international students

[Abhishek]

Hi,
I was wondering if you guys know what are the chances of an international student getting in and if there is any financial help like student loans etc. that international students going for MD can get. i'm currently in my premed program in NY and ewryday the chance of me getting some financial assistance seems bleeker. also, what score on MCAT do you guys think is good enough to get in an above average college.

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[leorl]

This is the kind of thing you might need to research and ask questions about yourself. For instance, competitive factors depend on how many international spots your school of interest might allot. Ask the college that, ask what their rates of USLME passes are, how many students transfer to US medical schools, etc etc etc. I'd say it's fairly competitive. I want to apply to australia. At Univ. of Melbourne, they only accept 10 students out of all international applicants. At Flinders, I think it's higher..40? but still, it's very competitive.

You can get financial help, you are eligible for loans. It might help for you to try to look for a book for foreign med schools - it tells you exactly what you're eligible for (perkins? not sure, but there are loans). Some schools offer international students scholarships. Some US programs give scholarships for study abroad.

As far as MCAT score, dunno. You at least have to get the minimum average (considered 8 on each section), but that's required. That doesn't mean that if you have 8's you'll get in. Usually, they give first priority in interviews to those with higher mcat scores and grades.

 

[Jony]

Hey leorl! I hear you want to apply to universities in Australia... personally, i would not advise you to do that if you're serious about getting an excellent med education. I have applied at uni. of Melbourne and got a seat in their course starting february 2002, but i am not considering it as an option. the only australian uni that can be compared to other world-class universities is uni of Melbourne. I know someone who graduated from there in Med and , well, he told me that the degree did not have much "weight" in Australia itself, not to talk about the US or Europe! I seriously doubt the quality of med education in Australia, it does not really suit above-average students... but this is what I believe, you may or may not agree.

 

[tidy_kiwi]

Boy Jony - you had better not let Dr. Cox catch you talking like that!!!

When did your friend graduate? I mean - the course has only been running since 1996 or so, therefore the first graduating classes should still be in residency. Perhaps your friend is finding it difficult footing it with the US grads due to the different systems in the two countries. It irks me that some people (not all) seem to think that everything needs to relate back to the USofA. Why would an AUSTRALIAN medical school cater to US style medical education. Did your friend stay in Oz following graduation? I would wager that if they went through the entire Australian system from med school to specialisation they would have recieved a more than adequate education. AS to the degree not having much weight within Australia itself - while I doubt the validity of this statement, I would put it down to the fact that only the first groups of graduates are actually out working in the hospitals so how could anyone really rate it fairly yet?

Leorl - I wouldn't let the above post put you off Australia as an option. Jony is probably just sore that the Ozzies thumped you guys in the world swimming champs and put on THE BEST OLYMPIC GAMES EVER!!!. Seriously tho - you should talk to Dr Cox - she will be able to give you a better indication of how Australian graduates stack up in US residency programs. Good luck and let us know how u get on.

GO ANZAC!!!!

 

[Abhishek]

Thanks guys for your input. i know that a 32 MCATscore is like minimum that we need to get in, although there is no set standard. i will look into that. BTW, Australian schools are pretty alright, i have a friend in the Melorne school but i hear it's not very difficult to get in though.

 

[leorl]

Thanks kiwi! Okay, Jony...thanks for your opinion but after all my hard work and researching to find out the univ. of melb was a great school with a good rep., that was scary. I've talked to the dean of my college here (Case western reserve U), and she absolutely loves Melbourne, and she thinks it's a brilliant school. Others have graduated from Australian schools and placed fine in good residencies. So maybe your friend was disgruntled for other reasons? The sporting mindset of Oz really appeals to me, and kiwi is right. One of the reasons I WANT to study in Australia is to immerse myself in other cultures and get Away from the US thinking. US is a great country and there's so many opportunities here, but at the same time it's so limiting.

The degree probably does carry weight...I mean, a doctor's degree anywhere carries weight! MBBS is the same degree that the undergrad meds get, so how can it be different in the grad entry program?

*sigh* Thanks for the opinions all. Abhishek, it's not difficult for internationals to get in? well...YAYAY

Maybe you don't NEED an MCAT of 32, but I say the higher, the better getting loans and financial assistance for studying abroad may have its perks, but don't run wild. You can get loans for med schools here, it just depends what kind of school you want to go to. State schools may cost around 9-13,000, whereas private schools 30,000. Yeesh.

 

[wmg]

Jony - where did you get your info? Your "freind" was feeding you a line if they told you a degree form Melbourne doesn't carry much weight in Australia. That is absurd. All medical schools in Australia are accredited by a body equivalent to the LCME and are seen as equivalent to the US MD programs here in the states and elsewhere. It is patently false that one must stay in the US to recieve an excellent medical education. In many ways I consider the opportunity to study abroad an advantage and that it will actually help me get a good residency. Besides, compared to what I would have paid at a private school/DO school (I was turned down by my state school), I will save a fortune studying in Australia. For whatever it's worth...

 

[tidy_kiwi]

Advance Australia Fair!

Hey wmg - have you heard about flinders yet?

Leorl if you like playing or even sports then Oz is the place for you - they have THREE different kinds of football (four if you count soccer as football) and NONE require wimpy pads and helmets. They are the WORLD champions in two of these sporting codes (and by World Champions I mean they play against other countries!!)

You guys will love Oz if you come down under - and if you ever get the chance to fly over to New Zealand you should do so - it is only a 2hr flight btwn the two countries and both have some cool stuff to do.

 

[wmg]

Kiwi - I begin Flinders in Feb and absolutely thrilled to be back. Have a sister in Christchurch and a brother in Sydney so I reckon I'll get around a fair bit. Are you in school in NZ? I appreciate all your posts.

 

[tidy_kiwi]

wmg - I am currently working in NZ (I finished uni last year) for a genomics company. I have applied to Queensland uni for entry next yr (feb 2002).

Congrats on getting in to Flinders! I was going to apply there but decided that Qld was better for me for family reasons. Flinders is an excellent school and you will absolutely love the australian lifestyle!!

Good luck for next year!!

 

[leorl]

Thanks for all the news, kiwi! Yeah, definitely interested in Rugby...i've been meaning to play for the last four years, but no go. Actually, I'm big into rowing which is great down there too Good luck for Queensland. Maybe soon enough the boards will have people in the 4 uni's. Wmg at flinders, kiwi at queensland, me at melbourne....who's the taker for sydney?

 

[KungFuMaster]

University of Melbourne is substandard??!!!! WHAT?!! It's probably more prestigious than 80% of the medical schools in the U.S.

People seriously don't know what they are talking about in this forum.

 

[tidy_kiwi]

Well actually only one person said it was sub-standard (and that was second-hand too).

The University of Melbourne is one of the most prestigious Universities in the Asia-Pacific region (according to Time) not too sure where the med-school sits in relation to others though.

Melbourne is also the sporting capital of Australasia (but the Warriors gonna whup the Storm on Monday night....)

 

[tidy_kiwi]

Maybe soon enough the boards will have people in the 4 uni's. Wmg at flinders, kiwi at queensland, me at melbourne....who's the taker for sydney?

Hey leorl - looks like KungFuMaster is from Sydney - maybe we have a taker!?

 

[KungFuMaster]

Yes..I will take it. I am in Sydney Uni!! If you have a chance to be trained at Melbourne, GO FOR IT!! You would be stupid to turn that down. I have to use my words carefully here because respect and prestige is too subjective to judge the caliber of a medical school and you can argue all day and reach no conclusion. However, it is an undeniable FACT that there are SO MANY(hardly any exception) graduates of melbourne or Sydney or queensland medical schools have obtained unquestionably prominent positions in american medicine. A few examples; the big oncology guy in ucla(queenslands grad), the heart transplant director guy in duke(melbourne), some big time dermo and plastic at hopkins(sydney), the president of loma linda(sydney)..and a lot more. I AM NOT SAYING that you will become that coming from melbourne...no way. But I think if you have the ability and competence, then the name, "melbourne or sydney or whatever", will NOT prohibit you from becoming the equivalence if you have the ambition.

That's all

KFM

 

[leorl]

YAYAY! All four are covered. Thanks for the info guys and gals. yeah, you'll find that Americans are REALLY ignorant about schools other than US schools, and in fairness to them...they don't really have any reason to look outside the US. I've had to answer so many questions from my mother because her friends all think they know what they're talking about but know ****. One of her friends told her that Melbourne is a backwards city!! well SORRY if it doesn't fit her upper-class elitist Hong kong lifestyle. Anyway, will definitely go for melbourne. Now all i need are good MCAT scores .

Oh, can one of you tell me how much a laptop...or just a good desktop computer costs in Australia nowadays? I love my laptop. But I've only had it for a year, and it just broke. I'm hoping to god it's just a power supply failure, but it could be the whole freakin' motherboard.

 

[Boo_Rad]

how can any self respecting kiwi runn around saying advance australia fair? Especially with the trination decider coming up.

 

[yimfong]

Why not choose the british universities?
Perhaps the biggest single reason for choosing the UK is the disputed quality of the education u will receive here.
In fact, a UK degree is practically a passport to brighter career prospects and higher earnings.
A world-class education, in every sense.

 

[leorl]

Yeah yimfong, but guess what? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ up the freakin' wazzoo for UK schools.

 

[tidy_kiwi]

how can any self respecting kiwi runn around saying advance australia fair? Especially with the trination decider coming up.

Easy since the All Blacks gonna whup some Wallaby butt, especially after the backside paddling we gave to the Boks last night!

I have spent a bit of time in both countries and while I consider myself as a Kiwi, if NZ aren't in the running I support Australia second - the whole ANZAC comraderie (?sp) thing - for example I supported Oz during the Lions tour but support the Warriors in the NRL. You from NZ or OZ Boo_Rad?

Besides if Oz were no good at anything, us Kiwis would have no competition in the world.

NB. Give the ball to Jonah.

 

[Boo_Rad]

Originally posted by tidy_kiwi:
tidy kiwi-

id rather hear that you too waited up until the early hrs of the mornig last week just to see england take aus apart in the 4th test.

nevertheless its good to hear that your allegiance lies on the appropriate side of the tasman.

 

[Nurse2Doc]

Can any of you Aussies give me some info on Americans working there? It has been brought to my attention that Austrailia has strict rules about foreigners working. Will my hubby be able to get a job other than cleaning toilets??? (He is an irrigation contractor and also retired Navy) I am a nurse and would like to pull a shift here and there as well, but have been told that the only work permitted by non-Aussies is that which cannot be filled by an Austrailian native. Are there any loopholes? How close is Adelaid to an American embassy (or any American affiliation where he might be eligible to work) Any direct input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[wmg]

Hi Nurse. The way I understand it (from Flinders University, Adelaide + the Australain Consulate here in LA) spouses are eligible to work up to forty hours per week during the duration of the spousal student visa. There is an office at Flinders, linked through Int' student page, that assists Int'l students with issues like these although having not begun the course yet, I cannot comment. I don't believe there are many nations represented in Adelaide with consular offices. Good Luck!

 

[Nurse2Doc]

Thanks WMG! As always, best of luck in your endeavors.