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Interesting difference!!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by HoosierDO, Oct 28, 2002.

  1. HoosierDO

    HoosierDO Senior Member
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    Ok guys...as some of you know I am currently applying to DO schools!!!! I find it quite interesting the difference in attitude between MD students and DO students... i found some quite disturbing posts on the allopathic boards and wanted to share it, and maybe get some insight as to why they are so damn unhappy? we all know med school is tough...and you will never know how tough until you are there...but why are the DO students not affected like this...is there a different attitude going in...i have my personal opinion but im hesitant to share it at this point...might start some arguments...no fun!!! If you have any insight please respond...check out the rest of the post if you get a chance...below is the post i found!!! The rest can be read on the allopathic board under "second thoughts about med school"

    Screw it, drop out and do something better with your life while you can. I'm not joking here man, honestly this is serious. Showing up at the hospital at 6 A.M. everyday and seeing the same people and going through the same motions becomes very mundane. The "glory" of medicine is a huge sham. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, it's just one day blending into another, over and over again. By the time we finish training, managed care will have cut reimbursements so low that we'll be taking out loans just to pay back our med school loans. I don't even feel like I'm 'practicing' medicine anymore, more like following strict protocol to cover my a** in case some patient decides he'd like to make some money and sikes his lawyer on the hospital. Everybody around me is practicing "self-protection medicine" if you know what I mean...it's the new rage. All it takes is one patient to decide he wants to sue and your life is living hell for the next 5 years as you go through proceeding after proceeding to see if their claim is justified. And it's never obvious who it's going to be, in fact it's not always the person you actually treat. One of the residents here and an attending from the VA are getting sued by the family of a 98 year old lady. Bascially they are suing on her behalf because they don't think she got proper care. Not to sound crude, but she's 98 years old for crimminy sakes and the attending did all he could and she's still alive to sue him! Believe me, a couple years of this and you'll have a new found hate for lawyers and how much they can make an innocent person suffer, a hate that you never knew existed before. If you're going to stick with it, don't worry about your grades and stuff like that, because none of that stuff matters once you hit residency. Just pass and get it over with. Life on the wards is so entirely different that you sometimes wonder why they bothered with most of the first two years of med school. You learn what medicine is all about once you start internship...med school seems like a stepping stone in hindsight. I know you may think this is all coming from a tired, jaded resident...but most everybody here is like this, even the chiefs. One thing though, if you want the life with minimum hassles, try your best to get into dermatology or psych. Unfortunately dermatology requires very good grades and board scores, so you're gonna have to bust your butt if you want it...I guess enough people have figured they want a life and not be a slave to their profession. On the other hand, psychiatry is pretty easy to get. 9-5...that's what you want buddy. None of this 100 hour work week and 80 hours once you make attending. PM&R is also very good, but it's getting more competitive as med students are getting wiser every year.
    Repeat after me...derm,pysch,pm&r...over and over.
     
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  3. HoosierDO

    HoosierDO Senior Member
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    YIKES...there is another one...the worst day of my life...what is going on?
     
  4. Entei

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    I'm not a med student YET, but I will be entering an allopathic school in 2003. I've also been following the depressing posts on the other forum. It's upsetting that there seems to be so many people who are unhappy with their decision to go into medicine, but I think that some (not all) of these posters didn't really have a clear understanding of what they were getting into in the first place. No one can really know what med school or residency are like until you get there, but you still have to appreciate the fact that most of your career is going to be unpleasant. After all, you're going to be working with sick/dying people and you're going to be right in the middle of a lot of misery. People are going to be uncooperative. They're going to yell at you. They're going to vomit on you. They're going to hate you. You have to know this going in, and you have to accept it and embrace it and feel called to try and make the situation better.

    Now, this is an easy thing to say that you can do, especially if you haven't really been exposed to this type of situation yet. I can say that I'll be able to handle it, but who really knows how any of us will react to the next seven years?

    But I have faith that I'll find my career rewarding. Why? I've spoken to many other doctors and residents, and, yes, there have been many who have urged me to look into another career, something that's easier and pays more. They say that if they had it to do all over again, they would never choose a career in medicine knowing what it is actually like. However, there are many more who say that the rewards they have recieved from their careers have been more than worth the epic struggle.

    I think that the posters on the allopathic board are the vocal minority who are very unhappy, and that the many who are happy are simply quietly going about their business doing what they love. Also, many of them are just starting on their road to becoming physicians. Many of them have just started school, and they are still adjusting. They might lack the perspective to see that their careers aren't as bad as the first seven years make them out to be. Med school and residency are the time when you have to pay your dues. We expect a lot from our doctors. How can they have the strength to deal with all of the despair of sickness and disease without ever facing hardship? But I don't think you have to be a martyr to practice medicine. There's more to being a doctor than residency and med school. It gets "easier" after that, and the period after residency is what will make up the majority of your years as a physician.

    I hope I don't come off sounding naive and idealistic. I've thought long and hard about my choice of career. I think I have acquired some understanding of the hardships that I will face, and I think I have the strength and faith to overcome them and become a good physician. I will not be able to save the world, but I will be able to make a difference in someone's life someday. That's all that matters to me.
     
  5. HoosierDO

    HoosierDO Senior Member
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    Entei, thanks for your insight...i think your post was great...far better than some of the others that bit my head off for stating a difference...close minded i guess. I too have thought long and hard about a career in med...i have searched long and hard for other careers that i might enjoy...just to reassure myself that the time, stress, and dedication is worth it! I appreciate your input...thanks!!!:clap:
     
  6. double elle

    double elle Senior Member
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    I am a second-year at KCOM. I responded to the guy who posted that message about not being sure about his decision. I totally related....I don't relate 100% of the time, but there are times I wonder what the hell I was thinking....and I've yet to talk to ANYONE...classmate or doc...who hasn't thought the same.

    I am NOT disagreeing with either of you...just trying to add a new twist to your thinking...

    The person who started that post had very severe circumstances. He ended up in the hospital! However, there have many times where I thought a nice, relaxing psychiatric hospital stay would do me some good! (i don't know if his hospitilization was of this nature or not)

    Many people post on here out of complete frustration....Heck, just read the KCOM 2005 post from start to finish! We're even at eachother's throats sometimes. It doesn't mean ANYONE on here is completely unhappy and is contemplating quitting 100% of the time. It just means that fatigue, frustration, lack of money, etc gets to us.

    And, you both are correct in saying that incoming medical students don't know about any of this until they get here. Seriously, you can talk to every single med student in the world..and it still won't prepare you for what is coming. And, everyone reacts differently to it. Me? I came in totally scared out of my mind..expecting the absolute worst. You know what? I was pleasantly surprised. I must have talked to all the REALLY negative people...because it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.....however, it is STILL really bad at times!

    Another thing that medical students have started to think about, that perhaps you haven't been exposed to yet, is our future as docs. Yes, we want to help people and all that good stuff...but prospective docs nowadays are seriously faced with the question of being able to AFFORD to practice. I wonder everyday about what is going to happen with the malpractic situation, insurance, etc...things that influence our careers. No, I don't need to make a billion dollars a year...but I would like to live comfortably and still pay off my loans, while supporting my family. My husband has taken a big risk too...with me taking out 27K each year to pay tuition...I worry about our financial status if things don't improve. We have docs in the area who are simply quitting or moving someplace else because of all this. My point: sometimes when faced with all this stuff....current students wonder if all this hell will pay off. Yes, we will get to help people...but I could have remained a high school teacher and done that. My only financial motivation is to take care of my family...I don't need a big house or a new BMW.

    So, when things get hectic, we are sleep deprived, and we receive medical magazines that have articles about the future of medicine...it's frutrating to know that we are busting our butts at the moment for such an uncertain future. I don't want to super-specialize..I just want to be a good doc.

    BUT...the bottom line is that I DO want to be a doc! Despite all the bitching and complaining I do on here at times. I'd rather do it here than in the classroom where my negativity can become contagious. And, again, that isn't 100% of the time. Medical school is a love-hate thing. You love the fact that you are there, but you hate the beatings you take every day.

    I don't think it's fair to say there is a distinct difference in MD or DO students as far as happiness. I think that generally, DO students tend to be a little older..so, perhaps we handle things better than other people at times....but school is school and stress is stress and we are all on the same team when it comes to this game.

    Believe me...you will both contemplate packing your bags next year (or whenever you begin)! My classmates and I constantly make jokes about having 'moving back home' parties. We aren't serious...but it's ALWAYS in the backs of our minds.

    Good luck to you both, and I hope when things pile up...and exams hit hard..you will remember that NO ONE is exempt from feeling frustrated and wanting to quit at times....we all become angry and hateful towards others...and we are all forgiven when it's over.
     
  7. DocWagner

    DocWagner Senior Member
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    I understand what you are speaking about...the first two years of medical school sucks. But it is two years and two years ONLY. Years 3 and 4 are much easier, and quite honestly the 4th year is relatively simple (except for the match).
    I saw it as a relatively LARGE accomplishment to make it through...I mean if mean if med school was easy your "Doctorate of MEdicine" would be worthless. And don't let the magazines that predict a poor future of medicine, it is primarily used to make physicians PROACTIVE. And, I think it is working in many instances.
    Med school is tough, residency is tough...but the rewards are worth it. And the rewards aren't always monetary. All in all, it is nice to think you will likely never be unemployed for the rest of your life, and yes, you will be able to drive that Porche you have always wanted and likely buy that vacation home. Life will not suck.
     
  8. Keep in mind that most of what these posts are saying are peoples views of the medical system. Unfortunately much is true. In the next decade serious reform must ensue if the profession is to survive.

    The goal of medicine in my eyes is to do it because you love medicine not by how much money you will make. Second is to accept the reality that you will be sued, it does not mean you are a bad doctor or should not dissuade you from your dream.

    While the mundane scut work of the wards may burn you out in residency it is an essential part of training with an finite duration. This too will change as the new 80 hr work week schedules become mandated.

    When I get down I always look for the pros in the situation and think back many years ago when I longed to be where I am today... the murkiness clears and I am able to go on with my day.

    Good luck.
    Diane
     
  9. DoubleDoctor

    DoubleDoctor Ceder Dog's Daddy
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    I am just starting med school but my Mom is a nurse who absolutely loves nursing and has always wanted to be a nurse and yes, she has those "screw it, it's not worth it" days like the day that an insurance company insisted that a physician move a 18 year old with a cerebral aneurysm out of the ICU to a med surg floor and the kid was dead within 12 hours. Bottom line is that she was upset about this for months but she loves being a nurse and her patients. The simple truth is that people say stuff as a way of venting anger and frustration.

    I majored in Biochem/Micro/Molecular and the year that I had P Chem I would have definitely told anyone that asked not to major in chemistry. For that entire year I hated chemistry and wished that I had never taken that as a major because the class was suicide and hurt my GPA. I studied more for that class than all the others combined and still ended up with a B. The was 2 or 3 years ago, and I no longer feel that way. I'm glad that I have the background that I do because it is a great help to me in my research.

    I too have been told by DO's and MD's not to go into medicine, but I think this is the right choice for me. I think that DO's and MD's sometimes look for the differences not the similarities and hence we perpetuate the strife between the two.
     
  10. dkwyler94

    dkwyler94 Senior Member
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    I have read many of the posts on the allopathic side that started this subject and the posts on this topic as well. I don't think there is much more I can say except a good "Amen" to double LLs comments. (She is my classmate, got to support her :) )

    I think I came in with my eyes a little more open then some. I had worked for 5 years in a hospital. I had talked to several doctors, I'd had friends in medical school with whom I had also spoken. From the perspective I had, I didn't know how I could possibly do it. Coming in thinking it was going to be pure Hell, I think it helped finding out it was only mostly Hell. Better than I had anticipated.

    Each break I go back and spend time in my old hospital shadowing doctors. I think this is the best break I could take. Spending eight hours a day in class, and another 8 hours sitting around studying is enough to burn anyone out. No matter how sure you are you want to be a doctor. I have had to given up everything I enjoy doing for these years. But when I get back to the hospital it all comes back why I decided I wanted to be a doctor in the first place. Not to study to books, but to work with people, use my knowledge and reason to make diagnosis and treat people.

    When I go back, I also always have some of the CNAs come to me who are hoping to go to medical school. They are looking for advice on how to get in. I tell them the normal run down that we all know about what you need to do, then I tell them exactly what there life will be like for the next eight years. I probably sound bitter and negative. I really am not, I would choose to do this again in a second, and honestly I don't think I would have every not responded in the affirmative if you had asked me even on my worst day. I still hate it, and I think if they can listen to just how hard it is, and still decide to fight for it, then they more likely have made the right decision for there life.

    I keep telling myself next quarter will be more interesting, and next year III, will be more fun, but it is all hard. Roll on friends and excuse my rambling. My brain is "comfortably numb."
     
  11. Resident Alien

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    Dont let what you read on the allo board give you material to compare allopathic and osteopathic schools. Medical school can be and is a stress zone, the "type" of school you go to has no bearing on that.
     
  12. njdesi

    njdesi Senior Member
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    Hey all:

    I am applying to DO schools right now, and all though I have no acceptance anywhere (yet!), I am so happy with my choice to choose osteopathic medicine. I feel the osteopathic medical community - from DOs I have shadowed, to admissions personnel at many of the schools, and the SDN osteopathic med forums - is extremely supportive and non-competitive. People are always willling to help out and give you advice. You do not seem to have too many threads on "What is your GPA and MCAT" which is what I like.

    Anyway, I grew up in a medical family - my father has a very very demanding career as an ER doc. And I have seen the incredible demands of this profession - the long hours, the stress, the burnout, the frustration with difficult patients, the countless board exams, malpractice fees, and CME. My father also gave me a very realistic perspective on medical school - the countless hours of studying, the difficult exams, the imp. of time management and maintaining utmost professionalism. So I feel like to some extent, I know what medical school involves. But I also know realistically I have to get my feet wet.

    As demanding as this profession is, I know at the end of the day, there is nothing more gratifying than knowing you made a difference in the life of one patient. That is what has drawn me to the medical field, despite the long road ahead of schooling and training.

    Good luck all.

    NJDESI
     
  13. Dr Sum Day

    Dr Sum Day SDN Lifetime Donor
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    NJDESI,

    Excellent thought.
     
  14. too-sweet-phat-cool 4-life

    too-sweet-phat-cool 4-life Way too Sweet for you!!!!
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    I totally agree. I have never wanted to do anything else than be a doc, but every once in a while I don't want to spend 4 hours in the anatomy lab or look at histo slides for hours while college football is on. I think the majority of med students (DO or MD) are like me, sometimes it is awsome and sometimes I would much rather be watching my #2 ranked Sooners kick some butt. I have friends from DO and MD schools and both agree that school is very very demanding, but in the long run it is worth it. I think there are differences between MD and DO schools, but I don't really think this is one that is warrented.
     

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