hard place. I suspect that there are official records of this, and Deans that might divulge them. I suggest legal counsel's advice. You need to find out what exactly your school would divulge to an Admission's dean. You also can't take the risk of a LOR writer outing you inadvertently (which I've seen happen)

The LOA itself would induce questions from interviewers. This has happened in our own Adcom meetings.

And yes, if you divulge it, it would mean a rejection. I don't know a way around this. Develop a Plan B.
 
The beer can thing is something that isnt gonna be on your record, happens to a lot of people so probably doesnt need to be reported.

The other thing does though. All the details like oh, they changed the protocol for trials after my case to make it fair for other accused, don;t matter. What matters is you were SUSPENDED FROM YOUR INSTITUTION FOR AN ENTIRE ACADEMIC YEAR. Nothing else matters. You absolutely cannot apply without reporting this.

If I were you I would ask a lawyer, but long term this is something you cant cover up and quite honestly you shouldnt be allowed to. Sexual misconduct is sexual misconduct.

EDIT: I have a friend who was suspended from a large state school for a year on a three strike policy for drinking/drug use. He went to another state school with the intention of finishing pre med. His grades were poor sr year so he went to the schools pre med advisor who straight up was like look, unless you join the army or something there is no way you can put this behind you in a meaningful way. And this was for underage drinking, not sexual misconduct.
 
Responses very much appreciated.

I'm waiting on a copy of my official record from school.

Have some plan Bs for sure but I am worried the same issue will come up.
A couple months after I was actually advised to drop out and reapply if I wanted to return which I did. No idea if that makes any difference but thought I'd share.

@123456users I appreciate the input and am well aware of the seriousness of sexual misconduct hence the post. I know it's not something I can cover up. But yeah I got shafted so sorry I'm bitter about it. Lifelong dream up in smoke just like that.
 
Responses very much appreciated.

I'm waiting on a copy of my official record from school.

Have some plan Bs for sure but I am worried the same issue will come up.
A couple months after I was actually advised to drop out and reapply if I wanted to return which I did. No idea if that makes any difference but thought I'd share.

@123456users I appreciate the input and am well aware of the seriousness of sexual misconduct hence the post. I know it's not something I can cover up. But yeah I got shafted so sorry I'm bitter about it. Lifelong dream up in smoke just like that.

No you don't seem to be well aware of the seriousness of sexual misconduct, hence the fact that you're exploring the possibility that you can conceal to medical schools the fact that you were suspended from your university for an entire year for such an incident.

So sorry your lifetime dreams are in doubt. You can only blame yourself. I'm familiar with "kangaroo courts" in colleges cause I wan an RA for years and involved in a lot of such incidents. I agree that some people get shafted by the university court system, but I've seen enough cases to also appreciate the fact that if your school thought it was worthwhile to suspend you, you probably did something seriously wrong that derailed someone else's life, not just your own.
 
No you don't seem to be well aware of the seriousness of sexual misconduct, hence the fact that you're exploring the possibility that you can conceal to medical schools the fact that you were suspended from your university for an entire year for such an incident.

So sorry your lifetime dreams are in doubt. You can only blame yourself. I'm familiar with "kangaroo courts" in colleges cause I wan an RA for years and involved in a lot of such incidents. I agree that some people get shafted by the university court system, but I've seen enough cases to also appreciate the fact that if your school thought it was worthwhile to suspend you, you probably did something seriously wrong that derailed someone else's life, not just your own.

Look, I am sorry I was not trying to antagonize. But please do not tell me I do not understand the seriousness of sexual misconduct. I am really well aware how seriously it is taken. And please DO NOT insinuate something along the lines of me "derailing someone's life" when you do not know the details. You acknowledge that you are familiar with unfair college hearings, yet immediately assume I am guilty or at least did something wrong. I did not come on here posing as an angel. In fact I never in specifically sought out ways to "cover it up", I am merely seeking advice.
 
What gonnif stated above: The facts of the case and what was 'ruled' in the court hearing. Your views without your opinion of the legitimacy of what happened.
I'll do my best without getting too specific for obvious reasons.

Facts of the case....we both agreed:
- we were in a causal FWB like relationship
- we had consensual sex 6 nights prior to the incident
- she came over the night of the incident
- There was making out/fondling
- My friend saw us making out after the alleged misconduct, but the kissing was consensual
- I was intoxicated (yes, my fault and only mine)
Points of difference....
- She said she was also intoxicated (I had no idea...and she had work very early the next morning)
- She claimed there was digital penetration. I vehemently denied (her motive? Because I was removed from school and not allowed to talk to anyone, I could not substantiate it, but apparently she was in another FWB like deal that turned out to recently become exclusive and rather serious. My advisor told me it was not worth mentioning it for prior reason. And regardless it would not prove I did not do what I was accused of).

"Charges": Drinking, Sexual Misconduct, Discrimination and Harassment (because of title ix)
Hearing: It was total "he said she said." I could not prove my innocence (yes, you have to prove your innocence. I was cross examined and had to provide witnesses, while the young woman only had to answer 4 questions on conference call.) One question was "what do you think is an appropriate punishment for him?" Her response was: "Just a non-contact order" (already in place btw when i was removed from campus.

My advisor seemed optimistic I would get at most a semester if anything. Unfortunately I was ruled responsible on the 3 counts. I was granted an appeal citing procedural error. (I actually contacted a lawyer in the family to confirm who said the investigation was very clearly botched in regards to my rights and the action of security as are layed out in the handbook...I can go into detail but it is rather lengthy and im not sure how relevant) The actions were clearly in contradiction to the schools handbook (led to the aforementioned changes). However they told me despite this, they were not sure if these errors made a difference in the outcome, and upheld the sanction. The LOA I was told was MO for the school when one is suspended. Banned from campus for a year. I penned my letter of intent a few months ago and I am welcomed back to the university in the fall.
 
I'll do my best without getting too specific for obvious reasons.

Facts of the case....we both agreed:
- we were in a causal FWB like relationship
- we had consensual sex 6 nights prior to the incident
- she came over the night of the incident
- There was making out/fondling
- My friend saw us making out after the alleged misconduct, but the kissing was consensual
- I was intoxicated (yes, my fault and only mine)
Points of difference....
- She said she was also intoxicated (I had no idea...and she had work very early the next morning)
- She claimed there was digital penetration. I vehemently denied (her motive? Because I was removed from school and not allowed to talk to anyone, I could not substantiate it, but apparently she was in another FWB like deal that turned out to recently become exclusive and rather serious. My advisor told me it was not worth mentioning it for prior reason. And regardless it would not prove I did not do what I was accused of).

"Charges": Drinking, Sexual Misconduct, Discrimination and Harassment (because of title ix)
Hearing: It was total "he said she said." I could not prove my innocence (yes, you have to prove your innocence. I was cross examined and had to provide witnesses, while the young woman only had to answer 4 questions on conference call.) One question was "what do you think is an appropriate punishment for him?" Her response was: "Just a non-contact order" (already in place btw when i was removed from campus.

My advisor seemed optimistic I would get at most a semester if anything. Unfortunately I was ruled responsible on the 3 counts. I was granted an appeal citing procedural error. (I actually contacted a lawyer in the family to confirm who said the investigation was very clearly botched in regards to my rights and the action of security as are layed out in the handbook...I can go into detail but it is rather lengthy and im not sure how relevant) The actions were clearly in contradiction to the schools handbook (led to the aforementioned changes). However they told me despite this, they were not sure if these errors made a difference in the outcome, and upheld the sanction. The LOA I was told was MO for the school when one is suspended. Banned from campus for a year. I penned my letter of intent a few months ago and I am welcomed back to the university in the fall.
Well, the only thing I know for sure is you absolutely must report this on your AMCAS and AACOMAS. The only thing worse would be not reporting it and then schools finding out when they get your record from your University, in which case you would be immediately removed from medical school.

Now when it comes to how it is viewed by ADCOMS and how you explain it, I think @gonnif @gyngyn and @LizzyM @Goro are the best equipped to give you that advice. But I would start with changing the way you both think and talk about what happened, because the way you immediately described it as kangaroo court/total false BS accusation will not be well-received.
 
Well, the only thing I know for sure is you absolutely must report this on your AMCAS and AACOMAS. The only thing worse would be not reporting it and then schools finding out when they get your record from your University, in which case you would be immediately removed from medical school.

Now when it comes to how it is received by ADCOMS and how you explain it, I think @gonnif @gyngyn and @LizzyM are the best equipped to give you that advice. But I would start with changing the way you both think and talk about what happened, because the way you immediately described it as kangaroo court/total false BS accusation will not be well-received.

Thank you for the response.

I know of course that labeling it as a kangaroo court etc.. would not be well received. I was just doing that for the purposes of this thread. last night I typed out (in a document, not the actual AAMCAS) a hypothetical response to the explanation box of the IA section.
 
Well, the only thing I know for sure is you absolutely must report this on your AMCAS and AACOMAS. The only thing worse would be not reporting it and then schools finding out when they get your record from your University, in which case you would be immediately removed from medical school.

Now when it comes to how it is received by ADCOMS and how you explain it, I think @gonnif @gyngyn and @LizzyM are the best equipped to give you that advice. But I would start with changing the way you both think and talk about what happened, because the way you immediately described it as kangaroo court/total false BS accusation will not be well-received.

Thank you for the response.

I know of course that labeling it as a kangaroo court etc.. would not be well received. I was just doing that for the purposes of this thread. last night I typed out (in a document, not the actual AAMCAS) a hypothetical response to the explanation box of the IA section.
 
As already mentioned, you were suspended from your school. You will definitely need to bring that up. Do you have any W's for that semester? How long ago was the incident? If I were you, I would call your dean to see what's actually on your record.
 
As already mentioned, you were suspended from your school. You will definitely need to bring that up. Do you have any W's for that semester? How long ago was the incident? If I were you, I would call your dean to see what's actually on your record.
You can also request your official/sealed record to be sent to you, and you can see exactly what's on there.
 
As already mentioned, you were suspended from your school. You will definitely need to bring that up. Do you have any W's for that semester? How long ago was the incident? If I were you, I would call your dean to see what's actually on your record.

So yeah I know for sure I have to report it. Luckily (I guess) this happened towards the end of the semester, so I still arranged to take my finals. For obvious reasons, I did not do as well on my semester grades as I hoped I would. I contacted student affairs for my record and am waiting on them.

FWIW, I have friends that are RAs this year and they are made aware of those suspended and not allowed to be on campus. They said I was never once brought up while many others were. I checked our online judicial system, and for the beer offense, all of the detals were reported. the whole nine. For the aforementioned misconduct it says I was "Accused" of sexual misconduct. For sanctions it says "None"
 
Out of curiosity, would OP been better to have been charged by the police in this situation, with the charges dropped and his record expunged? That way he wouldn't have had to tell academics about the charge since it never existed.

Why did the school handle this? I am Canadian and just confused to why the school handled this situation. Seems odd.
 
While it is probably an IA, I am not convinced that it has been documented or listed as a IA yet. The reason why is the OP has stated he was suspended yet it was officially listed as an LOA. Nor do we have any of the Kangaroo Court info. Did the school actually find behavior that was officially ruled as an IA? Or did the school have an issue with he said/she said and was fearful of a lawsuit, thus settled for a voluntary IA?

In short, did the court or the dean rule that this was an IA but offered an LOA instead or did the dean say we will drop the IA action if you take an LOA? You may say I splitting hairs but if no formal institutional action was taken but informal settlement, it isnt an IA,
Again, we dont have enough facts here nor do I see documented evidence show an IA existed
So even if it just was a LOA without an IA, nowhere on the app or in an interview would a question of why he took an LOA come up/would need to explain?
 
Out of curiosity, would OP been better to have been charged by the police in this situation, with the charges dropped and his record expunged? That way he wouldn't have had to tell academics about the charge since it never existed.

Why did the school handle this? I am Canadian and just confused to why the school handled this situation. Seems odd.
From my understanding, even if a charge is expunged, the arrest record remains no matter what. So if it does turn out that this is not an IA, and OP does not have to report it, it definitely would not have been better because OP would have to report any arrests on secondaries that ask for them.
 
Under FERPA (google it if you don't know what it means) you have the right to review your university records. Do this. If you don't have a documented Institutional Action for anything sexual, that your lucky stars, report the booze offence/IA, state that you look a leave of absence to reflect on why you were acting out in this way at the school, went elsewhere for a year and then returned to your original institution.

Title IX is totally out of control on college campuses and lives are being ruined. If your school managed to keep everyone happy without ruining your life, you will have been very lucky.
 
So even if it just was a LOA without an IA, nowhere on the app or in an interview would a question of why he took an LOA come up/would need to explain?

I have seen instances where someone took a LOA or even did a 1 year transfer like the OP, and they were asked about it in interviews. There were people who couldn't (or wouldn't) explain why they took that course of action, and they were rejected.
 
So after the outcome was rendered, I received written notice that I was found responsible of the 3 charges and was suspended for the year. I was told I was being placed on LOA. I was later told that was the standard course of action for a suspended student. Reading up on the website, it stated that IA will not be placed on the official transcript, unless the student was suspended. Yet, it could not have been placed on there because I applied to another school and was accepted.

My advisor told me if i wanted credits to transfer back to my original school when I returned, I would need to drop out and reapply. I did just this and am welcomed back to the school in the fall.

I never met with the dean. The head of the board, who was also the one I needed to write my letter of intent to, is the Assistant Vice Pres. of Student Affairs.
 
Under FERPA (google it if you don't know what it means) you have the right to review your university records. Do this. If you don't have a documented Institutional Action for anything sexual, that your lucky stars, report the booze offence/IA, state that you look a leave of absence to reflect on why you were acting out in this way at the school, went elsewhere for a year and then returned to your original institution.

Title IX is totally out of control on college campuses and lives are being ruined. If your school managed to keep everyone happy without ruining your life, you will have been very lucky.

I am aware of FERPA and requested my student records. Also, love the "M" quote and picture
 
Damn. I really don't have any additional advice other than what others have said above. But I hope everything works out for you. Just be as honest as possible and make sure to apply to as many schools as you can afford.
 
Look, I am sorry I was not trying to antagonize. But please do not tell me I do not understand the seriousness of sexual misconduct. I am really well aware how seriously it is taken. And please DO NOT insinuate something along the lines of me "derailing someone's life" when you do not know the details. You acknowledge that you are familiar with unfair college hearings, yet immediately assume I am guilty or at least did something wrong. I did not come on here posing as an angel. In fact I never in specifically sought out ways to "cover it up", I am merely seeking advice.

You're not antagoinzing me lol but you're also not getting what I'm saying.. you have to report this on your app.
 
You're not antagoinzing me lol but you're also not getting what I'm saying.. you have to report this on your app.

As @LizzyM has stated, he might not have to report it depending on what the punishment came down to. If there is no paper trail then he does not.
 
"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition."

So I guess you're arguing in theory if "there's no paper trail" he could maybe get away with it. I'm simply saying that that is the wrong thing to do. That's why he shouldn't do it. Bit I digress.
 
"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition."

So I guess you're arguing in theory if "there's no paper trail" he could maybe get away with it. I'm simply saying that that is the wrong thing to do. That's why he shouldn't do it. Bit I digress.

If it were you in his situation, would you do the same knowing that doing so would reduce your odds at admission by at least 80%? It's easy to speak from a moral high horse when you have nothing to lose
 
If it were you in his situation, would you do the same knowing that doing so would reduce your odds at admission by at least 80%? It's easy to speak from a moral high horse when you have nothing to lose

No it's easy to speak from a moral high ground when I wasnt suspended from my undergrad institution for an entire year. Again I've seen these "kangaroo courts" in action, very, very rarely does a student get this penalty for sexual misconduct, at least at my school.

So yea, I can speak from a position of moral high ground. And quite honestly all the suggestions for how he can lie about the true nature of his LOA are absolutely ridiculous to be coming from adults.

I've had enough with this site. Good luck with lying about your past to get into medical school OP.
 
"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition."

So I guess you're arguing in theory if "there's no paper trail" he could maybe get away with it. I'm simply saying that that is the wrong thing to do. That's why he shouldn't do it. Bit I digress.

With that wording it says if you were the recipient of an IA. The ADCOMs here are even "splitting hairs" because they are aware of this. Like they said, the school could be worried about a lawsuit so "they agreed" upon the student taking a LOA. That is different than an IA requiring him to take a LOA. The former isn't an actual IA. It is the schools way of sweeping the issue under the rug and therefore the student wouldn't have to report it because they never received an IA. The wording states that if he got an IA, even if there was no punishment, then he would have to report. Although none of us know the real story, there is a possibility the school "dropped the IA" in lieu of him taking a LOA. In that case, they would not have to report it because they were never, for lack of a better word, convicted of the IA. Now if he was "convicted" of the IA and required to take a LOA then he will be reporting it.

I am glad your school was fair, but I saw the total opposite. Although I was never affected by the railroading personally, I did see it happen quite a few times at my undergrad. Not only sexual misconducts but other charges that were ludicrous.
 
No it's easy to speak from a moral high ground when I wasnt suspended from my undergrad institution for an entire year. Again I've seen these "kangaroo courts" in action, very, very rarely does a student get this penalty for sexual misconduct, at least at my school.

So yea, I can speak from a position of moral high ground. And quite honestly all the suggestions for how he can lie about the true nature of his LOA are absolutely ridiculous to be coming from adults.

I've had enough with this site. Good luck with lying about your past to get into medical school OP.

Yeah go cool off buddy
 
If I were you, I wouldn't mention this on my application, OP. You're simply not going to get into medical school if you do. I'd take the risk of the slim possibility of getting removed from medical school in the future because I highly doubt any adcom will look into this as long as you give them your money.

Sounds like a bunch of bull ****, anyway.
 
If I were you, I wouldn't mention this on my application, OP. You're simply not going to get into medical school if you do. I'd take the risk of the slim possibility of getting removed from medical school in the future because I highly doubt any adcom will look into this as long as you give them your money.

Sounds like a bunch of bull ****, anyway.
You're right, if the past year has taught us anything it's that being accused of sexual assault really won't stand in your way when trying to get a highly respected/powerful position.
 
I think you need to be honest when it comes to medical school apps. You need to be open, honest, and truthful because you are responsible for your own actions and to completely ignore or overlook them, you are running away from the problem. Take responsibility and make sure that you contact each school that you apply to or address it in your application because you're trying to be a medical school student- not mentioning it is exactly like lying. And a doctor doesn't embody a liar. Its really difficult and I'm sorry that you're going through something like this, but sexual misconduct is a HUGE deal.
 
I think you need to be honest when it comes to medical school apps. You need to be open, honest, and truthful because you are responsible for your own actions and to completely ignore or overlook them, you are running away from the problem. Take responsibility and make sure that you contact each school that you apply to or address it in your application because you're trying to be a medical school student- not mentioning it is exactly like lying. And a doctor doesn't embody a liar. Its really difficult and I'm sorry that you're going through something like this, but sexual misconduct is a HUGE deal.

You have no idea how badly I want to do that. But it's an automatic rejection. I'm damned if I do damned if I don't.


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You have no idea how badly I want to do that. But it's an automatic rejection. I'm damned if I do damned if I don't.


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You have an obligation to the people that you're going to be treating one day to be truthful. You do not know if it is an automatic rejection. Medical schools are not your enemy, but they will judge you harsher in the event that they find out you are lying.
 
You have an obligation to the people that you're going to be treating one day to be truthful. You do not know if it is an automatic rejection. Medical schools are not your enemy, but they will judge you harsher in the event that they find out you are lying.

Of course it's an automatic rejection. There are so many other candidates why would they take a chance on me


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I don't mean to be rude, but are you looking for someone to tell you it's okay to leave it off? Because I don't think you'll get that here. You clearly know the consequences of disclosing it, but it's either that or don't apply to medical school.

I think it's best to go about it the respectable way (disclose if it's truly an IA/have a good reason for your LOA if it's not), and have a plan B.
 
I don't mean to be rude, but are you looking for someone to tell you it's okay to leave it off? Because I don't think you'll get that here. You clearly know the consequences of disclosing it, but it's either that or don't apply to medical school.

I think it's best to go about it the respectable way (disclose if it's truly an IA/have a good reason for your LOA if it's not), and have a plan B.

No, I'm just looking for advice/venting. I'm still waiting on my school, but if it is in fact an IA, I know what I have to do.


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No, I'm just looking for advice/venting. I'm still waiting on my school, but if it is in fact an IA, I know what I have to do.


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I sympathize. It's a really rough situation you're in, OP. Vent away. Hopefully it's not an IA and you can just get on with things.
 
Damn. We got politics and philosophy in one thread. Who would've ever guessed that was possible.

Good luck opie. You are dead on arrival if that's on your app. Especially in today's world. You are guilty unless proven innocent.
 
Damn. We got politics and philosophy in one thread. Who would've ever guessed that was possible.

Good luck opie. You are dead on arrival if that's on your app. Especially in today's world. You are guilty unless proven innocent.

Don't forget borat.

Thanks pal. Schools have to make sure they convey the best image possible. Understandable, but god does it suck


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If you didnt do it, get a lawyer.

Sexual assault is such a loosely held 'crime' that just about anything you do can qualify in the eyes of the beholder.

Im sure 'she' assaulted you as well, probably...technically...legally...now that I think about it.

One need only consider Ohio State's most recent blunder to get a sense of how twisted he said/she said can get.
 
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