Interviewing at AOA residencies but not ranking?

[serimeri]

Hi,
back in september, I was in a very poor state with my comlex scores so i had to apply to a bunch of programs and went to aoa interviews (3). i have about 8 ACGME interviews and i think i will not rank anybody in the aoa match and just take my chances on the acgme match.

has anyone done this in the past? do you regret it?

thanks in advance

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[babdoc]

What specialty?

 

[Bacchus]

People do this. However, if you're applying to a very competitive specialty I wouldn't recommend it. Also, make sure programs you're applying to will take DOs through the ACGME match and don't show preference to the MDs applying to that match.

 

[serimeri]

People do this. However, if you're applying to a very competitive specialty I wouldn't recommend it. Also, make sure programs you're applying to will take DOs through the ACGME match and don't show preference to the MDs applying to that match.

I'm applying Psych IM & FM.

 

[serimeri]

Also, let's say if I do the rank, I'm just curious, how many places one would need to interview to match?

For MD students I think they have an 80% chance if they rank/interview at 4. How about for DO students doing AOA match? Anyone have any statistics?

 

[costales]

If you're casting a wide net, I'd say you should go to as many as you can afford.

 

[hallowmann]

Also, let's say if I do the rank, I'm just curious, how many places one would need to interview to match?

For MD students I think they have an 80% chance if they rank/interview at 4. How about for DO students doing AOA match? Anyone have any statistics?

The only statistics available for ACGME are for independant applicants which groups DOs and IMGs together in the same group, of which IMGs make the vast majority. From what I've heard, 10-12 ranks is usually sufficient for a match (mid-high 90s match rate). For MDs, 4 contiguous ranks in Psych offers 90% match rate. For independent applicants 8 contiguous ranks offers a 75% match rate.

For the AOA match, it's not nearly as detailed and the most recent match report is from 2012. That said, for psych for people that matched in first designation, their mean number of contiguous ranks is 2. Honestly though, it's hard to say concrete things about the AOA match given that some people only rank the most competitive programs in it, keeping ACGME as backup.

If you are going to go only ACGME, I'd go to every interview and rank every place you'd be ok going to (ideally all of them). Also check and see how many DOs they take every year. If all the programs take at least a few DOs consistently, that'll probably be a good sign.

 

[babdoc]

Yeah...you have to take those statistics with a grain of salt. That's for the entire interviewing population. Use that in conjunction with your stats. For instance, if you're at the top of the bell curve, you probably need fewer than the average. If you're at the bottom of the curve, you'll need more

 

[serimeri]

Yeah...you have to take those statistics with a grain of salt. That's for the entire interviewing population. Use that in conjunction with your stats. For instance, if you're at the top of the bell curve, you probably need fewer than the average. If you're at the bottom of the curve, you'll need more

thanks, i think im getting more acgme interviews but you never know.

my friend brought up an interesting point though, that a lot of the newer resident friendly guidelines (cap on work week, supervision etc.) are not always applicable to aoa sites. i just dont think i will get good training at the place where I am interested in.

 

[babdoc]

Ask the PD or interviewer these questions or a faculty member or advisor at your school. I'm not entirely sure that what your friend told you is correct. As far as I understand from my friends in AOA residencies, there is, for instance, a work week hour limit. Do some digging to verify what you hear.

 

[hallowmann]

Ask the PD or interviewer this questions or a faculty member or advisor at your school. I'm not entirely sure that what your friend told you is correct. As far as I understand from my friends in AOA residencies, there is, for instance, a work week hour limit. Do some digging to verify what you hear.

There absolutely are the same work hour limits for all residents (with the exception of 1 or 2 surgical fields). Now whether the program will follow the limits or expect residents to cook their time sheets is a completely other thing, and that happens at both ACGME and AOA programs.

Supervision, organization, faculty-resident structure, etc. actually may vary between ACGME and AOA programs. That said, don't fool yourself. Whether it's AOA or ACGME, the program has vastly more power than the resident in the situation.

 

[as90]

violating work hours happens all the time in all residencies. like the person above me indicates, just put your head down as the program has all the power in this situation.

also, as one of my attendings once told me, don't think about reporting the program, as it does more harm to you in the long run. for instance, you report the program, it looses its accreditation, and you and your colleagues are without a job for the next X number of years.