Is anesthesiology residency really that impossible to get in???

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trevagandalf

trevagandalf

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So, I guess I'm in an earlier stage compared to most other posters here because i'm a MS2 who is just now realizing that I might really like anesthegiology afterall. The problem is that I kind of screw up my MS1 year. After I got into Medical school I slacked off, and I'm probably in the 3rd quartile of my class right now. But I know I can do better because I have been doing fairly okay in all of my test even though I usually procrastinate until the last 4 days before the test and I have a good memory. I know that I haven't started my rotations yet, so I really don't have to make up my mind yet, and I really just kept putting off thinking about residencies until this summer when I realized that I probably would not have the grade to get into a lot of the most competitive residencies. All the upperclassmen tell me that you have to be the top of your class to get into anesthegiology and I was just wondering if I still have a chance compared to all the other straight A gunners in my class last year... Or should I do one of those take a year off during research programs before the MS3-year to help me increase my chances of getting into the anesthegiology residency in my school. thanks...
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anesthesiology especially, but really medicine period, deserves your A game. the responsibility and liability are huge. its time to step it up big time. there is still lots of time to raise your gpa so get to work. you have to do well on the boards as well. you can match into anesthesiology if you get your act together now. i know a person who matched with middle of the road class rank and average board scores but they did aways and sicu rotations and worked really hard. it can be done, anes is competitive, but you should be able to match somewhere if you step it up from here on out.
 
All the upperclassmen tell me that you have to be the top of your class to get into anesthegiology.
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Sorry, but that's a load of BS.

Although this year's students and last year's students have been all worked up about how "competitive" the field is getting, the truth is that an average student with average boards at an average US medical school should be able to get a residency somewhere. From what I remember, US MD students have like a 96% match rate. Most likely if you want to go into anesthesiology you will be able to do it. This is not like rad-onc or plastics.

Work on getting an average or above USMLE score (i.e. >200, >220 if you want above average) this year. Get First Aid for Step 1 and whatever else you want for boards (BRS Physio and BRS Pharm should be more than enough) and slowly go through them while studying for classes your second year.

My first and second year and almost all of my clerkship grades put me in the lower 50% of my class. In the big picture, after adding my USMLE, some aways and some well written letters, I still interviewed almost everywhere and I now work at a supposedly "top" program. It's neither mysterious nor impossible, although you wouldn't guess that from the hype people drum up.
 
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thanks for all the reassurance, i definetely have to step it up a notch next year...
 
I know a dude who passed the boards by one point and matched

There's over a thousand spots so it can't be that hard
 
there are so many anesthesiology programs so it isn't hard to get in somewhere. there is also huge variation in the quality of programs, in mho. the top programs are competitive but and average student can get in somewhere.
 
this is the way i see it. nationally your odds of getting into meds were what, 1 in 2 nationally (assuming average stats). and your odds of landing a gas res is like greater than 9 in 10 (assume fairly average stats). those are pretty good odds to you ask me. unless of course you wanna go into one of those super-hyped top tier programs, of which there are like 20 or so in the whole damn country you'll be fine. stay copacetic:thumbup:!
 
I have a feeling that anesthesiology is going to get more and more competitive over the years. Seems like more people are becoming interested in it these days.
 
It is definitely not impossible by any means, based on the average Step 1 scores at least. But there are a lot of applicants overall (there is a large number of positions, too), and increasingly these applicants are getting more competitive, so this makes for a harder match in light of the fact that one will be competing against stronger applicants.

Numerous faculty at my school's program were very pleased with the number of high quality students who matched this year. Without a doubt more competitive that in years past, but is it anywhere near derm, rads or any of the surgical subspecialties? No. A solid (average?) applicant will match somewhere, at least that is what I have been told.
 
Its definitely not getting "impossible" but rather harder from what I have heard. Even when comparing my schools recent match list to those in the past, it appears that we didn't do all that great in the match for anesthesia though still had people go to great programs. This could be either due to the credentials of the applicants or assuming that the students were the same from year to year, that its gotten harder than in the past for the more top programs. That being said, I think 100% of the people interested in anesthesia from my school match into it.
 
Not that I am an expert in the subject but keep in mind, med students bring the competitiveness hype every year. Its nothing new. I observed this just on reading archived posts on SDN. Med students lie a lot too because they want to decrease the pool of applicants. I don't blame them, I would love to see the pool decrease myself... but its not my character to lie. From what I gathered (and trust me I read a lot into this) there is only 2 circumstances you HAVE to be a superstar to match.

1. Applying to the really big name programs with tons of research grants.
2. IMG/FMG and to a lesser extent DO.

But if you're a US med grad and you have a decent transcript (as in no failures/unprofessionalism/ect.) with >200 step1, statistically you are very likely to match. Might not be at a big name place with tons of research grants but you'll match. NRMP Charting outcomes in the match. Google it.
 
Yeah, it can be said that an average applicant to anesthesia will match, but they will probably be somewhere "undesirable" right? I'm sure programs on the west coast, east coast, and chicago are tough to match into.
 
badasshairday said:
Yeah, it can be said that an average applicant to anesthesia will match, but they will probably be somewhere "undesirable" right? I'm sure programs on the west coast, east coast, and chicago are tough to match into.
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I think it depends on your definition of "tough". My take on the whole thing is thus:

1) There are probably "minimum standards" an applicant needs in order to get an interview at a "good program"; and

2) These standards are probably much lower than what everybody thinks.
 
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scotchnwater said:
I think it depends on your definition of "tough". My take on the whole thing is thus:

1) There are probably "minimum standards" an applicant needs in order to get an interview at a "good program"; and

2) These standards are probably much lower than what everybody thinks.
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By tough, I mean high step 1 in general. I would assume that spots in places like California are extremely competitive like step 1 scores of like 235+ on average for people that match there.

There are a lot of anesthesia programs, so yeah, I see what everyone is saying that if you want to do it and you are an average applicant you should be able to get in somewhere.
 
badasshairday said:
... I would assume that spots in places like California are extremely competitive like step 1 scores of like 235+ on average for people that match there...
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That's exactly my point: people assume that it's much tougher to get in to certain programs than it actually is. I can assure you I did not have a Step I that high, and I got interviews at very solid places.

I think reality says that, while somewhat competitive, it's not as tough to get a good spot as people would like to think.
 
Just look at the "charting the match" document. There were about 1000 us seniors who matched, with only 66 not matching! Matching into anesthesia is cake. It is one of the least competitive specialties out there.

The data from Charting the Match parallels the data from my school very closely. From my school, there were 51 students that matched into anesthesia over the last 4 years. Only 7 were from the top quartile, 11 from the 2nd, 18 from the third and 15 from the bottom quartile of the class. That is 18 from the top half and 33 from the bottom half of the class! Step 1 scores are similar, with 30/51 having scores of <230. If you include neurosurg, optho, and urology, Anesthesia is in the bottom third of all specialties based on Step 1 scores.

I often think about why this is? They have a good life and a good salary. I think it's fun being in the OR. Your patients are generally happy with your services. Hours are good, with the trend towards no call and just shift work. Relatively short residency at 4 yrs. Why so easy?
 
radoncadonc said:
Just look at the "charting the match" document. There were about 1000 us seniors who matched, with only 66 not matching! Matching into anesthesia is cake. It is one of the least competitive specialties out there.

The data from Charting the Match parallels the data from my school very closely. From my school, there were 51 students that matched into anesthesia over the last 4 years. Only 7 were from the top quartile, 11 from the 2nd, 18 from the third and 15 from the bottom quartile of the class. That is 18 from the top half and 33 from the bottom half of the class! Step 1 scores are similar, with 30/51 having scores of <230. If you include neurosurg, optho, and urology, Anesthesia is in the bottom third of all specialties based on Step 1 scores.

I often think about why this is? They have a good life and a good salary. I think it's fun being in the OR. Your patients are generally happy with your services. Hours are good, with the trend towards no call and just shift work. Relatively short residency at 4 yrs. Why so easy?
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And lets not forget the fact that it doesn't smell nearly as bad in the OR as compared to on the wards.

That being said, I may be contradicting myself from a previous post, but I do think its getting more competitive to get into Gas. It'll take a while, but it'll get up there in difficulty over the next few years. I'm not saying it is now, but I think its trending that way. (as applicants drift towards specialties which give them more controllable hours, better pay, etc)
 
ozzie20 said:
And lets not forget the fact that it doesn't smell nearly as bad in the OR as compared to on the wards.

That being said, I may be contradicting myself from a previous post, but I do think its getting more competitive to get into Gas. It'll take a while, but it'll get up there in difficulty over the next few years. I'm not saying it is now, but I think its trending that way. (as applicants drift towards specialties which give them more controllable hours, better pay, etc)
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To play the devil's advocate, we all know that political climate and media articles are all it takes to send a specialty's recruiting ability into the crapper. Anyone remember the mid 90's?
 
I am dead set on Anesthesia. In terms of competitiveness, yeah if you want to go to Northwestern Memorial or UChicago....then even Family Medicine is killer. But just to give a small insight, I have received three emails in the past few weeks for people to volunteer for positions in our school's Anesthesia Interest Group. Apparently not even 4 people out of a class of 150 are interested. And it seems to me that this trend is similar at other schools. Whenever I tell people I like GAS, they give me nasty looks and try and convince me out of it.

But my only concern is about getting a pain or critical care fellowship out of a program that is not heavily research oriented. Any thoughts?
 
My school is the opposite. 2005 there were only 8, 2008 there were over 20 (I think only 2 didn't match), and this year seems even bigger. I think its not till 2nd half of 3rd year most people even consider the thought of anesthesia, and then the flood gates open. Of course this could just be a regional thing. Its all hearsay anyways. I might start a forum with hard numbers if I have time later tonight.
 
to throw in my $0.02. I'm an MS4, the class that just graduated had 12 out of a class of 120ish match into gas, which is a lot. However this year only 4 of us are definitely applying to it. It really is cyclical and very school dependent.
I also get the "woah, I hear anesthesia is getting so competitive" spiel from my classmates and others, but I wouldn't make too much of it. Think about it, our odds of getting a gas residency are a lot higher than our odds were of getting into med school eh?
 
badasshairday said:
I have a feeling that anesthesiology is going to get more and more competitive over the years. Seems like more people are becoming interested in it these days.
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This is exactly the kind of unfounded speculation (from an MS1 no less!) that leads to the annual "Anesthesiology is getting so competitive OMG!" hype.
 
Colba55o said:
to throw in my $0.02. I'm an MS4, the class that just graduated had 12 out of a class of 120ish match into gas, which is a lot. However this year only 4 of us are definitely applying to it. It really is cyclical and very school dependent.
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Well, considering that 7% of all residency spots are in anesthesiology and you're talking about 10% of your class being "a lot"...
 
ut oh...on the front page of the SDN forums page, it lists how many people are viewing each forum. As far as phys/resident forums, anesthesiology has the most current viewers (42). Surgery is second (40) and IM is third (22). hope you all have step 1s >250 like me :D mwahaha
 
You ignore 4 important facts:
1) Anesthesiology forum is actually entertaining so more people will read (just check how many forums are about cases/money making schemes/ect. compared to "how competitive am I" posts like in the radiology forums).
2) Anesthesiology have a lot more computer/free time compared to I don't know...Surgeons?
3) A fresh breed of anesthesia students are here for the season... Surgery/medicine/peds is old news... those rotations happen at any time of the year. But there is a huge flux of anesthesia students during the new 4th year electives that have no idea what they are doing, or lack information about the career so they come swarming on the forums.
4) I feel anesthesiologists/residents/students on average are more tech suavy than your average medicine guy.

Plus views do not dictate competitiveness. By your logics 3 people are viewing derm so it must be a cake wake to get into this year. That FMG with 2 failed board attempts def. has a shot at derm this year. Wow who would thought?
 
Colba55o said:
... Think about it, our odds of getting a gas residency are a lot higher than our odds were of getting into med school eh?
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I'm going to build an altar to this saying, and then keep chanting it over and over.

... and I hope you're right! :D
 
step I >220. U can go pretty much anywhere in the country.
 
titanjones said:
step I >220. U can go pretty much anywhere in the country.
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you may get your pick of location city-wise but i doubt that score gets you in anywhere you want - residency wise
 
EternalMD said:
you may get your pick of location city-wise but i doubt that score gets you in anywhere you want - residency wise
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I'd say Titan's opinion is actually pretty accurate. Anesthesia isn't Derm/Plastics/ENT/Rad Onc...

Are you basing your opinion on an actual experience or the fact that everyone else on here has a 270+ Step I with Jr. AOA and 5 publications?
 
Based on what my friends have gone through during the previous years match. There would be many things that factor into the match but I know of one person who matched at a good program (#7-9ish on his rank list) but didn't get any of the NYC positions he wanted (columbia, NYU, cornell, etc) despite a 220+ step 1. Another student matched at a program which isn't great/not bad either but from what others had told me, he had a 230ish score. So based on that, I made the assumption that 220+ doesn't equal match

Actually to revise my previous statement, i do think that 220+ can get your interviews at most of these competitive locations. Whether you make the final cut or not would depend on other factors
 
scotchnwater said:
I'd say Titan's opinion is actually pretty accurate. Anesthesia isn't Derm/Plastics/ENT/Rad Onc...

Are you basing your opinion on an actual experience or the fact that everyone else on here has a 270+ Step I with Jr. AOA and 5 publications?
Click to expand...

You didn't hear? This year is even more competitive. Average step I to even get an interview is around 290. If 1 of your classes is simply a pass or high pass... you have some serious explaining to do during interview, that is if of course, if your lucky enough to get one.
 
RxBoy said:
You didn't hear? This year is even more competitive. Average step I to even get an interview is around 290. If 1 of your classes is simply a pass or high pass... you have some serious explaining to do during interview, that is if of course, if your lucky enough to get one.
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i think you are off RxBoy....i think for this year... you need a step I & II of 299, AOA, a perfect 4.0, a PhD or an MBA, an olympic medal, to get an interview.
 
i heard even michael phelps had to scramble into some community program in the middle of the mojave desert
 
radoncadonc said:
Just look at the "charting the match" document. There were about 1000 us seniors who matched, with only 66 not matching! Matching into anesthesia is cake. It is one of the least competitive specialties out there.

The data from Charting the Match parallels the data from my school very closely. From my school, there were 51 students that matched into anesthesia over the last 4 years. Only 7 were from the top quartile, 11 from the 2nd, 18 from the third and 15 from the bottom quartile of the class. That is 18 from the top half and 33 from the bottom half of the class! Step 1 scores are similar, with 30/51 having scores of <230. If you include neurosurg, optho, and urology, Anesthesia is in the bottom third of all specialties based on Step 1 scores.

I often think about why this is? They have a good life and a good salary. I think it's fun being in the OR. Your patients are generally happy with your services. Hours are good, with the trend towards no call and just shift work. Relatively short residency at 4 yrs. Why so easy?
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I agree.

Anesthesia is NOT competetive.

It is more competetive compared to the mid 90's, but that was when they would pretty much accept high school students into residency programs.

I find it laughable when med students say how competetive anesthesia is, but honestly, I thought the same thing when I applied.

Truth is there are so many anesthesia spots.

You might need >230 to match at a top 5 program, but the numbers quickly drop thereafter.

I'm at a solid university program and I was shocked that most residents in my class have 210-220 scores. There are even some 200's!!

I can't imagine how low the scores are in smaller university or community programs, but judging from some bottom feeders that matched from my class, I suspect 190's are not uncommon.

Plus, there lots of DO's in anesthesia programs, even univeristy programs. Do they even take Step 1?

Competetive? No. Hyped? Yes.
 
jumpingjax said:
Plus, there lots of DO's in anesthesia programs, even univeristy programs.
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Hello, I see you are a new member. Welcome to the best forum on the internet. As a new member you should probably avoid insulting people on here at first and acting like a dickhead. Once you have been here a good long while and/or made a number of productive posts you will be given some slack.
 
jumpingjax said:
I agree.

Anesthesia is NOT competetive.

It is more competetive compared to the mid 90's, but that was when they would pretty much accept high school students into residency programs.

I find it laughable when med students say how competetive anesthesia is, but honestly, I thought the same thing when I applied.

Truth is there are so many anesthesia spots.

You might need >230 to match at a top 5 program, but the numbers quickly drop thereafter.

I'm at a solid university program and I was shocked that most residents in my class have 210-220 scores. There are even some 200's!!

I can't imagine how low the scores are in smaller university or community programs, but judging from some bottom feeders that matched from my class, I suspect 190's are not uncommon.

Plus, there lots of DO's in anesthesia programs, even univeristy programs. Do they even take Step 1?

Competetive? No. Hyped? Yes.
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DO students do take the USMLE if they want to get into allopathic programs.

When did you apply to residency if you don't mind me asking? was it recent or was it like 3 or 4years ago or even later? Things change pretty quickly and although anesthesia has a ton of spots when compared with other ROAD residencies, it's still not a lot of spots considering the volume of people applying. Also the national Step1 averages are going up every year so just by that it's getting harder because more people are scoring better, just like it's getting harder and harder to get into a US medical schools every year. And more and more IMG's are scoring 240+ on step1, and I know that most program directors would still pick US grad with a 210 step1 over a carib grad with a 240, but still it should make a US student a little scared if they know they're competing with people who got 240's for the same spot.

just my 2 cents, I hope you're right and everything is as you say about applying and getting into anesthesia but some how i don't think it will be.
 
Arch Guillotti said:
Hello, I see you are a new member. Welcome to the best forum on the internet. As a new member you should probably avoid insulting people on here at first and acting like a dickhead. Once you have been here a good long while and/or made a number of productive posts you will be given some slack.
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Sorry thuglife, just being honest.
 
radoncadonc said:
Just look at the "charting the match" document. There were about 1000 us seniors who matched, with only 66 not matching! Matching into anesthesia is cake. It is one of the least competitive specialties out there.

The data from Charting the Match parallels the data from my school very closely. From my school, there were 51 students that matched into anesthesia over the last 4 years. Only 7 were from the top quartile, 11 from the 2nd, 18 from the third and 15 from the bottom quartile of the class. That is 18 from the top half and 33 from the bottom half of the class! Step 1 scores are similar, with 30/51 having scores of <230. If you include neurosurg, optho, and urology, Anesthesia is in the bottom third of all specialties based on Step 1 scores.

I often think about why this is? They have a good life and a good salary. I think it's fun being in the OR. Your patients are generally happy with your services. Hours are good, with the trend towards no call and just shift work. Relatively short residency at 4 yrs. Why so easy?
Click to expand...


Answer: AANA and the soon to be DNAP CRNA

Blade
 
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