Is a more prestigious medical school worth it?

[SooDeeO]

@SooDeeO would you say going to the state medical school that you did hurt your residency prospects?

I don't think any applicant can really answer that question. Perhaps the PD survey is a better way to indirectly answer the question--I'm not sure. I could speculate all I want retrospectively, but at the end of the day, just speculations. And it's one opinion.
Here's what I'll say.

1) Is there a "prestige bias" in academia? Probably. Does it make a difference most of the time? I'd like to believe that it doesn't. Does it make a difference in some few instances? Most likely.

2) I personally felt that my med school background was looked down on by a few select people while I was a visiting medical student during 4th year at a highly-regarded institution. But then again, take this with a grain of salt: who is to say that these people with the alleged "prejudice" weren't just jerks--regardless of where I came from?

2) There are more factors that go into interviews/match than just a pedigree (eg, regional ties, citizenship status, life accomplishments, etc)... See the PD survey mentioned above.

3) I still received a plenty of interview offers from academic power houses. 60% of my ranked programs ended up coming from "top 30" programs. I matched into one of them.

4) My personal objective all along was to keep my doors open--I think I want an academic career, so I wanted to ensure that I would have that option, fully knowing that at the end of my residency, I may have difference career objectives. So when choosing schools, I gave external factors, such as prestige, research resources, faculty with national influence, etc more consideration because these are the things I cannot control and yet potentially offer a "leg-up" in my career pursuit.

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[twospadz]

Take the money. You will not be the same person 3-4 years from now. Your pre-med perspective will change. The name of the game is to graduate as little as debt as possible in the specialty you want. Forget the rat race. You will see the world around you only cares about money. Prestige does not matter.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

FAU and BU are the schools in question. @atomi

Ok Im gonna be a dissenting opinion here but I dont think FAU is worth it over BU. FAU is reallllllly new. So it's not just a state school, but also a very new state school. It also doesnt have it's own hospital, You need to drive all over the region to rotate at mostly small community places. And its also in an area where even though the tuition is lower, the cost of living in boca raton florida is pretty high.

N=1 but when I was there it seemed like they were just way too small and too new. I remember a 3rd year telling me how she basically spent her entire surgery clerkship standing in the corner and didnt learn/do a single thing, and that scared the living hell out of me (she tried to spin at as "but now we dont rotate at that site anymore!").

I think the people coming from FAU will be fine doctors, but it just doesnt seem like such a secure bet if you want to set yourself up for success.

*Source: I got into FAU med, and have friends who go there

 

[Med Ed]

I think the people coming from FAU will be fine doctors, but it just doesnt seem like such a secure bet if you want to set yourself up for success.

Hmmm, 100% match rate two years in a row.

"The 61 medical students placed in top institutions such as Massachusetts General Hospital (Harvard University), Emory University Hospital (Emory University), Northwestern Memorial Hospital (Northwestern University), New York Eye and Ear Infirmary of Mount Sinai, Children's National Medical Center (George Washington University) and the William Beaumont Army Medical Center."

FAU uses a longitudinal integrated clerkship (LIC) model for third year. When done well the LIC is almost certainly superior to the traditional block model. I have no idea if FAU does it well, but by the sixth iteration (which is what the OP would experience) most of the kinks (aka non-structural issues) should be ironed out.

When I think of BU all I can imagine is getting pimped and yelled at by surgeons with thick Boston accents.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Hmmm, 100% match rate two years in a row.

"The 61 medical students placed in top institutions such as Massachusetts General Hospital (Harvard University), Emory University Hospital (Emory University), Northwestern Memorial Hospital (Northwestern University), New York Eye and Ear Infirmary of Mount Sinai, Children's National Medical Center (George Washington University) and the William Beaumont Army Medical Center."

FAU uses a longitudinal integrated clerkship (LIC) model for third year. When done well the LIC is almost certainly superior to the traditional block model. I have no idea if FAU does it well, but by the sixth iteration (which is what the OP would experience) most of the kinks (aka non-structural issues) should be ironed out.

When I think of BU all I can imagine is getting pimped and yelled at by surgeons with thick Boston accents.

I agree I have no issue with the theory of the curriculum (actually it was my favorite part), more just the general setup has not yet matured. I've always heard that going to a new school (<10ish years old) was a very risky?

Like I said obviously anyone from there will be a fine doctor (they all matched), but isn't the goal of med school much more than matching into any residency? Obviously I'm not in med education, but it just seems like going to the school that has a big teaching hospital and ample research opportunities would trump a school were there is literally 0 on campus research and no teaching hospital at all. Plus I feel like I always hear (both on here and in the real world) that you cant assess school quality based on a match list?

 

[hms2020]

Echoing what others have said, it's not an easy decision by any means but consider yourself lucky to be in a position to make such a choice! Best of luck

 

[Med Ed]

I've always heard that going to a new school (<10ish years old) was a very risky?

Sure, but based on what? FSU was the first of the new era MD schools to open in 2000. Since then the only school which has had a demonstrably rocky start was TCMC, which was on probation over financial issues and burned through a number of deans. Despite that, the school is still there and successfully churning out matched graduates. Central Michigan may have some issues, we will have to see.

Like I said obviously anyone from there will be a fine doctor (they all matched), but isn't the goal of med school much more than matching into any residency? Obviously I'm not in med education, but it just seems like going to the school that has a big teaching hospital and ample research opportunities would trump a school were there is literally 0 on campus research and no teaching hospital at all.

There are trade-offs with every model, and always exceptions to the rule. Baylor rose to prominence without owning a teaching hospital. UT-Dell is affiliated with a practice-oriented network of Catholic hospitals in Austin, but is going to be a highly regarded institution right out of the gate. While FAU has little national name recognition, it remains a 55-year-old university with over 30,000 students. Schmidt advertises research affiliations with Scripps, Max Planck, and Torrey Pines, which are all well regarded. Is their clinical education and/or research exposure sub-par? Perhaps, perhaps not. One would have to consider all available information objectively before rendering a decision.

Plus I feel like I always hear (both on here and in the real world) that you cant assess school quality based on a match list?

True, but also consider what FAU's results are not showing: a less than average match rate.

 

[pageantry]

Sure, but based on what? FSU was the first of the new era MD schools to open in 2000. Since then the only school which has had a demonstrably rocky start was TCMC, which was on probation over financial issues and burned through a number of deans. Despite that, the school is still there and successfully churning out matched graduates. Central Michigan may have some issues, we will have to see.



There are trade-offs with every model, and always exceptions to the rule. Baylor rose to prominence without owning a teaching hospital. UT-Dell is affiliated with a practice-oriented network of Catholic hospitals in Austin, but is going to be a highly regarded institution right out of the gate. While FAU has little national name recognition, it remains a 55-year-old university with over 30,000 students. Schmidt advertises research affiliations with Scripps, Max Planck, and Torrey Pines, which are all well regarded. Is their clinical education and/or research exposure sub-par? Perhaps, perhaps not. One would have to consider all available information objectively before rendering a decision.



True, but also consider what FAU's results are not showing: a less than average match rate.

I am wondering about OUWB's match as well and would really appreciate your take on it. 67 students are on this year's match list out of an original class of 75. I'm told that there was only one true no-match, no-prelim, no-nothing student, and the rest of the missing students had to do with various misfortunes or taking time off for research. I guess I don't know how to take that information?

They did get someone into derm and someone into neurosurg this year tho. And a bunch into California! Pretty sweet.

 

[MedScholar18]

Thank you for everyones input. It certainly is not an easy decision. Although I am very grateful to have the opportunity to make a choice.

 

[MedScholar18]

I understand what people are saying that choosing based on a match list isn't the best way to choose. However, here is the 2016 FAU match list.

 

[Med Ed]

I am wondering about OUWB's match as well and would really appreciate your take on it. 67 students are on this year's match list out of an original class of 75. I'm told that there was only one true no-match, no-prelim, no-nothing student, and the rest of the missing students had to do with various misfortunes or taking time off for research. I guess I don't know how to take that information?

They did get someone into derm and someone into neurosurg this year tho. And a bunch into California! Pretty sweet.

Look at Table 3 on page 44 of the 2016 MCAT data guide. No cohort has a 4-year graduation rate over 91%. Not all reasons for taking longer than four years to graduate are bad, mind you. Students will take extra research years with some frequency, or take LOA's for reasons unrelated to academics.

Bearing that in mind, seeing 89.3% of the starting class on the match list does not surprise me. And having one person end up totally skunked is also pretty typical, even for established programs.

Basically this is all congruent with the idea that OUWB is providing its students with a reputable education that leaves plenty of doors open.

 

[Padfoot]

It matters but how much does it matter? Is it worth 200k? Probably not. I think for 50-75k you are making the right decision. Some doors are closed to people from lower ranked schools. You won't be matching mass eye and ear without being from a top school. But you can still get an ophthalmology spot and be a great eye surgeon

Actually, when I was interviewing at Oakland Beaumont (one of the recently accredited med schools), one of the 4th years had matched into Mass Eye & Ear

 

[Psai]

Actually, when I was interviewing at Oakland Beaumont (one of the recently accredited med schools), one of the 4th years had matched into Mass Eye & Ear

Wtff
And 2 people at mass gen for anesthesiology from fau?
My mind is being blown right now

My guess is that they have great letter writers with connections

 

[christmasindr]

Wtff
And 2 people at mass gen for anesthesiology from fau?
My mind is being blown right now

My guess is that they have great letter writers with connections

Yes, exceptions do happen, which is why I never say go to X school because it guarantee you to get into Y program. Individual profile and connections matter a ton more than the school you go to.

 

[vneuro]

Board scores are the great equalizer. The USMLE Step Exam is an insanely thorough and difficult exam that requires mostly independent effort and study from the medical student. It's on an entirely different level than, say, the MCAT.

 

[Med Ed]

Wtff
And 2 people at mass gen for anesthesiology from fau?
My mind is being blown right now

My guess is that they have great letter writers with connections

It can be difficult for premeds and even medical students to wrap their heads around, but the applicant to seat ratio between medical school admissions and residency selection are completely different. Overall about 145 schools feed students into >4,000 programs across every discipline. Sure, some fields and some programs are brutally competitive to get into, but there is enough training space to allow impressive matches from every allopathic school in the country.

 

[Smart Money MD]

I realize that this thread is a little dated, but this is my two cents:

http://smartmoneymd.com/is-a-degree-from-a-prestigious-medical-school-advantageous-for-doctors/

YMMV, obviously.

 

[Endoxifen]

So, I had the chance to talk to the provost of Weill Cornell. When asked this same question, he said, somewhat surprisingly, that the school doesn't matter that much and the cost of Cornell wasn't worth it. If even he's saying about his own school, I would personally take the cheaper option.

 

[mistafab]

100% no.

I would drop my school by 100 rank if it was 120K dollars less for four years.

An MD degree is an MD degree period. The interest alone on 120K is insane when compounded.

 

[aalamruad]

100% no.

I would drop my school by 100 rank if it was 120K dollars less a year.

An MD degree is an MD degree period. The interest alone on 120K is insane when compounded.

Haha I can't tell if you're joking or not, it's not $120k less per year, it's over all 4 years. There aren't even any schools that cost $120k/year that I'm aware of, even with the most expensive tuition and in the most expensive cities

 

[QuentinT88]

Edit

 

[mistafab]

You are right. I wrote that statement incorrectly the first time.

To clarify my point above - I would accept 100 lower "rank" of my school for $120k less over the course of my four year education. Shoot, I would accept 1000 dollars less over four years per number rank lost for my school, up to the entire cost of my attending my school.

Haha I can't tell if you're joking or not, it's not $120k less per year, it's over all 4 years. There aren't even any schools that cost $120k/year that I'm aware of, even with the most expensive tuition and in the most expensive cities

 

[Jalby]

I'm currently an attending of 4 years. You should ALWAYS go to the better school/med school/residency/fellowship no matter the cost. The only thing that should supercede this is if you think you would be happy somewhere or have a regional preference. If you go to a school in LA it tends to be easier to stay in a school in LA over say an Emory. I have met sooooo many people who only got where they were because they went to a good school. For Yale IR, they only interviewed people who did rotations or came from good schools.

And $120k is not a lot in the long run. If you make $250k a year, but a better school could get you a job for $300k (And it would) then you pay back the loans you took after 3.5 years as an attending.

You should never ever make a decision about a medical school or savings based on the cost. You will make more than enough later on in life to cover it, unless you want to do Peds or something like that.

 

[Jalby]

Also, don't listen to advice pre-meds give other pre-meds. They have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[jpkb24]

Two words: match list.


Find out the school's match list. If it's trending in the direction you want to go, that's where you should be. If it's not, doesn't matter how prestigious the school is.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Eh. This is my cynicism talking, but money will control politics the way it has always done. And that means corporations will not go out of style.

Thus, smart money forms an S-corporation and writes student loan repayment into the terms of hiring its principle employees (yourself). This makes student loan repayment a tax deductible expense per corporate tax code. This is what big money does and this what physicians should do. Incorporating can turn your whole life into a completely legal tax deduction/CEO benefit.

I think smart people with real skills and the capacity to hire smart accountants and lawyers will be okay. Someone's always going to be on top. Medicine is a reasonable leg up.

Everyone should ignore this post. This is complete nonsense. I am not a physician. I am a CPA with a law degree and there is no way in hell that the IRS would let anybody pull this stunt. The payment of student loan interest for an employee would be recharacterized as wages paid to the employee. The student loan interest would still be nondeductible by the physician employee. The corporation and the employee would also owe FICA and Medicare on this. It wouldn't surprise me if the IRS brought criminal charges in a situation like this.