Involuntary separation from military

[rvnner]

.If an intern or resident is given extra time beyond the normal year to complete an internship or residency year and does not succeed in making up the failed or missed rotations during that extra time, will the military move to separate him from the service or force that doctor to serve in some non-medical capacity his remaining years of obligation? If the above situation were to ensue, would that intern or resident have any choice as to whether to leave the military or serve his obligation in some other role and unit? Or would any other options be offered?
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. I guess I'm looking at the glass half-empty, pessimistic view at the moment, considering the worst case scenario. Thanks for the help..

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[Gastrapathy]

Big distinction between finishing internship and residency. After internship, you are able to be a licensed physician and can finish your time as a GMO or reapply to another residency after dismissal.

Failing to complete internship (which is probably the relevant scenario, if I had to guess) is more of a crapshoot. Its a fairly rare situation. The last one I'm aware of worked in the clinical investigations department for a while. Not sure how long or what happened after that. Try to finish. Show no weakness, ignore anything you perceive as unfair and stick with the rotations. The military has a vested interest in getting you through intern year.

 

[DrMetal]

.If an intern or resident .

Well, which is it in your case? If you're failing out of PGY1--meaning you're not going to take Step 3 and complete your licensure--then you certainly can't practice any further (not even as a GMO). In that case, I would think the military would have to employ you in some non-medical capacity (maybe an administrative job).

If you're >PGY2 in some program, you could possibly serve your time out as a GMO, or maybe seek admittance into a different program (Preventive Medicine seems to be the haven for lost souls!). I have a friend that was in this boat; if you're Navy by any chance and would like, PM me and I can put you in touch with him.

 

[IlDestriero]

I had an intern in my class washout. He was given some remedial time and was still was untrainable. He was put in a MSC job for a few months and than was transferred somewhere really bad to finish out his commitment. I can't remember where, but I remember thinking that it was really going to suck to be him. Camp Lejune? He was a nice guy, just a really awful physician.
You don't want to be that guy. His poor judgment, carelessness and recklessness actually hurt people. He was never going to pass his USMLE. If this sounds like you, just get out of medicine.

 

[IgD]

I guess I'm looking at the glass half-empty, pessimistic view at the moment, considering the worst case scenario. Thanks for the help.

I did a medicine internship and found it to be a stressful time. Just when I got comfortable with a rotation, the rug got yanked out from under me and we had to start a new rotation. I would say tell us some more about what you are going through. When you are an intern, you've got hardly any experience and your skills are rough. Pretty much anything can be remediated with time, patience and careful attention.

 

[i want out]

.If an intern or resident is given extra time beyond the normal year to complete an internship or residency year and does not succeed in making up the failed or missed rotations during that extra time, will the military move to separate him from the service or force that doctor to serve in some non-medical capacity his remaining years of obligation? If the above situation were to ensue, would that intern or resident have any choice as to whether to leave the military or serve his obligation in some other role and unit? Or would any other options be offered?
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. I guess I'm looking at the glass half-empty, pessimistic view at the moment, considering the worst case scenario. Thanks for the help..

I saw a GMO show up at my second duty station (stateside Clinic) after reportedly taking an extra six months to finish internship.

this person was then assigned their own full pt schedule like all the rest of us, and just had an FP accross the hall to "supervise" them. The FP also had a full load of patients, so I didn't see much supervision going on.

wasn't to long until this new GMO was sent on an IA deployment where I am fairly certain the supervision was going to be even less.

As far as the .mil is concerned, the up side to sending them on deployment is twofold, you get to take them out of seeing pts that the Feres doctrine doesn't apply to, and you get to deploy somebody to fill a billet.


Ultimately in regards to your original question, the .mil all branches need physicians badly, and they have invested a lot of money in you. They are going to go to great lengths to make you functional as a physician, even if it is only marginally functional.

The hard part, is whether you are dangerous or not. If you are dangerous, and you know it, something can be done about it. If your supervisors are telling you that your dangerous, and you don't see it, then you need to start looking for what they are talking about, because your about to find yourself in a deployment with little or no backup and some poor active duty sucker is going to be depending on you to take care of them.

Ultimately you have to look at yourself in the mirror for the rest of your life, and you will find that during residency (which seems like a long way off right now, but really isn't) you will recall some of your decisions as a GMO, and realize that you made a bad call, and would have done something differently if you had been residency trained. For the sake of your mental health, I hope those decisions won't harm anybody.

So, do some soul searching and decide where you stand.

Good Luck,

i want out

 

[AF M4]

.If an intern or resident is given extra time beyond the normal year to complete an internship or residency year and does not succeed in making up the failed or missed rotations during that extra time, will the military move to separate him from the service or force that doctor to serve in some non-medical capacity his remaining years of obligation? If the above situation were to ensue, would that intern or resident have any choice as to whether to leave the military or serve his obligation in some other role and unit? Or would any other options be offered?
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. I guess I'm looking at the glass half-empty, pessimistic view at the moment, considering the worst case scenario. Thanks for the help..

The .mil will get something out of you; if it were as painless as an involuntary separation for flunking intern year then every soon to be GMO in my class would have simply spent their elective months sitting on the beach and daring the .mil to let them out of their contracts.

 

[pgg]

I had a med school classmate who graduated a couple months late, then had some problems with internship and didn't finish. They gave him some MSC admin job to serve out his USUHS commitment.

 

[Jet915]

I knew of 3 peeps in my intern class who didn't finish on time. 2 of them had to take a couple extra months. Another got 3 shots to pass Step III and did it on the 3rd try . Not sure where he is right now but they will definitely work w/you to atleast get your internship completed so that they can GMO you.

 

[colbgw02]

A women where I work didn't make it through internship and was given a MSC job as well, but she was busted down to 2LT after spending the year as a CPT. Ouch.

 

[IgD]

A women where I work didn't make it through internship and was given a MSC job as well, but she was busted down to 2LT after spending the year as a CPT. Ouch.

I don't think you can get busted down as an officer. How is that possible??

 

[AF M4]

I don't think you can get busted down as an officer. How is that possible??

Sure it's possible. It happened to Jessica Biel in the A-Team. If it can happen to her it can happen to anyone.

I love it when a plan comes together.

 

[backrow]

I don't think you can get busted down as an officer. How is that possible??

You are correct. Officers cannot be demoted. Now the possibility exists that when they recommissioned her into MSC they made her a 2LT again.

This is what happens when prior officers go HPSP/USUHS, you resign one commission and are recommissioned as an O-1.

 

[bustbones26]

.If an intern or resident is given extra time beyond the normal year to complete an internship or residency year and does not succeed in making up the failed or missed rotations during that extra time, will the military move to separate him from the service or force that doctor to serve in some non-medical capacity his remaining years of obligation? If the above situation were to ensue, would that intern or resident have any choice as to whether to leave the military or serve his obligation in some other role and unit? Or would any other options be offered?
.
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. I guess I'm looking at the glass half-empty, pessimistic view at the moment, considering the worst case scenario. Thanks for the help..

We can all tell stories of those who had difficulties in medical school and were placed into MSC to pay back their obligation. I would suspect that if you don't finish internship, the same would happen.

However, keep in mind, if you get through internship, so long as you pass step III of our boards, you are eligible for a license, thus can do GMO.

 

[Apollyon]

When I interviewed at USUHS all those years ago, there was a fellow interviewing the same day that had an interesting rig: he had aviator wings, but was an ensign with the MSC. Turns out he had been O-3, flying, and had suffered the total loss of...3 aircraft. 100% loss x3. He got redesignated from line to staff corps, and busted down to O-1 from O-3. He was sent to MSC, and allowed to apply for med school. That was 18 years ago, so I don't recall what he actually did with the MSC.

 

[RangerDoc]

.If an intern or resident is given extra time beyond the normal year to complete an internship or residency year and does not succeed in making up the failed or missed rotations during that extra time, will the military move to separate him from the service or force that doctor to serve in some non-medical capacity his remaining years of obligation? If the above situation were to ensue, would that intern or resident have any choice as to whether to leave the military or serve his obligation in some other role and unit? Or would any other options be offered?
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. I guess I'm looking at the glass half-empty, pessimistic view at the moment, considering the worst case scenario. Thanks for the help..

I wouldnt throw up the white flag yet- from the looks of it, you just joined SDN, and youre still a med student. So, barring a major illness which would get you chaptered out, your prospects should be pretty good. I suspect you may have had some issues during med school so far? But the bottom line is to look at the fact that when you leave your institution with an MD, passed Step I and II, this means that you probably have the knowledge and hopefully skills to treat patients without seriously injuring someone. Of course, learning never ends and we all must learn and perform at increasing levels of competence, but you seem to have a level of introspection to indentify that you may struggle. If it all possible use this to see what any past issues may have been and how you can correct them.

There will always be people who struggle and then end up doing fine and others who are "encouraged" with push out the door to try something else. Either way, work hard, dont dwell on fear, and drive on. Good Luck.