Is it 3.5/30 really a safe bet?

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Blondnuttyboy

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Hey family,

Everyone seems to say "if you're 3.5/30 and apply broadly, you'll be fine."
Why don't I believe this? Nowaday, every safety school in the nation has over 5000 kids applying. Are we implying that most of these kids dont have 3.5/30? B/c i dont think that's true...

I think we underestimate how important it is to stand out. To be honest, I'm shaking in my boots b/c I'm literally at that range..I'm like 3.5 -3.6, 31. And I got rejected to every school I applied to last time - AND i've been told my many that I "stand out."

I think my point is that nowaday, with so many people applying, there is no such thing as a "safety" school and no such thing as "good enough" stats. I'm very discouraged and need to reinvent my app.

Any thoughts?
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I agree. There are a lot of factors at play here that can circumvent the 3.0/30 myth, you can have lower stats and get accepted or you can have higher and not get accepted.

Yes, my alter ego is named Captain Obvious.
 
Blondnuttyboy said:
Hey family,

Everyone seems to say "if you're 3.5/30 and apply broadly, you'll be fine."
Why don't I believe this? Nowaday, every safety school in the nation has over 5000 kids applying. Are we implying that most of these kids dont have 3.5/30? B/c i dont think that's true...

I think we underestimate how important it is to stand out. To be honest, I'm shaking in my boots b/c I'm literally at that range..I'm like 3.5 -3.6, 31. And I got rejected to every school I applied to last time - AND i've been told my many that I "stand out."

I think my point is that nowaday, with so many people applying, there is no such thing as a "safety" school and no such thing as "good enough" stats. I'm very discouraged and need to reinvent my app.

Any thoughts?
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3.5/30 is the average for matriculants. So what people are saying is that people with these stats tend to do alright in the process. But numbers are only a portion of the process. Your essays, LORs, ECs, interviewing ability etc all play a role. So no, someone with a 3.5/30 is not guaranteed to get in. There are, in fact, people with much much higher stats than this that don't get in their first time (several on SDN in recent years). But the odds are certainly much better than someone with below those stats.

Talk to admissions people over the summer and find out what you can do to improve your application for a subsequent cycle. It's possible you fell short in one of these non-numerical areas.
 
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3.5 and 30 are of course OK if you are attending a very selective college, but a 3.5 30 from middle of road large state U does not guarantee acceptance, and forget about applying to a top 25 research school, 25-50 will be doable but reaches - this doesn't mean you wont get in, but unless you have a hook, great research, URM, etc you need to apply VERY widely and very realistically...plenty of 3.3 and 29 Ivy grads are having to apply for the second and third time e.g.
 
yeah it all depends where you apply, but the data suggests if you pick your schools wisely and have everything else in order, you should be okay.
 
"Rule of thumb" is 3.5/30. I don't think anyone said it was 'guaranteed'. What you majored in, your ECs, your school, your research etc will factor in for many schools (at my school, those were all factors in people getting in with less than 3.5/30 it seems). But the general 'borderline' candidate is about a 3.5/30. And yeah, I second that a 3.5 is more subjective than the 30. The significance of a 3.5 will vary from school to school and major to major but a 30 is forever (or at least it does at the school I am at).
 
I have not gotten in anywhere yet with a 3.6/30 so NO...Shoot for the stars dont just shoot for the average
 
That would get you in late at my low-ranked state school unless there were obvious red flags. West coast no way.

Just make sure that your application matches the schools you are interested in. A lot of people here have extremely grandiose ideas about what it takes to get in here or there. The MSAR shall set you free.
 
I have similar stats and had a rough time this year. I plan on gaining additional clinical exposure and improving my science gpa. Numbers play a huge role, but you need to pad them with your ECs, PS, interview, etc.
 
For the latest year that we have numbers, average for matriculants is 3.6 GPA and 30 MCAT. Are you "safe" being average? No, medical schools look for "above average" people. There are NO "safe" numbers in this process. Do the best you can with undergraduate GPA and MCAT. In addition, you have to set yourself out from the crowd with good LORs, excellent extracurriculars and a well-written personal statement that shows you and your qualifications for medical school in the most positive light. No one is a "lock" when it comes to medical school acceptance.
 
In this day and age, 3.5/30 is not a safe bet by any means but there are certainly things you can do at this point to raise your chances: applying early and broadly, taking extra care with your personal statement, preparing extensively for interviews, etc. <---these things sound obvious but you'd be amazed how few people do all of them. That's how you stand out from the thousands of other applicants with 3.5/30 numbers.
 
Iniqitous said:
3.5 and 30 are of course OK if you are attending a very selective college, but a 3.5 30 from middle of road large state U does not guarantee acceptance, and forget about applying to a top 25 research school, 25-50 will be doable but reaches - this doesn't mean you wont get in, but unless you have a hook, great research, URM, etc you need to apply VERY widely and very realistically...plenty of 3.3 and 29 Ivy grads are having to apply for the second and third time e.g.
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I don't believe this for one second. Unless the student from the selective college had something else going on, I don't think they'd have any advantage. And if the selective-college student was from a state like CA, and the student from the middle of the road was from say, Arizona, I bet (almost know) that the student at the less selective college from Arizona would be attending medical school the next year, most likely at his state school, while the kid at the selective college would be taking the MCAT again and doing a Post-Bacc.
 
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I think when you hear that 3.5/30 are 'safe' numbers, it means you won't be automatically screened out at most schools.
 
RokChalkJayhawk said:
I don't believe this for one second. Unless the student from the selective college had something else going on, I don't think they'd have any advantage. And if the selective-college student was from a state like CA, and the student from the middle of the road was from say, Arizona, I bet (almost know) that the student at the less selective college from Arizona would be attending medical school the next year, most likely at his state school, while the kid at the selective college would be taking the MCAT again and doing a Post-Bacc.
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while you are right i think he/she means that the GPA will be forgiven more in a more selective, more difficult school where in some cases (minus grade inflated places), graduating GPAs tend to be lower and some of the schools MIT, etc are known for harder curriculum. the MCAT however i do not believe will be excused or looked at differently because of what type of school you went to.
 
I read in mdapplicants that in 2005 an Asian boy from UC Berkeley did not get accepted by any med schools - his stats are 3.92 GPA, 34R MCAT. The reasons given are lack of research and clinical experience. He strengthened his application and re-applied the follow year. This time he got accepted by two med schools.

One of my Asian friends applied for the 2007 cycle. He is from Cali, has stats of 3.81 / 32Q. He applied broadly to 25 schools, had only 7 interviews. So far received only one acceptance from an east coast lower tier school, and waitlisted by 3 mid tier schools.

There is very little safety or guarantee in med school application.
 
3.5 and 30 are both not stand out. Here is what my interviewer told me when I asked him. There are 3 things you need.

1. GPA
2. MCAT
3. EC stuff (volunteer, clinical)

You need to stand out in one to have a chance. Having 3.5 and 30 (nothing to write home about) means that you need to stand out in EC. Otherwise your just way too average.
 
I got rejected everywhere with a 3.8 and 32R. All other aspects of my application were fine too if you are wondering.
 
MEG@COOL said:
I got rejected everywhere with a 3.8 and 32R. All other aspects of my application were fine too if you are wondering.
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Bummer, thats just not right.... unless everywhere was the top 5 schools in the country.
 
pcguy2 said:
Bummer, thats just not right.... unless everywhere was the top 5 schools in the country.
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nah i applied to pretty average schools
 
MEG@COOL said:
I got rejected everywhere with a 3.8 and 32R. All other aspects of my application were fine too if you are wondering.
Click to expand...

Your stats are slightly above average, but a lot also depends on your personal statement and interviews. I think we devoted a whole other thread to discussing your application and the consensus was that if you can improve your personal statement and tone down your obvious disdain for the lowly doctors who interview you, you'd have a good shot.

But back to the OP, 3.5/30 is by no means a safe bet. Statistically, it's about a 50% chance.
 
gotmeds? said:
Your stats are slightly above average, but a lot also depends on your personal statement and interviews. I think we devoted a whole other thread to discussing your application and the consensus was that if you can improve your personal statement and tone down your obvious disdain for the lowly doctors who interview you, you'd have a good shot.

But back to the OP, 3.5/30 is by no means a safe bet. Statistically, it's about a 50% chance.
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It was also mentioned that the essay was found to be "obtuse." It sounds like that was a nice way of telling this person that it was confusing and convoluted.

Also, 3.8/32 is average, but certainly nothing that schools would drool over.
 
baylormed said:
It was also mentioned that the essay was found to be "obtuse." It sounds like that was a nice way of telling this person that it was confusing and convoluted.

Also, 3.8/32 is average, but certainly nothing that schools would drool over.
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abstruse. its different
 
I personally believe that the bottom line is that there are no set of numbers and experience that guarantee anyone an acceptance. Every individual is judged seperately.
 
DrVanNostran said:
I personally believe that the bottom line is that there are no set of numbers and experience that guarantee anyone an acceptance. Every individual is judged seperately.
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unless of course you decide to team up with a running mate (like perhaps some spouses might)
 
CATallergy said:
which ironically is a much better fit for the other person's comment than obtuse
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thank you. finally found someone on these boards that can actually use reason in judging things instead of just ethos. are you sure youre premed? Your response was very atypical!
 
MEG@COOL said:
thank you. finally found someone on these boards that can actually use reason in judging things instead of just ethos. are you sure youre premed? Your response was very atypical!
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They're a premed. They just didn't read your other "I'm a genius and I hate it when dumb people's dumbness hurts me," thread where you really demonstrated your capacity for compassionate caring. Your 3.8 and 32R weren't enough to make up for your "endearing" personality and writing what must have been nonsense.
 
MEG@COOL said:
thank you. finally found someone on these boards that can actually use reason in judging things instead of just ethos. are you sure youre premed? Your response was very atypical!
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Obtuse/Abtruse, I couldn't remember which one you'd used in the other thread. Bottom line is, it wasn't a compliment.
 
zipmedic said:
They're a premed. They just didn't read your other "I'm a genius and I hate it when dumb people's dumbness hurts me," thread where you really demonstrated your capacity for compassionate caring. Your 3.8 and 32R weren't enough to make up for your "endearing" personality and writing what must have been nonsense.
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Remember when you said in the other thread though "Meg@cool you actually are a genius and I am inferior to you. Sorry for being such an idiot."
 
MEG@COOL said:
Remember when you said in the other thread though "Meg@cool you actually are a genius and I am inferior to you. Sorry for being such an idiot."
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Hey, I used that tactic when I was six. Well done. Nostalgia, and all that. I believe I was focusing on your almost mythical mediocrity.

-z
 
zipmedic said:
Hey, I used that tactic when I was six. Well done. Nostalgia, and all that.

-z
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I assume you turned 7 just several moments ago then......
 
MEG@COOL said:
I assume you turned 7 just several moments ago then......
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This is the best your unbridled genius can come up with? For someone who touts herself as some misunderstood prodigy, you haven't really got much to say.

-z
 
whats going on here...uhhhhh........:eek: :eek: :eek:

remember when we were just talking about if 3.5 and a 30 are a safe bet? i think that was funner...im probably way behind on this tustle buttttttttttt brady quinn falling to number 22 made my day...:rolleyes:
 
... tension. I'm enjoying this as much as everyone else but to get back to the topic at hand:

I'm no expert but I would think that the 3.8/30 may get your foot in the door, but the rest of your impressive package (questionable word choice? We're all big kids here!) will actually get you in.... Which is pretty much what everyone's been saying. :p
 
If all medschools want is book-smarts, there wouldn't be such an emphasis on research and volunteer clinic work. And make sure your essay dosen't blow either, becuase a horrible essay is a good enough excuse to not make it past secondary, but this shouldn't be an issue if you passed the essay portion of the MCAT with flying colors.

Oh, and make triple sure your name gets into the research,and you are not just washing beakers and Erlenmeyer flasks for the lab. This is what I gathered so far from people who acually know about the med school process (Professsors, admissions officers here, etc.)
 
That's pretty much me (3.51, though last 2 years are 3.8-ish) and while I don't have my MCAT scores yet, my practices had all been 10-10-10, so it's safe to assume my April 12th score will be close to 30 as well. The other aspects of my application are fine.

I graduated in May 2006, but as a precaution, this fall I'm going in for a year of science-focused coursework to make myself more competitive next year. I'm perfectly realistic about my chances, since I'm also an international applicant - I can easily picture myself not getting in this year.
 
MEG@COOL said:
I got rejected everywhere with a 3.8 and 32R. All other aspects of my application were fine too if you are wondering.
Click to expand...


On the contrary, I got in to a top 10 research school with a 3.6/27R. The rest of my app was definately above average and I think I interview well, so there you go. I hope this confuses you even more. Just goes to show you how screwed up this admissions stuff is.
 
DrMontana said:
On the contrary, I got in to a top 10 research school with a 3.6/27R. The rest of my app was definately above average and I think I interview well, so there you go. I hope this confuses you even more. Just goes to show you how screwed up this admissions stuff is.
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Get ready for the "Surely you must be a URM" comments. I would run if I were you.
 
I am a female, but I'm white and not POOR. sorry

Maybe lucky though :luck:
 
pcguy2 said:
3.5 and 30 are both not stand out. Here is what my interviewer told me when I asked him. There are 3 things you need.

1. GPA
2. MCAT
3. EC stuff (volunteer, clinical)

You need to stand out in one to have a chance. Having 3.5 and 30 (nothing to write home about) means that you need to stand out in EC. Otherwise your just way too average.
Click to expand...

There are many more areas of the application process that can sink you even if you are above average in these stats. The process is not wholly numerical. There are people with very high stats and decent ECs who got tanked due to interviews (especially coming across as arrogant, disinterested, not well thought out as to "why medicine?" etc. or just generally being too lukewarm), due to essays, due to LORs, due to academic infringement/criminal histories, due to applying too late, due to poor selection of schools, etc. There are folks with much better stats than those in this thread who have been denied admission. So yes, the average matriculant will have a 3.5/30ish stat, but that hardly makes it a "safe bet". Just because odds are good when you roll the dice doesn't mean you won't crap out.
 
I have worked very loosely with our admission committee and, at least at my school, what usually will sink someone who got the interview (the GPA/MCAT is what mainly dictates an interview offer...from then on everyone is on *nearly* a level playing field) is not knowing or at least not implying they like and agree with the mission statement of our school. All schools have a mission statement and obviously that school wants someone who fits into the respective mission. Obviously, as already mentioned, the other key sinkers are poor interview skills, not convincing enough evidence that you know what a doctor does and you are sure thats what you want to do, and simply a less than likable attitude/personality that can be attained in a 30 min interview.

So..... read read read the schools webpage and get a grasp on what it is they are looking for in a student (if you get a chance, ask one of the current med students... they should know as well), make sure you have done sufficient enough volunteering so that you can tell a story and tie that into why you want to be a doctor without a doubt (for some that might be 10 years worth for others it might be a few months), dont move around or make funny noises during the interview (honestly, some chairs squeak on purpose to see how much you are moving around), and lastly be likable and come across as someone that is a team player and plays well with others... leave the room so that the interviewer is thinking man I wouldnt mind hanging with that guy (or girl).


Good luck...

EDIT: And FYI down the road the same applies for residency application. Numbers are part of it, but at the end of the day they want someone who plays well with everyone and will not be a thorn in the programs side. A rural FP program is probably not going to take the guy born/raised/educated in inner city NYC and vice versa.... or at least, you should have some convincing information as to why the life change you are seeking.
 
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