Is being gay an issue with med schools?

[Jim Henderson]

Do medical schools and doctors look down on someone for being gay? I have heard some stories from other friends of mine but I would like the advise of an actual doctor.
Thank You!

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[drhenderson]

Some doctors personally might, but medical schools don't, and in fact it is quite illegal for them to do so.
Jim Henderson, MD of Medicalstudent.net

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I'm pretty sure one of my interviewers was very gay. I doubt it's an issue.


bizump

 

[MollyMalone]

 

[kirexhana]

Some doctors personally might, but medical schools don't, and in fact it is quite illegal for them to do so.
Jim Henderson, MD of Medicalstudent.net

i'm confused... are you answering your own post?

no, it is not.

 

[gostudy]

Check.

 

[MarzMD]

Wait, the guy just answered his own question with another screen name. Am I the only one that is very confused about this?

Edit: and kirexhana

 

[DrBowtie]

Wait, the guy just answered his own question with another screen name. Am I the only one that is very confused about this?

Edit: and kirexhana

I think it might have been an attempt to start an FAQ of sort. The OP is one of the founders of SDN.

 

[71263]

I do believe that no matter how open minded people are, there will always be some degree of prejudice, but I really dont think anyone would go out of their way to be discriminative or hold it against you, or anyone else.

 

[browniegirl86]

AND the post is from 1999. If you go back to the first page of the forums *ever*, all the posts are by Dr. Henderson.

 

[MarzMD]

In light of recent developments, I am even more confused.

Edit again: I get it now, sorta. Basically Rogue Synapse brought back a 7 year old thread.

 

[Flopotomist]

who ARE these people that are reading SEVEN YEAR OLD posts and then commenting on them? I doubt I could even FIND the posts that old. Let them die.

 

[4paw]

What I'd suggest, if one is gay, is to get in touch with the local college of medicine - like royal college of surgeons and physicians in canada, or amc in the states. These groups usually keep a list of gay-positive doctors. Ask to be put in touch with a couple doctors you can talk with, as you are applying to medical school, and would like to chat about how to negotiate being gay and getting into the profession. It's a tricky thing, as there has been a lot of anti-discrimination legislation put into effect over the years, and at the same time, anybody in the queer community understands the subtle ways in which people can just feel 'off' when in front of a queer person - that directly affects things like 'getting a feel for a person' during an interview. (in other words, they may not be interested in discriminating against lgbt, but at the same time have not worked out any homophobia they may have, and so just get to feeling uncomfortable, and have low rapport). So - get in touch with some mentors, and maybe you'll find the 'out and proud' approach is yours, or the 'stealth and proud'. Hopefully, if you're not proud, you'll find that along the way too, in response to a question such as this. Just to know, lots of folks have struggled with how to talk up and talk down the lgbt thing.

 

[kirexhana]

What I'd suggest, if one is gay, is to get in touch with the local college of medicine - like royal college of surgeons and physicians in canada, or amc in the states. These groups usually keep a list of gay-positive doctors. Ask to be put in touch with a couple doctors you can talk with, as you are applying to medical school, and would like to chat about how to negotiate being gay and getting into the profession. It's a tricky thing, as there has been a lot of anti-discrimination legislation put into effect over the years, and at the same time, anybody in the queer community understands the subtle ways in which people can just feel 'off' when in front of a queer person - that directly affects things like 'getting a feel for a person' during an interview. So - get in touch with some mentors, and maybe you'll find the 'out and proud' approach is yours, or the 'stealth and proud'. Hopefully, if you're not proud, you'll find that along the way too, in response to a question such as this. Just to know, lots of folks have struggled with how to talk up and talk down the lgbt thing.

gay-positive? seriously? seriously?

 

[4paw]

gay-positive? seriously? seriously?

yeah, seriously. at gay pride in toronto three years ago, the college was out, asking folks which doctors they could reccomend for just such a list. outreach and community approach.

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I get it now, sorta. Basically Rogue Synapse brought back a 7 year old thread.

Yep. I wanted to see what people now had to say about this. You're welcome.

 

[labelwhore]

i can see patients and doctors hatin people who are out
its probably better to live in a progressive, liberal area

 

[4paw]

flopotomist -
how do people react in the medical profession find out that you are an out supersquirrel? they must be taken aback! a *super*squirrel!!!

kirexhana - since you've got brokeback, i'll respond a little more 'seriously' - the effort was a little lacking in the drive to create the 'gay-positive' list - i.e. figuring that if a doctor has a gay client, they are automatically gay-positive. So, many doctor's names may have made it onto the list, and those doctors may indeed get more gay patients, and hopefully that will get them doing the work that means they truly will be gay-positive. however, the list is probably broader than it should be, and perhaps when trying to find docs to discuss this with, it would be the organizers of such endeavours, rather than any random name - i.e. the doc should be lgbt themselves, to be able to give good feedback.

 

[juiceman311]

Med school interviewers are normal people too, they are subject to being just as biased as big Bubba.

 

[kirexhana]

flopotomist -
how do people react in the medical profession find out that you are an out supersquirrel? they must be taken aback! a *super*squirrel!!!

kirexhana - since you've got brokeback, i'll respond a little more 'seriously' - the effort was a little lacking in the drive to create the 'gay-positive' list - i.e. figuring that if a doctor has a gay client, they are automatically gay-positive. So, many doctor's names may have made it onto the list, and those doctors may indeed get more gay patients, and hopefully that will get them doing the work that means they truly will be gay-positive. however, the list is probably broader than it should be, and perhaps when trying to find docs to discuss this with, it would be the organizers of such endeavours, rather than any random name - i.e. the doc should be lgbt themselves, to be able to give good feedback.

when you say gay positive, do you mean gay friendly or... just gay?

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I think it's naive to think you won't be discriminated against if you are openly, obviously, flamingly gay. It's not really a sexuality issue, it's more of a flaming issue. Now maybe it won't be this way in like 100 years, but that's the way it is.

since you've got brokeback, i'll respond a little more 'seriously' - the effort was a little lacking in the drive to create the 'gay-positive' list - i.e. figuring that if a doctor has a gay client, they are automatically gay-positive. So, many doctor's names may have made it onto the list, and those doctors may indeed get more gay patients, and hopefully that will get them doing the work that means they truly will be gay-positive. however, the list is probably broader than it should be, and perhaps when trying to find docs to discuss this with, it would be the organizers of such endeavours, rather than any random name - i.e. the doc should be lgbt themselves, to be able to give good feedback.

Does this ^ make any sense? Maybe I'm just tired, but I'm pretty sure it does not.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

Yep. I wanted to see what people now had to say about this. You're welcome.

Haha, whatever, your secret's out

 

[VPDcurt]

I don't run around at interviews letting everyone know that I am attracted to women (I am a man), so don't run around at your interviews letting everyone know that you are attracted to the same sex. It is a non-issue unless YOU CHOOSE to make it one - much like most of the homosexual issues in our society today. Live and learn.

 

[Vincir]

I don't run around at interviews letting everyone know that I am attracted to women (I am a man), so don't run around at your interviews letting everyone know that you are attracted to the same sex. It is a non-issue unless YOU CHOOSE to make it one - much like most of the homosexual issues in our society today. Live and learn.

Hmm, how very simple you make it sound.

I think what is more of an issue is when a person has extracurriculars, research, or leadership that would involve discussing their sexuality. Even on secondary applications where they ask questions like "how are you diverse?" or "what adversity have you faced?" some people feel that mentioning their own experiences might come back to bite them.

 

[riceman04]

Do medical schools and doctors look down on someone for being gay? I have heard some stories from other friends of mine but I would like the advise of an actual doctor.
Thank You!

I would have to say that it might depend on the school...schools like Wake Forest, Loma Linda, and even University of Utah (simply b/c of locale) might have an issue with it...but they might suppress their issue with it from the public (and only apply specif rules under the table)

 

[MNsocsci]

~Random comment~
Anyone else think it's weird that when you do the post preview for this thread you see the second comment? Must be some feature of ancient threads...

 

[IAMS]

~Random comment~
Anyone else think it's weird that when you do the post preview for this thread you see the second comment? Must be some feature of ancient threads...

read on - all your questions will be resolved. Ahh.. closure.

 

[SRK85]

Umm yea back in 1999 it may be tough. Gays werent generally accepted in the late 90s. Today it depends on the interviewer some people have biases to gay people even race so it really depends on the person.

 

[sit down lucy]

I don't run around at interviews letting everyone know that I am attracted to women (I am a man), so don't run around at your interviews letting everyone know that you are attracted to the same sex. It is a non-issue unless YOU CHOOSE to make it one - much like most of the homosexual issues in our society today. Live and learn.

Yeah, but it is, in many many ways. It's not about being flaming. I'm by no means flaming. It's about questions about adversity, as another poster commented. What am I supposed to say when someone asks me about how I deal with adversity? A lot of the things I've had to deal with stem from the fact that I'm gay and some people take issue with that.

Also, I dont choose to make it an issue - other people choose to make it an issue. Every time someone asks me if I have a boyfriend (which has happened more than once with coworkers in my lab) it's an issue - and not by my choice. There are a thousand other ways like that where it comes up. Granted, those probably won't come up in interviews, but they come up in every day life more often than you think (probably because you don't even notice them). If you counted how many times in one day you did something that asserted your heterosexuality, I think you'd be suprised.

 

[bigfrank]

Do medical schools and doctors look down on someone for being gay? I have heard some stories from other friends of mine but I would like the advise of an actual doctor.
Thank You!

Newsflash: No one cares if you're gay or not.

 

[VPDcurt]

Yeah, but it is, in many many ways. It's not about being flaming. I'm by no means flaming. It's about questions about adversity, as another poster commented. What am I supposed to say when someone asks me about how I deal with adversity? A lot of the things I've had to deal with stem from the fact that I'm gay and some people take issue with that.

Also, I dont choose to make it an issue - other people choose to make it an issue. Every time someone asks me if I have a boyfriend (which has happened more than once with coworkers in my lab) it's an issue - and not by my choice. There are a thousand other ways like that where it comes up. Granted, those probably won't come up in interviews, but they come up in every day life more often than you think (probably because you don't even notice them). If you counted how many times in one day you did something that asserted your heterosexuality, I think you'd be suprised.

If, in today's world, being gay is the most adverse thing you've face...I envy you.

 

[VPDcurt]

Most people in our generation don't realize how spoiled we are with respect to the rest of the world. We blow things totally out of proportion and this is another example of that. Whether you're the pitcher or the catcher, no one cares. It's your personal life and keep it at that. If you aren't comfortable talking about your homosexuality as an adverse situation you've faced, then don't talk about it. I have personal things I am not comfortable talking about at a med school interview (though they are adversities I've faced), but I'm not going to bring them up and then go cry about it later. If you choose to bring something up at an interview or in ANY instance in your life, then you must be ready to deal with the consequences.

 

[dbhvt]

I don't run around at interviews letting everyone know that I am attracted to women (I am a man), so don't run around at your interviews letting everyone know that you are attracted to the same sex. It is a non-issue unless YOU CHOOSE to make it one - much like most of the homosexual issues in our society today. Live and learn.

*sigh*

Let me splain something to you.

Sexuality is more than the physical act of copulation. It is an identity issue.

People think they have 'gaydar' for a reason--you project your sexuality whether you like it or not. In this culture, you and I are allowed, subtly or not so subtly, to project our male heterosexuality without fear of retribution. Projecting homosexuality is often met with attitudes of discrimination, or concern that some social boundary has been crossed (the 'I don't care who you ****, but I don't want to know about it' syndrome). The first issue is direct opression, and is easier (though difficult) to deal with, say in court. But the second issue is also an insidious form of social opression. Kind of like slavery vs. Jim Crow.

A gay interviewee is not concerned about the consequences of divulging details about who he slept with last night, he is concerned about the consequences of revealing his identity. You can mention that recent conversation about medicare you had with your girlfriend without skirting around your identity. He might have to do that to avoid running into a wall.

d

 

[kirexhana]

*sigh*

Let me splain something to you.

Sexuality is more than the physical act of copulation. It is an identity issue.

People think they have 'gaydar' for a reason--you project your sexuality whether you like it or not. In this culture, you and I are allowed, subtly or not so subtly, to project our male heterosexuality without fear of retribution. Projecting homosexuality is often met with attitudes of discrimination, or concern that some social boundary has been crossed (the 'I don't care who you ****, but I don't want to know about it' syndrome). The first issue is direct opression, and is easier (though difficult) to deal with, say in court. But the second issue is also an insidious form of social opression. Kind of like slavery vs. Jim Crow.

A gay interviewee is not concerned about the consequences of divulging details about who he slept with last night, he is concerned about the consequences of revealing his identity. You can mention that recent conversation about medicare you had with your girlfriend without skirting around your identity. He might have to do that to avoid running into a wall.

d

very nice post.

 

[Vincir]

*sigh*

Let me splain something to you.

Sexuality is more than the physical act of copulation. It is an identity issue ...

d

Very nicely put

 

[eastsidaz]

Most people in our generation don't realize how spoiled we are with respect to the rest of the world. We blow things totally out of proportion and this is another example of that. Whether you're the pitcher or the catcher, no one cares. It's your personal life and keep it at that. If you aren't comfortable talking about your homosexuality as an adverse situation you've faced, then don't talk about it. I have personal things I am not comfortable talking about at a med school interview (though they are adversities I've faced), but I'm not going to bring them up and then go cry about it later. If you choose to bring something up at an interview or in ANY instance in your life, then you must be ready to deal with the consequences.

This is a fair point in many regards though. Struggling with personal identity issues, while difficult, is a luxury of the prosperous western world. Although I'm sure it's tough for a gay kid growing up in the Third World, they have more pressing concerns related to survival; regrettably they could be forced by social convention into opposite-sex marriages, but those can develop into meaningful friendships, which is better than can be said about most relationships, gay or straight, in this country.

 

[sanford_w/o_son]

who ARE these people that are reading SEVEN YEAR OLD posts and then commenting on them? I doubt I could even FIND the posts that old. Let them die.

chaos is bad, mkay?

 

[4paw]

kirexhana - 'gay-positive' often just means lgbt and str8 allies. often it means having worked out for oneself what it means to live in a world that still has discrimination based on sexual orientation, and further, by presenting in a way that does not adhere to gender norms - i.e. manly men and femmy girls (yep, girls is the word that comes to mind, could be some residuals of a sexist world where women were often infantilized, being harboured by me). Often on campuses there will be a campaign to put triangle rainbow stickers on office doors, that proclaims 'queer positive space', and the sexual orientation of the person inside the office is not what's being talked about, just that this space will be one in which the folks will be aware of how discrimination happens in subtle ways, and have worked on how not to perpetuate that.

So, to anyone reading this post because they *are* gay and wondering what the world is like, it's pretty clear that str8 folks can be supportive, and also not understanding of what it actually means to live as gay - a person can be labelled as whiny, too flamboyant, and all of this will be a possible subtle way in which 'rapport' is ruined. There is also a community of lgbt applicants, doctors and faculty, who for the most part go pretty stealth. That is an indication on how 'gay-positive' the process of admissions and the profession is - tacitly accepted. I just have to remember how condoleeza would discuss extracurriculars in the lgbt community - always keeping a sense of distance, feeling out whether or not i'm talking to a SISTAH.

I was really aware of how there was no lgbt voice on this forum. I'm glad the thread was revived. Even though it gets the same old condemnation that anything that even hints at adversity/social oppression/diversity. So, for the lgbt folks who might really be wondering how to get through this process, heads up, you've got a thread now that shows what the tenor is - so far i'm going with the stealth and proud unless the radar indicates otherwise. if not, i may be labelled as whiny, and flamboyant. hey, i'll leave that for a drag king act in the community. maybe a subversive take on admissions processes and the subtle discrimination - "Don't Cry Out Loud" maybe? that morphs into "F** You I Won't Do What You Tell Me" - oh yeah, the other label besides whiny and flamboyant, is too 'militant'.

 

[kirexhana]

kirexhana - 'gay-positive' often just means lgbt and str8 allies. often it means having worked out for oneself what it means to live in a world that still has discrimination based on sexual orientation, and further, by presenting in a way that does not adhere to gender norms - i.e. manly men and femmy girls (yep, girls is the word that comes to mind, could be some residuals of a sexist world where women were often infantilized, being harboured by me). Often on campuses there will be a campaign to put triangle rainbow stickers on office doors, that proclaims 'queer positive space', and the sexual orientation of the person inside the office is not what's being talked about, just that this space will be one in which the folks will be aware of how discrimination happens in subtle ways, and have worked on how not to perpetuate that.

So, to anyone reading this post because they *are* gay and wondering what the world is like, it's pretty clear that str8 folks can be supportive, and also not understanding of what it actually means to live as gay - a person can be labelled as whiny, too flamboyant, and all of this will be a possible subtle way in which 'rapport' is ruined. There is also a community of lgbt applicants, doctors and faculty, who for the most part go pretty stealth. That is an indication on how 'gay-positive' the process of admissions and the profession is - tacitly accepted. I just have to remember how condoleeza would discuss extracurriculars in the lgbt community - always keeping a sense of distance, feeling out whether or not i'm talking to a SISTAH.

I was really aware of how there was no lgbt voice on this forum. I'm glad the thread was revived. Even though it gets the same old condemnation that anything that even hints at adversity/social oppression/diversity. So, for the lgbt folks who might really be wondering how to get through this process, heads up, you've got a thread now that shows what the tenor is - so far i'm going with the stealth and proud unless the radar indicates otherwise. if not, i may be labelled as whiny, and flamboyant. hey, i'll leave that for a drag king act in the community. maybe a subversive take on admissions processes and the subtle discrimination - "Don't Cry Out Loud" maybe? that morphs into "F** You I Won't Do What You Tell Me" - oh yeah, the other label besides whiny and flamboyant, is too 'militant'.

yea, for some reason i was misunderstanding it the first couple times around, cuz i've never heard of that term before. i was just wondering because it almost sounded like you were refering to it as a disease state, but all's clear now.

 

[drmota]

gay is the new straight. rock on.
-mota