Internal Medicine Specialty Away Rotations in CA

[chewy2008]

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[HatTricks01]

I would recommend that you apply to zero institutions. It’s probably best not to do an away at all. I was in a similar boat last year wanting to do an away in California because I was very interested in moving out there for residency (no ties). Was told by multiple advisors and internet strangers that I’m better off not doing one for the sake of trying to up my chances for an interview. Unless your goal is to get a feel for a particular institution (if you like them, not vice versa), then i would advise against it. You generally have a lot to lose and very little to gain. I ended up not getting an interview at the particular program that I was thinking about doing an away at but received interviews from the 3 other CA programs I applied to.

The programs you listed are all within your reach based on the info you provided. You’ll likely receive interviews from them without an away (assuming you do well on CK). The more reputable CA programs (UCSF, Stanford, UCLA) you’re very unlikely to receive interviews from regardless of whether or not you do an away. UCSD is the one upper tier CA program I’d say you have a small sliver of hope at.

 

[chewy2008]

I would recommend that you apply to zero institutions. It’s probably best not to do an away at all. I was in a similar boat last year wanting to do an away in California because I was very interested in moving out there for residency (no ties). Was told by multiple advisors and internet strangers that I’m better off not doing one for the sake of trying to up my chances for an interview. Unless your goal is to get a feel for a particular institution (if you like them, not vice versa), then i would advise against it. You generally have a lot to lose and very little to gain. I ended up not getting an interview at the particular program that I was thinking about doing an away at but received interviews from the 3 other CA programs I applied to.

The programs you listed are all within your reach based on the info you provided. You’ll likely receive interviews from them without an away (assuming you do well on CK). The more reputable CA programs (UCSF, Stanford, UCLA) you’re very unlikely to receive interviews from regardless of whether or not you do an away. UCSD is the one upper tier CA program I’d say you have a small sliver of hope at.

Thanks! The current fourth years I've talked to recommend that I do an away in CA because many attendings and programs don't know of our school very well as we're quite new, so the expectation is that we have to shine and obtain a strong LOR. I agree that I have a nil or very small chance of getting interviews at those top institutions you listed because of my clerkship grades, so I'm open to the other UCs like Irvine and Davis and community programs as well.

 

[DBV]

that pass is going to hurt

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

We had a student do an away here and it ended up hurting his application. You better fit well with the personality of the team you happen to be in and familiarize yourself well with the EMR, hospital layout, and how things are done generally. IMO it's not worth it.

 

[chewy2008]

Interesting how you guys are telling me to avoid doing an away!
Yes, I do understand that I'll need time to adjust to the new environment but that's a given for anyone doing an away rotation. Also I'd say that I'm pretty flexible in terms of adjusting to a new environment and I'm pretty personable and outgoing. May I ask for specific reasons why that person didn't do well on their away? I've heard that doing a sub-I IM at an away would be worse than doing a consult/elective because the sub-I is more intense.
Since our school's curriculum changed so that we gain more clinical experience, by the time June comes when I plan to do an away, I'll have studied for and taken Step 2 CK/CS, done a Sub-I in IM at the home institution, and done ICU.
Again, the main reasons why I want to do an away is to present myself as a helpful and professional student and be an ambassador for my home institution so that they don't just see me as a piece of paper who only got a pass in IM.

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

Interesting how you guys are telling me to avoid doing an away!
Yes, I do understand that I'll need time to adjust to the new environment but that's a given for anyone doing an away rotation. Also I'd say that I'm pretty flexible in terms of adjusting to a new environment and I'm pretty personable and outgoing. May I ask for specific reasons why that person didn't do well on their away? I've heard that doing a sub-I IM at an away would be worse than doing a consult/elective because the sub-I is more intense.
Since our school's curriculum changed so that we gain more clinical experience, by the time June comes when I plan to do an away, I'll have studied for and taken Step 2 CK/CS, done a Sub-I in IM at the home institution, and done ICU.
Again, the main reasons why I want to do an away is to present myself as a helpful and professional student and be an ambassador for my home institution so that they don't just see me as a piece of paper who only got a pass in IM.

We felt the med student was ok, not great or awful and required some hand holding. I'm sure on paper he would have been better and I'm sure he'd be a fine resident but we all felt "meh" about his performance as a visiting student.

 

[DBV]

We felt the med student was ok, not great or awful and required some hand holding. I'm sure on paper he would have been better and I'm sure he'd be a fine resident but we all felt "meh" about his performance as a visiting student.

I've heard this exact thing from many residents and my home programs PD themself. Aways don't help in medicine.

 

[gutonc]

Again, the main reasons why I want to do an away is to present myself as a helpful and professional student and be an ambassador for my home institution so that they don't just see me as a piece of paper who only got a pass in IM.

As has been discussed here ad nauseum, away rotations in medicine are generally neutral at best, and more often harmful than helpful.

If you can't get more than a P in your home rotation, the likelihood of crushing your away is going to be pretty low. Furthermore, a lot of "top" IM programs, and many mid-tier ones, won't allow visiting students to rotate in general IM/ICU and you can only rotate on subspecialty services. In this case, your interaction with the people that matter and can help you get an interview (at that program only) will be pretty limited. Most of the time, the IM PD won't even be aware of your presence at his/her program unless you go knock on his/her door and tell them.

If you want to buff your app to maximize your chances of getting IVs in CA, work hard to make sure your 2CK score is higher than your (very solid) Step 1. And you need to be the top SubI (which you will do in July) that your home IM program has ever seen, and get a LOR from your attending that says that.

 

[rokshana]

Interesting how you guys are telling me to avoid doing an away!
Yes, I do understand that I'll need time to adjust to the new environment but that's a given for anyone doing an away rotation. Also I'd say that I'm pretty flexible in terms of adjusting to a new environment and I'm pretty personable and outgoing. May I ask for specific reasons why that person didn't do well on their away? I've heard that doing a sub-I IM at an away would be worse than doing a consult/elective because the sub-I is more intense.
Since our school's curriculum changed so that we gain more clinical experience, by the time June comes when I plan to do an away, I'll have studied for and taken Step 2 CK/CS, done a Sub-I in IM at the home institution, and done ICU.
Again, the main reasons why I want to do an away is to present myself as a helpful and professional student and be an ambassador for my home institution so that they don't just see me as a piece of paper who only got a pass in IM.

reason people are telling you not to do an away, it that its not a guarantee that you will impress and an away can go in the wrong way.

as others have said, if YOU need to see if the place is a good fit for you or if want to get experience you otherwise can't get at your school, then its makes sense...but you could risk making a bad impression (seen that happen enough times) so your rational is not the right one.

 

[chewy2008]

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[chewy2008]

reason people are telling you not to do an away, it that its not a guarantee that you will impress and an away can go in the wrong way.

as others have said, if YOU need to see if the place is a good fit for you or if want to get experience you otherwise can't get at your school, then its makes sense...but you could risk making a bad impression (seen that happen enough times) so your rational is not the right one.

Right, I do want to get a feel of the environment as well. Thanks for your input.

 

[chewy2008]

I should also mention I had weaker all-around app than you, didn't do any aways, just put a CA address on my ERAS app and got every CA interview except for those top 4 programs (UCSD, UCLA, UCSF, Stanford)

Thanks Milotic for your honesty. I might DM you for more info about your experience if you don't mind.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks Milotic for your honesty. I might DM you for more info about your experience if you don't mind.

Because the rest of us are just blowing smoke up your a**?

 

[rokshana]

Only top like 10 MD schools and DO schools don't do AOA. I wouldn't be surprised if they just aren't telling you about AOA, but if you have the chance to get it still by rocking the rest of your clerkships I would do that and take your CK in like June to assure an amazing score, both of these things will more likely net you good chances at Cali programs than an away. Tons of IMGs/DOs do aways at places like Cedars and don't get anything out of it.

AOA (as in the honor society) is only for LCME accredited schools...there are 131 chapters (the only international one is AUB in Lebanon) so there maybe US MD schools that don't have AOA chapters (and no DO school has one).