PhD/PsyD Is it a mistake to reject an offer from a PhD program?

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Hello all,

I got into a PhD clinical psych program, and was excited to start. However, the program is not fully funded, although they did offer tuition remission. After remission the tuition comes to $121,000. Speaking with grad students it seems most of them fund that via loans. I'm familiar with why this is frequently burdensome to psych grads. It was indicated that a few other students work outside to program to fund themselves (which seems like a bad idea). And of course, this is all to saying nothing of the living expenses I would accrue. Because of that, I'm strongly (but frustratingly) leaning towards a no. I've tried to find alternative means of financial support, but nothing reliable has panned out.

But I have been getting getting a lot of "Follow your heart!" or "Do what you love!" advice, even from some people in the field. As much as I think that flies in the face of the economic realities, it makes me doubt my own instincts. Am I was off base here to walk away? Maybe it seems obvious, but I can't help but seek out a gut check. It's an APA accredited program, and on Long Island, NY. (Is it always appropriate to name names here? It's Hofstra. I can delete that if I shouldn't have mentioned it).

I'd be disappointed given the time spent working to get in, but I don't think the decade of $1,300 monthly payments leaves much to be desired. Also, I'm 29 and not too interested in taking this merry-go-round again for another year; frankly, I'd like to get off. Thanks, everyone.

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Tuition alone is 121k over the course of the program?!? How much more in loans to cover living expenses. Even with the tuition alone, that's twice the max I recommend that grad students take out over the course of grad school.
 
There is a thread a couple of posts down titled "Deciding on offer to accept." There is a wealth of content on there where some of the most senior/knowledgable contributors on this forum weigh in on the cons (zero pros, by the way) of accumulating debt in a graduate program. I'm sure you'll be able to make an informed, conscious decision after reading the detailed feedback from the thread.
 
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Is this your only offer? Are you still waiting to hear from other programs?
 
Is this your only offer? Are you still waiting to hear from other programs?
That's basically inconsequential. $121,000 in debt from tuition alone after remission, but before accruing interest and living expenses, is untenable. It should be a "no, but reapply next year." If OP is qualified enough to get into this program, another year of experience (e.g. more research, pubs, presentation, etc.) and applying more broadly with good LORs and personal statements should yield an offer from at least one fully-funded program.

It sucks to defer gratifying your dream for a year, but doing so is the kind of common sense, rigorous skepticism, and discipline necessary to succeed in doctoral programs.
 
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Is this your only offer? Are you still waiting to hear from other programs?

Interviewed three places, just missed out on the other two. This is my only offer.

There is a thread a couple of posts down titled "Deciding on offer to accept." There is a wealth of content on there where some of the most senior/knowledgable contributors on this forum weigh in on the cons (zero pros, by the way) of accumulating debt in a graduate program. I'm sure you'll be able to make an informed, conscious decision after reading the detailed feedback from the thread.

You're absolutely right. I would have relied on that except for some of the feedback was about program perception and quality of PsyD programs (wasn't too sure if that might be some influence in the responses). But again, it's also a gut check on my part. Apologies for cluttering the board. This decision has been substantially more difficult than I was expecting.

Tuition alone is 121k over the course of the program?!? How much more in loans to cover living expenses. Even with the tuition alone, that's twice the max I recommend that grad students take out over the course of grad school.

Average cost of living in this part of Long Island ain't cheap (even in some of the cheap parts). As a base, I was looking at loans without living expenses. And if that seems crazy... well, that's an answer in and of itself.
 
Yeah, 4-5 years of living expenses in a high cost of living area, plus the tuition amount, that's a huge debt burden. At that point, you're either locked in to a 10 year repayment plan that exists at the whim of a fickle and ever-changing congress, or your loan payments eat up over half of your net salary.
 
Wait..... $121,000 is AFTER tuition remission? As WisNeuro said, how much more for living expenses? Folow your dreams but don't make bad decisions to get there.

If you are interested in the field, spend time building research experience and apply again and be geographically flexible.
 
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Hello all,

I got into a PhD clinical psych program, and was excited to start. However, the program is not fully funded, although they did offer tuition remission. After remission the tuition comes to $121,000. Speaking with grad students it seems most of them fund that via loans. I'm familiar with why this is frequently burdensome to psych grads. It was indicated that a few other students work outside to program to fund themselves (which seems like a bad idea). And of course, this is all to saying nothing of the living expenses I would accrue. Because of that, I'm strongly (but frustratingly) leaning towards a no. I've tried to find alternative means of financial support, but nothing reliable has panned out.

But I have been getting getting a lot of "Follow your heart!" or "Do what you love!" advice, even from some people in the field. As much as I think that flies in the face of the economic realities, it makes me doubt my own instincts. Am I was off base here to walk away? Maybe it seems obvious, but I can't help but seek out a gut check. It's an APA accredited program, and on Long Island, NY. (Is it always appropriate to name names here? It's Hofstra. I can delete that if I shouldn't have mentioned it).

I'd be disappointed given the time spent working to get in, but I don't think the decade of $1,300 monthly payments leaves much to be desired. Also, I'm 29 and not too interested in taking this merry-go-round again for another year; frankly, I'd like to get off. Thanks, everyone.

I think you have a good gut feeling about the economic burden of the program, and it's a shame you're getting a lot of contradictory advice. The same thing happened to me the first time I applied to grad school. I got into a PhD program that I really loved but I wouldn't be funded. I was lucky that I had a mentor that gave me good advice and warned me about the debt. When I crunched the numbers, I decided I couldn't afford to do it. It was the only offer I had that year and I remember feeling the same way that you do about how much time and effort I had already put into it, and the uncertainty of reapplying. It was really hard to turn down but I worked as a lab manager, got more experience, reapplied and got into a really good program with full funding two years later.
 
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$121,000 "after tuition remission" sounds like complete scam territory to me. As in, they fluff up tuition 200% and everyone gets a $100k "tuition remission." Marketing ploy. Speaks to the program itself probably being a scam.
 
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$121,000 "after tuition remission" sounds like complete scam territory to me. As in, they fluff up tuition 200% and everyone gets a $100k "tuition remission." Marketing ploy. Speaks to the program itself probably being a scam.

I mean, it's Hofstra. I don't think they have any malicious intent. I just think it's a very expensive program, perhaps too expensive.
 
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Do what you love!" advice, even from some people in the field. As much as I think that flies in the face of the economic realities, it makes me doubt my own instincts.

It is you that has to repay the money.....
 
I think you have a good gut feeling about the economic burden of the program, and it's a shame you're getting a lot of contradictory advice. The same thing happened to me the first time I applied to grad school. I got into a PhD program that I really loved but I wouldn't be funded. I was lucky that I had a mentor that gave me good advice and warned me about the debt. When I crunched the numbers, I decided I couldn't afford to do it. It was the only offer I had that year and I remember feeling the same way that you do about how much time and effort I had already put into it, and the uncertainty of reapplying. It was really hard to turn down but I worked as a lab manager, got more experience, reapplied and got into a really good program with full funding two years later.

I have a similar story to this...I have never regretted my decision to avoid debt and am very happy in my program. I agree with the simple statement above also that it is likely not your dream to be in debt.
 
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Hofstra was a school I really wanted to go to as the program is clinically-oriented. Given the lack of real funding, however, I don't think I would have been able to attend even if I was accepted.

My family has very modest roots, and my parents certainly didn't devote much of their adult lives to being financially responsible to pave the way for me...just to have me take on a significant amount of debt.

It's a shame because Hofstra is a good program and has really cool research and clinical opportunities. It is in a very expensive area so you would have to consider those costs as well. Personally, it would be an "easy" decision for me to make but I totally acknowledge that there are other factors that may be pulling you towards accepting.
 
I mean, it's Hofstra. I don't think they have any malicious intent. I just think it's a very expensive program, perhaps too expensive.
I looked it up and they are clear about their funding and cost on the web site. So definitely not scammy, I rescind that. I think "remission" is not the word you want to use--remission is the word people usually use when they mean complete tuition waiver. So it sounds weird to say "100k+ after tuition remission." The web site says it has scholarships and awards, etc., but is clear it is not fully funded and is in an expensive area.
Their C-20 data suggests they were not matching well a few years ago, but swung up in the past two years. Low attrition. It's expensive as heck but if you're going to go to an non-completely-funded program they seem to have better outcomes than most of those.
 
Tuition remission can be the correct word here, as tuition remission per several sites does not have to mean 100% waiver.
 
Do not care what your google search gave you, I am saying that MANY schools call it tuition remission when it is not in fact a complete waiver and applicants need to be aware of this. That is a fact, so even if MCparent says no it should not be called that..schools will still do it. NYU, UDM, and several other school refer to it as tuition remission. I am merely providing a fact.

Tuition Remission
is a benefit that waives 50% to 100% of tuition taken by full-time, regular employees, their spouses or registered domestic partners, and their dependent children.
 
Do not care what your google search gave you, I am saying that MANY schools call it tuition remission when it is not in fact a complete waiver and applicants need to be aware of this.

Those of us who attended funded programs with full tuition remission, and mostly work with others who experienced the same, are well within our rights to give the side-eye to these more liberal uses of the term. "$121K after tuition remission" deserves the ridicule.
 
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Those of us who attended funded programs with full tuition remission, and mostly work with others who experienced the same, are well within our rights to give the side-eye to these more liberal uses of the term. "$121K after tuition remission" deserves the ridicule.
Even those of us who paid high tuition should ridicule that type of cheap marketing. It's like saying something is half off and the original price is just an outrageous markup. Used car salesman tactics.
 
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Tuition remission from state U that nullifies the cost of tuition and gives a stipend is not the same as Bobs House of Psychology and HVAC Repair giving a coupon for 5% off your first 100k in tuition. So, no, minor awards are not tuition remission. The program in question on their web site does not call it tuition remission, they just say scholarships (which is fine). It wasn't even an error for OP to call it that; the wording is just why people thought it was bizarre.

Your reactions to my posts are both confusing and amusing. Confamusing?
 
Tuition remission from state U that nullifies the cost of tuition and gives a stipend is not the same as Bobs House of Psychology and HVAC Repair giving a coupon for 5% off your first 100k in tuition. So, no, minor awards are not tuition remission. The program in question on their web site does not call it tuition remission, they just say scholarships (which is fine). It wasn't even an error for OP to call it that; the wording is just why people thought it was bizarre.

Your reactions to my posts are both confusing and amusing. Confamusing?
I'd argue they aren't confusing at all based on what @LauraH8214 wrote in the now-locked "Examples of bad Research" thread.

E.g.
Pay no mind to MCparent, who is known for being dramatic and taking things out of context.
 
Those of us who attended funded programs with full tuition remission, and mostly work with others who experienced the same, are well within our rights to give the side-eye to these more liberal uses of the term. "$121K after tuition remission" deserves the ridicule.

No one would dare take away this fun groups right to start a rumble. Again...merely stating that schools do it and did not say it was right to do so, but I get it...you guys love conflict so go ahead....What is entertaining to me is the fun you guys have flexing your egos. Please read my message and let me know how I said it was correct or an accurate use of the term. Sorry but in the real world people do not always play by the rules in this club house. I'll take my dollies and head home now and let you guys have a fun afternoon with this message. Give you something to do ;-)
 
This is something that I've been thinking about a lot (tuition remission, not spandex leotards). I just started my first "real" psychologist job. I had the best possible circumstances--I attended a funded program in a fairly low-cost area and didn't have to take out any student loans for undergrad or grad school. My new job pays a pretty decent salary that's well above median income for my current location. Yet, I am still struggling to achieve financial stability after years of moving cross-country multiple times, relative job instability for my partner (due to the constant moving), and living off of meager trainee salaries in very expensive metropolitan areas that I had to live in to get the training that I needed. I can't even imagine what it's like for someone who had to pay tuition or take out loans on top of that.
 
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Hello all,

I got into a PhD clinical psych program, and was excited to start. However, the program is not fully funded, although they did offer tuition remission. After remission the tuition comes to $121,000. Speaking with grad students it seems most of them fund that via loans. I'm familiar with why this is frequently burdensome to psych grads. It was indicated that a few other students work outside to program to fund themselves (which seems like a bad idea). And of course, this is all to saying nothing of the living expenses I would accrue. Because of that, I'm strongly (but frustratingly) leaning towards a no. I've tried to find alternative means of financial support, but nothing reliable has panned out.

But I have been getting getting a lot of "Follow your heart!" or "Do what you love!" advice, even from some people in the field. As much as I think that flies in the face of the economic realities, it makes me doubt my own instincts. Am I was off base here to walk away? Maybe it seems obvious, but I can't help but seek out a gut check. It's an APA accredited program, and on Long Island, NY. (Is it always appropriate to name names here? It's Hofstra. I can delete that if I shouldn't have mentioned it).

I'd be disappointed given the time spent working to get in, but I don't think the decade of $1,300 monthly payments leaves much to be desired. Also, I'm 29 and not too interested in taking this merry-go-round again for another year; frankly, I'd like to get off. Thanks, everyone.

Totally responsible if you to take a step back and look at the future financial mess this could afford.
If you didn't take this offer, what would you do? Are you in the mental health field already at the masters level?

29 is not "old" and neither is 30 if you apply again next year-- so please don't base your age at time of admission into your decision. Graduating in your mid to late 30s still gives you 35-40 years of underpaid, undervalued work
 
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I have seen a small handful of PhD applicants decline initial offers and re-apply in the next cycle. Not only would it allow you to find a more financially feasible option, but with an added year's experience, publications, etc. you could also get into a stronger program. 121k is way too much for a psychologist to take in grad school debt.


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