Is Hospitalist the GOAT career for a single, young male?

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There are no dentist on Mt.Priviledge, maybe like a small hill somewhere they can go


Well there for sure aren't any dentists on top of mount privi-LEDGE...

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can we please have another day of purging to get rid of some of these people in allo?
 
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If you want a real GOAT career just move down to Tijuana and set up shop next to a donkey show (everyone's tired of those anyways). Best part: no med school loans, so everything is pure profit!
 
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To OP,

Like, I think it was SouthernIM, said, your estimates of a hospitalist's salary are rather optimistic. And if you think Hospitalist is a great career, which I will neither contest nor support, then do it. Our opinions should be irrelevant to you, IMO.
 
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To OP,

Like, I think it was SouthernIM, said, your estimates of a hospitalist's salary are rather optimistic. And if you think Hospitalist is a great career, which I will neither contest nor support, then do it. Our opinions should be irrelevant to you, IMO.

Is that estimate really conservative? 225k? Legit asking, not contesting. For a non-uber competitive area of the country in a non-academic position. I've heard 250k is not unreasonable.

I simply meant to spark discussion about how good of a career (albeit temporary one) this seems for a young, single male. The quick time to income, potential to make more or specialize, or take large blocks of time off (a week allows some more meaningful things than two days typical to other specialties).
 
Is that estimate really conservative? 225k? Legit asking, not contesting. For a non-uber competitive area of the country in a non-academic position. I've heard 250k is not unreasonable.

I simply meant to spark discussion about how good of a career (albeit temporary one) this seems for a young, single male. The quick time to income, potential to make more or specialize, or take large blocks of time off (a week allows some more meaningful things than two days typical to other specialties).

Don't worry about money. You became a doctor to help people and save lives. It's your passion. You should work for free if you want to be a good doctor with dignity.
 
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somebody please give your interpretation of what the point was, then we'll see who was closest.

You said "I've seen pics too, you're not as hot as you think you are".

Your implication was that you're not hot enough to be making half-baked or stupid statements, because for those who are, they can say what they want and people won't care because we like looking at them saying it.

And you came off as 100% an dingus while making this statement.

EDIT: a**hole was edited to dingus
 
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@DermViser , I'll probably block you from now on, its weird how you follow me around SDN commenting on ever post I make, I'm not attracted to men.

Don't make fun of my Internet friends. Otherwise, I will get really really mad.
 
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Is that estimate really conservative? 225k? Legit asking, not contesting. For a non-uber competitive area of the country in a non-academic position. I've heard 250k is not unreasonable.

I simply meant to spark discussion about how good of a career (albeit temporary one) this seems for a young, single male. The quick time to income, potential to make more or specialize, or take large blocks of time off (a week allows some more meaningful things than two days typical to other specialties).

I am a big believer in efficient markets. If there is easy money in something you tend to see people follow the easy money. Step 1 scores and the abusiveness of the training pathway then rapidly rise until the money is no longer easy. For historical reference see derm and rads. More recently see PM&R and ER.

The fact that hospitalists have been around for awhile and no one is flocking to it is a pretty good sign that it sucks. Its not a great career, it has a lot of drawbacks. I have some theories as to why, which I will expound on below, but those are theories. However the fact that almost everyone in IM flees into fellowship, and that no one is fighting for these jobs, is very good evidence that the job does suck.

Theories on why being a hospitalist sucks.

1) 29 is not young. I'm there: R3,about that age. I'm old. This is 5 years past the age that normal people have kids. No one talks about the 'youthful indiscretions' of their early 30s. Very few people go clubbing. 100:1 when you get there you'll have a spouse and maybe kids. You won't want a week off at a time. You'll want weekends. And holidays. And the chance to come home to see your loved ones every day like a normal person.

2) You can't just drift into fellowship when you're done. You need LORs. Research. Other BS. Keeping that door open is a second job. If hospitalist is a destination you might be able to work 'just' every other week, but be prepared to have several side projects if you want to be something else later on.

3) The hours aren't great. They aren't 8 hour shifts. Its 7 13 hour shifts in a row. 90 hours every other week is not an easy schedule.

4) Its a high stress, high liability environment. The advantage of being an outpatient generalist is that it is very, very easy to punt something when you don't know what to do with it. A hospitalist largely loses that privilege. If the ED admits it, and the ICU won't take it, you have to see it.

5) You work in one of the most out of control environments in the hospital. This is the big one for me. No other physician in the hospital, not even the ED doc, is as completely out of control of his workspace as a hospitalist. You are obligated to negotiate with RTs, nurses, specialist groups, ed physicians, and ICU physicians who you rely on to provide reasonable patient care and who have little real incentive to treat you with respect or consideration. Good luck.
 
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Is that estimate really conservative? 225k? Legit asking, not contesting. For a non-uber competitive area of the country in a non-academic position. I've heard 250k is not unreasonable.

I simply meant to spark discussion about how good of a career (albeit temporary one) this seems for a young, single male. The quick time to income, potential to make more or specialize, or take large blocks of time off (a week allows some more meaningful things than two days typical to other specialties).

I understand fully that academics is a skewed lens, but starting salary for hospitalists at my hospital is about 125K. From what I've heard from Medicine residents looking for hospitalist jobs at private hospitals in the area - they are looking at 175 for jobs elsewhere; 200-225 if they want to move to geographically/culturally undesirable areas 1-2 hours from here.

I'm far from an expert on the range of salaries involved, but you said "upwards of 300K a year" and "conservatively 225k". You're off by a hundred thousand in my neck of the woods
 
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I understand fully that academics is a skewed lens, but starting salary for hospitalists at my hospital is about 125K. From what I've heard from Medicine residents looking for hospitalist jobs at private hospitals in the area - they are looking at 175 for jobs elsewhere; 200-225 if they want to move to geographically/culturally undesirable areas 1-2 hours from here.

I'm far from an expert on the range of salaries involved, but you said "upwards of 300K a year" and "conservatively 225k". You're off by a hundred thousand in my neck of the woods

Upwards of $300k with moonlighting and a decent base pay. Is that unreasonable too?

And $125k? :bag::bag::bag:
 
Is that estimate really conservative? 225k? Legit asking, not contesting. For a non-uber competitive area of the country in a non-academic position. I've heard 250k is not unreasonable.

I simply meant to spark discussion about how good of a career (albeit temporary one) this seems for a young, single male. The quick time to income, potential to make more or specialize, or take large blocks of time off (a week allows some more meaningful things than two days typical to other specialties).
Eh, I'm not sure but I think the average Hospitalist salary is closer to 180-200k. Of course your income will depend on location, experience etc. I think 225 would be at the higher end of Hospitalist salary.
 
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Oh wow, CHAOS ORB!!!!!

Yep :)

And you can moonlight in the ER if you want to.

Eh... not so much. Getting less and less frequent each year for non EM people. And by the time you finish school and residency, the opportunities will be even less.
There will be various other moonlighting opportunities for hospitalists, but they will resemble your day job far more.
 
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Eh, I'm not sure but I think the average Hospitalist salary is closer to 180-200k. Of course your income will depend on location, experience etc. I think 225 would be at the higher end of Hospitalist salary.

maybe in 2009.
 
You're kind of right.
http://www1.salary.com/Physician-Hospitalist-salary.html
75th percentile makes about 230k. Presumably, it would take a while to end up at that point. My estimates were slightly low, but 300k and similar numbers are extremely unlikely.

Right but that's the average for all hospitalists, not for the start of the career. It also doesn't account for regional and academic/private distinctions. As I said If you want to move from my town to the armpit of America two hours away you can get 225, but not here.

And the whole moonlighting thing - (a) opportunities for ED moonlighting are next to nonexistent and (b) kind of cuts into that GOAT lifestyle clubbing on your week off, no?

I think @Perrotfish nailed it. The market reveals a lot and the fact that people aren't flocking to this career speaks for itself
 
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My cousin made 225k about 5 years ago... Now has his own practice... Moonlight 1 weekend/month... cover a couple a nursing homes... Salary is in the 350k+ the last time I saw his tax return.
 
Right but that's the average for all hospitalists, not for the start of the career. It also doesn't account for regional and academic/private distinctions. As I said If you want to move from my town to the armpit of America two hours away you can get 225, but not here.

And the whole moonlighting thing - (a) opportunities for ED moonlighting are next to nonexistent and (b) kind of cuts into that GOAT lifestyle clubbing on your week off, no?

I think @Perrotfish nailed it. The market reveals a lot and the fact that people aren't flocking to this career fact speaks for itself
No, I completely agree. Like I said its an average, if you will, of the median. It doesn't account for regional factors, different types of practice, experience etc. 230k is 75th percentile, and that's not neccesarily a quick road. But what do I know?
 
I'd rather do EM. $200-250/hr shift work ftw.
 
Well, most hospitalists I know and some of my classmates are making upwards of $200k. I know what the surveys are showing but in my experience the figures look lower than reality for whatever reason. Heck, I have friends in downtown Philly making >$200K (recent and new grads).

I agree, though. It's not as sweet as it sounds. You don't work one week on and one off. No. What you do is work in a week what most people work in two. Works for some people, though.

Most employers won't give you paid time off. Your time off is your weeks off. But that's not really fair when you consider what I said above. You are not working any less than a traditional doctor. Internists were tricked big on this one.
 
I understand fully that academics is a skewed lens, but starting salary for hospitalists at my hospital is about 125K. From what I've heard from Medicine residents looking for hospitalist jobs at private hospitals in the area - they are looking at 175 for jobs elsewhere; 200-225 if they want to move to geographically/culturally undesirable areas 1-2 hours from here.

I'm far from an expert on the range of salaries involved, but you said "upwards of 300K a year" and "conservatively 225k". You're off by a hundred thousand in my neck of the woods
Same here.

Our starting rate for hospitalists is $175K.
 
I'd rather do EM. $200-250/hr shift work ftw.

Again, I am a believer in efficient markets. The problem with chasing easy money is that when you get there odds are both the easiness and the money will be gone. For reference see bit coins, pets.com stock, and a career in Radiology. Don't buy at the peak of a bubble.
 
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Again, I am a believer in efficient markets. The problem with chasing easy money is that when you get there odds are both the easiness and the money will be gone. For reference see bit coins, pets.com stock, and a career in Radiology. Don't buy at the peak of a bubble.

Aren't radiologists making big bucks?
 
Lol. I'm not going to rag on your OP. I remember being of a similar frame of mind. As you progress through this vile process, you'll most likely come to realize it's not what it may seem from the outside. You see one week on, one week off, and picture strutting along the hallowed halls of some pristine institution during work, then gallivanting around Barbados on the week off. The reality? Hospitalist work is an absolute nightmare. You're the scut factory of the hospital. Punished with an overwhelming amount of admissions, documentation, social work, and disturbing minutiae. The week off? Oh, yeah. The first 3 days off are spent in recovery from the preceding week. The three days before you start work again are spent in a nauseous dread of the week to come, wondering how on God's green earth you ended up doing this for a living. I guess that gives you one day to enjoy yourself. That's probably the day you'll start feeding your nascent alcoholism.
 
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Aren't radiologists making big bucks?

They went through an enormous salary boom with the invention of axial imaging, then they peaked, and they are increasingly outsourced and automated. Other than interventional radiologists their salaries are now declining, the market is getting saturated, and the step 1 scores/fill rate for the field is going down. Still not a bad field to be finishing residency in right now, but there's no clear floor for salaries and by medical career standards its a pretty good example of a bubble.
 
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Seeing this thread, and the one about physician income redistribution, plus my own experience as a newly minted MS2, here is my PSA..

PLEASE do not think you know anything about medicine (or medical school for that matter) after a month of MS1, or even a year. You really cannot speak to an actual practice until you have AT LEAST seen third year, and really even then you're pretty naive. It's to your own benefit to realize you are still completely in the dark until presumably half way through residency.
 
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Again, I am a believer in efficient markets. The problem with chasing easy money is that when you get there odds are both the easiness and the money will be gone. For reference see bit coins, pets.com stock, and a career in Radiology. Don't buy at the peak of a bubble.

Great contributions to this thread.

What do you see as "the next big thing"? What is a good field to "buy into" right now? GI? Derm? I guess Derm isn't easy to get, nor is GI.
 
Great contributions to this thread.

What do you see as "the next big thing"? What is a good field to "buy into" right now? GI? Derm? I guess Derm isn't easy to get, nor is GI.

I am, again, a big believer in efficient markets. If you look up the economic theory of efficient markets, the gist of it is that you can't guess the next big thing. All available knowledge about the next big thing has already been tabulated by legions of financial experts and used to create the current price of a stock, no data is unaccounted for. So any guess you make on what the price would be tomorrow is really a flip of the coin. I would say the same thing for guessing the future of medical subspecialties.

Life is long and you're going to spend more than half your waking hours at the office. Choose something you'd be proud to do. Choose something that you'd like to do. Don't chase easy money. Odds are it won't be there, or it won't be easy. And if by some chance you do stumble on to easy money then odds are it won't solve any of your problems.

I chose Peds, BTW. I would choose it again.
 
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Life is long and you're going to spend more than half your waking hours at the office. Choose something you'd be proud to do. Choose something that you'd like to do. Don't chase easy money. Odds are it won't be there, or it won't be easy. And if by some chance you do stumble on to easy money then odds are it won't solve any of your problems.

I chose Peds, BTW. I would choose it again.
:clap:
 
$250/hr? This is 400k+/yr on a 32 hrs/wk... That kind of salary must be in the middle of nowhere for EM.

It's an exaggeration. It's also someone checking out the ass of EM as it walks by. They're not seeing the crazy eyes, or the way the rest of the town looks at you when you're seen with her/him, or the abusive and horrible nature of that person.

If you're in love, you're in love. But don't make the same mistake so many do.
 
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best to search through the specialty specific forums (IM, EM) for current salary questions.
 
What do you see as "the next big thing"? What is a good field to "buy into" right now?

Pediatric In-Vitro Fertilization is a niche market...
Geriatric Psycho-Oncology...
Neurosurgical naturopathy...

So many things to choose from.

But seriously... there's no way to know what's going to boom or bust in the future. Just do what you enjoy.
 
Lol. I'm not going to rag on your OP. I remember being of a similar frame of mind. As you progress through this vile process, you'll most likely come to realize it's not what it may seem from the outside. You see one week on, one week off, and picture strutting along the hallowed halls of some pristine institution during work, then gallivanting around Barbados on the week off. The reality? Hospitalist work is an absolute nightmare. You're the scut factory of the hospital. Punished with an overwhelming amount of admissions, documentation, social work, and disturbing minutiae. The week off? Oh, yeah. The first 3 days off are spent in recovery from the preceding week. The three days before you start work again are spent in a nauseous dread of the week to come, wondering how on God's green earth you ended up doing this for a living. I guess that gives you one day to enjoy yourself. That's probably the day you'll start feeding your nascent alcoholism.
Good grief, I got so depressed just reading that.
 
They went through an enormous salary boom with the invention of axial imaging, then they peaked, and they are increasingly outsourced and automated. Other than interventional radiologists their salaries are now declining, the market is getting saturated, and the step 1 scores/fill rate for the field is going down. Still not a bad field to be finishing residency in right now, but there's no clear floor for salaries and by medical career standards its a pretty good example of a bubble.
I feel most sorry for people who went thru medical school who aimed and got Radiology when salaries were like $450-$500K (so quite competitive) and now as they are graduating from residency, they aren't getting those jobs. They obviously like it for other reasons (not having to do mundane patient care documentation and tasks), but it's still daunting.
 
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