A few of my classmates returned from OBC a few weeks ago. They said that this was the last year that the HPSP summer OBC would be 6 weeks. They were told that starting next year it would be either two 6 week training sessions or a 12 week. They were told that there is going to be more infantry type training so that they will be more prepared for types of things in Iraq. I haven't seen anything new on the OBC website. Is there any merit to this?
Is HPSP OBC changing starting next year?
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Dadoh said:
where's the pukey smilie when i need it?
OBC used to be so much fun
honestly-- if an engagement comes down to your doc needing to put rounds downrange, you're screwed. i *kinda* understand them wanting us to know more of the day to day infantry life, but if they REALLY wanna kill their HPSP numbers, watch the people leave in droves after a week of STX lanes.
PLUS-- two 6 week blocks or even a single 12 week block would be nearly impossible for people in medschool. most people get a "summer" off after first year but even then it's maybe 10 weeks, and not everyone finishes/starts at the same time.i vote
for their own sake, they better leave it well enough alone.--your friendly neighborhood reminiscing about JR's in the BOQ caveman
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I don't see how they can fit a 12-week training session in anywhere, unless you do your last 6 or the big 12 chunk right before reporting to your residency location.
By the way, what is the logic behind this? As far as I know no docs in Iraq/Afghanistan have really NEEDED additional combat/infantry training.
By the way, what is the logic behind this? As far as I know no docs in Iraq/Afghanistan have really NEEDED additional combat/infantry training.
what my classmates were saying is that it will either be 2 summers of 6 weeks or 12 weeks after school and before residency. I am still hoping that my classmates missheard the information.HooahDOc said:
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Dadoh said:
they'll have to push back the start of residencies. i graduated on may 15th, then had to report to my residency june 11. there really is not logistical way to pull this off -- even the 6 then 6 doesn't make sense b/c you'll forget all you did the first session, lol.
--your friendly neighborhood hopes your friend was wrong as well caveman
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I can neither confirm nor deny the rumors, but I do remember a powerpoint presentation (one of thousands) at OBC '05 that said the entire army was shifting over to a standardized format for all branches (I believe the acronym was "BOLC"), followed by specialized branch training (which might be the 6+6 the OP was refering to). They said something about most of the army was already doing this, and that AMEDD was the exception, but that this would be fixed in the near future. I wasn't really paying that close of attention, because once I figured out it didn't apply to me, I went to my happy daydream place......
OBC is already a waste of time (learning too much stuff that's going to be changed/forgotten in the 7 to 10 years it takes before any of us are deployable). I recognize their desire to instill some understanding of Big Army in every future doc, but 12 weeks is ridiculous.
OBC is already a waste of time (learning too much stuff that's going to be changed/forgotten in the 7 to 10 years it takes before any of us are deployable). I recognize their desire to instill some understanding of Big Army in every future doc, but 12 weeks is ridiculous.
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deegs said:
As did we all....
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While I may be an outlier, let me say that changing OBC is for the better. After being in the operational Army for 2 years, I realize that OBC taught me nothing that I could actually use in real Army units- I also did not really help with much inside the hospital either. The best bet would be to have OBC at Fort Benning with the Infantry dudes and maybe a week long intoduction into the Army medical department. I am not sure how it would work or it is even possible, but we would definitely be more ready for deployments and operational issuse. OBC was a great time a 6 week party down in San Antonio, but it did not prepare anyone for the realities of the today's army like it was supposed to.
Here is the deal from someone who is in the first of the new OBC classes. They will be making all OBC the same 10-12 weeks, depending on which Branch you are in. For the Medical Corp (Doctors) it will be 11 weeks. There will be no abridged classes anymore - meaning it will be difficult if not impossible to go during medical school for anyone. Instead - most people will be going before their first duty assignment.
As for the content - they are trying to standardize it for all new officers in the Army. In fact, half the class starts OBC with the Infantry BOLC, and the other half gets "the same thing (not really)" at Ft. Sam from the AMEDD people. The first half we have spent doing Common Troop Tasks (M9, M16, Convoy operations, Radio operations, etc...) and a total of 2 1/2 weeks in the field. The next half is AMEDD related with the last week being Branch specific (Medical Corp).
As for the first half - the days of easy OBC in the Army are over. No golfing for sure. Classes are mandatory and are from 0500 to 1600. Field excercises are long with sometime 18 hour days. Not only that, don't expect to see your family unless they come down to visit you. Any travel outside 50 miles requires a pass (only able to travel 350 miles from San Antonio). Beyond that requires Leave. They will not grant Leave except for emergencies until after the first 8 weeks. (They are trying to make it like Initial Entry Training - Basic Training for some unknown ******* reason).
About 75% fo what we have learned so far has been completely a waste of time. Yes the convoy training, M9, and M16 may come in handy. But if they are ever assigning doctors to clear buildings (MOUT) or to call in indirect fire support (things we have been wasting our time with) - there are bigger problems than you can imagine on the battlefield.
About how difficult things are - the truth is PT is challenging (3-5 days per week), everyone will do fine. The most difficult thing is to stay awake through death by power point. I thought this was a joke, but they really try to kill you with power point. Literally hours sitting in a classroom, with someone reading the slides to you.
As for the next half of the course - we will see.
Oh yeah, try to get as much administrative things done before coming. They administrative side is incompetent and don't even try. There are still people in the class who haven't been paid despite almost 6 weeks here. I still do not have ID card. All that gets done is every other day the cadre in charge request a list of who has problems and a copy of their orders. Then I think they use those papers to stock the restroom. Because nothing gets resolved and a few days later they ask for the exact same thing. A little bit on the frustrating side.
Good luck to anyone who accepts an HPSP - you will need it. I will rant somewhere else on that.
As for the content - they are trying to standardize it for all new officers in the Army. In fact, half the class starts OBC with the Infantry BOLC, and the other half gets "the same thing (not really)" at Ft. Sam from the AMEDD people. The first half we have spent doing Common Troop Tasks (M9, M16, Convoy operations, Radio operations, etc...) and a total of 2 1/2 weeks in the field. The next half is AMEDD related with the last week being Branch specific (Medical Corp).
As for the first half - the days of easy OBC in the Army are over. No golfing for sure. Classes are mandatory and are from 0500 to 1600. Field excercises are long with sometime 18 hour days. Not only that, don't expect to see your family unless they come down to visit you. Any travel outside 50 miles requires a pass (only able to travel 350 miles from San Antonio). Beyond that requires Leave. They will not grant Leave except for emergencies until after the first 8 weeks. (They are trying to make it like Initial Entry Training - Basic Training for some unknown ******* reason).
About 75% fo what we have learned so far has been completely a waste of time. Yes the convoy training, M9, and M16 may come in handy. But if they are ever assigning doctors to clear buildings (MOUT) or to call in indirect fire support (things we have been wasting our time with) - there are bigger problems than you can imagine on the battlefield.
About how difficult things are - the truth is PT is challenging (3-5 days per week), everyone will do fine. The most difficult thing is to stay awake through death by power point. I thought this was a joke, but they really try to kill you with power point. Literally hours sitting in a classroom, with someone reading the slides to you.
As for the next half of the course - we will see.
Oh yeah, try to get as much administrative things done before coming. They administrative side is incompetent and don't even try. There are still people in the class who haven't been paid despite almost 6 weeks here. I still do not have ID card. All that gets done is every other day the cadre in charge request a list of who has problems and a copy of their orders. Then I think they use those papers to stock the restroom. Because nothing gets resolved and a few days later they ask for the exact same thing. A little bit on the frustrating side.
Good luck to anyone who accepts an HPSP - you will need it. I will rant somewhere else on that.
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CON,
How can you have experienced the new OBC when the OP's buddies just returned from doing the old OBC?
How can you have experienced the new OBC when the OP's buddies just returned from doing the old OBC?
The last short (HPSP/USHUS) OBC course just graduated (last week I think or the week before). As for my course - it started 4 weeks after theirs. They run in cycles and sometimes overlap.HooahDOc said:
Cheers.
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I guess enough people like me complained about how useless OBC was for us when we got into the real army after being in the hospital that they decided to change it. I am encouraged by this. If you are doing things with the infantry dudes- will they let you go to Airborne and Ranger school afterwards?- that would be pretty cool if they did.
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HooahDOc said:
I have not a clue whether he has or has not expereinced the New OBC, but the description sounds pretty much like every Navy training that I have had anything to do with...
2 days worth of training condensed into 6 weeks.
i want out
That one I don't know about. Not everyone works with the Infantry - only half of the class does, and I am not sure how they pick that group, but no doctors were in it. A few PA's, 70Bravos (administrators), and DustOff pilots, not even sure if they had nurses in the group.hosskp1 said:
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Do you have to stay on base or wherever they "make" you during OTS? Are you allowed to go out into the civilian world at all? (have a car, etc...) Anyone?
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Don't know about OBC, but I just got back from Air Force OTS and they're seriously trying to implement a 12 week course for HPSP by the end of the year. They're also making the regular officer training 16 weeks. My flight commander said these changes were due primarily to an extra 40 hours or so of mandatory "cultural awareness" lecture time, although they were also talking about doing more field exercises as well.
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dexadental said:
While you're there you have four privilege levels. For about the first two weeks you're at levels 4 and 3 and have to stay on campus and on base, respectively. Second and first class trainees can go off base within a 120 mile radius. You can stay off base overnight if you submit a form to your flight commander, but only on Friday or Saturday nights.
Dadoh said:
I just got back from HPSP/USUHS Army OBC and NO it is NOT going to 12 weeks. At least not in the next year or two. It has to be six weeks long because that is the longest time they could get considering all med schools get off and start at different times.
However, the current plan that LTC Henry briefed us on is to go through the six weeks at a break neck pace, including weekends. No more weekends off. the field will be three weeks straight, including weekends to fit all of the newly required info in.
Your classmates got confused between the new general Army OBC and AMEDD OBC plan, but the HPSP will still be 6 weeks, just more info crammed in.
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If anybody doesn't like all the new hooah stuff, or isn't too keen on not getting weekends off, just remember you don't have to do OBC. You can get constructive credit for it just by finishing medical school or internship, I'm not sure which.
Thanks for this information. My classmates did mention something about the 6 weeks with no weekends, but I quickly forgot that they mentioned that when they started talking about the 12 weeks (apparently with weekends off) after school.WACAT said:
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Dadoh said:
Neither have I. I was told that if you do not complete AMEDD OBC before you graduate, you end up having to complete regular OBC.
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Dadoh said:
No plans to change COT Commissioned Officer TRaining for the AF...
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la dottoressa said:
Not going to happen even if it ever was suggested. Why?
A. It is just a terrible idea, and deserves to be stillborn and, even if it weren't . . .
B. There is no place in the schedule of a typical 4-year medical school course where a second six-week non-academic period can be inserted.
C. There are other unexploited opportunities in operational medicine schools to add to or modify instruction to meet operational needs, and that is what is all about in the end.
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As an HPSP counselor and pre-med major, I have not heard anything about that 12 thing . As far as more infantry type training, it would probably not be because Docs are going downrange with the medics but because they are trying to teach Docs things all soldiers should know, regardless of occupation. How to move under fire, how to react to an IED etc. Basically survival. IEDs do not care if you are a Physician or Grunt. Not to say that it would happen to a Doctor but if it did and you weren't trained, the Army is one less doc because nobody told him/her how to duck under fire. Better to train for something that may never happen than not be trained for something when it does
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HooahDOc said:
Sorry, I've been on leave. Here is some info I received in an email:
OFFICER BASIC COURSE (OBC)/CAPTAIN CAREER COURSE (CCC) CONSTRUCTIVE CREDIT BOARD FOR MEDICAL CORPS OFFICERS
DATE: A board will convene on 1 November 2006 at the United States Army Human Resources Command (AHRC).
ELIGIBILITY:
Officer Basic Course (OBC) Constructive Credit--as a minimum the officer must have prior attendance at a non-AMEDD OBC or at least one year of AMEDD Active Federal Commissioned Service (AFCS) in a capacity other than First Year Graduate Medical Education (FYGME) as of TBD.
Captain Career Course (CCC/formerly OAC) Constructive Credit--as a minimum the officer must have prior attendance at a non-AMEDD CCC or credit for completion of the AMEDD OBC and at least six years of AMEDD AFCS with at least three in an AMEDD capacity other than an educational program as of TBD.
APPLICATION: Officers must submit a memorandum requesting constructive credit (sample attached below) and a memorandum of endorsement by the Department Chief, Deputy Commander for Clinical Services or Commander. In the memorandum requesting credit, officers must demonstrate distinguished duty or service that includes the common subject matter of the OBC/CCC. Officers must also state specific reasons as to why they did not complete AMEDD OBC/CCC. Officers are reminded to review their Official Military Personnel File (OMPF) and DA Photo to ensure all documents are present and the photo is current. It is recommended that DA Photos be no older than two years. Officers can review their OMPFs through Army Knowledge on Line (AKO)-OMPF using their AKO ID and Password. The direct link to AKO to review their OMPFs on line is https://ompf.hoffman.army.mil. Officers can also review their Officer Record Brief (ORB) on line through AHRC Online-My-ORB using their AKO ID and Password. The direct link to AKO to review their ORBs on line is https://www.hrc.army.mil.
SUSPENSE DATE: In order to be considered by this board, all application documents (to include the DA Photo) must arrive at Medical Corps Branch, AHRC, not later than 4 October 2006. Requests that do not meet the eligibility requirements and require a waiver must arrive at Medical Corps Branch, Human Resources Command, no later than 15 September 2006.
