Is becoming a physician a financial high risk maneuver?

[TOMFighter]

The average houehold income is around $48,200. Per couple, that means they are making around $12- 13/hr.

or 6 to 6.50 per person/hr

I don't know where people are getting these huge debt figures. It's pretty stupid to go to these brand name schools IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT (i.e. if it makes you go into debt.) - just go to a **** state school and be on top of the **** (which is easier to do anyway). Hell, any person going for medicine probably has good high school credentials and can go through state school for free.

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[TOMFighter]

Unless, of course, you go into primary care, in which case you're screwed....which is also why people don't go into PC in large number anymore.[/quote]

Anyone have that vomit emoticon I can borrow?

Unless you've taken a poor paying academic peds position fresh out of residency and youre saddled with >200K in debt, I wouldnt be inclined to worry too much and even then you should be making ends meet. For the average new physician, having an inability to pay your loans back on 120K should require you get your head or living situation examined. Obviously there's always that case where she had three kids before med school and her husband cant work, but for the average new physician...be serious.[/quote]


I agree. Docs were never good at math. They're always better at abstract thinking. Even PC is lucrative. I think there are just too many people comparing themselves to 50 cent, or somebody. Besides, your physician income is A GREAT BOOST to allow you to USE MONEY TO MAKE MONEY.

This is the internet, so misinformation will be spread. I read on one site that "doctors make 500K, but they pay 470K in expenses, so they're really only making 30K/yr." LMAO. It's actually a good thing that people spread this kind of b.s.

 

[jbrice1639]

Hell, any person going for medicine probably has good high school credentials and can go through state school for free.

what state do you live in? that certainly isn't the case in illinois - or many other states for that matter...

 

[45408]

Hell, any person going for medicine probably has good high school credentials and can go through state school for free.

Or not. It wasn't until the end of my junior year in college that they started throwing scholarship money my way (and I had to pursue it aggressively).

 

[McGillGrad]

In Florida, all you need is a 3.5 GPA, volunteer hours and a decent SAT and your state tuition is almost paid for. That is a sweet deal. I wish I could have taken advantage of that.

 

[TOMFighter]

Or not. It wasn't until the end of my junior year in college that they started throwing scholarship money my way (and I had to pursue it aggressively).

For the record, I went to Cornell U., and would have had 200K in debt from that if my parents didn't pay....

But I could have gone to my state school for free....I was valedictorian, had great ACT, ECs, etc. And, if I couldn't afford Cornell, I would have just gone to my state school

One last thing I want to add is this: There are so many Docs that just aren't business saavy at all. Medicine IS BUSINESS. Plenty of PC docs can do as well as specialty Docs. My grandfather was in Peds and was doing 300K/yr gross.

 

[45408]

But I could have gone to my state school for free....I was valedictorian, had great ACT, ECs, etc. And, if I couldn't afford Cornell, I would have just gone to my state school

The two valedictorians in my high school were definitely smarter than me - especially in math, which is where they usually beat me - so that just wasn't an option. Besides, it wouldn't have gotten me free tuition anyways (some, I think, but not all).

And I didn't get any money from my parents. They actually still owe me $3000.

 

[MSKalltheway]

And I didn't get any money from my parents. They actually still owe me $3000.

 

[jbrice1639]

But I could have gone to my state school for free....I was valedictorian, had great ACT, ECs, etc. And, if I couldn't afford Cornell, I would have just gone to my state school

again, that's not available to everyone. i was a valedictorian, national merit, high sat/act, all that other crap, and i DID go to my state school, and it was NOT free. the scholarships that all of those high school achievements brought me paid for about 30% of my tuition. so assuming that all high-achieving students have access to free college educations is absurd.

 

[frikarika]

For the record, I went to Cornell U., and would have had 200K in debt from that if my parents didn't pay....

But I could have gone to my state school for free....I was valedictorian, had great ACT, ECs, etc. And, if I couldn't afford Cornell, I would have just gone to my state school

One last thing I want to add is this: There are so many Docs that just aren't business saavy at all. Medicine IS BUSINESS. Plenty of PC docs can do as well as specialty Docs. My grandfather was in Peds and was doing 300K/yr gross.

yeah...you need to tone it down a bit. I will agree with you that as physicians we will be fine, but you were blessed with rich parents and that has made things easier for you. I still have 25k in undergrad debt (I worked during undergrad to pay most of it off), and I am expecting another 160K debt for med school, with not contribution from my parents. I know I will be ok, but you can understand why many people are uneasy about their futures.

 

[Law2Doc]

yeah...you need to tone it down a bit. I will agree with you that as physicians we will be fine, but you were blessed with rich parents and that has made things easier for you. I still have 25k in undergrad debt (I worked during undergrad to pay most of it off), and I am expecting another 160K debt for med school, with not contribution from my parents. I know I will be ok, but you can understand why many people are uneasy about their futures.

The average med school debt these days is about 150k and rising. There are lots of people who borrow more than the average. I know quite a few folks who are a quarter million in debt in student loans. Not everyone can go to a state school -- each takes only about 150 students, and not everyone has family money. It's not hard to see how student debt can take a bit out of future earnings. You should still be able to service this debt on a physician's income if spread out over enough years, but this plays a role in each subsequent generation not likely to net as much as the prior ones.

 

[DrDre311]

For the record, I went to Cornell U., and would have had 200K in debt from that if my parents didn't pay....

But I could have gone to my state school for free....I was valedictorian, had great ACT, ECs, etc. And, if I couldn't afford Cornell, I would have just gone to my state school. Plus, I'm a troll and get my nuts off arguing with people over the internet. Feed me, please.

One last thing I want to add is this: There are so many Docs that just aren't business saavy at all. Medicine IS BUSINESS. Plenty of PC docs can do as well as specialty Docs. My grandfather was in Peds and was doing 300K/yr gross.

This guy's a troll. Read his other posts. Hell, read the threads he started about how people shouldn't gun because, hey, there's a 60% match rate in derm (nothing to worry about there, right?) and of course it's a well known fact that docs are the richest people in Canada.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[TOMFighter]

This guy's a troll. Read his other posts. Hell, read the threads he started about how people shouldn't gun because, hey, there's a 60% match rate in derm (nothing to worry about there, right?) and of course it's a well known fact that docs are the richest people in Canada.

Don't feed the troll.

This is really funny considering that every board I visit, I've always been accused of being a troll. I think it's because many posts of mine are made in a state of mania, and seem unrealistically emphatic.

 

[cfdavid]

I agree. I know of a few people that left 6 figure management level jobs to go into medicine. Money is not everything. Success is not everything (well, in sports it is). Doing what one enjoys is what matters. People are not the same at the age of 30 when they were 20 or 21 years old.

It is VERY common for people to change careers (CAREERS NOT JOBS) at least a couple of times during the adult working life.

Life is to short to stick with something you dislike.

To the OP, this isn't anything knew. 20 and 30 year loan repayment plans will be common. The amount of money a doctor will have at the end of each month will determine on the lifestyle, area of living, and the area the doctor works in (derm vs. internal med).

It's too short, but TOO LONG to "live for the weekends" like many people do. SO many people stay in jobs because it's comfortable, never having any real passion for what they do in life. Some are cool with this. It works for them.
To each their own. But, for many of us that approach to life is not compatible.

 

[45408]

This is really funny considering that every board I visit, I've always been accused of being a troll. I think it's because many posts of mine are made in a state of mania, and seem unrealistically emphatic.

Okay, so that means you're not a troll.

 

[TheRealMD]

Last I checked, the average American or American household wasn't coping too well with $4 gas. And everyone is deeply cautious about another storm hitting the Gulf Coast and raising that price even higher.

Again, only an observation.

 

[sirus_virus]

For the record, I went to Cornell U., and would have had 200K in debt from that if my parents didn't pay....

But I could have gone to my state school for free....I was valedictorian, had great ACT, ECs, etc. And, if I couldn't afford Cornell, I would have just gone to my state school

One last thing I want to add is this: There are so many Docs that just aren't business saavy at all. Medicine IS BUSINESS. Plenty of PC docs can do as well as specialty Docs. My grandfather was in Peds and was doing 300K/yr gross.

Dude, you might just be suffering from headinrectum syndrome.

 

[DrDre311]

Dude, you might just be suffering from headinrectum syndrome.

Somebody call Faebinder, he's a craniorectologist. As far the other, there's a post on this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=524366
that has a few links to different websites showing average physician compensation by specialty in different countries. I think it's educational.

 

[kdburton]

http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/jan08/debt.htm

"In a worst-case scenario, the 2007 report update estimated that in 2033, physicians who opt for the standard 10-year loan repayment plan would see half of their after-tax earnings going to loan repayment"

I am no genius but all these reports from the AAMC seem to point to one thing and one thing only, poverty awaits this generation of physicians.

In this report by 2031 physicians might be coughing up 61% of after tax income in just loan repayment.

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version35.pdf&prd_id=121&prv_id=137&pdf_id=35

So if debt is growing by 8.3% and income is growing by only 0.6%, basic math says physicians are in serious trouble. How are our medical schools responding to this? They hike the tuition even more. This is beginning to look like the back in the day Vegas mobsters who loan you money they know you cant pay.

Well I don't necessarily think it is our generation that has to worry about it since this article makes projections into the mid 2030s and current med student will be graduating, at the latest, by 2011. Also those debt growth numbers were projections from a 2004 study and they ended up being less than that. This article simply points out that "if things continue as they are going and/or continue in the worst-case scenario" then generalist physicians who make 30% less than the average may not able to stay afloat with their med school debt. Fortunately for us it is economic principles that will determine the future of young physician debt and not some gun-toting Las Vegas mobster... The fact of the matter is that when medical school debt gets "too big" or student loan rates get "too expensive" then there will be a relative shortage of sane, smart, medical school applicants. At the same time there may be an even bigger surge of medical school applicants from rich families because they are the only ones who can afford to pay a tuition that has a negative return on investment (which would be a stupid move on their part). Both of those situations narrow the applicant pool which will lead to a supply sub-optimal doctors for the future. The ensuing demand for competent doctors will cause a public uproar, and government and medical schools together will be forced to figure out a way to create a supply of competent doctor (i.e. cutting budget elsewhere to lower tuition and gov't-sponsored loan interest rates). It will all work out in the end

 

[kdburton]

Law2Doc is a frequent, intelligent, and conscientious poster on SDN. I appreciate his posts and the experience he brings to the table.

You can disagree with him all you want but don't be rude. From reading your posts I'm not even sure what your argument is or I would try to respond to it...

I think "he" (L2D) is actually a she if I remember correctly

 

[8744]

I call b.s.

No one leaves a successful practice (law practice) to go to medical school to become a doctor. Either a troll or there's more to it.

Bull. I left a successful engineering career. What can I say? I had a stupid attack and I am paying for it every day.

 

[8744]

Have you ever lived in the real world? I ask because there seems to be a disconnect between reality of a 120,000$ salary and your illusions of comfort.

If you cannot live comfortably on 120,000$ gross ,then you are a fool. No matter where you live (minus 3-4 big cities where salaries are much higher for the same job b/c of the higher cost of living).

No. Salaries are lower, not higher, in high-cost-of-living cities because the market is saturated with doctors who can't imagine living anywhere else and suffer for the privilege.

I repeat, you will not find higher salaries in large East or West Coast cities to take into account the higher cost of living. Like anything else, if you are desperate for a particular location, your employer has you by the gonads and will squeeze as hard as you will tolerate. The higher salaries are in places where no one wants to go. I was offered (and turned down) a job in Southern Ohio seventy miles from the nearest interstate and just North of Bum**** which paid an obscene salary with truly awesome benefits that made compensation packages in San Diego or Washington look like minimum wage.

Additionally, the issue is not whether you can live comfortably, only if it is worth all the effort to gross $8000 per month after paying student loans. It is not, especially factoring the opportunity cost of eight years of medical training where your average earnings over that period are $20,000 per year.

 

[8744]

Dudes. As some of you know, I failed to match into Emergency Medicine the first time around, had a stupid attack, and scrambled into Family Medicine. Family Medicine is a decent, useful specialty and a lot harder than most of you think but it generally doesn't pay very well. Emergency Medicine is currently the highest paying of the three-year residencies and probably pays better than OB/Gyn or General Surgery.

After scramble day when all was said and done, my wife cried. She's a smart girl and realized that all of a sudden, going to medical school had become an incredibly bad career move and not worth the effort, the poverty, and the huge debt to make what is essentially a high-end engineering or other professional-type salary.

The next year, even though it cost us thousands of dollars to apply and tens of thousands in moving expenses and real estate losses I matched into Emergency Medicine and, from a financial point of view, this has been the best decision I have ever made in a decade of bad decisions starting with, "Hey, I think I'll apply to medical school."

You all just don't get it. The trend in physician income is not good. I may get a couple-or-five years of decent income but I guarantee that ten years from now I will be working harder for less money.

There are other careers out there and while parts of my job are incredibly rewarding and immensely satisfying, a lot of it, and I mean a lot, blows with the power of a thousand hurricanes. You guys think it's all playing the patrician, God-like doctor role with your patients and solving incredibly complicated medical or surgical problems but a lot of it is dealing with an ever-growing bureaucracy, patients that are either wasting your time or are themselves a waste of time, and having to scramble to get paid for your work by patients, insurance companies, and a government that thinks you are just making widgets.

 

[45408]

I repeat, you will not find higher salaries in large East or West Coast cities to take into account the higher cost of living. Like anything else, if you are desperate for a particular location, your employer has you by the gonads and will squeeze as hard as you will tolerate. The higher salaries are in places where no one wants to go. I was offered (and turned down) a job in Southern Ohio seventy miles from the nearest interstate and just North of Bum**** which paid an obscene salary with truly awesome benefits that made compensation packages in San Diego or Washington look like minimum wage.

And pocket the difference, no less. Your employer gets to live in that "great city" and make tons of money. You only get one of those options.

 

[45408]

Dudes. As some of you know, I failed to match into Emergency Medicine the first time around, had a stupid attack, and scrambled into Family Medicine. Family Medicine is a decent, useful specialty and a lot harder than most of you think but it generally doesn't pay very well. Emergency Medicine is currently the highest paying of the three-year residencies and probably pays better than OB/Gyn or General Surgery.

After scramble day when all was said and done, my wife cried. She's a smart girl and realized that all of a sudden, going to medical school had become an incredibly bad career move and not worth the effort, the poverty, and the huge debt to make what is essentially a high-end engineering or other professional-type salary.

The next year, even though it cost us thousands of dollars to apply and tens of thousands in moving expenses and real estate losses I matched into Emergency Medicine and, from a financial point of view, this has been the best decision I have ever made in a decade of bad decisions starting with, "Hey, I think I'll apply to medical school."

You all just don't get it. The trend in physician income is not good. I may get a couple-or-five years of decent income but I guarantee that ten years from now I will be working harder for less money.

There are other careers out there and while parts of my job are incredibly rewarding and immensely satisfying, a lot of it, and I mean a lot, blows with the power of a thousand hurricanes. You guys think it's all playing the patrician, God-like doctor role with your patients and solving incredibly complicated medical or surgical problems but a lot of it is dealing with an ever-growing bureaucracy, patients that are either wasting your time or are themselves a waste of time, and having to scramble to get paid for your work by patients, insurance companies, and a government that thinks you are just making widgets.

are you sure you want to quit your blog?

 

[DoctorPardi]

are you sure you want to quit your blog?

At least leave your site up so we can view your posts forever.

 

[McGillGrad]

Yeah, you're right. Salary.com is lying about being paid more in Boston vs. Kansas City...lol

No. Salaries are lower, not higher, in high-cost-of-living cities because the market is saturated with doctors who can't imagine living anywhere else and suffer for the privilege.

I repeat, you will not find higher salaries in large East or West Coast cities to take into account the higher cost of living. Like anything else, if you are desperate for a particular location, your employer has you by the gonads and will squeeze as hard as you will tolerate. The higher salaries are in places where no one wants to go. I was offered (and turned down) a job in Southern Ohio seventy miles from the nearest interstate and just North of Bum**** which paid an obscene salary with truly awesome benefits that made compensation packages in San Diego or Washington look like minimum wage.

Additionally, the issue is not whether you can live comfortably, only if it is worth all the effort to gross $8000 per month after paying student loans. It is not, especially factoring the opportunity cost of eight years of medical training where your average earnings over that period are $20,000 per year.

 

[8744]

Yeah, you're right. Salary.com is lying about being paid more in Boston vs. Kansas City...lol

I don't know if they're lying or not...but I have been keenly interested in the job market for the last year, have talked to many recruiters, parsed a lot of advertisements, been to a few residency "fairs" and the facts are that, as a new graduate anyways, you will not make more money in a saturated market. Indianapolis, for example, is a mecca for EM and the salaries are accordingly much lower than they are in East Potluck, Louisiana.

Salary.com is probably great for regular jobs but it is wildly inaccurate for medicine, a field where the best jobs aren't even advertised. If you think that doctors will make more money in Manhattan because the employers feel sorry for them and pay them more to lure them away from low cost-of-living cities you are mistaken.

 

[Slide]

It's posts like these that I'm glad I made the decision to go to my ultra-cheap state school instead of a higher tier school. They may be rolling with their degrees from fancy schools but I'll be rolling with no more than 40K of debt after school!

 

[Law2Doc]

Salary.com is probably great for regular jobs but it is wildly inaccurate for medicine, a field where the best jobs aren't even advertised.

Agreed. (And have said this on several occasions). Most of the salary type websites are inaccurate for medicine. Some base their info on the well paid types who choose to return a survey. Others are recruiters and thus have an incentive to list higher than attainable salaries so you will use their services. Salary.com is a good example of one that simply isn't used by this industry and so the data is not particularly encompassing. Every couple of years, when JAMA or other such industry publication chooses to discuss physician salaries (and the decline thereof) you get a slice of more credible data. But most of the other internet resources need to be viewed with extreme skepticism, and sometimes just as examples of fluke salaries you will never get.

 

[McGillGrad]

You know more about this than I do, since I am still a med student...

With that being said, considering that there is a nominal increase in residency stipends when the program is in a big city I imagined that there would be something similar with salaries... although, the increase could possibly not make up for the higher cost of living. And I imagine that this is your point.

I don't know if they're lying or not...but I have been keenly interested in the job market for the last year, have talked to many recruiters, parsed a lot of advertisements, been to a few residency "fairs" and the facts are that, as a new graduate anyways, you will not make more money in a saturated market. Indianapolis, for example, is a mecca for EM and the salaries are accordingly much lower than they are in East Potluck, Louisiana.

Salary.com is probably great for regular jobs but it is wildly inaccurate for medicine, a field where the best jobs aren't even advertised. If you think that doctors will make more money in Manhattan because the employers feel sorry for them and pay them more to lure them away from low cost-of-living cities you are mistaken.

 

[Doctor J]

...considering that there is a nominal increase in residency stipends when the program is in a big city I imagined that there would be something similar with salaries... although, the increase could possibly not make up for the higher cost of living. And I imagine that this is your point.

I believe this is true mostly for internal medicine, family practice, pediatrics, and perhaps OB/Gyn residencies affiliated with smaller hospitals where they only have a few residency specialties offered. Academic centers with the full array of specialty choices offer all their starting residents the same high 30's/low 40's salary regardless of urban or rural location.
Why is this? I believe it is a direct attempt to fill these slots (training eventually low-paid physicians in a high cost-of-living area where this resident may or may not want to live) with some quality applicants. In this case the starting resident is the factor that is in demand. Contrast that to the job market, where the physician wanting to work in the urban mecca is looking for the highly-sought-after positions. Market economics at work.

Don't ever let the hospital tell you that you are costing them money as a resident. Just not true. You're a big money maker with the price set by the government. The fact that some programs are able to pay their residents 60K when Medicaid reimburses the program 110K proves it - if you cost them money as a resident they will not pay you any more than the absolute minimum.

 

[DrDre311]

I believe this is true mostly for internal medicine, family practice, pediatrics, and perhaps OB/Gyn residencies affiliated with smaller hospitals where they only have a few residency specialties offered. Academic centers with the full array of specialty choices offer all their starting residents the same high 30's/low 40's salary regardless of urban or rural location.

I remember interviewing at NYU (which has every kind of medical everything and its super-sub-sub-specialties you could ever imagine) and them talking about average resident salaries close to 60K. I believe residency salaries are dictated by crazy government crap that deals with cost-of-living stuff/location/etc. I'm pretty sure programs can't just offer whatever they want to offer.

I also remember that resident salaries at Mt. Sinai (NYC--and they are careful to tell you that they are the original Mt. Sinai) were way, way closer to normal resident salaries than NYU. So that was weird and I'm not sure how to explain it since they're both in Manhattan, but, whatever. Since when does government crap have to make sense?

My own starting salary as a resident in a location which is not New York was closer to 50K than 40K. So I'm not sure where you're getting your info.

 

[MOHS_01]

This is really funny considering that every board I visit, I've always been accused of being a troll. I think it's because many posts of mine are made in a state of mania, and seem unrealistically emphatic.

That's because you define "troll" with your posts... demonstrably naive and bordering slow at times at that... Good luck to ya buddy, maybe you'll slip into a good residency slot somewhere... but I would be willing to bet that, if your true attitude, outlook, and personality are as displayed on here, most residents and attendings see through the facade and recognize a tool.....

 

[Doctor J]

I remember interviewing at NYU (which has every kind of medical everything and its super-sub-sub-specialties you could ever imagine) and them talking about average resident salaries close to 60K. I believe residency salaries are dictated by crazy government crap that deals with cost-of-living stuff/location/etc. I'm pretty sure programs can't just offer whatever they want to offer.

I also remember that resident salaries at Mt. Sinai (NYC--and they are careful to tell you that they are the original Mt. Sinai) were way, way closer to normal resident salaries than NYU. So that was weird and I'm not sure how to explain it since they're both in Manhattan, but, whatever. Since when does government crap have to make sense?

My own starting salary as a resident in a location which is not New York was closer to 50K than 40K. So I'm not sure where you're getting your info.

Thanks for the insight. I based my generalizations on information gleaned from FREIDA. Since I was misinformed I did a Google search and found some weird information about GME financing.

The government (Medicare) reimburses GME training programs based on their direct costs in 1984 multiplied by an inflation factor, the number of Medicare patients seen, and some bizarre constant value that has something to do with the amount of unpaid care they deliver in a year (wish I was making this up but it's the gubmint for ya). So NYU probably had a huge GME program and reported a bunch of direct costs to Medicare in 1984 and Sinai maybe didn't... accounting for differences in government reimbursement trickling down to differences in resident salary. A good summary of GME reimbursement from the government can be found here.

I was totally wrong about attracting quality residents. It all has to do with arcane bureaucratic rules and some programs playing the reimbursement game better than others.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2997.html

 

[87138]

It's funny, but for me the moment all of these notions really hit me hard was when I finally hit "send" to notify my state school (albeit a very expensive state school) by email that I would be withdrawing from them and attending a school that I think I'll probably like a little more. Most expensive email I've ever sent. That decision will end up costing me ~$70,000 in tuition/cost of living expenses over the course of the next four years. I had weighed the pros and cons and ended up going with the higher price tag. I kicked myself the rest of that day.

I still kind of regret choosing the more expensive school, even though I really think I'll like it. But I have yet to begin my first year, so what do I know?

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

In regards to the OP's question, anytime you take out six figures of debt there's going to be some risk involved; however, do your best to focus on the bigger picture. For example, say you complete residency by 30 and work until you're 60. You've racked up 250K (high end of the spectrum) of debt while going to medical school and will probably be paying somewhere in the vacinity of 400K over the life of the loan. Assume that your gross salary as an attending physician is 150K (lower end of the spectrum) and you net 100K--100k over 30 years is 3 million big ones. If you match into a higher paying specialty, you can expect to double or even triple that amount. In short, medical school is a solid, long-term investment, and you will reap the benefits as long as you stay the course (granted healthcare policy doesn't change drastically in the US).

 

[Blesbok]

By the time you are in med school understanding economics/finance is too late. The folks who think of medicine as the same cash cow of yesteryear will already have enrolled, not realizing there are other careers that are more $ oriented and higher yield. By then it's game over, the die is cast. You need to make finance a prereq.

Everyone says this, but I have yet to see another profession that can pretty much guarantee 300k+ if you are willing to work for it.

 

[McGillGrad]

Everyone says this, but I have yet to see another profession that can pretty much guarantee 300k+ if you are willing to work for it.

It depends on your background b/c there are plenty of my classmates who come from "middle class" families that live on 150k-300k per year, so a physician's salary is maintaining the status quo (i.e their normal lifestyle).

ON THE OTHER HAND, for people who grew up with much less will definitely not complain about $150k since it is more money than they have ever had growing up.

 

[JacobSilge]

Everyone says this, but I have yet to see another profession that can pretty much guarantee 300k+ if you are willing to work for it.

1) The point is that other careers are more risky, but there is the potential for much more reward.

2) I'd hardly say that medicine will guarantee 300k+. Even right now I'd say that in many locations that won't even be possible for primary care even if you're working 80 hour weeks. And lest we forget inevitable changes in the reimbursement structure.

 

[Law2Doc]

Everyone says this, but I have yet to see another profession that can pretty much guarantee 300k+ if you are willing to work for it.

The average physician income is way below $300k, and the average for primary care specialties (which accounts for the majority of residency slots) is currently closer to $140k. (And about half the people earn less than average). I promise you there are folks working quite hard in medicine who don't get close to the figure you suggest. And with declining reimbursements, some pundits are predicting incomes will get worse (I recently went to a talk where the panel was estimating a 10% decline in salaries for certain specialties in the near term). By contrast in quite a few other fields you can do better than a hard working FP. If you really think that you are guaranteed $300k+ in medicine, you are delusional and in for a big big disappointment. sorry.

 

[TOMFighter]

The average physician income is way below $300k, and the average for primary care specialties (which accounts for the majority of residency slots) is currently closer to $140k. (And about half the people earn less than average). I promise you there are folks working quite hard in medicine who don't get close to the figure you suggest. And with declining reimbursements, some pundits are predicting incomes will get worse (I recently went to a talk where the panel was estimating a 10% decline in salaries for certain specialties in the near term). By contrast in quite a few other fields you can do better than a hard working FP. If you really think that you are guaranteed $300k+ in medicine, you are delusional and in for a big big disappointment. sorry.

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=RC7PwJ8PVaU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[mjl1717]

The average physician income is way below $300k, and the average for primary care specialties (which accounts for the majority of residency slots) is currently closer to $140k. (And about half the people earn less than average). I promise you there are folks working quite hard in medicine who don't get close to the figure you suggest. And with declining reimbursements, some pundits are predicting incomes will get worse (I recently went to a talk where the panel was estimating a 10% decline in salaries for certain specialties in the near term). By contrast in quite a few other fields you can do better than a hard working FP. If you really think that you are guaranteed $300k+ in medicine, you are delusional and in for a big big disappointment. sorry.

L2D is correct -the average doc struggles to make significantly over 100k!

And just coming out of residency some docs only make 80k..(at first I didnt believe this but its true..)

Word is you have to love this field! [No joke]

 

[ramseszerg]

L2D is correct -the average doc struggles to make significantly over 100k!

And just coming out of residency some docs only make 80k..(at first I didnt believe this but its true..)

Word is you have to love this field! [No joke]

100K is a little extreme. Doesn't it depend on the specialty? Don't rads, neurosurgery (specifically interested in these fields) etc have average starting salaries of 300-400K?

 

[mjl1717]

100K is a little extreme. Doesn't it depend on the specialty? Don't rads, neurosurgery (specifically interested in these fields) etc have average starting salaries of 300-400K?

Neuro surgery is on the extreme side of salaries in this arena.. So salary is increased..

But the general public and sometimes even people in the field are delusional about physician salaries..Especially when heavy loans, malpractice, even spouse expectations and and a home is considered..

Its easy to hear folks say "all the money you are going to get as a physician"
Plus you figurtively sweat blood for it.. Im not complaining, you just TAKE whats thrown and you and LOVE it!

 

[8744]

Everyone says this, but I have yet to see another profession that can pretty much guarantee 300k+ if you are willing to work for it.

Har. har har.

 

[45408]

The average physician income is way below $300k, and the average for primary care specialties (which accounts for the majority of residency slots) is currently closer to $140k.

Or you could.....not go into primary care.

 

[Luxian]

It depends on your background b/c there are plenty of my classmates who come from "middle class" families that live on 150k-300k per year,

Haha, oh, ha! yeah, "middle class"! Oh, that's a good one!
My mom raised us on $15,000. I mean, that was the 80s so it went a little further, but seriously, is anyone with a salary measured in the 1/4 to 1/3 of a million dollar range still calling themselves "middle class"?

Oh. They are?

...sigh.

ON THE OTHER HAND, for people who grew up with much less will definitely not complain about $150k since it is more money than they have ever had growing up.

Right on the money (so to speak). I earn nearly $60k right now and can live perfectly well on it with plenty to spare, fly places, eat out, etc. If I can go from a job that bores me to tears for $60k to a job that is interesting even 20% of the time for $100k, I've made out like a bandit!

 

[45408]

Haha, oh, ha! yeah, "middle class"! Oh, that's a good one!
My mom raised us on $15,000. I mean, that was the 80s so it went a little further, but seriously, is anyone with a salary measured in the 1/4 to 1/3 of a million dollar range still calling themselves "middle class"?

Seeing how $15K is pretty close to the federal poverty line, I'd say that middle class would be significantly higher than that.

 

[Law2Doc]

Or you could.....not go into primary care.

The majority of residency slots are in primary care. Wanting into a competitive specialty and actually getting it are two very different things. A majority of folks on here will end up in primary care whether they choose it or default into it.