Is an SMP worth it?

[Retro.viridae]

Hello! I saw someone else post a thread about going to an SMP program and others commented on it saying $50k is too much. The SMP I have been accepted to at Touro in CA is $55k so now I'm a little worried.

Here's my situation: 3.3 cGPA (I haven't calculated my sGPA yet)
Volunteering: Food Bank ~40hrs over a couple years. Toys for Tots while I was in the Marine Corps ~100+ (2009-2013). Hospice since Jan 19, 1 hr per week. Volunteered with disabled people, helping them with chores/grocery trips, etc. ~100 hrs from 2015 to 2019.
Shadowing: none
MCAT: Taking in July right before the SMP starts in August. I'm taking it late because I need to get A's this semester, so I'm putting the majority of studying off until after finals.

I live in a rural area of CA and there aren't many shadowing opportunities. I've spent a lot of time searching but haven't found anything. That's one of the things that appeal to me about the TUCOM MSMHS - they provide shadowing opportunities. I feel like it's a good opportunity to do what I want since my application isn't great. But am I paying too much? On top of the $55k tuition, the cost of living is significant as well. I have 3 kids, our income will drop because my wife will be the sole breadwinner while I do this, and our rent will go from $1300/mo to about $2300/mo. So, is there a better option? I don't see one, but there are much smarter people than I on this forum.

Thanks, guys!

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[Tiran145]

You may not need to do one. All depends on your MCAT. If you do solid on the MCAT 508+ that might be enough to counteract your low GPA and gain admittance to some of the newer DO schools. I personally think that that’s too much to pay! If you need to do grade repai maybe a DIY post bacc is the better way to go.

 

[Goro]

Hello! I saw someone else post a thread about going to an SMP program and others commented on it saying $50k is too much. The SMP I have been accepted to at Touro in CA is $55k so now I'm a little worried.

Here's my situation: 3.3 cGPA (I haven't calculated my sGPA yet)
Volunteering: Food Bank ~40hrs over a couple years. Toys for Tots while I was in the Marine Corps ~100+ (2009-2013). Hospice since Jan 19, 1 hr per week. Volunteered with disabled people, helping them with chores/grocery trips, etc. ~100 hrs from 2015 to 2019.
Shadowing: none
MCAT: Taking in July right before the SMP starts in August. I'm taking it late because I need to get A's this semester, so I'm putting the majority of studying off until after finals.

I live in a rural area of CA and there aren't many shadowing opportunities. I've spent a lot of time searching but haven't found anything. That's one of the things that appeal to me about the TUCOM MSMHS - they provide shadowing opportunities. I feel like it's a good opportunity to do what I want since my application isn't great. But am I paying too much? On top of the $55k tuition, the cost of living is significant as well. I have 3 kids, our income will drop because my wife will be the sole breadwinner while I do this, and our rent will go from $1300/mo to about $2300/mo. So, is there a better option? I don't see one, but there are much smarter people than I on this forum.

Thanks, guys!

First off, many thanks for your service to our country. Semper Fi!

It's worth it only if you're boning for MD and have a high MCAT to go with it. BUT, being a veteran lowers the bar for you. East TN/Qullan loves veterans, for example.

You can also do a DIY post-bac to save on money.

Otherwise, you're fine right now for any DO school, including mine (and Touro-CA, for that matter.)

 

[Retro.viridae]

Thank you both for the responses!

@Goro, Semper fi! I had no idea there were schools that had any sort of preference for veterans. That's encouraging! I'd definitely prefer the MD (because of the bias when applying to residencies), but have no problem going to a DO school either. I just want to be a doctor, so I want to take the route with the highest probability of success.

I don't know if a DIY post-bacc would work for me as I have a lot of units. I've gone to school full time since 2013, including summers. I started off at a community college in the pre-algebra courses and worked my way up through upper division physics at a UC before switching in my junior year to molecular biology. By my calculations a year of A's would raise my GPA by about 0.1. That's what initially made me think an SMP might be a better way to go, because my undergraduate GPA seems pretty set in stone.

Would taking the MCAT in July or August be fine to apply to DO schools this cycle, then? Also, to be clear, you're saying that if I were to want to apply to TN/Qullan, I should do so after an SMP, right? I saw on MSAR that they had matriculants who had similar GPA's, but I assume they were part of the 85% of students who had research experience, or had killer MCATs.

Thank you very much for your time and input! I really appreciate it.

 

[Goro]

Would taking the MCAT in July or August be fine to apply to DO schools this cycle, then? Also, to be clear, you're saying that if I were to want to apply to TN/Qullan, I should do so after an SMP, right? I saw on MSAR that they had matriculants who had similar GPA's, but I assume they were part of the 85% of students who had research experience, or had killer MCATs.

I think that you should apply now to Quillan, given their love of vets.
Taking the MCAT as late as Sept or Oct is still not too late for the DO cycle. But for mD, early August is the latest.

 

[Retro.viridae]

Hey @Goro! Thanks again for the advice. I just wanted to ask you a quick question - I was calculating my sGPA and realized I made a mistake in my cGPA. My cGPA is 3.23 and my sGPA is 3.18 (with 165 units, so I don't think either will go up much). Would you still recommend not going to the SMP and applying this cycle or does that change things? Thanks again!

 

[Goro]

It's not about the GPAs anymore.

 

[hungrydoc710]

MCAT is what it comes down to

 

[hungrydoc710]

Hey @Goro! Thanks again for the advice. I just wanted to ask you a quick question - I was calculating my sGPA and realized I made a mistake in my cGPA. My cGPA is 3.23 and my sGPA is 3.18 (with 165 units, so I don't think either will go up much). Would you still recommend not going to the SMP and applying this cycle or does that change things? Thanks again!

Your GPA is low side even for newest DO schools, you'll need 502+.
Don't take until you're rocking 505's on practice exams.
Good luck.

 

[Retro.viridae]

Your GPA is low side even for newest DO schools, you'll need 502+.
Don't take until you're rocking 505's on practice exams.
Good luck.

Thanks @hungrydoc710. I'll definitely make sure of that!

 

[Retro.viridae]

Hey @Goro! I just wanted to check in with you, as I got my MCAT score back yesterday and submitted my application for DO schools. I know it's been a while, so sorry about that!

My plan is to only apply DO, considering the low GPA (cGPA 3.22, sGPA: 3.18 AACOMAS, 3.11 AMCAS), meh MCAT (511), and the fact that it's after Labor Day. Is this a good plan? My wife wants me to apply to MD schools (because she wants me to add more CA schools to my list), but I really don't think my application is good enough AND it's too late. I just want to make sure from someone with more knowledge that not applying to MD schools is a good idea.

BTW, I did end up turning down the SMP. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Shotapp]

Hey @Goro! I just wanted to check in with you, as I got my MCAT score back yesterday and submitted my application for DO schools. I know it's been a while, so sorry about that!

My plan is to only apply DO, considering the low GPA (cGPA 3.22, sGPA: 3.18 AACOMAS, 3.11 AMCAS), meh MCAT (511), and the fact that it's after Labor Day. Is this a good plan? My wife wants me to apply to MD schools (because she wants me to add more CA schools to my list), but I really don't think my application is good enough AND it's too late. I just want to make sure from someone with more knowledge that not applying to MD schools is a good idea.

BTW, I did end up turning down the SMP. Thanks for the advice!

You're competitive for DO schools. Focus on DO. It's too late for MD and CA schools are hard to get into with those stats.

 

[hungrydoc710]

Hey @Goro! I just wanted to check in with you, as I got my MCAT score back yesterday and submitted my application for DO schools. I know it's been a while, so sorry about that!

My plan is to only apply DO, considering the low GPA (cGPA 3.22, sGPA: 3.18 AACOMAS, 3.11 AMCAS), meh MCAT (511), and the fact that it's after Labor Day. Is this a good plan? My wife wants me to apply to MD schools (because she wants me to add more CA schools to my list), but I really don't think my application is good enough AND it's too late. I just want to make sure from someone with more knowledge that not applying to MD schools is a good idea.

BTW, I did end up turning down the SMP. Thanks for the advice!

Your GPA is the reason you won't get in MD, not your MCAT.
That MCAT is the only reason you will get multiple DO interviews, without it, the GPA would sink you.

 

[Retro.viridae]

Thanks, @Shotapp and @hungrydoc710! Appreciate the confirmation. I am going to stick with just DO schools.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You were in the marines. I would throw out at least a handful of MD apps, even this late. It's just money at this point.

 

[Retro.viridae]

You were in the marines. I would throw out at least a handful of MD apps, even this late. It's just money at this point.

I do have the fee waiver, so it's not even really money I'm worried about. I am just thinking, what if I have to re-apply next year? If I don't apply MD this year then I'm not a re-applicant, right? So I figured it's better to save those schools for next cycle since I'm already late for MD anyways. Is that dumb of me, though?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I do have the fee waiver, so it's not even really money I'm worried about. I am just thinking, what if I have to re-apply next year? If I don't apply MD this year then I'm not a re-applicant, right? So I figured it's better to save those schools for next cycle since I'm already late for MD anyways. Is that dumb of me, though?

I think you get into multiple DO schools unless you have some significant red flags you aren't telling us

 

[Retro.viridae]

I think you get into multiple DO schools unless you have some significant red flags you aren't telling us

I hope not! I think I might have one... I took OChem II again my last semester because I had a C- in it. I only got a C+. Other than that, my last 9 classes were A's. Is that a red flag?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I hope not! I think I might have one... I took OChem II again my last semester because I had a C- in it. I only got a C+. Other than that, my last 9 classes were A's. Is that a red flag?

You're good.

 

[Retro.viridae]

You're good.

Noice. Thanks for the advice/help!

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro! I just wanted to check in with you, as I got my MCAT score back yesterday and submitted my application for DO schools. I know it's been a while, so sorry about that!

My plan is to only apply DO, considering the low GPA (cGPA 3.22, sGPA: 3.18 AACOMAS, 3.11 AMCAS), meh MCAT (511), and the fact that it's after Labor Day. Is this a good plan? My wife wants me to apply to MD schools (because she wants me to add more CA schools to my list), but I really don't think my application is good enough AND it's too late. I just want to make sure from someone with more knowledge that not applying to MD schools is a good idea.

BTW, I did end up turning down the SMP. Thanks for the advice!

Your GPAs are lethal for MD and a number DO schools as well, including mine, sadly.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Your GPAs are lethal for MD and a number DO schools as well, including mine, sadly.

Even for a marine?

 

[Retro.viridae]

Your GPAs are lethal for MD and a number DO schools as well, including mine, sadly.

Awe, that stinks. Idc about the MD schools but I was hoping to have a chance at a good number of DO schools.

 

[Goro]

Awe, that stinks. Idc about the MD schools but I was hoping to have a chance at a good number of DO schools.

I had forgotten about the veteran status....but given your low sGPA, I fear that you would struggle in med school

 

[Retro.viridae]

I had forgotten about the veteran status....but given your low sGPA, I fear that you would struggle in med school

Would the fact that I scored 96th percentile in B/B help at all to ease adcom's concerns about my ability to grasp scientific concepts? Or am I doomed?

Edit: wrong percentile

 

[BobbyKoch]

511, 3.2ish GPAs with upward trend, USMC service... pretty solid DO application I would think.

Did you ever get any shadowing? Specifically, DO shadowing and letter from same? It would be really good to get this in before interviews if at all possible. Showing up in person and asking for the office manager over the phone is what worked for me in terms of getting a few shadowing hours. You only need a day or two, imo.

If I were you, I would strongly consider taking this year and adding more As to your upward trend if you can afford it. Get your shadowing, clinician letters of rec, accrue more hospice volunteering, apply 1st day AMCAS and AACOMAS next cycle and see what happens. Good luck to you!!!

 

[Goro]

Would the fact that I scored 96th percentile in B/B help at all to ease adcom's concerns about my ability to grasp scientific concepts? Or am I doomed?

Edit: wrong percentile

You can't focus on single metrics
All that test result says is that you studied very hard for a single category.

 

[Retro.viridae]

511, 3.2ish GPAs with upward trend, USMC service... pretty solid DO application I would think.

Did you ever get any shadowing? Specifically, DO shadowing and letter from same? It would be really good to get this in before interviews if at all possible. Showing up in person and asking for the office manager over the phone is what worked for me in terms of getting a few shadowing hours. You only need a day or two, imo.

If I were you, I would strongly consider taking this year and adding more As to your upward trend if you can afford it. Get your shadowing, clinician letters of rec, accrue more hospice volunteering, apply 1st day AMCAS and AACOMAS next cycle and see what happens. Good luck to you!!!

Yes, I did get shadowing! Two DO physicians (one FM and one surgeon). I got a letter from the surgeon. I already applied for this cycle for DO schools (I may have misunderstood the advice at the beginning of this thread, when I thought I was told I wouldn't need the SMP and that it's mostly my MCAT score at this point that I should be worried about). YOLO, I guess.

 

[Retro.viridae]

You can't focus on single metrics
All that test result says is that you studied very hard for a single category.

Earlier in the thread I told you my GPA's and you said "it's not about the GPA's anymore" (and @hungrydoc710 said that MCAT is what it comes down to). Was he incorrect in that you meant something else? I'm confused haha. Thanks for bearing with me, I know I probably just misunderstood you guys.

 

[BobbyKoch]

Yes, I did get shadowing! Two DO physicians (one FM and one surgeon). I got a letter from the surgeon. I already applied for this cycle for DO schools (I may have misunderstood the advice at the beginning of this thread, when I thought I was told I wouldn't need the SMP and that it's mostly my MCAT score at this point that I should be worried about). YOLO, I guess.

nice! I predict you will get accepted somewhere this cycle.

 

[Retro.viridae]

nice! I predict you will get accepted somewhere this cycle.

Thanks! I appreciate that!

 

[hungrydoc710]

Earlier in the thread I told you my GPA's and you said "it's not about the GPA's anymore" (and @hungrydoc710 said that MCAT is what it comes down to). Was he incorrect in that you meant something else? I'm confused haha. Thanks for bearing with me, I know I probably just misunderstood you guys.

You're good bro. I said it would depend on your MCAT and you crushed it.
Apply broadly and decide what interviews you decide to take on.

Realize that having no choice really but to go thru DO route, you are semi-limited in fields going forward.

Congrats on MCAT again!

 

[Retro.viridae]

You're good bro. I said it would depend on your MCAT and you crushed it.
Apply broadly and decide what interviews you decide to take on.

Realize that having no choice really but to go thru DO route, you are semi-limited in fields going forward.

Congrats on MCAT again!

Thanks! That's very reassuring. I definitely don't mind being limited in fields. I honestly want to do either primary care or emergency medicine. I just want to be a doctor haha.

 

[hungrydoc710]

Thanks! That's very reassuring. I definitely don't mind being limited in fields. I honestly want to do either primary care or emergency medicine. I just want to be a doctor haha.

You and I both - best mentality to have!

 

[Retro.viridae]

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for the advice and positive words of encouragement! Got 4 interview invitations so far. I've been to one of them and just got the acceptance today!

I know you guys probably don't remember this old thread, but I just wanted to thank you because I found your comments helpful! I'm so excited to finally say that I'm going to be a doctor!

 

[Goro]

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for the advice and positive words of encouragement! Got 4 interview invitations so far. I've been to one of them and just got the acceptance today!

I know you guys probably don't remember this old thread, but I just wanted to thank you because I found your comments helpful! I'm so excited to finally say that I'm going to be a doctor!

Goro fist bump time!


Now go read this:

• Goro's Guide to Success in Medical School (2018 edition)

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for the advice and positive words of encouragement! Got 4 interview invitations so far. I've been to one of them and just got the acceptance today!

I know you guys probably don't remember this old thread, but I just wanted to thank you because I found your comments helpful! I'm so excited to finally say that I'm going to be a doctor!

Congratulations! And thank you for your service. I always like applicants with military experience. They dont shrink from adversity and can set goals and achieve them. Good luck and best wishes. I wish you were at our school!