International - will be green card holder in a few years - should I wait?

[idonutknow]

Hi there,

I have been on SDN for a long time, never posted anything, but read probably almost all threads about international applicants and I understand the ~10% admission rate, no financial aid, limited number schools that take internationals, higher academic expectation, ethnicity background, etc.. I also understand that schools that actually take internationals are usually top ones.

But I still have some questions.

I should most likely be a green card holder two years after college. I can either choose to apply as international, or wait for two years for the green card and apply as a green card holder. I understand that getting a green card will significantly improve the chance. But it is not granted--it could take longer than 2 years, and there's small but some chance that I might not be able to get it--and I am not sure if I should count on it/wait for it.

Should I still apply? Should I wait? Should I apply every single year until I get a green card? Should I do something else to make these 2 gap years worthy?

I am right now a sophomore (raising junior) majoring in Neuroscience and in a top university with really strong and cutthroat pre-med program, and I have a 3.9+ GPA (hopefully I can keep it for the rest of my college), full-load/overload every semester, lots of volunteer (350+ by now, half clinical half non-clinical), research (1 year in lab so far, funding, posters, presentation, no publication yet), shadowing(3 doctors, 100+ by now), on-campus job and several hobbies (I like art a lot and have my personal portfolio). Leadership is my weakness and I have been working on that.

If I do not apply for med school right after college and choose to wait for the green card, any suggestion about what I should do during those two years?

I love research and am right now thinking about MD/PhD program. Technically I can do PhD first and come back for MD...but it's kind of too long before getting into medicine.

I can do a master, but it's kind of pointless...

I can work as a research assistant. The problem of getting a job is that right now I am holding the student visa and it only allows me to work for at most 3 years. If I cannot get my green card by then, I will have to go back, thus going to school instead of work might be a safer choice. Also I love school.

It has been a lot of things going on and I really don't know how to choose. It might be too early to think about it but if I hope to get into med school/graduate school/research institute right after college, I need to start preparing now and throughout my junior year.

Would you guys please give me some suggestions?

I would really really do appreciate it.

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[efle]

Your ECs are in order, and if you're holding a 3.9+ at somewhere like WashU or Hopkins or Berkeley, you will probably do extremely well on the MCAT. You have all the makings of a successful international applicant so far. I'd say plan to apply as an international and if it doesn't work out, then hold of on the second attempt until you gain the green card.

 

[idonutknow]

Your ECs are in order, and if you're holding a 3.9+ at somewhere like WashU or Hopkins or Berkeley, you will probably do extremely well on the MCAT. You have all the makings of a successful international applicant so far. I'd say plan to apply as an international and if it doesn't work out, then hold of on the second attempt until you gain the green card.

Thank you! Any suggestion about what kind of med schools I should aim at? Only 60+ take internationals but that's still a lot. I feel clueless...

 

[efle]

Thank you! Any suggestion about what kind of med schools I should aim at? Only 60+ take internationals but that's still a lot. I feel clueless...

You need an MCAT score before this can be answered in the slightest

 

[idonutknow]

You need an MCAT score before this can be answered in the slightest

I see. Thank you anyways. Maybe I will come back one year later with my scores.

 

[Gibbward]

As a former international student that got a green card ~2 years after a graduated, I understand your struggle. Now, if you have a great GPA and MCAT, and have great ECs by the time you're a junior, I definitely wouldn't hesitate applying. The one thing I would suggest you think about though is if you can even afford to attend the medical school you get accepted at if you don't get your green card in time. Some schools require that you have 1-4 years worth of tuition in some bank account before they'll let you attend. I certainly didn't have $200K just lying around in a bank account so I didn't even think about applying.

When it comes to what you should do if you did try to stay in the US while waiting for your green card, you could try to do your OPT somewhere, but a lot of research assistant positions require that you have working visas and an employment authorization document for you to get hired and I don't know if they will take OPT students so maybe ask about that.

Another things that I've seen an international student do is he did an SMP for the school he was accepted at. I think the school guarantees interviews to the top students of that SMP so that definitely gave him a leg up even if he's an international student.

 

[idonutknow]

As a former international student that got a green card ~2 years after a graduated, I understand your struggle. Now, if you have a great GPA and MCAT, and have great ECs by the time you're a junior, I definitely wouldn't hesitate applying. The one thing I would suggest you think about though is if you can even afford to attend the medical school you get accepted at if you don't get your green card in time. Some schools require that you have 1-4 years worth of tuition in some bank account before they'll let you attend. I certainly didn't have $200K just lying around in a bank account so I didn't even think about applying.

When it comes to what you should do if you did try to stay in the US while waiting for your green card, you could try to do your OPT somewhere, but a lot of research assistant positions require that you have working visas and an employment authorization document for you to get hired and I don't know if they will take OPT students so maybe ask about that.

Another things that I've seen an international student do is he did an SMP for the school he was accepted at. I think the school guarantees interviews to the top students of that SMP so that definitely gave him a leg up even if he's an international student.

I definitely thought about SMP but I don't think it would work for me. Tuition is a struggle, and I have discussed with my family a lot about it, and fortunately they are all very very supportive (I feel grateful). I think I can work without a working visa as a research assistant, just with the OPT and OPT extension that come along with my student visa. That's why I can work at most for 3 years. Maybe I'll try to apply right after college, see what I can get, and go from there. It seems that I just need to apply to every possibility (work/school/med school).

 

[Gibbward]

I definitely thought about SMP but I don't think it would work for me. Tuition is a struggle, and I have discussed with my family a lot about it, and fortunately they are all very very supportive (I feel grateful). I think I can work without a working visa as a research assistant, just with the OPT and OPT extension that come along with my student visa. That's why I can work at most for 3 years. Maybe I'll try to apply right after college, see what I can get, and go from there. It seems that I just need to apply to every possibility (work/school/med school).

Right I think you can work with your OPT as long as it's completely in line with your major, but I didn't do an OPT so I don't know the ins and outs of applying for a job with just the OPT. If I remember correctly too (though you should look it up for yourself), I think even unpaid work is fine for you to maintain your OPT status, so if that's true, that'll at least give you a bit more flexibility with your job prospects (that is if you'd be okay with not making money and just living at home or something like that).

 

[idonutknow]

Right I think you can work with your OPT as long as it's completely in line with your major, but I didn't do an OPT so I don't know the ins and outs of applying for a job with just the OPT. If I remember correctly too (though you should look it up for yourself), I think even unpaid work is fine for you to maintain your OPT status, so if that's true, that'll at least give you a bit more flexibility with your job prospects (that is if you'd be okay with not making money and just living at home or something like that).

Unpaid work is definitely fine as long as I can maintain my OPT status. I think I will reach out to my school in my senior year and get a position as a research assistant or something like that. The payment will be more like a bonus to me. Definitely gonna try to find a way to make good use of those two years and don't wanna appear as if I'm just drifting around.

 

[SDeduN]

Being a non-Canadian international student that is Fortunate to have gained acceptance to an MD for this upcoming fall, I know where you're coming from. Being that we always have to take immigration into account, it might never be too early to start considering these things. So well done you! The whole immigration system seems to get slightly more convoluted every day, so always be vigilant, if you will. Not trying to incite any fear at all, just stay as informed as you can as you approach your graduation. Just keep one foot in front of the other, like you're doing, and you'll be fine. In the hopes that it helps you, I'll give you an overview of my path: finished US undergrad 5 years ago - > OPT + a few post-bac courses -> STEM Extension + a few post-bac courses-> Completed a Master's grad program in 2015 -> OPT again (you are eligible for OPT after every new degree level) -> Short use of STEM extension again -> Med school this upcoming fall.

As you can see I've had a little bit of an extended journey to get to this point but I'm very grateful for it because those "gap" years were good years of personal growth for me, if not also in other areas of my life. The post-bac courses + grad program were important for me because my undergrad performance wasn't the best. On OPT you can get unpaid work/volunteer for at least 20 hours a week I believe, to not be violating it. You can accrue a certain number of days out of work, volunteer or paid. On STEM extension, however, (which is the 24 month extension of the 1-year of OPT) I believe requirements recently changed that you must have paid work. Also I believe your employment must also be within your degree's field of study and must be with what is called an E-Verify employer. I'm just running off my memory here so please confirm all these OPT/STEM requirements and deadline details with your school's international center/office. They will guide you best.

All that said, I was never in a potential green card situation like you. Based on my experience, I would take those "gap" years regardless. There's no rush to medical school and you'd be surprised how much you can grow in those few years. For example: Maybe expand your volunteering (at least during the OPT year; I volunteered a lot more at a hospital). Find work in a clinical/lab research setting (which I was lucky to find and really enjoyed). Take your time to prepare for the MCAT and defeat it (which I took only once a few months after my grad program and ~2 months of dedicated prep; I can say the grad program actually helped me with the MCAT more than I would have realized). You seem to be set with regards to your GPA, so maybe aside from 1 or 2 post-bac courses to keep your educational mind from atrophying if possible, in your position I wouldn't bother with an SMP/grad program/post bac. I was even blessed to lose about 30-40 lbs in those years, learning more about personal nutrition and exercising than I would have otherwise. Again, no rush. You iz young ! If after those two years, the green card works out, then go for it before applying to medical school. If it doesn't work out, then you apply anyways having set yourself up as best as you can to be a successful applicant, while hopefully learning a bit about yourself along the way. Being able to pay for medical school is also another thing to factor into your timeline as well, esp if you remain an international student without loans nor big scholarship offers.

With regards to deciding which schools to apply to down the road, like @efle said, know your MCAT score first before even making a list. You have a while before even getting to that point. But like you said, there are about 60+ MD schools that even look at international students. The negatives are that it's a much smaller number than is available for the typical US applicant. However, the advantage is that you have a manageable number to go through in selecting which to apply to. What I did, was actually review almost every single one of those ~60 schools on MSAR and via their respective school web pages. Try and make your list as deliberate a selection as you can, to an extent. Of course take into account how you compare stat wise, look at the school's mission and educational ethos/curriculum (they all vary a little bit), consider location to a lesser degree and try your best to get a feel for the schools and whether you can see yourself there (the latter is of course not so easy). Also, APPLY BROADLY. Can't say that enough. Although our list of 60+ schools can seem top-heavy, try to spread it out as best you can. I applied to 14 MD schools (and 3 DOs very late). However with all 14, I had a good feeling I'd be happy attending because I did my best to give my review due diligence. At the end of the day: only got 1 II, only attended 1 interview and got that one acceptance. Couldn't be more grateful.

As an international student looking at medical school, the numbers are more stacked against you but remember, it is doable. I'm Blessed to be an example of that and you can too. You're doing great IMO. Keep at it! Hope all my wall of text helps you even a little bit. Best of Luck!

 

[idonutknow]

Being a non-Canadian international student that is Fortunate to have gained acceptance to an MD for this upcoming fall, I know where you're coming from. Being that we always have to take immigration into account, it might never be too early to start considering these things. So well done you! The whole immigration system seems to get slightly more convoluted every day, so always be vigilant, if you will. Not trying to incite any fear at all, just stay as informed as you can as you approach your graduation. Just keep one foot in front of the other, like you're doing, and you'll be fine. In the hopes that it helps you, I'll give you an overview of my path: finished US undergrad 5 years ago - > OPT + a few post-bac courses -> STEM Extension + a few post-bac courses-> Completed a Master's grad program in 2015 -> OPT again (you are eligible for OPT after every new degree level) -> Short use of STEM extension again -> Med school this upcoming fall.

As you can see I've had a little bit of an extended journey to get to this point but I'm very grateful for it because those "gap" years were good years of personal growth for me, if not also in other areas of my life. The post-bac courses + grad program were important for me because my undergrad performance wasn't the best. On OPT you can get unpaid work/volunteer for at least 20 hours a week I believe, to not be violating it. You can accrue a certain number of days out of work, volunteer or paid. On STEM extension, however, (which is the 24 month extension of the 1-year of OPT) I believe requirements recently changed that you must have paid work. Also I believe your employment must also be within your degree's field of study and must be with what is called an E-Verify employer. I'm just running off my memory here so please confirm all these OPT/STEM requirements and deadline details with your school's international center/office. They will guide you best.

All that said, I was never in a potential green card situation like you. Based on my experience, I would take those "gap" years regardless. There's no rush to medical school and you'd be surprised how much you can grow in those few years. For example: Maybe expand your volunteering (at least during the OPT year; I volunteered a lot more at a hospital). Find work in a clinical/lab research setting (which I was lucky to find and really enjoyed). Take your time to prepare for the MCAT and defeat it (which I took only once a few months after my grad program and ~2 months of dedicated prep; I can say the grad program actually helped me with the MCAT more than I would have realized). You seem to be set with regards to your GPA, so maybe aside from 1 or 2 post-bac courses to keep your educational mind from atrophying if possible, in your position I wouldn't bother with an SMP/grad program/post bac. I was even blessed to lose about 30-40 lbs in those years, learning more about personal nutrition and exercising than I would have otherwise. Again, no rush. You iz young ! If after those two years, the green card works out, then go for it before applying to medical school. If it doesn't work out, then you apply anyways having set yourself up as best as you can to be a successful applicant, while hopefully learning a bit about yourself along the way. Being able to pay for medical school is also another thing to factor into your timeline as well, esp if you remain an international student without loans nor big scholarship offers.

With regards to deciding which schools to apply to down the road, like @efle said, know your MCAT score first before even making a list. You have a while before even getting to that point. But like you said, there are about 60+ MD schools that even look at international students. The negatives are that it's a much smaller number than is available for the typical US applicant. However, the advantage is that you have a manageable number to go through in selecting which to apply to. What I did, was actually review almost every single one of those ~60 schools on MSAR and via their respective school web pages. Try and make your list as deliberate a selection as you can, to an extent. Of course take into account how you compare stat wise, look at the school's mission and educational ethos/curriculum (they all vary a little bit), consider location to a lesser degree and try your best to get a feel for the schools and whether you can see yourself there (the latter is of course not so easy). Also, APPLY BROADLY. Can't say that enough. Although our list of 60+ schools can seem top-heavy, try to spread it out as best you can. I applied to 14 MD schools (and 3 DOs very late). However with all 14, I had a good feeling I'd be happy attending because I did my best to give my review due diligence. At the end of the day: only got 1 II, only attended 1 interview and got that one acceptance. Couldn't be more grateful.

As an international student looking at medical school, the numbers are more stacked against you but remember, it is doable. I'm Blessed to be an example of that and you can too. You're doing great IMO. Keep at it! Hope all my wall of text helps you even a little bit. Best of Luck!

Thank you so much! What an inspirational story! I'll try my best!


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