International students considering doing an MD degree in Australia

[kaion]

Hi all,

I am an international student considering doing an MD degree in Australia. Understand that there has been an internship crisis for years and just want to know what are the chances for an international student getting a training spot in Australia.

I have read that there was previously a commonwealth medical internship scheme that provides extra 100+ spots for internationals. But seems that the scheme has been replaced by "Junior Doctor Training Program - Private Hospital Stream". Does anyone know what is the difference?

Lastly, can someone shed some light on the difficulty of getting a training spot in UK NHS / MATCH in the US (non-Ochsner)? I guess US will be tough given the change of Step 1 to P/F. Not sure about the NHS though. Personally I am more inclined to do an MD in Australia instead of an MBBS in UK as there are much fewer 4-year programs available to international students in UK and tuition in UK is higher than Aus.

Thank you so much!

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[ithinkimightbestupid]

There are 547 (15% of 3648) International Medical Grads as of 2016, 234 of which did not get an Internship. Your odds are like 50% National Internship Crisis | Australian Medical Students’ Association

The PHS is a different pathway to Internships than the CMI in Australia, one which International Graduates are given preference. I suggest reading this https://www.amsa.org.au/sites/amsa.org.au/files/Internships for International Students (2019).pdf

In terms of matching US you will have a hard time matching into anything competitive as a Non-US FMG. Although Australian schools probably give you a better chance than Carrib schools. Not sure about the NHS but their system is like Australias where you do internships before applying for speciality training programs so i assume it would be easier. In the end the saying goes (at least here in Australia) "Study medicine where you want to practice it"

 

[BigPikachu]

Every country preferences its local graduates above international ones. It's a risk you take as an IMG in any country that you fight over limited internship and residency placements.

 

[mcat_taker]

Hi all,

I am an international student considering doing an MD degree in Australia. Understand that there has been an internship crisis for years and just want to know what are the chances for an international student getting a training spot in Australia.

I have read that there was previously a commonwealth medical internship scheme that provides extra 100+ spots for internationals. But seems that the scheme has been replaced by "Junior Doctor Training Program - Private Hospital Stream". Does anyone know what is the difference?

Lastly, can someone shed some light on the difficulty of getting a training spot in UK NHS / MATCH in the US (non-Ochsner)? I guess US will be tough given the change of Step 1 to P/F. Not sure about the NHS though. Personally I am more inclined to do an MD in Australia instead of an MBBS in UK as there are much fewer 4-year programs available to international students in UK and tuition in UK is higher than Aus.

Thank you so much!

Every international student I know got an internship this year (anecdotal but just my 2 cents). JDTP and CMI serve the same purpose-- providing internships for international medical students who studied in Australia. I believe that CMI just morphed into JDTP. Different names for essentially the same thing.

And as BigPikachu mentioned. Any time you study in another country and want to stay there to train, that is a risk you must take. No one will hand you a job. Every country will protect their own local grads first.

 

[OzMedSchoolHopeful]

This is super helpful information!

Is there a place I could find stats for the 2019 internships? Do they post them somewhere so I can see how many international students got a placement?

I heard from Amanda at OzTREKK that they are doing a medical licensing webinar next week, so hopefully they have some more information. Has anyone used OzTREKK before? Do you know if its legitimate?

Thanks!

 

[Average_Canoe]

In terms of internships it varies state by state. In NSW and Queensland international students are 4th in priority behind domestic students who studied in that state and domestics who studied out of state or in NZ. In Victoria however they are 2nd in priority only behind domestics educated in state while being ahead of domestic students who studied out of state (a bit controversial in some circles). As stated above it is likely you will get an internship however you may have to flexible as to the location (typically rural areas are the more likely spot for internationals however you can still get one in more metropolitan areas~again anecdotal ). Here is a link for more information about internships for international students from 2019 produced by the Australian Medical Student Association: https://www.amsa.org.au/sites/amsa.org.au/files/Internships for International Students (2019).pdf

I used OzTREKK (currently studying in Australia) yes they are legitimate. All they are is an agency that liaisons with the schools and provides an easier process of applying, in terms of submitting the appropriate documents, meeting deadlines etc. They will also host a meet and greet in Toronto prior to you starting so you can meet some classmates ahead of time while also hosting a catch up dinner in Australia at some point.

 

[kaion]

Hey guys, thanks a lot.

Just a follow-up question. I also read that it takes extremely long time to get into specialty training.

Is it true that you can get into basic training immediately after internship, then after you finish basic training in a few years, you have to wait a few years before an advanced training spot opens and in total it would take 10+ years to become a specialist?

As an IMG, I am also considering UK. UK has changed their placement policy so everyone is having same priority for training (regardless of nationality and country they received the degree). So I am thinking if it is actually better/faster to study in UK and become a specialist there then go Australia through competitive pathway.

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[Average_Canoe]

Hey guys, thanks a lot.

Just a follow-up question. I also read that it takes extremely long time to get into specialty training.

Is it true that you can get into basic training immediately after internship, then after you finish basic training in a few years, you have to wait a few years before an advanced training spot opens and in total it would take 10+ years to become a specialist?

As an IMG, I am also considering UK. UK has changed their placement policy so everyone is having same priority for training (regardless of nationality and country they received the degree). So I am thinking if it is actually better/faster to study in UK and become a specialist there then go Australia through competitive pathway.

Sent from my Mi 9T using Tapatalk

Here is a link to the Australian Medical Association where they have every speciality listed and you can see how long the training pathways take and requirements:

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ama.com.au

It varies depending on what you are interested in and some require you to be a permanent resident in order to apply (the College of Surgeons and College of General Practitioners). Yes it can take a while to get into certain specialities (ortho, gen surg etc) however you can still work in that field as "unaccredited" meaning you are not in an official training pathway, but are still receiving training and experience in order to apply for the next year when applications open again for the credited track.

 

[BigPikachu]

Is it true that you can get into basic training immediately after internship, then after you finish basic training in a few years, you have to wait a few years before an advanced training spot opens and in total it would take 10+ years to become a specialist?

It largely depends on the specialty you choose to pursue. All specialty training programs require you to meet pre-resequites and pass entrance assessments prior to enrolling as an accredited registrar. Most require and prefer if you have done a couple more years in addition to internship prior to enrolment so that you gain more experience prior to applying for specialty training. Getting accepted for specialty training is also highly competitive and training positions are limited, especially amongst the surgical specialties but even increasingly now with the physician specialties, and dare I say with general practice & family medicine. Notwithstanding once you're training, you need to pass all the in-training assessments and examinations to progress from basic to advanced phase (which is about mid-way in the program), and depending on the specialty, this could be anyway from 3 years (for something like GP/FM) or 5-7 years (for Surg/Physicians). No easy way of saying it: It's a long road, but once you get there it's worth it.

I've written a Wikipedia page about Medical Education in Australia: Medical education in Australia - Wikipedia. Otherwise more detailed information is available directly from the Specialty College websites (e.g. RACGP, RACP, RACS, etc.).

Good luck!

 

[bzora]

I work at the University of Tasmania School of Medicine, and can confirm that we have a 100% success rate in our graduates securing an internship spot, and this includes all of our international students.