Is a 99 worth anything anymore?

[Captopril]

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So I'm about to start prepping for my Step 1 exam. I'm a foreign grad and have a lot of time to study (~6 months). For this reason I am trying to develop a decent study plan, but as I read more and more "USMLE experience" threads, I find everyone + their mom is getting a 99. What's up with that? Is it really that easy to rock a 99 these days, or are the <99 test-takers just not being vocal?

My concern is that if everyone is getting a 99, its value drops. I appreciate anyone else's viewpoint on this matter.

 

[lord_jeebus]

It never had much value on its own since most programs use the 3 digit score.

 

[Saladin MD]

It really feels that way that everyone and their mom gets a 99, but I'm two weeks away, and I don't think I can get it...maybe I should ask my mom to take the test. :'(

Dude, getting a 99 is awesome. I know that schools use the three digit score, but still.

 

[Pollux]

It really feels that way that everyone and their mom gets a 99, but I'm two weeks away, and I don't think I can get it...maybe I should ask my mom to take the test. :'(

LOL, this is too funny. Maybe if I asked my mom to take the exam, she would have gotten 300/99. LOL

Okay seriously, the minimum 3-digit-score that corresponds to a 99 is 236, which is around 80th to 85th percentile. So of course there are a lot of 99s around, because 15%-20% of all exam takers get 99s. Furthermore, considering the population on SDN and potential self-reporting bias (only high scorers post their experiences), it comes as no surprise to me that almost half of the scores you see on SDN are 99s. 😉

 

[Captopril]

Yeah I guess I should start paying more attn to the 3-digit scores. Pollux, you take the cake in that category!

 

[Saladin MD]

LOL, this is too funny. Maybe if I asked my mom to take the exam, she would have gotten 300/99. LOL

Okay seriously, the minimum 3-digit-score that corresponds to a 99 is 236, which is around 80th to 85th percentile. So of course there are a lot of 99s around, because 15%-20% of all exam takers get 99s. Furthermore, considering the population on SDN and potential self-reporting bias (only high scorers post their experiences), it comes as no surprise to me that almost half of the scores you see on SDN are 99s. 😉

236 is the cut-off for 99? I thought it was 244?

That's great! I was using that equation to convert Uworld score to USMLE score, and I was getting borderline 243 or 244. It's good to know that it's only 236. Are you sure?

That equation seems too good to be true though.

Anyways Pollux, I can safely say that I hate you. The only way to describe your score is to say that you committed a war crime against the USMLE.

 

[Pollux]

Yeah I guess I should start paying more attn to the 3-digit scores. Pollux, you take the cake in that category!

Haha, thanks. 😉

236 is the cut-off for 99? I thought it was 244?
That's great! I was using that equation to convert Uworld score to USMLE score, and I was getting borderline 243 or 244. It's good to know that it's only 236. Are you sure?
That equation seems too good to be true though.
Anyways Pollux, I can safely say that I hate you. The only way to describe your score is to say that you committed a war crime against the USMLE.

Yes, I'm fairly certain that I saw a couple of people with 236/99 this year. Google "236/99 USMLE" and you shall find. 🙄

I didn't trust the equation because it gave me a prediction of 295. Like that's possible.

Thanks, I love me too. 😀

 

[Saladin MD]

Haha, thanks. 😉



Yes, I'm fairly certain that I saw a couple of people with 236/99 this year. Google "236/99 USMLE" and you shall find. 🙄

I didn't trust the equation because it gave me a prediction of 295. Like that's possible.

Thanks, I love me too. 😀

Thanks man. You're right. I googled it and a few hits came up. And I don't really hate you of course. Was just using hyperbolic language. You got an awesome score. Congrats. If I break 95%, I'll be happy. If I get a 99% (even 236), I'll be ecstatic. As for the equation not working for you, I think your case is special since you are an outlier.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Thanks man. You're right. I googled it and a few hits came up. And I don't really hate you of course. Was just using hyperbolic language. You got an awesome score. Congrats. If I break 95%, I'll be happy. If I get a 99% (even 236), I'll be ecstatic. As for the equation not working for you, I think your case is special since you are an outlier.

Whoa careful with the % there. The two digit score is not a percent, is not a percentile. The two digit score is irrelevant, it changes every year, no one has any idea how its calculated, just throw it out the window, no one cares. Shoot for 236, but don't shoot for 95 or 99.

 

[Saladin MD]

Whoa careful with the % there. The two digit score is not a percent, is not a percentile. The two digit score is irrelevant, it changes every year, no one has any idea how its calculated, just throw it out the window, no one cares. Shoot for 236, but don't shoot for 95 or 99.

The two digit is not a percent? I know it's not a rank or percentile, but I thought it was a percent. Hmmm, ok. I still want a 99 though. 😛

 

[Cards21aceking]

Nope. Not a percent. I think it's a remnant of an older system that stated that a passing score of "75" was necessary to be licensed. That was then converted to a 3 digit score of 184, and then it was just correlated as the scores increased. Fairly meaningless if u asked me, but a 99 is still a 99, and definitely something to take pride in.

Here's an Interesting article that i came across a few days ago.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/3688l8063062m181/

 

[Mecca]

Hi,
i just recently signed up to this blog and saw that u had a lot of contact wid people and did great on ur step 1. i am really searching for sum advice, i took my step 1 on 31st dec and got my results recently and got 170/68, im getting married in the next three weeks and start my clinicals in march. how can i improve my step1 score. I learned first aid 08, cover-cover havent read the book for abt 1month now and info filtering out... and did 3125 usmleRX.

Please reply hope to hear from u soon
Jen

LOL, this is too funny. Maybe if I asked my mom to take the exam, she would have gotten 300/99. LOL

Okay seriously, the minimum 3-digit-score that corresponds to a 99 is 236, which is around 80th to 85th percentile. So of course there are a lot of 99s around, because 15%-20% of all exam takers get 99s. Furthermore, considering the population on SDN and potential self-reporting bias (only high scorers post their experiences), it comes as no surprise to me that almost half of the scores you see on SDN are 99s. 😉

 

[Diegokikn]

Nope. Not a percent. I think it's a remnant of an older system that stated that a passing score of "75" was necessary to be licensed. That was then converted to a 3 digit score of 184, and then it was just correlated as the scores increased. Fairly meaningless if u asked me, but a 99 is still a 99, and definitely something to take pride in.

Here's an Interesting article that i came across a few days ago.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/3688l8063062m181/

Is there any way you can send me this article?
I can't pay for it...
Thanks!

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Is there any way you can send me this article?
I can't pay for it...
Thanks!

"Unless they are high performers, those who misinterpret their two-digit scores as percentiles markedly overestimate their performance."

this is a pretty good summary of the situation

 

[scube]

I think i read somewhere the two digit is set such that the passing or average score is a 75. which is why it tops out before the theoretical 300 score.

 

[Saladin MD]

If only 15% of test takers get a 99 as Pollux said, then I *do* think it is still worth a lot. Sure, 15% is a lot, but I think that being in the top 15% of medical students is a big deal, since most medical students were the top of their high school, then the top of their university as well (or somewhat). So it's being 15% of the most competitive batch of students out there.

People who frequent MCAT sub-forums say that over there the same thing goes on with MCAT scores...it feels like everyone is getting a phenomenal score, when clearly that isn't the reality. It's just because of a self-reporting bias.

 

[FutureInternist]

If only 15% of test takers get a 99 as Pollux said, then I *do* think it is still worth a lot. Sure, 15% is a lot, but I think that being in the top 15% of medical students is a big deal, since most medical students were the top of their high school, then the top of their university as well (or somewhat). So it's being 15% of the most competitive batch of students out there.

Just like "Top Gun"......the Best of the Best.....w/o all the homoerotic volleyball playing 😀

 

[Captopril]

If only 15% of test takers get a 99 as Pollux said, then I *do* think it is still worth a lot. Sure, 15% is a lot, but I think that being in the top 15% of medical students is a big deal, since most medical students were the top of their high school, then the top of their university as well (or somewhat). So it's being 15% of the most competitive batch of students out there.

People who frequent MCAT sub-forums say that over there the same thing goes on with MCAT scores...it feels like everyone is getting a phenomenal score, when clearly that isn't the reality. It's just because of a self-reporting bias.

As Conrad Fisher says "You are the best of your generation, the light of humanity".

 

[kassy]

is there any way you can send me this article?
I can't pay for it...
Thanks!

View attachment mininterpret usmle scores.pdf

 

[GMDMD]

Short answer: yes

Third year you will realize that SDN isn't representative and that a lot of people in your class would kill for your 99 two-digit score. It's nothing to write home about but good enough to make the screening cutoff for almost every specialty.

 

[Saladin MD]

Short answer: yes

Third year you will realize that SDN isn't representative and that a lot of people in your class would kill for your 99 two-digit score. It's nothing to write home about but good enough to make the screening cutoff for almost every specialty.

Why does everyone keep saying that? I think most of our mothers would be ecstatic if they heard the word "ninety-nine." 😀 Well, don't write home; just call. First person to hear my score will probably be my mom, God-Willing.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Why does everyone keep saying that? I think most of our mothers would be ecstatic if they heard the word "ninety-nine." 😀 Well, don't write home; just call. First person to hear my score will probably be my mom, God-Willing.

If you write home about scoring 75th percentile which is what I estimate the minimum a 99 is worth about these days then go for it.

 

[Saladin MD]

If you write home about scoring 75th percentile which is what I estimate the minimum a 99 is worth about these days then go for it.

Like I said earlier, I think that's still quite an accomplishment, i.e. being in the top quarter of all medical students.

 

[Captopril]

Like I said earlier, I think that's still quite an accomplishment, i.e. being in the top quarter of all medical students.

I think review courses + the efficacy of First Aid have spoiled the fun of getting a 99, since every Tom Dick n Harry is now getting one.

 

[peace zealot]

I think review courses + the efficacy of First Aid have spoiled the fun of getting a 99, since every Tom Dick n Harry is now getting one.

I guess the fun of getting 99 can never fade, even if everyone is getting that.🙂

 

[Saladin MD]

Well, there is no point going back and forth, but I guess our disagreement is OK, since the true answer is that a 99 may mean a lot to one person and not much to another. So there is no universal answer. 🙂

I just wanted to reply to what Captopril said here:

I think review courses + the efficacy of First Aid have spoiled the fun of getting a 99, since every Tom Dick n Harry is now getting one.

My own opinion is that we don't need to live life as if its a zero-sum game. Just because a lot of other people also get a 99, it doesn't take away the joy of it. I think the Step 1 is a rite of passage--it's the crappiest part of all, from the start of medical school to the start of residency. I think just passing it--even with a mediocre 85--is an accomplishment that one can be proud of. When people pass the bar, they are happy, regardless of their score. So even with a mediocre 85, you have entered the ranks of medicine.

In any case, just because a lot of others get a 99 doesn't take away from the great accomplishment of getting a great score on the Step 1. I think it's a bit snobby for people to say "big deal" to such a thing, when in fact, I think the more appropriate response is "congratulations, great score!" When a person gets a black belt, is he not happy with his accomplishment, regardless of the fact that millions worldwide have a black belt?

Perhaps we have been programmed in high school, university, and medical school to define our joy in the misery of others: we are only happy with a high grade if others get a low one. Is this not a bit morbid? We've turned into sharks, taking the term "cut-throat competition" almost literally. We want to get ahead at the expense of others, to such an extent that our joy is conditional on their failure. I think that as we enter the real world, we will find that life is not like that. Everyone can be a winner, and that doesn't really take away from our own individual joy.

Anyways, no point in going in circles. My score is coming out tomorrow, God-Willing...if I get a 99, I'll be doing three back-flips. If I get a 95+, I'll be very pleased and "writing home". 😛

 

[Captopril]

When I started this thread, what I was asking was if a 99 is worth anything to the Program Directors. I would think that 5-10 years ago when a 99/236 wasn't a dime a dozen, it would get you some pretty good looks from PDs. But now since anyone with a few bucks in his/her pocket can shell out some cash for a Kaplan course, etc, everyone is rocking 235+. I assume the result now is a PD seeing it and going "eh, what else you got?".

Ultimately what I am talking about is market saturation.

 

[Captopril]

And BTW Saladin, good luck on your score!

 

[Saladin MD]

When I started this thread, what I was asking was if a 99 is worth anything to the Program Directors. I would think that 5-10 years ago when a 99/236 wasn't a dime a dozen, it would get you some pretty good looks from PDs. But now since anyone with a few bucks in his/her pocket can shell out some cash for a Kaplan course, etc, everyone is rocking 235+. I assume the result now is a PD seeing it and going "eh, what else you got?".

Ultimately what I am talking about is market saturation.

Ahhh, I see what you mean. Having said that, a 99 will get you into almost any field if you are an AMG, and for an IMG into all the IMG-possible fields. So I still don't quite agree with you, but cool, I understand what you mean.

And BTW Saladin, good luck on your score!

Thanks man. I'm crapping bricks till then.

 

[blz]

Funny thread. In my experience the only people that I know that care about the two digit scores are FMGs. Most of them just want the opportunity to brag to their extended family about how they received a "95%" on the USMLE. I've actually had a foreign grad consider my score equal to theirs because I got a 99 and he got a 97 (260+ vs. 220whatever). Seems to be rampant amongst the Indian FMGs.

I'll probably get flamed for saying that but serisouly you FMGs need to get with the program.

 

[thethom]

You are gonna get flamed jack*ss. I happen to be a half-"indian FMG," and thats a pretty big generalization with a lot of stereotyping of "indians." Foreign grads know the importance of getting a high USMLE score to compete with the AMGs, and believe me, we all know that its the 3 digit score that counts, and differentiates those of us with 260's and the AMGs with 230's getting competitive residency spots that should have gone to the most qualified applicant (the one with the 260, regardless of the name of their medical school).

 

[Redrox]

Very funny thread. Especially when you consider the fact that grade inflation CANNOT occur given how the test is scored using standard of deviations.

Silly times.

 

[Captopril]

.

 

[Saladin MD]

Funny thread. In my experience the only people that I know that care about the two digit scores are FMGs. Most of them just want the opportunity to brag to their extended family about how they received a "95%" on the USMLE. I've actually had a foreign grad consider my score equal to theirs because I got a 99 and he got a 97 (260+ vs. 220whatever). Seems to be rampant amongst the Indian FMGs.

I'll probably get flamed for saying that but serisouly you FMGs need to get with the program.

Your post is true, to an extent. The main reason why I want a 99 (God-Willing!) is indeed so I can "brag" to my family. Well, mostly my parents just want me to get a 99, so yeah there is pressure for that reason, and then *they* will brag to extended family. 🙂

My question to you is: so? So what? What's your point? Why does anyone need to "get with the program"? I certainly don't think a 220 is the same--or even close to a 260. But do I want a 99? Sure. For the reasons I stated. There is very little difference between a 235/98 and 236/99 for a program director. I know that. But like I said, there is the pressure of the parents. They want the 99.

Again, my question to you is: so what? What's your point? Why is that a bad thing? It's just an arbitrary cut-off. For MCAT, most people put that cut-off at 32 I believe; so what? What's the big deal?

The LAST thing we want is for our parents to judge us based on the three digit score! Then it would convert from a mad dash to a 99 to a mad dash to a 260. No thank you! I'm glad that my parents will consider a 97 pretty close to a 99 (even if it is a 260/99), lol.

 

[blz]

Your post is true, to an extent. The main reason why I want a 99 (God-Willing!) is indeed so I can "brag" to my family. Well, mostly my parents just want me to get a 99, so yeah there is pressure for that reason, and then *they* will brag to extended family. 🙂

My question to you is: so? So what? What's your point? Why does anyone need to "get with the program"? I certainly don't think a 220 is the same--or even close to a 260. But do I want a 99? Sure. For the reasons I stated. There is very little difference between a 235/98 and 236/99 for a program director. I know that. But like I said, there is the pressure of the parents. They want the 99.

Again, my question to you is: so what? What's your point? Why is that a bad thing? It's just an arbitrary cut-off. For MCAT, most people put that cut-off at 32 I believe; so what? What's the big deal?

The LAST thing we want is for our parents to judge us based on the three digit score! Then it would convert from a mad dash to a 99 to a mad dash to a 260. No thank you! I'm glad that my parents will consider a 97 pretty close to a 99 (even if it is a 260/99), lol.

lol...did mommy make you go to medical school too?

i have no point - it's just a pet peeve.

 

[Captopril]

lol...did mommy make you go to medical school too?

i have no point - it's just a pet peeve.

Considering that the highest recorded score on the Step 1 was by a Pakistani FMG, I think they are pretty much w/ the program

 

[Saladin MD]

lol...did mommy make you go to medical school too?

i have no point - it's just a pet peeve.

I think it's just a cultural difference. Many white parents can't wait to have their kids leave the home at 18 years old, and then once the kids become adults, the parental-child dynamic changes dramatically. In our culture, it's not like that. Parents hate for their kids to move out...heck, my mom was in tears. And parents in brown culture retain their position of ultimate power and authority pretty much until they die. So yeah, white people do find it funny that brown parents keep such a close eye on their children (even when the kids are like mid-twenties), but alas, that is how our culture is.

In America, it's considered embarrassing to live with your parents, but in our culture, it's considered a good thing to live with your parents--and moving out can be considered a sign of disrespect. It's just a cultural difference. So yeah, my parents retain their massive authoritarian power just like they had when I was in second grade. 🙂

 

[FutureInternist]

So true.......My mom asked about my grades every step of the way 😀. Then it was "How do you think you did on Step 1? Step 2? Interviews?"
Ahhhh......Brown parents. Can't live w/ them, Can't put them in nursing homes 😀

 

[Captopril]

Ahhhh......Brown parents. Can't live w/ them, Can't put them in nursing homes 😀

LOL

 

[Saladin MD]

Ahhhh......Brown parents. Can't live w/ them, Can't put them in nursing homes 😀

haha

May God preserve them!

 

[peace zealot]

That thing is so lovable about our brown parents, I can't live without that. Don't you say alas or things like that,🙁......

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Your post is true, to an extent. The main reason why I want a 99 (God-Willing!) is indeed so I can "brag" to my family. Well, mostly my parents just want me to get a 99, so yeah there is pressure for that reason, and then *they* will brag to extended family. 🙂

My question to you is: so? So what? What's your point? Why does anyone need to "get with the program"? I certainly don't think a 220 is the same--or even close to a 260. But do I want a 99? Sure. For the reasons I stated. There is very little difference between a 235/98 and 236/99 for a program director. I know that. But like I said, there is the pressure of the parents. They want the 99.

Again, my question to you is: so what? What's your point? Why is that a bad thing? It's just an arbitrary cut-off. For MCAT, most people put that cut-off at 32 I believe; so what? What's the big deal?

The LAST thing we want is for our parents to judge us based on the three digit score! Then it would convert from a mad dash to a 99 to a mad dash to a 260. No thank you! I'm glad that my parents will consider a 97 pretty close to a 99 (even if it is a 260/99), lol.

Maybe you should correct your parents' ignorance of the situation rather than exploit it.

 

[agranulocytosis]

Maybe you should correct your parents' ignorance of the situation rather than exploit it.

Not when that 99 lands you a nice hot wife from the motherland.

 

[thethom]

not when that 99 lands you a nice hot wife from the motherland.

lol