Is 500k doable (<60 hours/week) in Manhattan?

[Lothric]

Hey,

Is a 500k gross salary doable in Manhattan 3-4 years into a practise (IM, pulm/cc or onc/heme) with < 60 hour work weeks?

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[Raryn]

As a spine surgeon? Sure.

As an internist? Lol. Manhattan salaries are among the lowest in the country. You might be able to pull off $500k working ~60 hours a week doing hospitalist nights in Wyoming (working ~20 days a month at 12 hour shifts), but I doubt you would even pull half that in Manhattan even working the same schedule.

Pulm/cc and heme/onc will be better off than IM, but still likely nowhere near that number in that city.

 

[Lothric]

As a spine surgeon? Sure.

As an internist? Lol. Manhattan salaries are among the lowest in the country. You might be able to pull off $500k working ~60 hours a week doing hospitalist nights in Wyoming (working ~20 days a month at 12 hour shifts), but I doubt you would even pull half that in Manhattan even working the same schedule.

Pulm/cc and heme/onc will be better off than IM, but still likely nowhere near that number in that city.

Can the same thing be said for any major city (Chicago IL, LA, Miami, ORL FL?)

 

[IMGASMD]

Manhattan? Probably hard. Other boroughs? Possible I think. Or even just outside of NYC proper. I’ve met someone who traveled from Brooklyn to adjacent states as locum, who made at least that much as a new Grad hospitalist. But that’s a locum rate, with no benefits or vacations.

500000/(52 weeks*60hrs) = 160

160/hr as a hospitalist I think doable. Pulm/CCM sure. But that’s working locum...... maybe you’ll find something worth become a perm for.

 

[Lothric]

Manhattan? Probably hard. Other boroughs? Possible I think. Or even just outside of NYC proper. I’ve met someone who traveled from Brooklyn to adjacent states as locum, who made at least that much as a new Grad hospitalist. But that’s a locum rate, with no benefits or vacations.

500000/(52 weeks*60hrs) = 160

160/hr as a hospitalist I think doable. Pulm/CCM sure. But that’s working locum...... maybe you’ll find something worth become a perm for.

It would be amazing to be 30-45 min drive away to Manhattan and still make that 500k

 

[IMGASMD]

It would be amazing to be 30-45 min drive away to Manhattan and still make that 500k

He travelled every week, it was a train ride away. He like a lot of New Yorkers, does not actually know how to drive. So never owned a car. When you’re on a locum assignment, they pay for travel and lodging. Can be pretty fun getting all those hotel points.

 

[rokshana]

Manhattan? Probably hard. Other boroughs? Possible I think. Or even just outside of NYC proper. I’ve met someone who traveled from Brooklyn to adjacent states as locum, who made at least that much as a new Grad hospitalist. But that’s a locum rate, with no benefits or vacations.

500000/(52 weeks*60hrs) = 160

160/hr as a hospitalist I think doable. Pulm/CCM sure. But that’s working locum...... maybe you’ll find something worth become a perm for.

remember that as a locum, you are an independent contractor and at least 50% of that will need to go for taxes.

also it would be very difficult to work Hospitalist, especially if you have to travel where you are working every single weekday (which at 12 hours shifts, you would be working 5 days a week and then traveling over the weekend

and 160/hour would be unusual that close to the city...120-130/hour is probably more the average in a big city...less desirable areas though 160/hr would be doable but then you have to allot travel time into the mix...adjacent states to NY would be central Pa where you could get at least 160/hr or western Mass...maybe Conn, but I wouldn't think that you could easily get 160, 140-150 would be possible.

but since it sounds like the OP wants to work the least and make the most AND still live in NYC, I don't think he really wants to work as hard as it would be needed to make his 500k goal.

as Hospitalist, you can easily work < 60 hours a week and you could potentially make 500k , but to have one position do both? that would be a unicorn.

locums ED or locums specialist? they pay more per hour (200-250/hr) but of course they are not as plentiful as Hospitalist locums jobs.

 

[Psai]

He travelled every week, it was a train ride away. He like a lot of New Yorkers, does not actually know how to drive. So never owned a car. When you’re on a locum assignment, they pay for travel and lodging. Can be pretty fun getting all those hotel points.

Most New Yorkers with cars don't know how to drive.

You could easily make more as a nurse manager or CRNA than as a hospitalist, especially if the hours are the same.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Most New Yorkers with cars don't know how to drive.

You could easily make more as a nurse manager or CRNA than as a hospitalist, especially if the hours are the same.

True. And CRNAs are pretty much doctors. They know everything an anesthesiologist does anyway. Just ask them!

 

[jacksparrow82]

Hey,

Is a 500k gross salary doable in Manhattan 3-4 years into a practise (IM, pulm/cc or onc/heme) with < 60 hour work weeks?

LOL, never in your wildest dreams will an IM doc come even close to that kind of money anywhere near Manhattan. Especially with only 60 hours a week. Don't kid yourself. That's the kind of money you make practicing in the middle of nowhere midwest and working a crazy schedule. I also highly doubt pulm/cc or heme/onc would even be able to hit those numbers in that region. If you really busted your ass as a hospitalist working 80 hours a week all year you might be able to hit $300k in a big city. But what's the point of living in the big city in that situation? You'd be at the hospital 100% of the time. A more realistic salary for an IM doc in NYC would be closer to $220k range after bonuses and that's high end.
You have to decide, big bucks or Manhattan. You can't have both as an physician, unless you're orthopedics or similar high paid surgical sub-specialist. The same is true for most major metropolitan areas (LA, SF, Chicago, Seattle, etc). You're not going to get the big bucks when there are tons of qualified physicians around.

 

[wamcp]

I must be the unicorn around here. I agree it is impossible to make >500k at <60 hr a week in Manhattan. Been there tried that (when I was in a big east coast city).

But out in the midwest/west, I live downtown of a city >1 million and make anywhere from 2000 to 2800 per shift at my hospitals. The 2800 is for 12 hr night shifts. The 2000 is for 8 hour admitting in the night or 12 hour day admitting shift. I am not working locums, just have credentialing for moonlighting at 4 hospitals. All are 30 miles out from downtown city center. One can easily clear 600K at about 22 shifts a month.

The drawback to the high pay other than the commute and odd hours, is I do get worked hard. Average 12-15 admits per shift.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Short answer is no. Not as a hospitalist or PCP that’s for sure. I know folks in several specialties living in and around NYC - nobody has cleared over 350-400k. The only exception is a derm that ultimately decided not to work in the city, and a plastic surgeon.

This is an area which has the worst combo of issues for a physician - high job saturation, highly desirable location (for many), and fierce competition for even mediocre jobs. To top it off, COL is incredibly high compared to areas, say, only an hour away from NYC. This has led to some absurd differences in salary compared to other cities - I know of general cardiologists making less than their hospitalist counterparts.

It depends OP on what you want to do. If you want to live in NYC and maybe take a locus gig for a week on/off in Iowa or the Dakotas or Missouri (which isn’t bad - you basically get travel and housing paid), you could potentially make that plan work. If you want to work there, doubt you’ll clear 500k... salary closer to 180-200k

I recommend working, saving and investing, trying a side gig of some sort of money of that sort is your goal

 

[Psai]

I must be the unicorn around here. I agree it is impossible to make >500k at <60 hr a week in Manhattan. Been there tried that (when I was in a big east coast city).

But out in the midwest/west, I live downtown of a city >1 million and make anywhere from 2000 to 2800 per shift at my hospitals. The 2800 is for 12 hr night shifts. The 2000 is for 8 hour admitting in the night or 12 hour day admitting shift. I am not working locums, just have credentialing for moonlighting at 4 hospitals. All are 30 miles out from downtown city center. One can easily clear 600K at about 22 shifts a month.

The drawback to the high pay other than the commute and odd hours, is I do get worked hard. Average 12-15 admits per shift.

twenty two 12 hour shifts admitting a patient every hour is awful, especially since the population is not very healthy. That's low pay for that kind of work and easily leads to burnout.

 

[wamcp]

Burnout for many folks sure. But in my opinion it’s great pay for lower anxiety and lower risk work. I don’t worry about dispo or social issues. A lot of the initial workup is done in by the ED and my care is more focused. Less bull**** to wade through.

Compare it to EM where it is standard to see two totally undifferentiated patients per hour, some of them are crashing crit care folks, and having to discharge some of them from the ED. You couldn’t pay me enough to accept that kind of job long term

 

[ShuperNewbie]

It's too early for you to worry about this right now and honestly I'm curious as to why this so important to you. FWIW yes some of my PCCM attendings and heme/onc attendings break 500k or sit at that border but they tend to be more senior attendings. As a hospitalist it's much tougher and you'll have to work much harder. Yes you take a major pay cut to work in manhattan (as someone who is looking for hospitalist jobs right now I can verify this) but you're by no means in an uncomfortable situation because of your salary. If you're willing to work two jobs (as some hospitalists do) you can certainly break 500k but that would mean burying yourself with work. Although if you are willing to go into outpatient medicine and start your own practice OUTSIDE of manhattan (long island, staten island, upstate, etc.) then you can certainly break 400k with a 60hr work week in a lean practice within 4 years (It's actually not as uncommon as people think, just not in manhattan).

 

[W19]

True. And CRNAs are pretty much doctors. They know everything an anesthesiologist does anyway. Just ask them!

Lol... They are Noctors.

 

[W19]

Since we are talking about salary, how difficult it is to make 300k in south FL as a hospitalist?

 

[314117]

Short answer is no. I know folks in several specialties living in and around NYC - nobody has cleared over 350-400k.

Guess what? Just because you don't know any doctors who earn more than that doesn't mean they don't exist. My first job out of fellowship was in Manhattan in a private practice - the 2 partners were making close to $1MM each. There are a million ways to make money. If you want to live/work in Manhattan, you'll have to hustle just like everyone else.[/QUOTE]

 

[whoknows2012]

Guess what? Just because you don't know any doctors who earn more than that doesn't mean they don't exist. My first job out of fellowship was in Manhattan in a private practice - the 2 partners were making close to $1MM each. There are a million ways to make money. If you want to live/work in Manhattan, you'll have to hustle just like everyone else.

[/QUOTE]

I don’t think the question was has there ever been an md in nyc making > 500,000 because I think we all know that there are many. The question was is 500k possible in IM subspecialties (what specialty are you in?) or general IM to which the answer is essentially no. Sure people have made that much but most were not a couple yrs out of training and are likely to be in higher paying specialties. I’d venture to guess that 500k for any of those fields in Manhattan would be in the 95-99th percentile

 

[314117]

I don’t think the question was has there ever been an md in nyc making > 500,000 because I think we all know that there are many. The question was is 500k possible in IM subspecialties (what specialty are you in?) or general IM to which the answer is essentially no. [/QUOTE]

I'd venture to guess you're wrong that "the answer is essentially no". If you are working as a hospitalist or whatever, getting paid by a hospital system etc, then of course not. But there are certainly people making $500k and much more in Manhattan in probably every field in medicine. They likely aren't sitting around seeing commercially-insured patients like an average doctor.

Anyone who has ever lived or worked in Manhattan knows that to be successful there requires hard work and hustle, and there is no doubt that to earn $500k plus practicing medicine there is no exception.

 

[IMreshopeful]

I don’t think the question was has there ever been an md in nyc making > 500,000 because I think we all know that there are many. The question was is 500k possible in IM subspecialties (what specialty are you in?) or general IM to which the answer is essentially no.

I'd venture to guess you're wrong that "the answer is essentially no". If you are working as a hospitalist or whatever, getting paid by a hospital system etc, then of course not. But there are certainly people making $500k and much more in Manhattan in probably every field in medicine. They likely aren't sitting around seeing commercially-insured patients like an average doctor.

Anyone who has ever lived or worked in Manhattan knows that to be successful there requires hard work and hustle, and there is no doubt that to earn $500k plus practicing medicine there is no exception.[/QUOTE]

I went to school in the area. I know how things work there, thanks
You’re also a PM&R/pain guy. As such your personal relevance to this discussion about medical specialties and GIM is useless

 

[whoknows2012]

I'd venture to guess you're wrong that "the answer is essentially no". If you are working as a hospitalist or whatever, getting paid by a hospital system etc, then of course not. But there are certainly people making $500k and much more in Manhattan in probably every field in medicine. They likely aren't sitting around seeing commercially-insured patients like an average doctor.

Anyone who has ever lived or worked in Manhattan knows that to be successful there requires hard work and hustle, and there is no doubt that to earn $500k plus practicing medicine there is no exception.

I went to school in the area. I know how things work there, thanks
You’re also a PM&R/pain guy. As such your personal relevance to this discussion about medical specialties and GIM is useless[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I suspected this hence my question earlier but his opinion is unhelpful in this conversation

 

[drfunktacular]

If you are asking this question as a medical student...

IM is probably not for you

 

[W19]

I was told someone at my program signed a contract this year 21 shifts/month for 700k/yr... The person who told me that claims she saw the contract.

 

[wamcp]

I was told someone at my program signed a contract this year 21 shifts/month for 700k/yr... The person who told me that claims she saw the contract.

In Manhattan for hospitalist? No way.

Bumtown podunk nowhere? Definitely possible. I have seen rates of above $3000 per shift. At 21 shifts a month to get 700k that likely does exist just not in Manhattan

 

[W19]

In Manhattan for hospitalist? No way.

Bumtown podunk nowhere? Definitely possible. I have seen rates of above $3000 per shift. At 21 shifts a month to get 700k that likely does exist just not in Manhattan

Yeah... It's podunk nowhere in the midwest...

 

[314117]

As such your personal relevance to this discussion about medical specialties and GIM is useless

Based on your comments, It’s you who doesn’t know how things work.

 

[whoknows2012]

Thank you. I suspected this hence my question earlier but his opinion is unhelpful in this conversation

Based on your comments, It’s you who doesn’t know how things work.[/QUOTE]

Lol wut

 

[314117]

Based on your comments, It’s you who doesn’t know how things work.

Lol wut[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry- Are you a medical student? LOL. Then you DEFINITELY do not know how things work, even though you went to school "in the area."

Nothing is more ridiculous than a medical student claiming to know how the real world of practicing medicine works. At this point you truly know nothing about it.

Best to limit to comments to something that you actually know something about. Please don't waste anyone's time anymore and just accept that you are clueless.

 

[whoknows2012]

Based on your comments, It’s you who doesn’t know how things work.

Lol wut

I'm sorry- Are you a medical student? LOL. Then you DEFINITELY do not know how things work, even though you went to school "in the area."

Nothing is more ridiculous than a medical student claiming to know how the real world of practicing medicine works. At this point you truly know nothing about it.

Best to limit to comments to something that you actually know something about. Please don't waste anyone's time anymore and just accept that you are clueless.[/QUOTE]

Definitely not a medical student (far from it). I have a very good understanding of the economics in the nyc area in various IM specialties as well as general IM. In consulting in private practice in academics pharma you name it. You are so wrong it’s kind of hilarious.

Also I never said I went to school in the area so not sure who that comment is directed towards. I’ve done all my training in NYC and actually have a basis to answer the question at hand as opposed to someone not in the specialty mentioned nor answering the actual question the OP had

 

[314117]

"I went to school in the area. I know how things work there, thanks"

That is a direct quote from you. And your status says medical student. Get your stories and facts straight, accept that you don't know what you're talking about, and stop wasting my time.

 

[whoknows2012]

"I went to school in the area. I know how things work there, thanks"

That is a direct quote from you. And your status says medical student. Get your stories and facts straight, accept that you don't know what you're talking about, and stop wasting my time.

The quoting is odd for some reason but that is certainly not my words. That was from @IMreshopeful

Taking your ire out in the wrong person. Secondly, just because my status say medical student, doesn’t make me one. You took the time to look at that you could also take the time to look at my posts to know I’m quite far from being a medical student.

On the topic of wasting peoples times, why don’t you give us some examples of people you know how many years into practice, what specialty and their income and then we can have a debate; here are mine

Hem/onc 3 yrs into practice 220 (academic)
Hem/onc 1 yr into practice 270 (academic)
Hem/onc 1 yr into practice private 300
Hem/onc 2 yr into practice private 350
Hospitalist 5 yrs into practice 220 (academic)
Hospitalist 3 yrs into practice 250 (academic)
GIM private 3 yrs into practice 220

And there are many more but will stop there to hear your intelligent response

 

[314117]

Your comments/opinion don't warrant an intelligent response. I won't waste another on you.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Your comments/opinion don't warrant an intelligent response. I wouldn't waste another on you.

So wait, posting actual figures doesn't warrant a response?

 

[whoknows2012]

So wait, posting actual figures doesn't warrant a response?

I know I know seems backwards. Meanwhile he/she speaks as if they’re 20 yrs my senior as far as training goes and it turns out they’re only into practice for 6-7 yrs and in the wrong specialty for the question at hand. Making the point about where the information is coming from all the more important because for the op he/she was genuinely curious about a near impossible salary early in practice. @avalon10 we’ll wait for any data to back up your assertion. All of the physician compensation surveys which give perecentiles for salaries in the mentioned specialties are enough data for me even without the anecdotes

 

[IMreshopeful]

"I went to school in the area. I know how things work there, thanks"

That is a direct quote from you. And your status says medical student. Get your stories and facts straight, accept that you don't know what you're talking about, and stop wasting my time.

U mad bro? That was my quote. Yell at me

My point still stands

 

[IMreshopeful]

So wait, posting actual figures doesn't warrant a response?

He got backed into a corner and fighting on the Internet. Let’s leave it be