Is California University of Science & Medicine (CUSM/CalMed) worth applying to this cycle?

[MDorBust97]

Currently working on my AMCAS and trying to make a good school list.
I have been stalking the forums for awhile and some comments from posters on the current CUSM thread raises some eyebrows for me.
I've seen people claim vehemently they'd rather go to a DO school over this school, others claiming its just like CNU (which we all know gets a really bad rep here), some people nit picking about the lawsuit by the overarching hospital group which gave some of the initial funding.

Some of the issues that have come up I'm not that concerned with, such as the fed loans since they just cant give them out as they please, not like they chose not to accept like CNU, as well as the hike up in fed interest rates makes fed loans not super amazing anymore either. Plus the temp facility doesnt seem too bad from what was posted- seems they have everything they need and a plan in place to get the final building up by 2020.

I'm wondering whats the SDN adcoms thoughts on this as I havent seen anything posted by Goro et al recently about it. How does this compare to Kaiser-Permenate as they seem very similar- both are only attached to a hospital not an existing school (assuming Kaiser opens for apps this year).

If anyone was curious, I'm a hapless ORM Cali applicant, balanced 518, 3.58GPA; nothing really spectacular or unique about me- odds of me getting to the UC's other established CA schools seem slim so I'm wondering about the new schools.

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[500miles]

I am also curious about this

Currently working on my AMCAS and trying to make a good school list.
I have been stalking the forums for awhile and some comments from posters on the current CUSM thread raises some eyebrows for me.
I've seen people claim vehemently they'd rather go to a DO school over this school, others claiming its just like CNU (which we all know gets a really bad rep here), some people nit picking about the lawsuit by the overarching hospital group which gave some of the initial funding.

Some of the issues that have come up I'm not that concerned with, such as the fed loans since they just cant give them out as they please, not like they chose not to accept like CNU, as well as the hike up in fed interest rates makes fed loans not super amazing anymore either. Plus the temp facility doesnt seem too bad from what was posted- seems they have everything they need and a plan in place to get the final building up by 2020.

I'm wondering whats the SDN adcoms thoughts on this as I havent seen anything posted by Goro et al recently about it. How does this compare to Kaiser-Permenate as they seem very similar- both are only attached to a hospital not an existing school (assuming Kaiser opens for apps this year).

If anyone was curious, I'm a hapless ORM Cali applicant, balanced 518, 3.58GPA; nothing really spectacular or unique about me- odds of me getting to the UC's other established CA schools seem slim so I'm wondering about the new schools.

 

[Arturiase]

I am also curious about this

Read this years school application thread

 

[Mr Max]

Honestly, some of the stuff posted in the thread looked like hardcore gunning to keep people from applying.

 

[MDorBust97]

Read this years school application thread

I have read it lol, which is why I'm posting I want to hear thoughts outside of that group, mostly Goro et al

 

[Goro]

Currently working on my AMCAS and trying to make a good school list.
I have been stalking the forums for awhile and some comments from posters on the current CUSM thread raises some eyebrows for me.
I've seen people claim vehemently they'd rather go to a DO school over this school, others claiming its just like CNU (which we all know gets a really bad rep here), some people nit picking about the lawsuit by the overarching hospital group which gave some of the initial funding.

Some of the issues that have come up I'm not that concerned with, such as the fed loans since they just cant give them out as they please, not like they chose not to accept like CNU, as well as the hike up in fed interest rates makes fed loans not super amazing anymore either. Plus the temp facility doesnt seem too bad from what was posted- seems they have everything they need and a plan in place to get the final building up by 2020.

I'm wondering whats the SDN adcoms thoughts on this as I havent seen anything posted by Goro et al recently about it. How does this compare to Kaiser-Permenate as they seem very similar- both are only attached to a hospital not an existing school (assuming Kaiser opens for apps this year).

If anyone was curious, I'm a hapless ORM Cali applicant, balanced 518, 3.58GPA; nothing really spectacular or unique about me- odds of me getting to the UC's other established CA schools seem slim so I'm wondering about the new schools.

Given how competitive the CA med school market is, my advice is to apply IF you're from CA. Hence, it's worth considering, but with your stats, you certainly can do better
CUSM is another in the trend of a hospital with a medical school attached.

 

[MDorBust97]

Given how competitive the CA med school market is, my advice is to apply IF you're from CA. Hence, it's worth considering, but with your stats, you certainly can do better
CUSM is another in the trend of a hospital with a medical school attached.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I'm not so sure if I could do much better ha. With my MCAT sliding slowtly toward the middle 50% at places like ucla, ucsf, usc and my gpa at the bottom of the pack I'm not hopeful.

Obviously it's never ideal to go to a school that's brand new school but in your opinion it doesn't raise the red flags that CNU has raised?

 

[MareNostrummm]

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I'm not so sure if I could do much better ha. With my MCAT sliding slowtly toward the middle 50% at places like ucla, ucsf, usc and my gpa at the bottom of the pack I'm not hopeful.

Obviously it's never ideal to go to a school that's brand new school but in your opinion it doesn't raise the red flags that CNU has raised?

Just apply to a bunch of private OOS schools with MCAT averages in the 508-512 range... boom problem solved. There's at least 15+ of them.

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I'm not so sure if I could do much better ha. With my MCAT sliding slowtly toward the middle 50% at places like ucla, ucsf, usc and my gpa at the bottom of the pack I'm not hopeful.

Obviously it's never ideal to go to a school that's brand new school but in your opinion it doesn't raise the red flags that CNU has raised?

Considering that Arrowhead has long been a rotation site for a number of med schools (at times my own, but I don't think right now), I expect that their clinical education will be great. The pre-clinical? it will take some time to gel and deliver a good curriculum. This is a challenge for all new med schools. But if you're a good self-learner, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[MDorBust97]

Just apply to a bunch of private OOS schools with MCAT averages in the 508-512 range... boom problem solved. There's at least 15+ of them.

Haha I know but I'd like to stay on the west coast, best coast, if possible. I also saw you posted on the school specific thread recently, did you interview?

 

[MareNostrummm]

Haha I know but I'd like to stay on the west coast, best coast, if possible. I also saw you posted on the school specific thread recently, did you interview?

Yeah I don't doubt the school will have a solid clinical education for years 3 and 4 but they come off as very disorganized for years 1 and 2. They have repeatedly "accidentally" given rejections to people who were actually waitlisted or accepted. They also waitlisted people who haven't even interviewed yet. Also they won't tell you if they make a mistake on your application status, they just expect you to contact them to verify it... How they can reject people and then not attempt to correct the rejection until you contact them is beyond me. You don't know the real status of your application. The portal also doesn't update. These logistical issues will probably be fixed by next year though.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah I don't doubt the school will have a solid clinical education for years 3 and 4 but they come off as very disorganized for years 1 and 2. They have repeatedly "accidentally" given rejections to people who were actually waitlisted or accepted. They also waitlisted people who haven't even interviewed yet. Also they won't tell you if they make a mistake on your application status, they just expect you to contact them to verify it... The portal also doesn't update. These logistical issues will probably be fixed by next year though.

Off to a good start.

 

[Goro]

Wise @Med Ed and @gyngyn, do you have any thoughts?

 

[Med Ed]

Wise @Med Ed and @gyngyn, do you have any thoughts?

Is it worth applying? Sure, why not? What's there to lose? A few bucks? A day or two?

And if you interview and hate the place, withdrawal is 100% effective in preventing matriculation.

 

[gyngyn]

It's not as sketch as CN"U," at least, thus far.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

It's not as sketch as CN"U," at least, thus far.

How about Kaiser?

 

[MDorBust97]

It's not as sketch as CN"U," at least, thus far.

What's the part that seems a bit sketch? The temp facilities?

 

[MDorBust97]

Is it worth applying? Sure, why not? What's there to lose? A few bucks? A day or two?

And if you interview and hate the place, withdrawal is 100% effective in preventing matriculation.

Got it, so you don't see any major issues like you guys did with CNU? that was my real question/concern when I saw the the two mentioned together as similar. Trying to spend my app fees wisely lol

 

[Med Ed]

Got it, so you don't see any major issues like you guys did with CNU? that was my real question/concern when I saw the the two mentioned together as similar. Trying to spend my app fees wisely lol

The closest parallel to CUSM that comes to mind is actually TCMC (now Geisinger), in that both started as independent, not-for-profit institutions with salable missions and shoestring budgets. TCMC got into financial trouble because Pennsylvania elected a new governor (Tom Corbett) who hacked their state funding support. From afar, at least, CUSM seems to have a sounder financial model. CUSM is also starting with a strong clinical affiliation, which is a step up. TCMC eventually got absorbed by Geisinger, which is probably where it should have originated.

CNU is a build-out from an inflatable for-profit pharmacy school. The closest structural parallel is/was Roseman, which is not-for-profit but also did not get preliminary accreditation.

 

[gyngyn]

What's the part that seems a bit sketch?

It's more than a "bit" sketch! The way the investors put their ROI ahead of their students' well-being is a good example, though.
They have been eligible for federally insured loans and payback mechanisms from day one and have chosen not to apply.

 

[Goro]

It's more than a "bit" sketch! The way the investors put their ROI ahead of their students' well-being is a good example, though.
They have been eligible for federally insured loans and payback mechanisms from day one and have chosen not to apply.

In addition, both gyngyn and Med Ed have mentioned:

1. Their method of selecting the inaugural class was slapdash. They didn't use AMCAS, just faxes and PayPal. This disregard for modern systematic processing makes one wonder if their profit motive was more important than thoughtful consideration.

2. This class ended up with twice as many men as women. The second Class still has more men than women. If their mission precludes thoughtful evaluation of candidates, one wonders what other important elements of education are being missed.

3. A review of faculty credentials STILL reveals a significant lack of scholarship.

4. In a state that is at least 30% Mexican American, they only had a single representative from this group. In the 2nd Class this number has risen to 7, which still is < 10%.

5. They had the chance to enable their students to be able to get federal loans. They refused, and still do so. This says that their profits are more important than their students. Compare this to another new school (UNLV) that covered the bridge to federal loans by offering free tuition.

6. Because of these and other points too numerous to mention, the PD's I know are reluctant to consider these graduates in the same light as other applicants at the moment.

7. The LCME did not really "allow" CNU to have a class starting 2015. The LCME granted preliminary accreditation in June (not unusual), and then CNU took the unprecedented step of seating a class less than three months later. Literally ever other new medical school accredited in the modern era has gone through at least a partial AMCAS cycle. This is why the LCME is apparently pissed off at CNU, and why [students] might end up paying a price later. The only reason for CNU to have done this was to get money flowing in the door ASAP. Again, every other new medical school has used the gap between preliminary accreditation and white coat to shore up the faculty and curriculum.

8. Just compare their mission statement to any other medical school. It’s telling.

 

[gyngyn]

How about Kaiser?

Kaiser has been planning a medical school for over a decade and seems to be taking all prudent steps to make it it a success. There is no evidence that they intend to place its inaugural class at unnecessary financial risk. They also have a depth and breadth of teaching faculty and clinical resources as well as research opportunities.

 

[MDorBust97]

It's more than a "bit" sketch! The way the investors put their ROI ahead of their students' well-being is a good example, though.
They have been eligible for federally insured loans and payback mechanisms from day one and have chosen not to apply.

Ah sorry I wasn't clear, I meant what about CUSM seems a bit sketch to you.

 

[IzzyMandelbaum]

Would you still recommend CalMed over an established DO school?

 

[gyngyn]

Ah sorry I wasn't clear, I meant what about CUSM seems a bit sketch to you.

They hired a bunch of the same individuals that started CNU.
Their admissions process is disorganized.
This is all we know about them for now.

 

[MD-2022]

Having been accepted to both CUSM and CNU (and likely attending CUSM), I can say that the CUSM experience was far better and more transparent. CNU felt like a sham.

Sure, there were kinks for those with borderline stats, but I received an interview 1 week after submitting the secondary, and received the acceptance 3 weeks post-interview.

Most of the kinks should be fixed by next year cycle (when they will probably receive 5000+ applications). But as a matriculating student, I can vouch that they have done their part and I feel comfortable matriculating there. They even constantly reminded us to apply to both their merit and need base scholarship (5-30k). Plus ARMC has the 2nd busiest Emergency Department in CA, and will be a great residency spot for Emergency Medicine

PS. They will also shift to MMI for next year, so it will be more normalized.

 

[biganthony233]

Having been accepted to both CUSM and CNU (and likely attending CUSM), I can say that the CUSM experience was far better and more transparent. CNU felt like a sham.

Sure, there were kinks for those with borderline stats, but I received an interview 1 week after submitting the secondary, and received the acceptance 3 weeks post-interview.

Most of the kinks should be fixed by next year cycle (when they will probably receive 5000+ applications). But as a matriculating student, I can vouch that they have done their part and I feel comfortable matriculating there. They even constantly reminded us to apply to both their merit and need base scholarship (5-30k). Plus ARMC has the 2nd busiest Emergency Department in CA, and will be a great residency spot for Emergency Medicine

PS. They will also shift to MMI for next year, so it will be more normalized.

I second this. I cant speak to CNU but I felt very good at CUSM during my interview day and my process was exactly parallel to yours and very streamlined. In fact I felt better and more comfortable there than at my other interviews. A new school will have its logistical and administrative kinks but don't let it deter you. Even brand name schools have these issues. I distinctly remember now and then some big Ugrad make headlines by accidentally admitting a few people.

Also, none of the staff shied away from talking about the fact that its a new school, prelim. LCME accreditation, the fact its currently in a kinda crappy temp. facility (even the president mentioned it; and going back to what MedEd posted, Gessinger was also in a temp. facility at a local comm. college I believe for 2-3 years during construction of its permanent building and it turned out fine) or the temp. lack of Fed Loans. The financial aid staff was very open about that and took initiative to find outside sources of funding as well as encouraging everyone to apply for their own internal scholarships.

OP I say def apply. Obviously there are better choices but if this is your only one (like me) its a solid only choice IMO. Plus Kaiser hasn't been approved by LCME to accept students yet, may not be open this cycle. Who knows this could be decent mid-teir or top school in the future, NYU, Vandy are all schools which have recent years skyrocketed in rank like 20-40 spots. Plus CUSM already has a dedicated "home" program in arrowhead, which some established MD schools dont even have (like Rosy Frank)

 

[DameJulie]

Plus CUSM already has a dedicated "home" program in arrowhead, which some established MD schools dont even have (like Rosy Frank)

could you explain that a bit more on what's a "home" program?

 

[biganthony233]

could you explain that a bit more on what's a "home" program?

Medical schools generally (not all) have a main primary teaching hospital affiliated with it and is where the majority of students do their M3-M4 clinical rotations. For example MGH for Harvard. Usually the affiliated hospital has some residency programs (Arrowhead has EM, IM, FM, gen surg, few others) which can give you a leg up to match into them if you do well as the PDs and attendings know who you are and have watched you during clinicals. These are the home field advantage programs for you. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[MDorBust97]

Awesome, I guess Mr Max up there was right. Some of the negatives were probably just people gunning to keep applicants away and lessen the competition pool lol. Not surprised though

 

[DameJulie]

Anyone know the secondary essay prompts this year, and if there's any screen pre-secondary?

 

[Starbuxian]

Anyone know the secondary essay prompts this year, and if there's any screen pre-secondary?

I'd like to know this too.