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sluequee

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Hi,

I've received acceptances from UCD and RCSI so far, and I spoke with Peter Nealon today and he said that Trinity should have their list out by Friday.

Hope that helps and good luck to all!
 

r3kapur

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Hey all,

Well I emailed AB and it turns out I've been accepted at Trinity. I'm excited only because if I were to go to Ireland this would be my first choice. I visited Trinity while on exchange in the fall in the UK and the environment was really great.

I'm canadian... and my biggest worry is what to do afterward and how I'll finance it all. I wouldn't want to graduate and then be in a situation where I wouldn't be able to pay off the debt. I worry also about getting back into the states since really Canada is so hard and I also don't know where my other options would be to practice.

Anybody who can answer these questions (realizing that I am canadian)... it would be great to hear from you!

Cheers.
 

sluequee

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Hi!

Congrats on your acceptance to Trinity! I'll be heading off to UCD in Sept, so we may run into each other!

As for how difficult it is to get a residency... I have spoken to the ABP and they have also sent some notes saying 100% of graduates who apply for a residency spot in the US get them, and I'm sure you know that this isn't the case for Canada. However, right now Manitoba and Newfoundland have programs to integrate IMG's as fast as possible, and other provinces are supposedly trying to follow suit. Now, I'm also looking at these moves with cautious skepticism, as we know what a touchy subject health care spending is in our lovely homeland. It also depends on how much you have your heart set on a specific specialty, for example, I've heard that dermatology is just about out of the question, since it's so competitive to get in, but many other residencies you should have a shot at.

As for other options, you could stay in Ireland, go to the UK, Australia. I'm not sure on the exact details of going to the UK or Australia, but considering that the medical education in Ireland is well respected, I'm sure it's not too difficult (but I could be wrong).

As for my plan... it's slightly different. My boyfriend lives in Dublin, so there's a good chance we'll stay in Ireland after I graduate, but we may go to the US or UK as well.

I hope that helps!

PS - Just a note, if you do go to Ireland in Sept, try not to call it the UK!!! Certain Irish people are almost militant about the fact that Ireland is a REPUBLIC... something to do with the constitution of 1927... 32 counties, 26 free... my boyfriend is a lawyer and I get the story on almost a daily basis ;)
 

leorl

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I can't give you specific stats, only anecdotal evidence that there are plenty of Canadians here, and plenty seem to land US residencies. Some have an eye on going back to Canada, but admittedly that's very difficult. Canadians also fare well in obtaining residencies in the UK (which means an in into Australia as well if you so wished).

As far as I know, not too many people run into debt issues either. Considering that many US students are 200 grand in debt by the time they graduate, and manage to pay it off, I think you'll be fine. There are a number of grant/loan programs available but I'm not sure how it works for you guys, being Canadian...you probably will be able to use Canadian loan schemes to pay for education here. It used to be cheaper here to study (relative to US tuition), but keep in mind that the US (and Canadian) have taken a huge hit against the euro so things aren't so good anymore.

Congrats on acceptances :) There seem to be more Canadian meds than US meds here !
 

r3kapur

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Hey!

Actually, I am aware Ireland is not a part of the UK. I was studying in the UK though (Brighton England) and visited Dublin for a few days.

Leorl, after going to Trinity do you see any downfalls to having gone there? Have you done any rotations back in North America? I'm trying to weight the pluses and minuses as we speak and am just trying to put together a list of all the great reasons for an international education... but all the downfalls as well.

You are an invaluable resource. Thanks for being there for all us over here!

Cheers.
 

sluequee

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Hey!

Sorry! After reading your post I realized I read it wrong. What can I say... I've been brainwashed by a hardcore Nationalist!!

Leorl, R3Kapur is right! I really enjoyed reading all of your posts from previous years. I was sad that there haven't been that many since last October. I had a question - is a laptop necessary for school? If you have one, how often do you bring it to school?

Thanks!
 

muelli

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Is the deadline for international applications (+ decisions) at Irish universities really that early?
I applied from Germany, but won't get a decision before August 04, I eventually can change courses until June or so. (Any clue whether I should put rcsi or tcd on top of my choices ?)
 

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Hi,
I have 2 questions:

1. With my stats, barring I bomb te MCAT, would I have a shot at any school in Ireland? I"mf rom the US. 2.98 GPA, 3 research internships in college, 3 years of both research and clinical trials. Community service and leadership extracurriculars.

2. I actually want to start in 2006. It would be great, though, to have a year or so to plan, since it's obviously a big move and I'm bringing my family. Do any Irish schools allow deferrment? Also, for 2005, when should I apply by?

Thanks!
 

leorl

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Hi,

I'll try to answer everything! I'm merely a 3rd year, so haven't done rotations yet (will start next year and start doing electives including some in the US next summer). I'll try to get an upper-year student to post on these forums. From what I've heard, the way we're taught make us a bit better able to diagnose clinical stuff by relying on our own resources and doing a bit of thinking, instead of running a battery of expensive tests. The thing I like about over here is that Ireland doesn't have as many resources and advanced technology as the US, so we learn to work from the basics which is a good thing. I also hear that we do have a bit of catching up to do to get used to the US system, but no one I've heard of has had any problem with it. You might try searching in old threads, there was one recently (I mean sometime in the fall) that addressed some of the cons. I will have to say, sometimes having to get through the inefficiency of things here can be quite frustrating....there's a phrase here "That's so...Irish..." but it can give you practice in being resourceful :).

A laptop isn't necessary, but can be useful. Their broadband/dsl technology is pretty behind ours, so dsl and stuff is only available in certain areas and would be expensive if you paid for it yourself. Dialup sucks ;(. But the computers in Trinity suffice - if you can get one. There can be long queues in high-demand times that can get really annoying. I like having a laptop, but that's cuz I'm so computer dependent (have a digital camera and stuff to download my pictures, do a lot of work on the computer, etc.) Some people who get apartments here actually buy desktops. You won't be given projects and presentations where you have to take your laptop in for powerpoint displays or anything. I don't really bring mine to college. I also have a PDA that I don't really use, so don't bother getting one just for med school (it's nice to keep schedules in and maybe take notes if you've got a keyboard for it, but it rains a bit here I don't feel comfy taking it out in wet weather)

I don't know when the international student application forms are due...the US students have to get them in by November but that's only because that's when AB want them...I don't know when AB sends the lot to the Irish schools. I can try asking.

rgerwin, stats are always hard to tell. In general you should have good enough stats to get into US schools, but at the same time, they don't really take stats to heart. They like to see research though, it seems. They like people who have been involved in things that are a bit unique I think too...but I don't know specific requirements or how different aspects are weighted. Just give it a shot. I don't think they defer, but email Atlantic Bridge and ask for sure. For 2005, you should apply in September - November of 2004.

Hope that helps ;)
 
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muelli

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Just one (probably silly) question:

Is the Irish Bachelor of Medicine equivalent to the American/Canadian MD, i.e. is it accredited as the first medical degree so that you can go immediately into postgrad education/training?
Or is it necessary to do a course for internationally trained docs first (like in dentistry) ?

thanks for your answer(s)!
 

leorl

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The UK MBBS (bachelor of medicine, bachelor of science) and the Irish BM BCh BAO (bachelor of med, surgery and obstetrics) is equivalent to the US MD degree. We are allowed to use the title MD on return to the US for simplicity's sake. It is the first medical degree.

The MD degree here and in the UK is a higher postgraduate degree after the study of medicine, so it's like a PhD for medical graduates. That's my understanding anyway about the UK MD degree anyway.
 

muelli

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Thanks for your answer,

are only the degrees from Ireland and the UK accredited in the US, or, as a consequence of the British & Irish membership in the European Union, all European Medical degrees (from France, Germany, Italy...)?
In the EU, you can nowadays work everywhere as a doc, no matter in which country within the EU you studied medicine.
 

leorl

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Right...I think the primary medical degree in any country (well, EU especially) will be recognized by the US as a US MD degree. But other considerations are taken into play like where you got your degree from, and board/TOEFL scores. Basic medical education is pretty much standard worldwide.

Given that the US and UK and EU systems are very different, those who complete some of residency in the UK or EU will mostly likely have to repeat training (residency) in the US, and vice versa. Those who've done US residencies who want to move to the UK or Europe will probably have to repeat training as well.
 

Kaptain Krunch

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From what I've heard, the way we're taught make us a bit better able to diagnose clinical stuff by relying on our own resources and doing a bit of thinking, instead of running a battery of expensive tests.

If you're ever asked how you would investigate something in an exam, you have to start with "After a full history and complete examination, I would.......". If you start off with investigations, they'll screw you for marks. And be prepared to justify the tests afterwards.
 

r3kapur

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To anybody at Trinity,

What is the timeline for the terms there? How long do you get for summer and winter breaks?

How many electives do you get? Do many international students go back to their respective countries or stay in Ireland for these electives? Are they scheduled during the clinical curriculum or do you just do electives during your time off in the summers?

Cheers.

r3kapur
 
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deleted21609

Anyone attending or planning to attend medical school in Ireland should become informed about your options following graduation so that you can be prepared when the time comes to get a job.

In the past it was possible to stay in Ireland for an intern year, SHO post, etc. That is becoming more difficult though, so you can't necessarily count on it. As far as going to the UK, there has been some mis-information in previous posts. While your degree is recognized in the UK and throughout the EU, you will not be able to get a job in any of those places without citizenship in an EU country. I know several people who were matched with intern jobs in the UK but will be unable to actually take the jobs because they aren't citizens. Better that you know this now rather than a few months before graduation.

If you are American you should expect to go home after graduation. You just have to work hard to get your Steps & CSA, out of the way in time for the match. If you have passed all your exams, then you should be able to get an intern job in the US.

If you are Canadian, you should go to Ireland expecting to move to Nova Scotia or the US when you graduate.

Good luck everyone.
 

redshifteffect

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Originally posted by student.ie

If you are Canadian, you should go to Ireland expecting to move to Nova Scotia

Good luck everyone.

That's not quite true either. As a Canadian we have a whole set of problems; one of them is that we don't have enough residency positions in Canada (not only for local grads but for IMGs particularly). So even moving to Nova Scotia without any residency (either from Ireland, UK, Australia, NZ...etc) would not help much as you still wouldn't get a job.
 

leorl

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Originally posted by student.ie
Anyone attending or planning to attend medical school in Ireland should become informed about your options following graduation so that you can be prepared when the time comes to get a job.

In the past it was possible to stay in Ireland for an intern year, SHO post, etc. That is becoming more difficult though, so you can't necessarily count on it. As far as going to the UK, there has been some mis-information in previous posts. While your degree is recognized in the UK and throughout the EU, you will not be able to get a job in any of those places without citizenship in an EU country. I know several people who were matched with intern jobs in the UK but will be unable to actually take the jobs because they aren't citizens. Better that you know this now rather than a few months before graduation.

I'll write a more lengthy post later. I'm not sure about this statement though, student.ie. Canadians I know who are currently practicing or doing internship/residency/locums in the UK don't have citizenship in the EU or UK. I'll try to find out more details of their situation when they applied.
 

redshifteffect

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Originally posted by leorl
I'll write a more lengthy post later. I'm not sure about this statement though, student.ie. Canadians I know who are currently practicing or doing internship/residency/locums in the UK don't have citizenship in the EU or UK. I'll try to find out more details of their situation when they applied.

The one good thing about the UK is that you do not need to have ANY pr/citizenship to do training - all that is req'd is a work visa. However preference is given to locals; but in the current times when there is a dire shortage this isn't a huge problem.
 
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deleted21609

Well, for the Canadians I think you'd have a decent chance of matching in Nova Scotia. The Canadians I know in school in Ireland have given up entirely on going to Toronto, but are hopeful about Nova Scotia. It's isn't guaranteed that there will be positions available in the second round of the Canadian match, but the positions that are left over (and therefore at least possible for Irish grads to obtain) are in the boonies.

As far as training in the UK, it isn't exactly true that citizenship isn't required. If you go to school in Ireland, then you'll be looking for an intern job first. EU citizens can get this in the UK no problem, but non-citizens have to pass the PLAB before they can work in the UK. This is an exam for SHO's not so it isn't really do-able, so getting an intern job in the UK isn't going to happen for foreigners. The people I know who went to the UK had a EU citizen parent and were able to get an EU passport and then an intern job because of that.
 

redshifteffect

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Originally posted by student.ie
Well, for the Canadians I think you'd have a decent chance of matching in Nova Scotia. The Canadians I know in school in Ireland have given up entirely on going to Toronto, but are hopeful about Nova Scotia. It's isn't guaranteed that there will be positions available in the second round of the Canadian match, but the positions that are left over (and therefore at least possible for Irish grads to obtain) are in the boonies.

As far as training in the UK, it isn't exactly true that citizenship isn't required. If you go to school in Ireland, then you'll be looking for an intern job first. EU citizens can get this in the UK no problem, but non-citizens have to pass the PLAB before they can work in the UK. This is an exam for SHO's not so it isn't really do-able, so getting an intern job in the UK isn't going to happen for foreigners. The people I know who went to the UK had a EU citizen parent and were able to get an EU passport and then an intern job because of that.

All bets are off on the matching. Many Canadian provinces increased their enrollment for medical schools but failed to increase their residency positions. I think even some local canadians are gonna have trouble matching. If you check out CaRMS the match rate for IMGs gets lower each year. So I highly doubt even positions in Nova Scotia in the boonies will be available.

As for this citizenship thing; i dont' know if that's true. A lot of my friends from Australia did their internship in the UK and non of them have any UK citizenship. ARE YOU SURE you need a citizenship to do so???

The PLAB is a new thing for aussie grads. Until this year it wasn't req'd.
 
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deleted21609

About your Australian friends- Until Oct 31, 2003, doctors from Australia, Hong Kong, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, South Africa and the West Indies were exempted from some of the requirements for registration with the General Medical Council (UK). That's no longer the case even for them.
 

r3kapur

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Hi guys,

I made the tough decision of declining TCDs offer this morning. I'm back in the game... it's hard to think I am... but well I think it's best for me at this point.

I wanted to thank everyone for all their input and information which made the decision so much easier to make!

All the best to all of you!

Cheers.
 
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